endtherapture: Can someone explain this to me - I've seen peopl chatting about it but I can't see evidence for it in game or find any in depth explanations on the internet for it so I am just slightly confused.
Long story short in the Es unvierse there is a process called mantling. Mantling, in simple terms, causes people to become other people.
Mantling is the process that turned the Champion of Cyrodill, the player character from Oblivion, into the Sheogorath we meet in Skyrim, despite that the Champion COULD have been an Argonian female.
Mantling occurs when a person performs a act of mythic importance that the person before him did, in the Champion's case it was foring his own Staff of Madness and sitting on the throne of madness like sheograth.
At the beginning of the mortal world Akatosh had Lorkhan killed and Magnus observed from the safety of Atherius.
This same act was performed by Tiber Septim, ysmir wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus when Tiber created the third empire causing them to merge and become Talos.
the roles that they filled are known as -the general/Akatosh/tiber -The Rebel/Lorkhan/Ysmir -The Observer/ Magnus/Zurin
In skyrim's civil war we have -2 generals, Ulfric and tullius -2 rebels, Ulfirc agasint the Empire, and The Empire/Tullius againt the old nord beleifs -An Observer, the Dovahkiin
At the end of the Civil war a General, tullius or Ulfirc, kills who they see as a rebel, the other, while the dovahkiin watches and in turn eaither create a re-untied Empire or a new indipendant Skyrim empire.
That Tullius, Ulfric and The Dovahkiin preformed the same actions, in creating a new/recreating the old, empire, which are also the actions that created the mortal world and the third empire means they have taken the first steps into mantling Talos.
I would love to hear your theories about how the dwemer are going to un-merge their souls from a giant robot.
Also Blackreach is the mainbase of the falmer/where the falmer fought the Dwemer in the old days.
Since we know this is the type of game that can just make "any thing up" for a needed plot point...
Ok, so all of the Dwemer coming back..yea, that much isn't going to happen, but we could still get a large number back.
What are some in-game examples: A off shoot Dwemer group weary of Lord Kagrenac meddling with the Heart, having heard his 'The Calling' and knew of the impending doom;
(A) use an elders scroll to perform "X". The 'Hero' finds the scroll whom is able to read it (1) and untrap the Dwemer from "X" spell. or (2) and locate where the Dwemer went with said spell, and bring them back to current time.
(B) request a Daedric Prince to hide them in a plane/sphere. Largely un-meddled with, yet still trapped, the next 'Hero' convinces the Daedric Prince to finally release the Dwemer.
(C) create a stasis bubble freezing them in time. They had plan that their constructs release them in from status in X number of "normal" years, but due to a flaw in how their constructs "perceive" time, it would be nearly eons before they would be released. The 'Hero' is able figure out how to trigger the constructs to finally end the stasis bubble.
I would love to hear your theories about how the dwemer are going to un-merge their souls from a giant robot.
Also Blackreach is the mainbase of the falmer/where the falmer fought the Dwemer in the old days.
Since we know this is the type of game that can just make "any thing up" for a needed plot point...
Ok, so all of the Dwemer coming back..yea, that much isn't going to happen, but we could still get a large number back.
What are some in-game examples: A off shoot Dwemer group weary of Lord Kagrenac meddling with the Heart, having heard his 'The Calling' and knew of the impending doom;
(A) use an elders scroll to perform "X". The 'Hero' finds the scroll whom is able to read it and untrap the Dwemer from "X" spell.
(B) request a Daedric Prince to hide them in a plane/sphere. Largely un-meddled with, yet still trapped, the next 'Hero' convinces the Daedric Prince to finally release the Dwemer.
(C) create a stasis bubble freezing them in time. They had plan that their constructs release them in from status in X number of "normal" years, but due to a flaw in how their constructs "perceive" time, it would be nearly eons before they would be released. The 'Hero' is able figure out how to trigger the constructs to finally end the stasis bubble.
