The DLC abuse continues... Risen 2

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I was really looking forward to Risen 2, so after being made aware of this Review and its impending Release: http://www.destructoid.com/review-risen-2-dark-waters-225653.phtml

...Risen 2 is ridiculously cheap at times. There are many monsters that can hit harder and swifter than you can, some of which can even outrun you if you attempt to escape. Certain monsters possess unblockable attacks that hit faster than the player can move, and they aren't shy about repeating those attacks and locking our hero into repeated "pain" animations. If you fight multiple opponents at once, you'll be trapped in a situation where one will be attacking you at melee range, while the others stand at a safe distance and throw unlimited spears or fire vicious muskets at you. All this is thrown at you before the hero is even halfway capable of defending himself against most of the enemies he'll be facing.

At times, things are so imbalanced as to be totally demoralizing. Risen 2 cruelly sets the player up to fail. Fancy challenging the first NPC you meet to a training duel? Expect him to kick your ass, using moves you won't be able to utilize yourself for hours. Expect him to whittle your health down to a sliver, which will you'll have to heal yourself. Expect that small mercy to be lacking from the less empathetic creatures waiting outside. Oh, and expect to save before and after every single fight, and sometimes in between.

...

Speaking of amusing, Risen 2's idea of what is and isn't an acceptable joke raises an eyebrow at times. I'm all for tasteless gags, but some of the dialog in this game may cross the boundaries of acceptably risqué patter and fall firmly into offensive territory. One early quest involves trying to force your companion into a kitchen job for no other reason than she's "a woman." Later on, characters openly refer to black natives as "spearchuckers" (a racist term in Europe) while several homophobic jokes crop up. One can argue that these characters are steeped in a world of piracy and such ignorance is expected, of course, though the fact that the comments are regularly presented in a matter-of-fact manner, with absolutely no sense of criticism or complaint, and sometimes come from the hero's own mouth, remains faintly alarming. It wasn't enough to offend me personally, but I certainly was surprised and I'd recommend those with rawer nerves keep their shields up.

...

Risen 2: Dark Waters is a difficult game to review, because I want to express how much I enjoyed myself in spite of the mountains of criticism that it quite rightly deserves. It's unnecessarily mean-spirited, it demands an immense amount of the player's time before it hits its stride, and the whole thing's potentially offensive to boot. All that said, when it finally opens up and lets the player have fun, Risen 2 has hours upon hours of legitimately enjoyable gameplay on offer. The frustration of getting trapped in the corner by a faster opponent never lets up, but once players get strong enough to soak it up and hit back, the feeling of relief and vindication is remarkable. All told, you'll get over thirty hours of pirate-flavored silliness that will brutalize you, then make you feel good inside.

What Piranha Bytes has developed could have been a thoroughly supreme game, one that could have gone toe to toe with the heavyweights of action role-playing. Due to a number of highly questionable design decisions, however, a lot of that potential has withered away. With so much lost, it's perhaps a testament to how talented the team secretly is that Risen 2 is still packed with fun in the face of truly inhibiting setbacks.

The author admits to not having been able to finish the original Risen, by the way, due to its "awkward navigation system, reliance on ambushes, and general imbalance."

I was just about to go out there and order it, since everything about it sounds amazing and right up my alley.

I managed to look around some more though and found out that it not only has a piece of Day-1 Pre-Order DLC, but according to this Review in German three of them, and they don't seem very well integrated either: http://www.pcgames.de/Risen-2-Dark-Waters-PC-235636/Tests/Risen-2-Test-Ein-atmosphaerisch-dichtes-Rollenspiel-mit-simplen-Kaempfen-und-wenigen-Bugs-879112/

Trying to translate that part:

[...]As negative one could assess the way, in which the game puts your nose towards missing already released and future DLC. Missing entries in the list of NPC-companions, that are marked with a question mark indicate further upcoming Mini-Add-Ons. The empty space for the missing legendary item from The Treasure Island-DLC is also shown in the main game and the player finds a letter in a bottle, which presumably has something to do with the upcoming Expansion around The Temple of Air. These loose ends make players feel uncomfortable about missing out on content, without buying the additional DLCs. Annoying!

So basically there is three "Day-1 DLCs" with this game, one people apparently get with their Pre-Orders called "Treasure Island" that otherwise costs 10€, which is an entire (smaller) island in the game world with around 2 hours of content, then there's a second one also consisting of an entire island called "The Temple of Air", which hasn't been priced yet but is likely also around that price point and there's also a Costume Pack DLC with a Pirate outfit, hat, boots, a weapon and a ring and those are only content announced and cut out before launch...

