Who should the industry pay attention to?
Jim sterling
21% (451)
21% (451)
Extra credits
38.8% (833)
38.8% (833)
Both
30% (645)
30% (645)
non
4.5% (96)
4.5% (96)
"thank god for me"
5.3% (113)
5.3% (113)
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Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

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Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.

Yes sexism in Xbox live is unacceptable and yes verbal jousting does cross the line, But If we followed the suggestions they say, it would be the death of free speech. Where is the line between sexism, racism and bullying and at what point does it leave the realms of hate speech and into just having a different opinion?

Jim sterling's theory of immaturity being a good way to deal with unlikable people is what happens online 60% of the time. Here is an example of how jims logic works.

In the end, you both have the ability to silence each other through the use of mute, and fragging them is always the best option. Every time I hear A racist 12 year old from Indonesia, I (1) mute them (2) frag them (3) unmute them to see if they will act civil now(4) if not mute then warn my teammates, no need to ban anyone just ignore them or If they are to young to be playing the game mock them about there age and how they should "really get of their mom's computer" .......simple

Edit 1
I like EC it is just that yesterdays episode contridivted jims earlier video.

EC is not "pretentous" It is sometimes biased but not uninteligable.

Edit 2

To clear one point, I believe that light trash talk IE swearing is accepteble. \Personel threats sexist/racist remarks are ban worthy.

Edit 3
takes a special sort of question to get metioned in an episode of the Jimquisition....
Extra credits I expect a 3 episode mini series(scarcasm)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5653-Better-Does-Not-Mean-Good

Jim Sterling has just about everything nailed down. I know a lot of people hate the guy but I very rarely disagree with him. For all his joking around with his God complex and what not, hes probably the most sensible content producer on this site.

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

As for immaturity on xbox live specifically, you can mute people. I never understand the problem with minor online harassment. Some guy hitting on you in Facebook? You have a block button. Some kid on xbox live calling you a nigger jew? Bring up the scoreboard, scroll down to his name and press X. Problem solved.

I'm still wary of Extra Credits after that absolutely horrible RPG series they did recently. Though I get the feeling you don't get how their first solution works. It depends on the community to mute them not some random mod. So the community draws that line. Or maybe you do get that and you think the auto muting will occur from simple things like being muted disagreeing opinions. Though fighting immaturity with immaturity well...ever hear the phrase "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? Same scenario especially since most of them just want attention. Also what is fragging?

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Jim Sterling has just about everything nailed down. I know a lot of people hate the guy but I very rarely disagree with him. For all his joking around with his God complex and what not, hes probably the most sensible content producer on this site.

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

As for immaturity on xbox live specifically, you can mute people. I never understand the problem with minor online harassment. Some guy hitting on you in Facebook? You have a block button. Some kid on xbox live calling you a nigger jew? Bring up the scoreboard, scroll down to his name and press X. Problem solved.

I like Jim, better than yahtzee actually

didt like EC? I liked them in that they were all sunshine and rainbows, a nice contrast to other certin stuff here

but then they went on that artistic integrity bullshit with ME3.....*snnrrk*

At least Jim isn't pretentious as all fuck.

EC came off as way too preachy to me and they always thought what they were saying was right.

At least Jim on the other hand does it in a more joking fashion and doesn't try to shove artistic stuff down my throat. He also did an entire episode about the Dynasty Warriors series which instantly gives him a lot of bonus points with me (despite never mentioning the music).

80Maxwell08:
I'm still wary of Extra Credits after that absolutely horrible RPG series they did recently. Though I get the feeling you don't get how their first solution works. It depends on the community to mute them not some random mod. So the community draws that line. Or maybe you do get that and you think the auto muting will occur from simple things like being muted disagreeing opinions. Though fighting immaturity with immaturity well...ever hear the phrase "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? Same scenario especially since most of them just want attention. Also what is fragging?

Fragging is a slighyly more PC term for killing in game.
I agree that An eye for An eye makes the world go blind, but what if you simply wclose your eyes and pretend nothing is happening? Then I reckon you lose some credibility in the eyes of the instigator of the attack and at the end of the day, If you do not take offence and simply say well the same to you, then you are teaching the instigator that his/her actions have consequences.

James Ennever:

80Maxwell08:
I'm still wary of Extra Credits after that absolutely horrible RPG series they did recently. Though I get the feeling you don't get how their first solution works. It depends on the community to mute them not some random mod. So the community draws that line. Or maybe you do get that and you think the auto muting will occur from simple things like being muted disagreeing opinions. Though fighting immaturity with immaturity well...ever hear the phrase "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"? Same scenario especially since most of them just want attention. Also what is fragging?