Can't the giant robot get destroyed in Daggerfall in one of the endings?
So, no doubt many of you have thought about the next possible location and plot for the Elder Scrolls series. While many people just list the most exciting location for the next game, I wish to discuss what realistically should be the next place we'll get to explore for several hours.
Obviously, from a plot perspective, the next game should cover the inevitable second Great War of the Aldmeri and the Empire - depending on which side you chose in the war, the Empire is either strengthened or Skyrim has become powerful in its own right. Reading in-game books about the war tells how Hammerfell managed, after its own rebellion from the White-Gold Concordant, to drive off the Aldmeri completely on its own - so, theoretically, Skyrim could now do the same. If the Empire is united with Skyrim in your game, then they gained a powerful ally - a whole new army, in their own right.
So, the Empire (or Skyrim and Hammerfell) will be a contender to take down the Aldmeri once and for all. But that plot alone isn't particularly interesting, though it is epic.
Now comes the theory part - I suggest the next game should see the return of the Dwemer. We know that the Dwemer had advanced technology that could read and record Elder Scrolls. They experimented heavily on them, it would seem. We also know that Alduin was shunted forward in time using an Elder Scroll, making him disappear without a trace from his own timeline. He then appeared in a far later timeline (a good 3 Eras later). Is it possible that the Dwemer, after an experiment gone wrong (or great hindsight) were shunted forward in time, explaining their sudden and collective disappearance? I know there's also a theory about Lorkhan's Heart, but this is my take.
So, if they were to end up suddenly in the present, I imagine the first thing they'd attempt is to take over with their advanced technology. And because they are elves, and must have a sense of superiority (hence the falmer), they would most likely side with the Aldmeri. Imagine the battles we'd have to take part in, with all that machinery! :D
Hopefully you enjoy reading, but the short of it is that since the Dwemer later moved and lived primarily in Hammerfell, and since that region is rebelling against the Aldmeri so strongly, the game should take place there.
Feel free to say your own ideas and theories. Silly ones, even.
Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.
Mandal0re: Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.
FYI Morrowind was wrong.
The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.
Furthermore in Morroinwd all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.
Mandal0re: Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.
FYI Morrowind was wrong.
The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.
Furthermore in Morroinwd all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.
Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.
Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.
Trust me the ENTIRE story of the ES series is told outside the games, and only hinted at in the games.
I doubt you know of the meta-story between the games about the towers that hold up the mortal world falling, most people dont.
Or that sithis, Lorkhan, Akatosh, and Talos are the same person.
endtherapture: Can someone explain this to me - I've seen peopl chatting about it but I can't see evidence for it in game or find any in depth explanations on the internet for it so I am just slightly confused.
Long story short in the Es unvierse there is a process called mantling. Mantling, in simple terms, causes people to become other people.
Mantling is the process that turned the Champion of Cyrodill, the player character from Oblivion, into the Sheogorath we meet in Skyrim, despite that the Champion COULD have been an Argonian female.
Mantling occurs when a person performs a act of mythic importance that the person before him did, in the Champion's case it was foring his own Staff of Madness and sitting on the throne of madness like sheograth.
At the beginning of the mortal world Akatosh had Lorkhan killed and Magnus observed from the safety of Atherius.
This same act was performed by Tiber Septim, ysmir wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus when Tiber created the third empire causing them to merge and become Talos.
the roles that they filled are known as -the general/Akatosh/tiber -The Rebel/Lorkhan/Ysmir -The Observer/ Magnus/Zurin
In skyrim's civil war we have -2 generals, Ulfric and tullius -2 rebels, Ulfirc agasint the Empire, and The Empire/Tullius againt the old nord beleifs -An Observer, the Dovahkiin
At the end of the Civil war a General, tullius or Ulfirc, kills who they see as a rebel, the other, while the dovahkiin watches and in turn eaither create a re-untied Empire or a new indipendant Skyrim empire.