1) Treasure Island - Which people would get for Pre-Ordering and which costs ~10€ after, an entire island with extra quests and stuff
2) Pirate Costume - A special armor, boots, hat, gun and ring giving special stats and XP-Boni etc. (it's included in the Collector's Edition, but can apparently also be bought separately)
3) The Temple of Air - Which is apparently exclusive to the "Stahlbarts Schatz" Edition of the game that costs 90€ and people not ordering it that way can apparently only buy it "a few weeks later", it's also an entire island with extra quests etc.

There goes all my interest...

Dexter111:
There goes all my interest...

You took the words right out of my mouth. There's gotta be something we can do to decrease the chances of publishers shortchanging us (not buying it, sure, but there's always less enlightened people).

This game sounded interesting. Then I heard about this.
Thanks for the warning, I know not to bother with this game now.

Lets see completely optional content you dont need to get a full, though admittedly bad, game.......

Abuse how?

So let me see if I understand you, DLC any one of us can see coming a mile away is perfectly fine and dandy until the game leaves clues about it, then it's not cool?

I'm unclear on what the abuse is here.

One costume DLC, one preorder DLC and one collectors edition DLC. No relevant stuff for the main story, the sidequests from DLC are exactly what they are, sideqeusts and no one forces someone to buy it (this is literally that shit that I had to hear when I complaid about plotessential DLC being exclusive to preorder for Dues Ex: HR).

Meh, I don't care. Going to get the game and don't buy the DLC. Because apparently I am the only person on earth capable of doint so.

Fr]anc[is:
So let me see if I understand you, DLC any one of us can see coming a mile away is perfectly fine and dandy until the game leaves clues about it, then it's not cool?

I'm not really fine with most DLC (aside of what RockStar or Bethesda and a few others do with it, but I'd rather call some of those "Expansions"), but when you're trying to sell your game, it's NOT EVEN OUT YET and you've already announced 3 pieces of DLC to be around on Day1, a few of which were obviously cut out of the game since they are ~2 hour long experiences and because there are signs everywhere there is something seriously wrong with your business model and you're not going to get my money.

I just wrote this to inform other people what they get themselves into if they decide to buy the game, since it doesn't exactly say "3 Day-1 DLC Packs, more to follow soon, we want moar of your money for the same product!" in the commercials.

So the first used TAGES 3 machine activation limit and the second have the most bullshit level of DRM. Deep Silver might end up on my black list.

People complain about the pettiest things.

The other day I was reading an article about the retailer specific bonus guns for the new Hitman game and there were a few people complaining about being "forced" to buy the game from 3 different places just to get all the "content."

Somewhere out there, there's a person planning on spending $180 buying the same game 3 different times from 3 different stores just so they can get 3 in-game bonus weapons for a game that encourages you not to use any guns. That is insane.

The really bad part is people have been pushed so far this doesn't even raise an eyebrow with most.

Ya my Risen 2 purchase is on hold until they release the whole thing at a proper price, they are already on the edge of obscurity and then pulling shit like this... insanity is what that is.

linwolf:
So the first used TAGES 3 machine activation limit and the second have the most bullshit level of DRM. Deep Silver might end up on my black list.

They actually ADDED the Activation Limits for the Steam Version of the game (just like Crysis did). The Retail version, which I bought, played and even Reviewed back in the day only had a disk check...

By the way, aside of having the 3 Day-1 DLCs, one of them (The Temple of Air one) is apparently a timed Exclusive only available to the people that bought the "Stahlbarts Schatz" Edition of the game for ~90€: http://www.amazon.de/Risen-Dark-Waters-Collectors-Edition/dp/B004NI09SI

Other people that might even want to pay for that so they can explore the extra island and have the complete game can't even do that, because it will apparently only be available for everyone "in a few weeks".

This has to be a new low somewhere...

Dexter111:
but when you're trying to sell your game, it's NOT EVEN OUT YET and you've already announced 3 pieces of DLC to be around on Day1, a few of which were obviously cut out of the game since they are ~2 hour long experiences

Um, I'm confused as to how DLC being about 2 hours long OBVIOUSLY means that it was cut from the main game. In fact, it doesn't really seem obvious at all. It's certainly an assumption, but obvious, not so much.