Fragging is a slighyly more PC term for killing in game.
I agree that An eye for An eye makes the world go blind, but what if you simply wclose your eyes and pretend nothing is happening? Then I reckon you lose some credibility in the eyes of the instigator of the attack and at the end of the day, If you do not take offence and simply say well the same to you, then you are teaching the instigator that his/her actions have consequences.

First off thanks for saying what fragging is. If everyone ignores them then they will realize that this won't get them attention. In attacking them back they have already won. I say try the muting thing and see if it works since right now no one is trying to fix it. I don't play multiplayer at all thanks to this kind of thing.

Extra Credits tends to talk down to their audience quite a lot. That said, I liked their solution to this problem. The first one, about the default mute. Taking away the ability to message other players seems pretty draconian.

Xbox live is a nasty, immature community, and I've abandoned most online gaming because of that. Microsoft really should start taking steps to clean it up.

majora13:
Extra Credits tends to talk down to their audience quite a lot. That said, I liked their solution to this problem. The first one, about the default mute. Taking away the ability to message other players seems pretty draconian.

Xbox live is a nasty, immature community, and I've abandoned most online gaming because of that. Microsoft really should start taking steps to clean it up.

ECs solution, which I think would ruin multiplayer is to factor in A mute average. What if you are having A bad day and you trash talk the opisition? according to them you should be permenantly ostrisised, it is a dangerous idea.

I can't believe I'm about to say this. Okay, here goes: Jim Sterling is less full of himself than the EC crew. The guys at EC are so far up their own asses it's unbelievable. Their "gaming is the wave of the future!" attitude grates on my nerves. That being said, they've still got plenty of good things to say in a few episodes that isn't pretentious drivel. Jim just happens to have more of it.

James Ennever:

majora13:
Extra Credits tends to talk down to their audience quite a lot. That said, I liked their solution to this problem. The first one, about the default mute. Taking away the ability to message other players seems pretty draconian.

Xbox live is a nasty, immature community, and I've abandoned most online gaming because of that. Microsoft really should start taking steps to clean it up.

ECs solution, which I think would ruin multiplayer is to factor in A mute average. What if you are having A bad day and you trash talk the opisition? according to them you should be permenantly ostrisised, it is a dangerous idea.

I understand their solution. It would not necessarily penalize a bad day, or even the occasional bad day. There would be a threshold, and it would have to be fairy lenient to account for what you're talking about. Also you would have to factor in the risk that some players might mute people just out of spite. There are issues, but I think they could be worked out with a thoughtful implementation. It would spare us all listening to immature assholes every time we start a game, and I think that's a pretty worthwhile effort.

I'm sorry, I just have to: *Ostracized*

James Ennever:
I agree that An eye for An eye makes the world go blind, but what if you simply wclose your eyes and pretend nothing is happening? Then I reckon you lose some credibility in the eyes of the instigator of the attack and at the end of the day, If you do not take offence and simply say well the same to you, then you are teaching the instigator that his/her actions have consequences.

The consequences are that you're giving them attention. Which they seek. You know that other saying "Don't feed the trolls"? Yeah, they are trolls. Or did you think that if somebody said "Fuck you" and you replied "Yeah, the same to you" they'll have an emotional breakdown and realize what a horrible person they've been.

James Ennever:
ECs solution, which I think would ruin multiplayer is to factor in A mute average. What if you are having A bad day and you trash talk the opisition? according to them you should be permenantly ostrisised, it is a dangerous idea.

That wasn't the idea I got from them. Didn't they say that an auto-mute would come if you get muted by others too much? And they didn't even use numbers, say 100 times - raw statistics. You get muted significantly more than the average, then hey, no talking for you. It doesn't stop people from unmuting you. It's elegant in its simplicity, as people say, as the average muting is not determined by you or the devs.

Eh, I like both of 'em.

Yes, the EC guys can get a bit pretentious at times. However, I thought that auto-muting idea was brilliant. "But what about freeeee speeeeech?" Did you see the examples they used? Free speech does not cover screaming insults at someone. Besides, EC's suggestion doesn't hinder it in any way. Those miserable little shits are still free to speak and you are still free to listen.

James Ennever:

Yes sexism in Xbox live is unacceptable and yes verbal jousting does cross the line, But If we followed the suggestions they say, it would be the death of free speech. Where is the line between sexism, racism and bullying and at what point does it leave the realms of hate speech and into just having a different opinion?

Death of free speech? In a video game? The horror. Why do we need an exchange of ideas while we play this game? And when exactly does it go past to insults to a decently formed argument really? Free speech has it's place. Inside a game? No real reason for it. It's not the place where it matters.

'Just having a different opinion' always seems like a code phrase for defending sexism, racism, homophobia, and the like to me. No duh it's a different opinion. Who cares? Barely anyone attacks something JUST for that reason.