That Tullius, Ulfric and The Dovahkiin preformed the same actions, in creating a new/recreating the old, empire, which are also the actions that created the mortal world and the third empire means they have taken the first steps into mantling Talos.
Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.
Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.
In the beginning of time there existed two "forces" -Stasis, who is named Anu -Change, who is named Padomey They existed in the void, a realm of pure nothing
Anu and Padomey met, and the meeting of stasis and change created the grey-maybe, were all other things exist.
The void is infinite in size, and the grey-maybe is inside the void, and is infinite in size. Inside the grey-maybe is Atherius, the realm of magic, infinite in size, inside Atherius is Oblivion, also infinite in size.
Anu and Padomey gave bodies to their souls, Anuiel and Sithis respectively.
Anuiel and Sithis then made their firstborn, the gods of time and space respectively, beings that represent everything is means to be stasis/change, these beings are called akatosh and Lorkhan respectively.
Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.
Trust me the ENTIRE story of the ES series is told outside the games, and only hinted at in the games.
I doubt you know of the meta-story between the games about the towers that hold up the mortal world falling, most people dont.
Or that sithis, Lorkhan, Akatosh, and Talos are the same person.
I've been an avid fan of the ES games since Morrowind and I've always consumed all the lore I could within the games although judging by your contributions to this thread I've barely scratched the surface. I love the ES lore although it really could be better presented, I'm thinking of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, far less interesting lore but much more clearly presented. Having said that what are your sources, it's obvious you've played ES games before Morrowind but as you yourself said most of the lore is outside of the games where are you getting your info? Not doubting it at all, just curious so I can go have a good 'ol read myself.
Volan: We also know that Alduin was shunted forward in time using an Elder Scroll, making him disappear without a trace from his own timeline.
Spoiler alert, thanks for that.
I do agree that about the Dwemer. I'm fascinated and curious about them, especially in Skyrim. What I'd like to see, in regards to your theory of the second war, is maybe the next addition loading your Skyrim save to keep your choices intact ala Mass Effect 2.
I've been an avid fan of the ES games since Morrowind and I've always consumed all the lore I could within the games although judging by your contributions to this thread I've barely scratched the surface. I love the ES lore although it really could be better presented, I'm thinking of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, far less interesting lore but much more clearly presented. Having said that what are your sources, it's obvious you've played ES games before Morrowind but as you yourself said most of the lore is outside of the games where are you getting your info? Not doubting it at all, just curious so I can go have a good 'ol read myself.
Most of it comes from a guy names Michael Kirkbride.
Kirkbride worked for Bethesda during Morrowind, being the man who basically wrote Morrowind, and left shortly before it finished.
However Kirkbride and the rest of Bethesda are still really good friends, and they frequently contract him to write new lore for the games. Kirkbride wrote Mankar Cameron's speech in Oblivion, and he wrote the Knights of the Nine DLC, amongst other things.
Kirkbride often has a insider look at what Bethesda is doing, and writes cryptic lore about when he knows, and he writes lore to fill in plot-holes that inveitably come up with series that go on for this long. Furthermore Bethesda has often taken lore he made on his own and put it in their games.
Its kinda an odd situation where they take things from him and he takes things them.
The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.
Furthermore in Morrowind all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.
I'm not 100% up in the "out of game lore".. nor do I get most of MK's random teasing riddles (and yes, in game Dweamer lore is only written theories by said in game scholars), but if it wasn't the Heart (as all in game lore/theories strongly suggest), then what was it?. Because the interview with the dev doesn't explain anything (unless I'm missing what you intended to link too).
Murmillos: I'm not 100% up in the "out of game lore".. nor do I get most of MK's random teasing riddles (and yes, in game Dweamer lore is only written theories by said in game scholars), but if it wasn't the Heart (as all in game lore/theories strongly suggest), then what was it?. Because the interview with the dev doesn't explain anything (unless I'm missing what you intended to link too).
