Imperials, as stated here before, while they have some questionable practices, they are also lesser of two evils. The Empire is better united against Thalmor. Having independent Skyrim wouldn't help.

AntiChri5:

Doclector:
Imperials. The ulfric is essentially a massive racist. Hmm, a leader who promises the natives a way out in desperate times, but who's really got his own horrifying, genocidal agenda.

Remind you of anyone?

I love how this happens in every "Stormcloaks vs Imperials" thread. People rush into the Hitler comparisons as if there aren't enough positives and negatives to both side already.

You realise that the Stormcloaks are actually less racist and bigoted then America during WW2, one of the main "good guys" of that conflict, right?

Yeah, I suspected Ulfric of the whole secret-Hitler thing on my first playthrough, but... it's just not there. Ulfric Stormcloak isn't evil, but he is misguided. I sided with the Imperials AFTER I heard the argument of both sides, and took time to think it over. What Ulfric Stormcloak fails to realize is that the diversity of the people of Tamriel is a thing of beauty, and that none of them can truly flourish without each other. An Orc army may do well, but they will only flourish with Bretons doing their accounting. An Argonian may be able to swim for an hour to reach an underwater grotto, but when he gets there, how will he survive without the magic that the High Elf taugh him?

And before someone runs to the classic argument that "Ulfric isn't racist, he just doesn't want the Empire running Skyrim" argument, I have two words: Grey. Quarter.

Imperials. Stormcloaks were a bunch of racist fucks.

The empire was only slightly better. What I wanted to do though was wreck BOTH sides and let Skyrim seperate into tiny independant republics.

I played an Argonian and the Stormcloaks just seemed a bit too racist for my tastes. I ended up joining the Imperials after killing Alduin. The thing is, the war seemed a lot colder than it did civil. After killing Ulfric I still can't get the encamped Stormcloaks to attack me without first murdering two thirds of the camp.

stormcloaks, but I don't think it'll actually affect who becomes High King, seeing that the Moot never occurs in-game it gives Bethesda the ability to say the country was exploded or something like before the moot meaning that your choice never mattered

Agow95:
stormcloaks, but I don't think it'll actually affect who becomes High King, seeing that the Moot never occurs in-game it gives Bethesda the ability to say the country was exploded or something like before the moot meaning that your choice never mattered

Na, the ascension of Tullius, Ulfirc, and The Dragonborn into first steps of godhood will most likely cause a dragonbreak and THAT is what will let them decide whatever they want.

Originally I sided with the Empire, but after some thinking I decided that the Stormcloaks are more in the right.

The Stormcloaks are fighting for the right to worship Talos as a Divine (Freedom of religion) and a sovereign Skyrim (The right to rule themselves.) and those both seem like better causes than the Empire's wanting to stay an empire. And I don't believe that the Empire would be any better at keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim than the Stormcloaks, so the Empire loses that advantage in my view. The one thing people like to bring up against the Stormcloaks is that they're xenophobic/racist which may be true in part, but 1) I haven't seen any first hand examples of this, just Nords (Not necessarily Stormcloaks) being racist and 2) It's not like the Empire would eradicate racism, it will always exist. If the Stormcloaks tried to forcibly expel all non-Nords from Skyrim they'd quickly find themselves with a floundering economy and a lack of the skills of the various other races.

Note: I haven't gotten very far in the main quests, side-quests are too distracting.

I just cant buy that the empire stands a chance vs the thalmor now. The Thalmor spies are legally allowed to do their spying in all of the empire controlled land. The Emporer might think hes preparing for a second war, but hes played right into the Thalmors hands and its obvious. Plus theres the events of the dark brotherhood storyline. The Empire is well and truly fucked IMO. We will likely see it fading to nothing over the next few games, which may be why the new Empire suddenly looks so much more roman.

I stood by the stormcloaks, I figured if the best I can do is just to save the people of skyrim from being executed for worshipping their god for a while, so be it.

You know honestly I'm waiting for the part where I tell the dragons to go kill all the tamriel or I'll kill them, but until than im with the stormcloaks because apparently something something something if they stop talos worship completely humanity will die. Like all of it. The tamriel banned talos because they want to remove the chance for humanity ever existing.