I still find the communities attitude towards EC funny. When they were on the escapist, everyone praised the earth they walked on and when they left any praise seemed to follow suite. Now Jim is now the appointed messiah of the Escapist Community.

Either way I think both parties have valid opinions and ideas, but if anything Jim sometimes feels a bit too tongue in cheek if that makes any sense.

I demand a "neither" option!

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

hazabaza1:
At least Jim isn't pretentious as all fuck.

wintercoat:
The guys at EC are so far up their own asses it's unbelievable. Their "gaming is the wave of the future!" attitude grates on my nerves.

Did I miss the part where EC decided to start stealing people's lunch money? There are definitely reasons to dislike Extra Credits, but does it warrant such hostility?

majora13:
[quote="James Ennever" post="9.373034.14403802"][quote="majora13" post="9.373034.14403781"]Extra Credits tends to talk down to their audience

I'm sorry, I just have to: *Ostracized*

Fair enough.........

Waffle_Man:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

hazabaza1:
At least Jim isn't pretentious as all fuck.

wintercoat:
The guys at EC are so far up their own asses it's unbelievable. Their "gaming is the wave of the future!" attitude grates on my nerves.

Did I miss the part where EC decided to start stealing people's lunch money? There are definitely reasons to dislike Extra Credits, but does it warrant such hostility?

I donated to that under the assumption that EC would stay on the escapist.....

Waffle_Man:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

hazabaza1:
At least Jim isn't pretentious as all fuck.

wintercoat:
The guys at EC are so far up their own asses it's unbelievable. Their "gaming is the wave of the future!" attitude grates on my nerves.

Did I miss the part where EC decided to start stealing people's lunch money? There are definitely reasons to dislike Extra Credits, but does it warrant such hostility?

When I'm talked down to practically every EC episode like I'm a fucking 5 year old? Yes, the open hostility is warranted. Jim does it for the rise it gets out of people. The EC crew are just pretentious.

Am I the only one who likes EC? It's pretty much the only high-level discussion show that exists about games.

James Ennever:

I donated to that under the assumption that EC would stay on the escapist.....

Fair enough. I don't know enough about the debacle to debate one way or the other, but it is nice to have a reason beyond "screw those guys!"

wintercoat:
When I'm talked down to practically every EC episode like I'm a fucking 5 year old? Yes, the open hostility is warranted. Jim does it for the rise it gets out of people. The EC crew are just pretentious.

It hardly seems fair to judge a show that was trying to make issues understandable to someone who wasn't necessarily acquainted with them. Aside from this, can you tell me any actual examples of them being pretentious? It is a subjective term, but I having trouble thinking of any moments that would fit any definition that I know of.

I liked EC and watch some of their more interesting episodes when I can but I like Jim better, he usaully ends up addressing the point better IMO

I've not watched the episodes in question, but in general I think that EC stands up better when put under a PROMPT analysis. Note that this is not about how entertaining they are, but each shows reliability.

Presentation: E.C use an even and easily understood tone to convey their message while Jim rants and slurs a lot, sacrificing clarity for a sense of personal voice.

Relevance: They both produce material about games. /shrug

Objectivity: While both have a bias, I think that E.Cs is the more open and honest here, although they want gaming to be considered a serious medium and as such they present their facts with some grandosity. They also tend to sugercoat negitive arguments, but at least they present them in some form or another. Jim on the other hand I feel is a little corrupt. I belive that his agenda is for sale to a certain degree as he often plugs individual games. This makes me question whether or not his opinions are his own or created for page views or regulated by his producer.

Method: E.C have a definate academic approach to what they produce. Jim seems to have no real method beyond opinion which is impossible to argue with or quantify.

Provenance: E.C show sources and they are open with the fact that they are industry professionals first, journalist second. Jim does neither of these but again it comes down to the fact that he produces opinion pieces. He is his own source and he has no apparent qualities that elevate this.

Timeliness: Since they both produce articles on a regular basis they can both be considered timely.

Elamdri:
Am I the only one who likes EC? It's pretty much the only high-level discussion show that exists about games.

You're never the only one.

I like Extra Credits' academic approach to games and think most people just parrot the "pretentious" line without really understanding it.

Biased opinion incoming.

I disliked EC when they were here and I still dislike them now.

Jim is British therefore I instantly like him .... plus he makes me giggle.

I can't honestly think of one good thing to say about the EC lot so i'm not even going to attempt it.

As such I didn't watch said episode so will just have to go with Jim's idea.

I don't dislike Extra Credits, I just think they are kind of inoffensive and preach to the choir too much. Jim's got more bite, and actually calls out the groups that need to be called out.

Jim is opinionated, prepared to get worked up into a very welcome nerd rage, and funny. He knows and is comfortable with the persona and while I don't agree with him on everything, that isn't totally his point. He doesn't come across as genuinely believing he's right about everything, though he'll joke that he is. Thank God for Jim.