Elamdri:

Dexter111:
but when you're trying to sell your game, it's NOT EVEN OUT YET and you've already announced 3 pieces of DLC to be around on Day1, a few of which were obviously cut out of the game since they are ~2 hour long experiences

Um, I'm confused as to how DLC being about 2 hours long OBVIOUSLY means that it was cut from the main game. In fact, it doesn't really seem obvious at all. It's certainly an assumption, but obvious, not so much.

You realize you are talking about a game that was just released today and has 2 DLCs with entire landmasses, quest NPCs, dialogues, quests etc. ready at launch?

If you do, then it should be rather obvious that that content hasn't created itself and that amount of content takes designers several months to complete.

Now you might pull the same bullshit argument about it "taking a while to certify", Patches costing money and bla blah blah, except the console release of the game is in July for Xbox360 and August for Playstation 3, there's nothing to "certify" with Valve and Patches cost nothing.

Ergo the sole reason this content is Day-1 DLC is greed (not that there really is any other in other cases, but this is an especially watertight one).

Wow, three pieces of minor DLC that adds only one percent of total content is abuse how? Is the gaming company forcing you to purchase plot relevant missions that will affect the outcome of the game? Do these extra skins break the game somehow? Or are they just fun little extras only meant for the people that like the game a little more than the rest of us and want to see more of that world?

If I had any interest in this game, the existence of Day one DLC will not prevent me from buying it. I would just buy the game, play it until I'm done and if the game piqued my interest enough, I buy the extra stuff. That is it. That how always been. That how marketing works.

The game I'm purchasing does not come with the extra DLC, nor do I expect to get any.

It does not help your cause when you treat every piece of Day one DLC, no matter how minor, like a personal attack against you.

Wow I was actually considering getting this and the original Risen at some point. Though the balance issues in that review already made me make my decision 3 Day 1 DLCs. Really? Not even EA is that greedy. Though I can't believe how many people are actually ok with them taking parts of the game out and selling them back to people. I thought we were smarter than this. Well thanks for the heads up. Guess I go look somewhere else for a different RPG coming out later. Do you know anything else good coming out?

Hold on, let me act all surprised and raged as if this is the first time this has happened.

Anyone remember a little game called Dragon Age Origins? It had day one DLC, the Shale Golem and if you bought it used you had to pay 22 bucks for it.

malestrithe:
Wow, three pieces of minor DLC that adds only one percent of total content is abuse how? Is the gaming company forcing you to purchase plot relevant missions that will affect the outcome of the game? Do these extra skins break the game somehow? Or are they just fun little extras only meant for the people that like the game a little more than the rest of us and want to see more of that world?

If I had any interest in this game, the existence of Day one DLC will not prevent me from buying it. I would just buy the game, play it until I'm done and if the game piqued my interest enough, I buy the extra stuff. That is it. That how always been. That how marketing works.

The game I'm purchasing does not come with the extra DLC, nor do I expect to get any.

It does not help your cause when you treat every piece of Day one DLC, no matter how minor, like a personal attack against you.

Also what this guy said. You people really need to stop acting as if they are doing this solely out of hatred for you, get the fuck over it.

Day 1 retailer or CE-exclusive DLC is shit, nobody feels rewarded from it, only like they're missing out.

CDPR tried it, released it for free a week later and swore off it. I pray other developers display this common sense.

malestrithe:
Wow, three pieces of minor DLC that adds only one percent of total content is abuse how? Is the gaming company forcing you to purchase plot relevant missions that will affect the outcome of the game? Do these extra skins break the game somehow? Or are they just fun little extras only meant for the people that like the game a little more than the rest of us and want to see more of that world?

If I had any interest in this game, the existence of Day one DLC will not prevent me from buying it. I would just buy the game, play it until I'm done and if the game piqued my interest enough, I buy the extra stuff. That is it. That how always been. That how marketing works.

The game I'm purchasing does not come with the extra DLC, nor do I expect to get any.

It does not help your cause when you treat every piece of Day one DLC, no matter how minor, like a personal attack against you.

How the hell is entire islands with quest hubs, quests, characters and everything considered "minor" and "not relevant" now?
(The "official" word on the Treasure Island one is 5 hours of content, although I heard its more like 2: http://www.destructoid.com/preview-what-to-expect-from-risen-2-s-treasure-isle-dlc-224126.phtml)
To what ends will people go to defend bad business practices? It boggles my mind.
What do you get by defending publishers from cutting up your games so you can buy them separately?

This is like taking Monkey Island, removing Booty and Lucre Island and selling them as DLC, before the game is actually out!

image

imahobbit4062:
Hold on, let me act all surprised and raged as if this is the first time this has happened.