Or so the internet tells me.

Both sides are dicks honestly but I'd rather go with the side that doesn't let a bunch of racist socipaths have an embassy because they frighten them.

The tamriel causing trouble? I'll freeze time and stab them all in the ass.

Stormcloaks. The Imperials try to execute the Dovahkin at the beginning because of a clerical error. Why would you want to work with them? Also, they let the Thalmor ban the worship of holy Talos, the frickin' founder of the Empire, and they cooperate with the Thalmor's abduction and murder of Imperial citizens. An empire that can't protect it's own citizens is no Empire worthy of a proud Nord.

Imperials on the majority of my characters. The stormcloaks always came off...a bit too racist for me.

Kungfu_Teddybear:

Fiz_The_Toaster:
Ulfric can't even maintain his own damn city and he wants to liberate Skyrim from the Empire? Yeah no.

This argument always comes up in these threads. Windhelm is the oldest city in Skyrim, built way back in Ysgramor's time. It's highly possible that the city was a mess long before Ulfric was Jarl.

That's a silly argument, like blaming the state of crime in modern day London on Oliver Cromwell.

Jitters Caffeine:
The NCR. DON'T TREAD ON THE BEAR!!

oh wait...

[/quote]

I vote enclave

Kungfu_Teddybear:

95spartans:

You're 5 was supposed to be a 6 right?

6.would you call those cases good reasons though? ulfric started the stormcloaks while the nords could still worship Talos with the thalmor not watching. Ulfric then caused the thalmor to start observing skyrim in the Markath incident. Then he uses the worship of Talos as a rallying call while he himself caused part of the problem. When you take into account that he may have been controlled/been working with the thalmor (the people who want a war in skyrim) for some time things get more suspicious (there should be a note/book in the thalmor embassy).

Yeah the 5 was supposed to be a 6.

Fighting for your beliefs and to free your homeland from the oppression of a clearly evil faction? I think this is a perfectly good reason to start a war (well, there is no good reason for war, but I'm sure you get what I mean). The Thalmor have no business banning the worship of Talos just because they don't believe he should be worshipped as a God. That's their beliefs but they shouldn't be forcing their beliefs on others.

As for the Markarth incident and Ulfric being controlled by the Thalmor, I'm fairly certain the dossier in the Thalmor Embassy mentioned that Ulfric was not a sleeper agent and that he was actively fighting against the Dominion. I'm going to stand firmly by what I said about Ulfric and everyone else not having to worship their God in secret, so we're probably going to just have to agree to disagree on this also. They shouldn't have to have been doing that in the first place. They are being banned from worshipping their God in their homeland by the Thalmor, they have a pretty good reason to be pissed off.

On the topic of agreeing to disagree I want to go into a bit more detail about my earlier post about the duel between Ulfric and Torygg. I was trying to get to my bed last night when we were having this discussion so I didn't really write exactly what I wanted to. The duel between Ulfric and Torygg was for one thing only: To prove a point. Ulfric was there to prove that he was strong and Torygg was weak, I think that Ulfric still could have killed Torygg without the voice easily. But he was wanting to show how easily the High King, the defender of Skyrim and his people, could be killed. He was there to make a point that Torygg couldn't even defend himself so how could he defend Skyrim and that Ulfric would make a stronger king than Torygg (though that doesn't mean a better king).

It's a shame because Torygg actually greatly respected Ulfric. Talking to the court wizard about the day Ulfric killed Torygg you learn that Ulfric was present during the moot that declared Torygg the High King of Skyrim and that Ulfric was talking about things (to do with Skyrim's independence) just shy of treason and Torygg respected Ulfric for it. She then goes on to say that, although Torygg believed being part of the Empire would make Skyrim stronger and more prosperous, if Ulfric had simply asked Torygg to declare Skyrim's independence he might have done it. If that happened there would have been no need for the war in the first place.

The thing is I don't think the nords were really worshipping talos in secret, or a least what I'd call secret. The number of shrines and the low amount of restriction even after the thalmor started working in skyrim (seriously how have they failed to catch the preacher in whiterun? and the shrine in markarth is still their, with the candles lit AND A GROUP OF THALMOR IN THE CITY). This suggests the thalmor didn't even care what was happening until the Markarth incident which was caused by Ulfric.

