Dark Souls PC port to use GFWL

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Unfortunately, im not kidding.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/11/prepare-for-gfwl-in-dark-souls-prepare-to-die/

Needless to say something like this happening now feels very much like being shot in the elbow, because seriously i would rather give up my right arm than put up with GfWL in a game thats so online-reliant.

Heres a new petition that may or may not get rid of it.

http://www.change.org/petitions/namco-bandai-and-from-software-release-dark-souls-pc-edition-without-games-for-windows-live#

EDIT: As of midnight GMT, the petition has reached about 4000 signitures.

Why don't people like GFWL? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, I'm just not a PC gamer so I have no experience with it. Why do people hate it so much?

EDIT: Thanks for the explanations guys, I can see why Dark Souls fans would be pissed.

NoOoOoOoOoOoo.....Why can't GFWL just go and die already. I actually hate it even more than Origin.

Hazy992:
Why don't people like GFWL? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, I'm just not a PC gamer so I have no experience with it. Why do people hate it so much?

To summarise:

From the petition letter:
GFWL is unpopular, difficult to use, inconvenient, has terrible online support (a key feature in Dark Souls), and is downright unpleasant.

Given my past run ins with GfWL, i can back those claims up and im sure the 2800 people who have signed the petition as of this writing will agree with them too.

Not going to lie, I do find it massively funny (and kind of sad) that there's already another petition to get rid of GFWL, not to mention a ton of people who probably did sign the petition saying they won't buy the game anymore.

If you guys keep making petitions for every little thing Namco Bandai might start to rethink this whole thing.

I just yelled about it here. https://twitter.com/#!/AdamJensenSI/status/190198698918166530

GFWL is the worst thing in gaming since Custer's Revenge.

Hazy992:
Why don't people like GFWL? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, I'm just not a PC gamer so I have no experience with it. Why do people hate it so much?

I had to deal with it for awhile for Fallout 3 and Dawn of War 2 (w/o expansions) launched for PC... I lost money to it on a failed transaction to purchase FO3 Op Anchorage and had to deal with a bunch of tech support people to reauthorize my DLC purchase. Then it failed to download it properly, or run it without crashing.

Also, it caused a divide in the FO3 saves between regular saves and Windows Live enabled saves to account for Achievements, etc - incompatible with mods. I think the FO3 GOTY ED ditched Windows Live, unofficially, wisely, on Bethesda's part.

Dawn of War 2 was a less nightmarish experience, but it was a bummer to have to connect to GFWL to play and it was tightly linked to the multiplayer... Ranked matches were done through GFWL matchmaking and it was SLOOOOOOOOOW. Relic also stopped using it in the standalone expansions for DOW 2.

Basically, GFWL was a poorly optimized afterthought of a software bridge and networking platform that was an artifact of Windows Vista era thinking. Broken, DRM-y, slow, intrusive and ultimately dropped by the developers who embraced it.

Hope that explains the meat of people's grief with it without being a rant.

Hazy992:
Why don't people like GFWL? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, I'm just not a PC gamer so I have no experience with it. Why do people hate it so much?

That's why you don't understand.

GFWL is a massive pain in the ass just gives a terrible service for online play.

Example: Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition for the PC. It uses GFWL.

Let's say I want to play a match online. I will ignore the crappy netcode for now, since I am not sure that is the same issue.

It will take me at least 10 attempts to connect to someone to initiate a game. Every time I am able to connect to someone, it just drops an error on me, saying I am unable to connect. It's absolutely terrible that I have to go through this unnecessary effort just to play a game of street fighter. I have to do this EVERY TIME unless I fight the same people multiple times.

That french person with perfect ping? Oh no I can't join that game.

EDIT: Might as well add that I also purchased SSFIV:AE on STEAM. So there's STEAM, and then there's GFWL on top of it. It's like some doubly annoying issue.

This is a massive turn off for me. I regret purchasing Super Street Fighter IV on PC for this very reason.

There may be hope however, despite the online being a very nice feature, Dark Souls has a very adequate offline play regardless, right?

Please, From Software, please rethink this. Please don't do this because it is extremely irresponsible to the potential consumers petitioning for this. Please don't blow it From Software...