Nothing "went wrong", in regards to their race disappearing, the Dwemer WANTED to be merged with Numidium.
the question we should be asking is not "what caused them to vanish" but "why didn't Numidium active and ascend"
Nothing "went wrong", in regards to their race disappearing, the Dwemer WANTED to be merged with Numidium.
the question we should be asking is not "what caused them to vanish" but "why didn't Numidium active and ascend"
The answer to THAT is unknown.
Right; makes sense. In game scholars would assume that something "went wrong" when a whole race just ups and goes, not realizing that was their intent in the first place; but the Heart was still the instrument for that to happen.
Even if 'all' Dwemer wanted to ascend/merge with Numidium, you could say that not all Dwemer could have agreed with Lord Kagrenac methods, feeling that his way was "false" and thus wish to resist his 'The Calling'.
Murmillos: Right; makes sense. In game scholars would assume that something "went wrong" when a whole race just ups and goes, not realizing that was their intent in the first place; but the Heart was still the instrument for that to happen.
Even if 'all' Dwemer wanted to ascend/merge with Numidium, you could say that not all Dwemer could have agreed with Lord Kagrenac methods, feeling that his way was "false" and thus wish to resist his 'The Calling'.
From the information we have, all the Dwemer, even the Rourken clan who so hated the idea of being allies with the Dunmer that they exiled themselves and moved to Hammerfell, wanted to go all Numidiumish.
Is it possible some didn't? I guess but the Dwemer, from all we have seen, were devoted to the cause.
Dwemmer returning is a great idea, I would love to play as one. Your theory is a great one by the way good thinking. As for me Skyrim was great but it was not alien looking enough for me I want the next game to be set in either VALENWOOD or BLACKMARSH, think how great they would be to adventure in.
Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.
In the beginning of time there existed two "forces" -Stasis, who is named Anu -Change, who is named Padomey They existed in the void, a realm of pure nothing
Anu and Padomey met, and the meeting of stasis and change created the grey-maybe, were all other things exist.
The void is infinite in size, and the grey-maybe is inside the void, and is infinite in size. Inside the grey-maybe is Atherius, the realm of magic, infinite in size, inside Atherius is Oblivion, also infinite in size.
Anu and Padomey gave bodies to their souls, Anuiel and Sithis respectively.
Anuiel and Sithis then made their firstborn, the gods of time and space respectively, beings that represent everything is means to be stasis/change, these beings are called akatosh and Lorkhan respectively.
I always assumed that Sithis was the void? So Sithis is really just the force of change in the universe?
That is a pretty good observation, actually. But the disintegrated remains of Dwemer in Morrowind beg to differ with your theory. Still, that would be interesting to see. But yeah, the next one will definitely take place either during the next war against the Thalmor or it's aftermath. Hopefully during, I'd love to cleave the smug grin off their friggin' faces. If it does, I suppose the Summerset Isles would be a possible location for the next game. They could pull a Daggerfall and let us go to another province at the same time too, which would be cool. Maybe we start in the other one and fight our way over to the Isles.
Did some digging thru some Morrowind related Dwemer fact finding quest:
uesp.net states the following:
Lore:Dwemer It appears that the Dwemer were inconclusive as to their opinion of using of the Heart. Some opposed its use, warning that massive side effects were likely,[4] while the majority of the Tonal Architects, including their chief, Kagrenac, and Bthuand Mzahnch (who wrote The Egg of Time which downplayed the risks of tampering with the Heart of Lorkhan) remained unconvinced.
Morrowind:Mystery_of_the_Dwarves "The Egg of Time" seems to be a refutation of the idea that linking to a divine source of power can be dangerous if interrupted. Perhaps the author was wrong, and this is what happened to the Dwarves.
You are right, it is unknown, but we do have a clearer picture. If the process was interrupted, or had perhaps went wrong - then they never did ascend to Numidium (or not in quantity enough to activate him) and most of them (souls) were lost in the process.