A quote from the thalmor dossier via usep: "After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.
Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant."

This shows that Ulfic has been involved with the thalmor up to or including the markarth incident as he became uncooperative as a result of it. I don't believe he is currently working with them though. However the fact that he has ever worked with the thalmor is relevant as again one of his main rallying calls is ending their influence in skyrim. This doesn't mean he's working with them but it may show he's doing this for his own benefit without caring about others and that he is somewhat a hypocrite. One point I was trying to explain earlier was that ulfric may be doing these things for his own benefit (ie causing the markarth incident to gain support by restricting the worship of talos further). As you say the war could have been avoided if Ulfic asked Torygg. This would suggest to me ulfric killed him solely to take his position as high king despite Torygg possibly being a better ruler (although not a better warrior). Torygg didn't do an incredible job but he wasn't the type of person who would create the grey quarter, stop argonians living in the city or allow bandits to attack caravans and refugee's as long as they aren't nords. This indicates to me ulfric is a selfish man who started the war for his own benefit despite the hundreds of lives lost.

And another thing about ulfric's use of the voice against Torygg. If he was taught by the greybeards doesn't that mean he was taught the way of the voice (ie shouts should be used in the worship of the gods, and other pacifist teachings, the dragon born is an exception due to his purpose given by the gods)? Which means he he has betrayed/ignored the greybeards.

Niether. I didn't feel as though I had any real justification to join either side so I just contented myself with stealing all thier stuff.

At one point I thought about joining the rebellion just for the hell of it but first they wanted me to go off into the middle of nowhere and kill a specific ice wraith to prove myself. I decided they obviously didn't actually want any help seeing as how hey had decided to send me off on a boring quest for no real reason so I went back to doing interesting things.
The whole empire vs rebels thing was pretty badly presented and I never wanted to do it.

For the Stormcloaks!
True fact: Before they signed the White-Gold Concordat, the Imperials actually hit the Thalmor really hard. Why the emperor signed it just after things started getting good for them is beyong me.
Therefore, Stormcloaks! That and Ulfric appreciates your help a lot more than Tullius does.

JasonKaotic:
For the Stormcloaks!
True fact: Before they signed the White-Gold Concordat, the Imperials actually hit the Thalmor really hard. Why the emperor signed it just after things started getting good for them is beyong me.

Lets see
-Cyrodill was burning
-Most of the cities were partially destroyed
-The strongest legions were only at 50% strength
-The Thalmor's remaining numbers were unknown
-The Thalmor's lands were practically untouched

The Empire had lost most of its resources and people, while The Thalmor had a unknown number of troops left and perfect lands.

Furthermore the Empire didnt have enough troops to take The summerset Isles which is the only way to stop The thalmor

Stormcloaks. The Empire is in cahoots with ELVES. And since there are no decent dwarves in Tamriel...

I sided with the Imperials primarily because I did the main quest and Mage's College quests first, and I found out about the Aldmeri Dominion pulling Ulfric's strings, as well as the quality of their agents' character. I couldn't side with Ulfric, because to do so is to side with the Thalmor. That and the Jarls that support the Empire are all around better people than the Jarls that support Ulfric.

Oh yeah, Odavhing rampaging in Windhelm is a scream.

Anyone else have to reload a lot during the last battle due to your own soldiers attacking you because of collateral damage? Yeah, hitting a clustered group with Chain Lightning is hilarious.

Look everyone this is a universe where a huge army consists of about 20 dudes. To the people saying "Only the Empire can overthrow the Altmer Elves" to them I say BS A nord is a better fighter than an imperial so if you gather about 30 nords you can pretty much destroy any city/empire (remember cities consist of around 14 houses including shops). So if I gather about 30 of my hairy Nord buddies, I will be literally invincible and the elf empire will be powerless to stop meh.

So long live Ulfric, plus the empire has become the elves bitch or something, so I fail to see why anyone would pick those losers. Oh yeah and dont they try to kill you at the start of skyrim? Sorry but you are retarded if you think "hey the guy who condemned me to death a moment ago, will make a great ally I will follow him". Seriously you have not thought about the game realistically if you say Empire.