I've actually used the GFWL platform a couple times on a couple different games, I can honestly say I am not a big fan of it and I'm one of the most forgiving people you'll meet.

It's just bad, I got disconnected a ton of times on every game and some games (The Club) wouldn't even run unless I downloaded a fan-made patch.

and while you're at it microsoft, why not release new titles in Games on demand, or at least make them cheaper than the physical copy of the same game.

Taken straight from youtube:
"Games for Windows live?!?! WTF are they thinking? It's almost like they trolling PC players or alternatively just don't want the game's pc version to actually sell. Maybe it's a plot to rationalise a complete abandonment of pc platform in near future..."

Looks like the stupid is already coming.

GFWL is certainly annoying, but I'll still definitely be picking it up on PC. The new content looks rad, even if it might end up as DLC on consoles anyway. Think you guys are overreacting a bit honestly, certainly GFWL is a nuisance, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker.

It's a lot easier for FROM to incorporate the online components of Dark Souls into GFWL which is very similar in framework to XBL, rather than Steam which would require them to do a total overhaul of the system.

HAHA this a joke right? I mean no one would listen to what pc players want and then tie it to something gamers don't like. I mean you'd have to be an idiot to even suggest that right?... Right?

I'm calling that if port doesn't sell they will blame it on priacy and not gfwl.

I'm probably going to buy it either way, but I understand if some people feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever over cracking that piece of useless garbage software out of their game.

Also http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/8365-Games-for-Windows-FAIL

As much as it sucks and I hate it, it will not influence my decision to buy this game. One needs to weight pros and cons. And GFWL is definitely not a big enough con to justify skipping this game. Unless it ends up being a bad port.

AlternatePFG:

It's a lot easier for FROM to incorporate the online components of Dark Souls into GFWL which is very similar in framework to XBL, rather than Steam which would require them to do a total overhaul of the system.

Now, I don't know anything about the framework systems of the online component, and this may make me sound like something of an idiot for asking, but doesn't Steam link up with PSN now? Wouldn't that mean that they could potentially use the PSN code and just make some modifications to make it work for steam?

*dives into a foxhole in fear*

Captcha: geez louise... that's a great sign.

SargentToughie:
Now, I don't know anything about the framework systems of the online component, and this may make me sound like something of an idiot for asking, but doesn't Steam link up with PSN now? Wouldn't that mean that they could potentially use the PSN code and just make some modifications to make it work for steam?

*dives into a foxhole in fear*

Captcha: geez louise... that's a great sign.

Valve kind of linked PSN with Steam for Portal 2, but they never really did anything else with it. It had a friends system and cross platform play, but I'm not really sure if they didn't just do that to show that they can. Not to mention, Portal 2's Steam compatibility was something setup by Valve and Sony, so I doubt FROM would have access to the code they used. Whether or not it actually could work like that I have no idea, but I still assume porting over the code from XBL would be much easier for them in the long run.

Realistic expectations people, FROM has ported like 1 other game to the PC before.

Adam Jensen:
As much as it sucks and I hate it, it will not influence my decision to buy this game. One needs to weight pros and cons. And GFWL is definitely not a big enough con to justify skipping this game. Unless it ends up being a bad port.

Thats the thing, if it wasnt for GfWL i would have bought it regardless of the quality of the port. I bought DMC3 on PC, and despite having no mouse functionality at all i still managed to beat the majority of what the game had to offer.

But now i need to look to something else to justify the purchase, and the extra content does not meet that 'something else' that im looking for. Heres genuinely hoping the porting doesnt suck now.

gigastar:

Thats the thing, if it wasnt for GfWL i would have bought it regardless of the quality of the port. I bought DMC3 on PC, and despite having no mouse functionality at all i still managed to beat the majority of what the game had to offer.

But now i need to look to something else to justify the purchase, and the extra content does not meet that 'something else' that im looking for. Heres genuinely hoping the porting doesnt suck now.

You could just wait for the price to go down.

"I don't believe this product is worth me paying full price for, because of GFWL, however, I will pay for it at a certain fraction of that."