But as I previously questioned; if some were opposed to the idea of Lord Kagrenac use of the Heart, would they have tried to do something about it to prevent being dragged down the path he forged? Either by an Elder Scroll, Daedric Lord, higher Divine intervention, Dwemer implausible infinity machine...
You are right, it is unknown, but we do have a clearer picture. If the process was interrupted, or had perhaps went wrong - then they never did ascend to Numidium (or not in quantity enough to activate him) and most of them (souls) were lost in the process.
But as I previously questioned; if some were opposed to the idea of Lord Kagrenac use of the Heart, would they have tried to do something about it to prevent being dragged down the path he forged? Either by an Elder Scroll, Daedric Lord, higher Divine intervention, Dwemer implausible infinity machine...
It wasn't that the souls were lost, the fact that Numidium has its brass skin shows that they were applied correctly.
furthermore as far as we know all the Mer, with the exception of the Dunmer and Orismer hate the mortal realm. No matter the differences in culture the Mer simply hate the mortal world.
there is no known reason for any Dwemer to try to sabotage it, there is no known reason for any of the Daedra or Aedra to do so either.
there is no known reason for any Dwemer to try to sabotage it, there is no known reason for any of the Daedra or Aedra to do so either.
nor was I even remotely implying any of that either, but since you brought it up.
I'm not saying other Dwemer would willing sabotage (or attempt to enlist any outside help) Lord Kagrenac work, but just attempt to shield themselves from any action or cause-effect his work may entail - by use of the above suggestions {which I'm just using as mere speculation to answer YOUR previous question on ideas in how we would could get to see the Dwemer in future games}...
But speaking of sabotage... as much as you know about lore, and then to say "there is no known reason for any of the Daedra or Aedra to do so either" is some what laughable, because every single game tells you the Daedra love to meddle in the affairs of mortals -- thats reason enough. Now one entire race wants to ascend to godhood (and has a chance of finally achieving that goal) and you can clearly state that not one Daedric Lord has a mild interest in that fact, maybe just even enough to stop it?
Thank you for clarifying the Dwemer disappearance, then. Having never played Morrowind, I couldn't have known. Sorry if I seem ignorant of the story, however, may I alter my theory?
The Numidium must not have required the entire Dwemer race - considering that they were a studious bunch, and would surely have wanted to see the effects of this machine. Was it necessary to sacrifice themselves, when they had the Snow Elves as slaves as a befitting replacement? That Skeleton Man interview was also posted in 2006, and Skyrim seems to strongly hint at their possible return with in-game dialogue and books - so perhaps a writer found a loop hole since then, or maybe a discontinuity. I also remember reading a post someone said in which all different takes on historical events involving the Aedra, Deadra and the such-like can all happen simultaneously, making several different events possible. Throughout Skyrim the actual answer to their disappearance remains largely in dispute still, so perhaps there is another answer.
Anyway, my theory can still work if some of the Dwemer remained while the others were sacrificed. Perhaps they wished to escape that fate, or oversee their construction?
I guess the idea of fighting a steampunk war within an Arabian-style desert just seems too cool for me to completely dismiss. :D
ilovemyLunchbox: It can be about whatever it wants, I just want it to be HUGE. I'm looking forward to the day I get to walk all the way across Tamriel in one game. I'm looking for something the size of the TES2 except for not randomized. I'll wait ten years for it if need be. Let's do this.
Well they said they wanted to create a MMO next, and that would likely be all of Tamriel.
honestdiscussioner: Well they said they wanted to create a MMO next, and that would likely be all of Tamriel.
Actually Todd Howard himself said they have no plans to make a mutliplayer based game. The MMO thing was a rumor that literally no one in Bethesda or Zenimax has confirmed.
The Dwemer hated all other races besides themselves, and they planned to merge themselves with Numidium and move into un-creation, something they saw as the ultimate state of being.
Suggesting they merge slaves into a giant "god-machine" would probably not go over well.