5. Because they no longer feel it's his empire after siding with the Thalmor. By agreeing to ban the worship of Talos, the man who founded the empire, they've pretty much spat in his face. Do you think Talos would agree with what the Empire did?

Talos would if you've read any of the lore he was a politicking asshole who usually betrayed his friends.

verdant monkai:
Look everyone this is a universe where a huge army consists of about 20 dudes. To the people saying "Only the Empire can overthrow the Altmer Elves" to them I say BS A nord is a better fighter than an imperial so if you gather about 30 nords you can pretty much destroy any city/empire (remember cities consist of around 14 houses including shops). So if I gather about 30 of my hairy Nord buddies, I will be literally invincible and the elf empire will be powerless to stop meh.

So long live Ulfric, plus the empire has become the elves bitch or something, so I fail to see why anyone would pick those losers. Oh yeah and dont they try to kill you at the start of skyrim? Sorry but you are retarded if you think "hey the guy who condemned me to death a moment ago, will make a great ally I will follow him". Seriously you have not thought about the game realistically if you say Empire.

The game is scaled down. A legion in cannon is actually a legion.

Imperials, because: 1. They have a better chance of beating the Dominion, and 2. The Stormcloaks are racist pricks.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

But to be honest I think the entire conflict was done in a very half assed way. Both questlines were extremely uninspired and very disappointing. Go to this base, kill a few people, go to that one, kill a few people, do that 10 times and bam, questline over. I felt like I was playing a first person WoW game sometimes.

Unfortunately, nearly everything in the game was done in a half-assed way. The entire game is repetitive as all hell.

Man, I don't know where to go for RPG's anymore. Feels like I've played all the good ones and the only ones left are bland and shallow. I guess Ishould play Baldur's Gate or PST again.

OT: Went with Imperials.

I don't know why people keep saying Ulfric is a sleeper agent. Didn't the document in question specifically state that he went rogue as soon as he got his ass out of prison? Sounds like he used the Thalmor to me..

Anyway I went Stormcloak. Whilst I loved the Legion in Morrowind and Oblivion, they just weren't the same in Skyrim. They're puppets to the Thalmor who will sit idly by whilst the Thalmor slowly infect Skyrim.

I also believe that if the Redguards can kick the Thalmor out of Hammerfall, which is closer to the Summerset Isles and less mountainous, than the Nords can definitely kick the Thalmor out of Skyrim. With the Thalmor being kicked out of Skyrim, the Nords can gather strength, perhaps form an alliance with the Redguards and the Argonians, and then proceed to take the fight back to the Thalmor.

Stormcloaks.

Ulric may be a dick with genocidal tendencies, he does have the guts to put up resistance to the Talmor. Now if only he'd have the brains to try and work together with the resistance groups in the other regions of Tamriel, they would've been able to deal a significant blow to those high elf bastards.

snagli:
Still, it looks pretty much the same, and that's good enough for me. I mean, look at General Tullius' armor, and compare it to Ulfric's saggy clothes.

The clothes make the army, and don't you forget it.

No matter how much armor Tullius wears, Ulfric could crush him with a dragon shout. :P

Instant K4rma:
Stormcloaks for me. As much as I love the Legion, the government can't be telling people what gods to worship and what gods they can't. Even in Tamriel, separation of church and state/freedom of religion has to count for something, and I'll fight for that.

It was necessary for the Empire, though. Many imperials are Talos worshippers themselves, they just side with the Empire cause they know the Talos-outlawing was necessary, lest the entire Empire would be completely fucked.

Well Stormcloaks of course, something about rebellion has always tickled my fancy.

Stormcloaks.
I always liked the Empire, but this is not the Empire I knew from previous games, they just seem like bad impostors to me, I don't care for them. I think the Stormcloaks have the right to reclaim their own land and honour their traditions. Sure Ulfric might be a bit of a dick, and that's why I roleplay that my character tries to change his mind(And he should have some say in the stormcloaks by the end of the rebellion).

I supported the Imperials, because I was a High Elf and I was role-playing. Turns out the Thalmor are assholes and think they are superior to you. Even if you are the same race. Frankly it was tedious and I didn't really care for it. I doubt the Stormcloak side of things is any better, though.