Anyone remember a little game called Dragon Age Origins? It had day one DLC, the Shale Golem and if you bought it used you had to pay 22 bucks for it.

I remember well enough, understandable. In this case though you're buying it new and they're asking for more right away, and that even more blatantly than Mass Effect 3 did...

80Maxwell08:
Wow I was actually considering getting this and the original Risen at some point. Though the balance issues in that review already made me make my decision 3 Day 1 DLCs. Really? Not even EA is that greedy. Though I can't believe how many people are actually ok with them taking parts of the game out and selling them back to people. I thought we were smarter than this. Well thanks for the heads up. Guess I go look somewhere else for a different RPG coming out later. Do you know anything else good coming out?

Unfortunately no, Dead State is the next KickStarter-RPG I'm waiting for but it doesn't exactly fall into the same type of game, that's what makes this especially such a bummer.

Other than that there's only a lot of MMOs that might satisfy the same needs around Guild Wars 2, TERA and so on dno...

The Original Risen was alright though xD The Retail version even comes without the "Activiation Limit" bullcrap.

Funny thing, apparently most of the people ordering the Special-Special-Complete-Edition called "Stahlbart's Schatz" or something didn't even get their DLC codes from Amazon or other Retailers (it wasn't in the package) and it's 3 days after Release. They're complaining on certain sites including their official forums...
http://forum.deepsilver.com/forum/showthread.php/63032-Geheimnisvolle-Notiz-tempel-der-Lüfte-(nicht-vorhanden-)

In this thread for instance there's a few replies from Deep Silver guys: http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1139995-DLC-Tempel-der-Lüfte/page4

The first guy a few days ago said something like:

Well Amazon.de got the Codes from us...
Maybe they want to keep them for themselves.

And there's a new reply from today:

We are sorry, that you are still waiting for your Codes. We are talking with Amazon from our side. As Ni Mhaille wrote before, Amazon is a big company and at the moment we can't really do anything to speed up the process.

The Codes will likely arrive soon. I don't know either if Amazon is counting caledary or workdays.

All the while there's apparently "another version" out there, that has all content available.

Dexter111:

Elamdri:

Dexter111:
but when you're trying to sell your game, it's NOT EVEN OUT YET and you've already announced 3 pieces of DLC to be around on Day1, a few of which were obviously cut out of the game since they are ~2 hour long experiences

Um, I'm confused as to how DLC being about 2 hours long OBVIOUSLY means that it was cut from the main game. In fact, it doesn't really seem obvious at all. It's certainly an assumption, but obvious, not so much.

You realize you are talking about a game that was just released today and has 2 DLCs with entire landmasses, quest NPCs, dialogues, quests etc. ready at launch?

If you do, then it should be rather obvious that that content hasn't created itself and that amount of content takes designers several months to complete.

Now you might pull the same bullshit argument about it "taking a while to certify", Patches costing money and bla blah blah, except the console release of the game is in July for Xbox360 and August for Playstation 3, there's nothing to "certify" with Valve and Patches cost nothing.

Ergo the sole reason this content is Day-1 DLC is greed (not that there really is any other in other cases, but this is an especially watertight one).

Translation: "I am ignorant of how game development or certification works and even when someone else tells me how and why, I still willfully disregard their facts."

Dexter111:
By the way, aside of having the 3 Day-1 DLCs, one of them (The Temple of Air one) is apparently a timed Exclusive only available to the people that bought the "Stahlbarts Schatz" Edition of the game for ~90€: http://www.amazon.de/Risen-Dark-Waters-Collectors-Edition/dp/B004NI09SI

Other people that might even want to pay for that so they can explore the extra island and have the complete game can't even do that, because it will apparently only be available for everyone "in a few weeks".

This has to be a new low somewhere...

Really? That's a low blow. I would accept day 1 "DLC" used as a pre-order bonus as long as that content is a timed exclusive. In short, timed exclusives is one of the few times I'll let day 1 DLC slide as it will be widely available to everyone for free, with new purchases of the game, after a set amount of time has expired and only used as exclusive content to incetivise pre-orders. I cannot read German so I will take your word as truth but it just seems odd to limit the pre-order DLC to those who have the Stahlbarts Schatz edition.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with the ensuing trolling that is going to take place in this thread in support of day 1 DLC. We're all just self-entitled extra haters in their eyes.

In b4 food and car analogies.

imahobbit4062:
Hold on, let me act all surprised and raged as if this is the first time this has happened.