Everybody wins that way, and Namco can't really point the finger and blame piracy when they see that they actually get units sold once it actually goes on sale. Maybe it will teach them not to go with a format that PC gamers absolutely hate.

God damn it! It's not a complete deal breaker but it definitely makes the whole thing far less awesome and reduces how much I'm willing to pay for it. If its a bad port as well I might end up not buying it, which would be a shame. GFWL is a pain in the ass to deal with, it's buggy as hell and useless for online play.

And I bet that if this ends up flopping they are going to blame it on piracy.

SargentToughie:

gigastar:

Thats the thing, if it wasnt for GfWL i would have bought it regardless of the quality of the port. I bought DMC3 on PC, and despite having no mouse functionality at all i still managed to beat the majority of what the game had to offer.

But now i need to look to something else to justify the purchase, and the extra content does not meet that 'something else' that im looking for. Heres genuinely hoping the porting doesnt suck now.

You could just wait for the price to go down.

"I don't believe this product is worth me paying full price for, because of GFWL, however, I will pay for it at a certain fraction of that."

Everybody wins that way, and Namco can't really point the finger and blame piracy when they see that they actually get units sold once it actually goes on sale. Maybe it will teach them not to go with a format that PC gamers absolutely hate.

Thats whats really eating me worse than those parasite things i picked up in the Demon Ruins.

I want a PC version because i signed that petition for the porting to be done, that and unless Namco hears the strife over the GfWL, this port will release pretty much at the hieght of summer, where my boredom levels peak so badly that Lord of the Rings: Conquest begins to look like a good way to kill time.

Ill have to plan some timed game buying in an attempt to get around this.

gigastar:

Thats whats really eating me worse than those parasite things i picked up in the Demon Ruins.

I want a PC version because i signed that petition for the porting to be done, that and unless Namco hears the strife over the GfWL, this port will release pretty much at the hieght of summer, where my boredom levels peak so badly that Lord of the Rings: Conquest begins to look like a good way to kill time.

Ill have to plan some timed game buying in an attempt to get around this.

Oh god... LotR: Conquest is NEVER a good way to kill time, ever.

Why not do what I plan on doing and break out an older console? I'm going back to my happy PS2 days, where we got full games for our money and didn't have to worry about being milked by devs... Okami, KH1 and 2... Dragon Quest 8...

Seriously, Gen 6 movement, let's make it a real thing.

I can't say it'd bother me much, since I pre-ordered the PS3 version. The only thing I'm concerned about is getting fucked over for this new content. I'm more concerned about whether or not us console playing early adopters are going to get that content or not. And if we do get it, how much more are we going to end up having to shell out just to get it?

SargentToughie:

gigastar:

Thats whats really eating me worse than those parasite things i picked up in the Demon Ruins.

I want a PC version because i signed that petition for the porting to be done, that and unless Namco hears the strife over the GfWL, this port will release pretty much at the hieght of summer, where my boredom levels peak so badly that Lord of the Rings: Conquest begins to look like a good way to kill time.

Ill have to plan some timed game buying in an attempt to get around this.

Oh god... LotR: Conquest is NEVER a good way to kill time, ever.

Why not do what I plan on doing and break out an older console? I'm going back to my happy PS2 days, where we got full games for our money and didn't have to worry about being milked by devs... Okami, KH1 and 2... Dragon Quest 8...

Seriously, Gen 6 movement, let's make it a real thing.

Not a bad thought, and my PS3 is backwards compatible. However theres few PS2 games left that i want to track down that i havent already got or have been put into HD collections that i own. Hell in some cases i have both classic and HD's.

I took delivery of Devil May Cry HD this morning.
I bought Rayman 3 HD last week, also got its PS2 version.
I own Okami and God Hand as PS2 games.
I own Metal Gear Solid 1, 2 and 3 in thier original formats.
I have Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2.
I have the Jak & Daxter trilogy both PS2 and thier HD rerelease.
I certainly own Star Wars: Battlefront, and its sequel.
I own both of the good Destroy All Humans games. The second sequel and spinoff never happened.

If you got anything else to contribute im all eyes to consider it.