Why is everyone talking about the dwemer, if there are loads of them walking around, it will wreak the air of mystery around them. Yagrum was a living dwemer and Kagranac was ghost of a dwemer, be content with that. Also, doing Arniel Ganes quest in the college of winterhold gives a bit of insight of what really happened to the dwemer.
I would like a DLC concerning the Falmer or Thalmor. Hell I like surprises!
TizzytheTormentor: Why is everyone talking about the dwemer, if there are loads of them walking around, it will wreak the air of mystery around them. Yagrum was a living dwemer and Kagranac was ghost of a dwemer, be content with that. Also, doing Arniel Ganes quest in the college of winterhold gives a bit of insight of what really happened to the dwemer.
TizzytheTormentor: Why is everyone talking about the dwemer, if there are loads of them walking around, it will wreak the air of mystery around them. Yagrum was a living dwemer and Kagranac was ghost of a dwemer, be content with that. Also, doing Arniel Ganes quest in the college of winterhold gives a bit of insight of what really happened to the dwemer.
That's a fair assumption. I imagine the Dwemer are to Tamriel what something like Atlantis is for us.
If not the Dwemer, then, most people are wanting some sort of face-off with the Aldmeri or political strife in Elsweyr.
So we're looking at some sort of future conflict, rather than a resurrection from the past, like almost all of TES games have done? Are there any interesting stories from Valenwood, Elsweyr, Hammerfell or even High Rock that hasn't been explored yet?
TizzytheTormentor: Why is everyone talking about the dwemer, if there are loads of them walking around, it will wreak the air of mystery around them. Yagrum was a living dwemer and Kagranac was ghost of a dwemer, be content with that. Also, doing Arniel Ganes quest in the college of winterhold gives a bit of insight of what really happened to the dwemer.
That's a fair assumption. I imagine the Dwemer are to Tamriel what something like Atlantis is for us.
If not the Dwemer, then, most people are wanting some sort of face-off with the Aldmeri or political strife in Elsweyr.
So we're looking at some sort of future conflict, rather than a resurrection from the past, like almost all of TES games have done? Are there any interesting stories from Valenwood, Elsweyr, Hammerfell or even High Rock that hasn't been explored yet?
Well, my previous comment in the first page is something I would like to see, the politics in morrowind were fascinating and getting everyone the acknowledge you as the Nerevarine was fun. I suppose I'm tired of the simple, kill bad guy and save world job. There weren't much interesting stories in skyrim but they made a great game out of that. I want to be involved in the politics, religions and hierarchy of a province. Nothing wrong with returning to hammerfell and highrock.
Long story short in the Es unvierse there is a process called mantling. Mantling, in simple terms, causes people to become other people.
Mantling is the process that turned the Champion of Cyrodill, the player character from Oblivion, into the Sheogorath we meet in Skyrim, despite that the Champion COULD have been an Argonian female.
Mantling occurs when a person performs a act of mythic importance that the person before him did, in the Champion's case it was foring his own Staff of Madness and sitting on the throne of madness like sheograth.
At the beginning of the mortal world Akatosh had Lorkhan killed and Magnus observed from the safety of Atherius.
This same act was performed by Tiber Septim, ysmir wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus when Tiber created the third empire causing them to merge and become Talos.
the roles that they filled are known as
-the general/Akatosh/tiber
-The Rebel/Lorkhan/Ysmir
-The Observer/ Magnus/Zurin
In skyrim's civil war we have
-2 generals, Ulfric and tullius
-2 rebels, Ulfirc agasint the Empire, and The Empire/Tullius againt the old nord beleifs
-An Observer, the Dovahkiin
At the end of the Civil war a General, tullius or Ulfirc, kills who they see as a rebel, the other, while the dovahkiin watches and in turn eaither create a re-untied Empire or a new indipendant Skyrim empire.
That Tullius, Ulfric and The Dovahkiin preformed the same actions, in creating a new/recreating the old, empire, which are also the actions that created the mortal world and the third empire means they have taken the first steps into mantling Talos.