Anyone remember a little game called Dragon Age Origins? It had day one DLC, the Shale Golem and if you bought it used you had to pay 22 bucks for it.

malestrithe:
Wow, three pieces of minor DLC that adds only one percent of total content is abuse how? Is the gaming company forcing you to purchase plot relevant missions that will affect the outcome of the game? Do these extra skins break the game somehow? Or are they just fun little extras only meant for the people that like the game a little more than the rest of us and want to see more of that world?

If I had any interest in this game, the existence of Day one DLC will not prevent me from buying it. I would just buy the game, play it until I'm done and if the game piqued my interest enough, I buy the extra stuff. That is it. That how always been. That how marketing works.

The game I'm purchasing does not come with the extra DLC, nor do I expect to get any.

It does not help your cause when you treat every piece of Day one DLC, no matter how minor, like a personal attack against you.

Also what this guy said. You people really need to stop acting as if they are doing this solely out of hatred for you, get the fuck over it.

you picked a bad example there, that was for if you bought the game used, which i see no problem with, as it was given to you for free with a new copy. if you had picked me3 on the other hand i probably would've agreed with you.

OT: this has been happening for quite a while..sure, glad you pointed it out, but shouldn't be a big suprise, nor does it seem like it's part of the main storyline in any way, so i probably wouldn't buy it and just not care really.

EcksTeaSea:
Translation: "I am ignorant of how game development or certification works and even when someone else tells me how and why, I still willfully disregard their facts."

More like I went to university and studied computer sciences and work as a software developer (not games though) and have laid my eyes on more than one cost/resource/schedule plan including risk assessment and work packages/milestones split up to different people and thus can't take it when people are fed a load of bullshit as if DLC and other features aren't planned from early on within the development with concept, story, voice work etc. all done in tandem with the main game just planned for additional billing later and those people believe it without scrutiny as if developers are somehow the great wizard of Oz, great mythical being that always tells the truth and would never lie or tell half-truths to sell a product.

But go on believing every reason marketing gives you so you can justify spending more money for the same effort.

Oh, also apparently large parts of that content was of course already on the game disks and I'll repeat again that there is largely no need for any "certification" for PC titles. That's mostly a Microsoft thing and required for games and Patches if said games would use Games for Windows Live, but not on Steam.

It's good that developers with some moral fibre to them are increasingly speaking out against this practice though:

http://kotaku.com/5801811/all-witcher-2-dlc-will-be-free-developer-assures
http://n4g.com/news/986714/cd-projekt-co-founder-on-disc-dlc-is-pathetic/com
http://www.edge-online.com/news/harada-tekken-will-never-have-paid-dlc-characters
http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=61400
http://www.dealspwn.com/bastion-developer-dlc-ruins-immersion-96089
http://gamersxtreme.org/2011/11/18/nintendo-stands-tall-against-dlc/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97877-Rebellion-Says-No-Justification-for-DLC-Already-on-Discs

Even the managing director of Piranha Bytes put it rather clear where the decision supposedly came from:

please direct all complaints about marketing and sales decisions to the place where they have to go to - our publisher Deep Silver that is. We do not set prices, timings or bundle decisions (never did and probably never will).

Regards, Michael Rüve

All the while DLC practices get more and more disgusting with larger parts being left out:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Capcom-We-Catch-Street-Fighter-X-Tekken-Hackers-Ourselves-40619.html
or people apparently having to pay to see the ending of a game: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Want-Real-Ending-Asura-Wrath-Cough-Up-6-99-40917.html

Wow, the comments in this thread are so anti-consumer it is fucking mind blowing, how are two questing hubs with several hours of game play (with one of them purportedly 5 hours long) now considered minor dlc!? That people are so complacent as to accept this is frankly terrifying, and I fear for the future where people are so complacent that they'll have their game cut up to bits and then defend the developers decision in doing so.

Skins, gun packs, minor perks, hell even small npc's like the prothean from me3 are acceptable "minor" dlc but two completed quest hubs with several hours of gameplay offered as day-1 dlc, now that is offensive, and that is the type of dlc practices that we should actively be fighting against in fear that it will get even worse.

darkstone:
Wow, the comments in this thread are so anti-consumer it is fucking mind blowing, how are two questing hubs with several hours of game play (with one of them purportedly 5 hours long) now considered minor dlc!? That people are so complacent as to accept this is frankly terrifying, and I fear for the future where people are so complacent that they'll have their game cut up to bits and then defend the developers decision in doing so.