ExiusXavarus:
I can't say it'd bother me much, since I pre-ordered the PS3 version. The only thing I'm concerned about is getting fucked over for this new content. I'm more concerned about whether or not us console playing early adopters are going to get that content or not. And if we do get it, how much more are we going to end up having to shell out just to get it?

Isn't it just a few new bosses?

OT: I'll admit, I laughed hard. A friend of mine who played many hours on the PS3 version was so excited when he heard of the port, and he really, really hates GFLW..

SargentToughie:

gigastar:

Thats whats really eating me worse than those parasite things i picked up in the Demon Ruins.

I want a PC version because i signed that petition for the porting to be done, that and unless Namco hears the strife over the GfWL, this port will release pretty much at the hieght of summer, where my boredom levels peak so badly that Lord of the Rings: Conquest begins to look like a good way to kill time.

Ill have to plan some timed game buying in an attempt to get around this.

Oh god... LotR: Conquest is NEVER a good way to kill time, ever.

Why not do what I plan on doing and break out an older console? I'm going back to my happy PS2 days, where we got full games for our money and didn't have to worry about being milked by devs... Okami, KH1 and 2... Dragon Quest 8...

Seriously, Gen 6 movement, let's make it a real thing.

You're kidding right? LOTR Conquest was fucking fun. Only if you were doing campaign missions with a lot of grunts to kill. Instant matches with warriors was fucking annoying due to nonstop blocking.

GFWL is an abomination...... like really I would prefer Origin over GFWL

DementedSheep:
And I bet that if this ends up flopping they are going to blame it on piracy.

Of course. What else are publishers, distributors and developers going to do? Admit they made fucking idiotic choices because they didn't bother to check the actual market they're trying to sell to?

GfWL isn't a deal breaker for me but it has dropped Dark Souls from a Must Buy to a "Wait and See How Badly GfWL Fucks Things Up" deal.

imahobbit4062:

ExiusXavarus:
I can't say it'd bother me much, since I pre-ordered the PS3 version. The only thing I'm concerned about is getting fucked over for this new content. I'm more concerned about whether or not us console playing early adopters are going to get that content or not. And if we do get it, how much more are we going to end up having to shell out just to get it?

Isn't it just a few new bosses?

OT: I'll admit, I laughed hard. A friend of mine who played many hours on the PS3 version was so excited when he heard of the port, and he really, really hates GFLW..

Something about an entirely new episode. Artorias of the Abyss, something along that line. And whole new area and a few new bosses. I saw a 3D render of a creature that is in the game's artbook, but never made it into the final copy of the game. And if they're going to take the content that they ripped from the final copy of the game, and turn it into additional content for the PC port, I'm going to feel a bit cheated. And I can probably already guess where the new area's at, too.

gigastar:

Not a bad thought, and my PS3 is backwards compatible. However theres few PS2 games left that i want to track down that i havent already got or have been put into HD collections that i own. Hell in some cases i have both classic and HD's.

I took delivery of Devil May Cry HD this morning.
I bought Rayman 3 HD last week, also got its PS2 version.
I own Okami and God Hand as PS2 games.
I own Metal Gear Solid 1, 2 and 3 in thier original formats.
I have Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2.
I have the Jak & Daxter trilogy both PS2 and thier HD rerelease.
I certainly own Star Wars: Battlefront, and its sequel.
I own both of the good Destroy All Humans games. The second sequel and spinoff never happened.

If you got anything else to contribute im all eyes to consider it.

Dragon Quest 8 is an absolutely phenomenal RPG, it basically reshaped my expectations of what a JRPG should be, and is the standard by which I've judged every other RPG since.

Tales of the abyss is also supposedly pretty kick-ass too, I plan on Amazon.com-ing it when I go Gen 6.

We're getting a bit off topic though, if you want me to, I could open up a thread to let other people in on the concept. Lemme know through PM.

SajuukKhar:
GFWL is an abomination...... like really I would prefer Origin over GFWL

Enjoy your zombie PC.

Lets not go overboard. Origin is worse than GFWL and you know it.

Gorilla Gunk:
Not going to lie, I do find it massively funny (and kind of sad) that there's already another petition to get rid of GFWL, not to mention a ton of people who probably did sign the petition saying they won't buy the game anymore.