EC speak down and talk as if they are the fountain of truth on the matter. Also, they are wrong. Their section on investors and finance made me want to punch them in the mouth because every word they said was complete fabricated bullshit that even the smallest amount of research would show. So basically I don't give a crap. I've watched maybe just 1 or 2 in the last year, and those were utter rubbish, so whatever.

Again, thank God for Jim.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't everyone like HATE Jim Sterling when his show first started. In fact, I distinctly remember multiple "God Jim Sterling sucks" threads about that time. What happened?

Wow. When did everyone start saying the EC was pretentious? I swear, this did not exist when they were still here. Connection? You decide!

OT: I like both. Jim, for his more opinionated take on things. EC, for their more academic approach to things. When I watch a Jim video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed rant. When I watch an EC video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed short lecture/opinion piece. Different stokes, I guess. :/ But then again, I don't have an insane hostility to apposing views that many have. I fact, I rather like hearing another person's take on something. So... take from that what you will.

Elamdri:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't everyone like HATE Jim Sterling when his show first started. In fact, I distinctly remember multiple "God Jim Sterling sucks" threads about that time. What happened?

Yes they did then he listened and changed his show.

BreakfastMan:
Wow. When did everyone start saying the EC was pretentious? I swear, this did not exist when they were still here. Connection? You decide!

OT: I like both. Jim, for his more opinionated take on things. EC, for their more academic approach to things. When I watch a Jim video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed rant. When I watch an EC video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed short lecture/opinion piece. Different stokes, I guess. :/ But then again, I don't have an insane hostility to apposing views that many have. I fact, I rather like hearing another person's take on something. So... take from that what you will.

Actually there was quite a bit of people that didn't like them when they were here for many of the same reasons listed here. I remember seeing the "talking down to" posts quite a bit.

80Maxwell08:

Elamdri:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't everyone like HATE Jim Sterling when his show first started. In fact, I distinctly remember multiple "God Jim Sterling sucks" threads about that time. What happened?

Yes they did then he listened and changed his show.

BreakfastMan:
Wow. When did everyone start saying the EC was pretentious? I swear, this did not exist when they were still here. Connection? You decide!

OT: I like both. Jim, for his more opinionated take on things. EC, for their more academic approach to things. When I watch a Jim video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed rant. When I watch an EC video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed short lecture/opinion piece. Different stokes, I guess. :/ But then again, I don't have an insane hostility to apposing views that many have. I fact, I rather like hearing another person's take on something. So... take from that what you will.

Actually there was quite a bit of people that didn't like them when they were here for many of the same reasons listed here. I remember seeing the "talking down to" posts quite a bit.

You know, I keep seeing people say that they "Talk down to" their viewers, but not a whole lot of examples of aforementioned behavior...

80Maxwell08:

BreakfastMan:
Wow. When did everyone start saying the EC was pretentious? I swear, this did not exist when they were still here. Connection? You decide!

OT: I like both. Jim, for his more opinionated take on things. EC, for their more academic approach to things. When I watch a Jim video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed rant. When I watch an EC video, I feel like I just watched a well constructed short lecture/opinion piece. Different stokes, I guess. :/ But then again, I don't have an insane hostility to apposing views that many have. I fact, I rather like hearing another person's take on something. So... take from that what you will.

Actually there was quite a bit of people that didn't like them when they were here for many of the same reasons listed here. I remember seeing the "talking down to" posts quite a bit.

You must have been looking in different places than me then. I saw those posts then about as often as I see "Jim teh sux0r" posts now. :/

Elamdri:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't everyone like HATE Jim Sterling when his show first started. In fact, I distinctly remember multiple "God Jim Sterling sucks" threads about that time. What happened?

He improved, honestly. He got much, much better the longer he went on. He learned how to better write his character, he learned how to better present his opinions, the whole she-bang.

Waffle_Man:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

hazabaza1:
At least Jim isn't pretentious as all fuck.

wintercoat:
The guys at EC are so far up their own asses it's unbelievable. Their "gaming is the wave of the future!" attitude grates on my nerves.

Did I miss the part where EC decided to start stealing people's lunch money? There are definitely reasons to dislike Extra Credits, but does it warrant such hostility?

Yes. Yes it does. Extra Credits is more than a show you dislike. Extra Credits its one of those things. Their pretentious, artsy bullshit gets on every bodies nerves. Well, almost every body. Those few people who sit their screaming "B-b-but video games will never be taken seriously! Wahhh!" love them.

Another thing: Jim Sterling is a gamer first, journalist second. (There, I edited it, can you annoying folks leave me alone now? Find someone else to spam.) Extra Credits are games journalists. Big difference.

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