Skins, gun packs, minor perks, hell even small npc's like the prothean from me3 are acceptable "minor" dlc but two completed quest hubs with several hours of gameplay offered as day-1 dlc, now that is offensive, and that is the type of dlc practices that we should actively be fighting against in fear that it will get even worse.

I know, its mindblowing how much abuse people will not only take, but defend the abusers while screaming...SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY. And its sad, because its usually these people that are the ones with the money to waste their money buying crappy games new at 60 bucks, and buying every DLC the nanosecond it drops. All it does is teach developers that their customers are just a bunch of consumer whores that will lap up anything they crap out.

darkstone:
Wow, the comments in this thread are so anti-consumer it is fucking mind blowing, how are two questing hubs with several hours of game play (with one of them purportedly 5 hours long) now considered minor dlc!? That people are so complacent as to accept this is frankly terrifying, and I fear for the future where people are so complacent that they'll have their game cut up to bits and then defend the developers decision in doing so.

Skins, gun packs, minor perks, hell even small npc's like the prothean from me3 are acceptable "minor" dlc but two completed quest hubs with several hours of gameplay offered as day-1 dlc, now that is offensive, and that is the type of dlc practices that we should actively be fighting against in fear that it will get even worse.

Agreed. God it's like people just want it to get worse.

I wouldn't get it to be honest, I would just get the first one. It's got removed features, and not much added (although the story is a little more interesting. You can't block enemies unless they have a weapon, so you come up against any animals and it's just a matter of luck whether or not they decide to rapid attack stun-lock you until you die. Although in my playthrough of Risen 2 I didn't really notice any missing features.

So far I have played 5 hours and the DLC hasn't even been available to me yet (pre-ordered normal version so I got the treasure island). I guess its when you get your own ship or something, but so far it has had no effect. I am enjoying the exp to the fullest right now. It plays just like the old Risen just has a pirates of the Caribbean instead of middle earth setting.

As for everyone who is whining over day one DLC. Get over it. If you insist that this is part of the full game, then calculate the price as such. In the meantime I am enjoying 5 hours worth and I just made it off the first island. I have no clue what the DLC entails, but if it is going to fit it is going to be "off the beaten path material".

Fuck 'em. The game is bad anyway. Be sure to make a good game before you decide to rape your customers with DLC.

darkstone:
Wow, the comments in this thread are so anti-consumer it is fucking mind blowing, how are two questing hubs with several hours of game play (with one of them purportedly 5 hours long) now considered minor dlc!? That people are so complacent as to accept this is frankly terrifying, and I fear for the future where people are so complacent that they'll have their game cut up to bits and then defend the developers decision in doing so.

Skins, gun packs, minor perks, hell even small npc's like the prothean from me3 are acceptable "minor" dlc but two completed quest hubs with several hours of gameplay offered as day-1 dlc, now that is offensive, and that is the type of dlc practices that we should actively be fighting against in fear that it will get even worse.

This. I am reading through the thread and can hardly believe how anti-consumer people seem to be about this. This is not minor DLC, that would be a few extra skins or guns that you don't need for the full experience. This is a pretty damn big part of the game and it seems that it's only going to get worse.

Why would someone be happy about this? WHAT IS WRONG... ahem... with you people?

darkstone:
Wow, the comments in this thread are so anti-consumer it is fucking mind blowing, how are two questing hubs with several hours of game play (with one of them purportedly 5 hours long) now considered minor dlc!? That people are so complacent as to accept this is frankly terrifying, and I fear for the future where people are so complacent that they'll have their game cut up to bits and then defend the developers decision in doing so.

Skins, gun packs, minor perks, hell even small npc's like the prothean from me3 are acceptable "minor" dlc but two completed quest hubs with several hours of gameplay offered as day-1 dlc, now that is offensive, and that is the type of dlc practices that we should actively be fighting against in fear that it will get even worse.

It's Stockholm Syndrome at it's finest. It's so sad that most gamers don't have the moral fortitude to actually go without a game, instead buying it and actually supporting all its shitty business practises. Makes you wonder just how outlandish those claims of mass videogame addiction are...

"Mah precious, mah precious! Capcom, they has the precious, the precious Marvel Vs Capcom 3! They will gives us the precious if we're nice to them, perhaps they will? *Gollum! Gollum!* We won't lets anyone insult the master if the master lets us haves the precious. We swear to do what you wants! We'll give your all our monies for extra characters. We'll gives you all our monies for characters already on the disc. Just gives mah precious!"

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