If you guys keep making petitions for every little thing Namco Bandai might start to rethink this whole thing.

I doubt it, the PC port is probably pretty much finished by now.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I forgot to say: I DONT CARE, I AM PREORDERING THIS ANYWAY.

I signed that damn petition a few months back and said I would buy it, and I am going to stick to that. Preordering as soon as I can. If GFWL fucks shit up to bad I will crack the game.

And if anyone wants to guilt trip me on that, just fuck off already. Dont even bother.

ExiusXavarus:
I can't say it'd bother me much, since I pre-ordered the PS3 version. The only thing I'm concerned about is getting fucked over for this new content. I'm more concerned about whether or not us console playing early adopters are going to get that content or not. And if we do get it, how much more are we going to end up having to shell out just to get it?

If it was published by a cool company like CD Projekt and on a platform where the network owners don't have seizures over the idea of free content, you'd be good. (The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition ahoy!)

From what I've heard From Software are pretty cool... so that's a point in favour of console owners getting the extra content for free...

However, their distributor outside of Japan is Namco-Bandai, who are arseholes... plus certain console network owners despise the idea of free content. Those are points against it being free.

It all comes down to how much From Software wants to give the extra content to owners of the console versions and how big their balls are.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Enjoy your zombie PC.

Lets not go overboard. Origin is worse than GFWL and you know it.

GFWL prevented me from making save games in Fallout 3 50% of the time.

I can at least make save games on my Origin games consistently.

ExiusXavarus:

imahobbit4062:

ExiusXavarus:
I can't say it'd bother me much, since I pre-ordered the PS3 version. The only thing I'm concerned about is getting fucked over for this new content. I'm more concerned about whether or not us console playing early adopters are going to get that content or not. And if we do get it, how much more are we going to end up having to shell out just to get it?

Isn't it just a few new bosses?

OT: I'll admit, I laughed hard. A friend of mine who played many hours on the PS3 version was so excited when he heard of the port, and he really, really hates GFLW..

Something about an entirely new episode. Artorias of the Abyss, something along that line. And whole new area and a few new bosses. I saw a 3D render of a creature that is in the game's artbook, but never made it into the final copy of the game. And if they're going to take the content that they ripped from the final copy of the game, and turn it into additional content for the PC port, I'm going to feel a bit cheated. And I can probably already guess where the new area's at, too.

I see, while I got the Limited Edition for Christmas I only made it to the Taurus Boss, couldn't be bothered investing the time into it like I did Demon's Souls. I'll have to rectify that...

The thing that amazes me the most is that people begged for a PC port and now they refuse to buy it because of GFWL.

imahobbit4062:

SargentToughie:

gigastar:

Thats whats really eating me worse than those parasite things i picked up in the Demon Ruins.

I want a PC version because i signed that petition for the porting to be done, that and unless Namco hears the strife over the GfWL, this port will release pretty much at the hieght of summer, where my boredom levels peak so badly that Lord of the Rings: Conquest begins to look like a good way to kill time.

Ill have to plan some timed game buying in an attempt to get around this.

Oh god... LotR: Conquest is NEVER a good way to kill time, ever.

Why not do what I plan on doing and break out an older console? I'm going back to my happy PS2 days, where we got full games for our money and didn't have to worry about being milked by devs... Okami, KH1 and 2... Dragon Quest 8...

Seriously, Gen 6 movement, let's make it a real thing.

You're kidding right? LOTR Conquest was fucking fun. Only if you were doing campaign missions with a lot of grunts to kill. Instant matches with warriors was fucking annoying due to nonstop blocking.

Hes not and im not. LotR: Conquest is an inferior take on Star Wars: Battlefront due packing less variety than than a game 8 years its senior, butchering the general appeal of the LotR series and having some of the worst controls ive seen in a hack and slash for years.

The only reason i havent destroyed my copy to save someone else the misery of rebuying it and playing it is because its my current "Dwarf Bread" standard. The one game in my possesion that is shit enough to make the other slightly less than decent games i own look better for replay value, yet is not so shit that i feel it makes the overall quality of my collection suffer for its mere existence.

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