Jim sterling |
 |
21.1% (452) |
Extra credits |
|
39% (836) |
Both |
|
30.1% (645) |
non |
|
4.5% (96) |
"thank god for me" |
|
5.2% (112) |
Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . . . 17 NEXT | |
They're both cancers of the internet. Especially EC, those guys are just awful in every way and I wish them nothing but absolute failure in their future endeavours. | |
Both. They tackle issues from opposite perspectives. James is a designer, Jim is a consumer. As for the shitty people on XBL issue... My gut tells me EC crowdsourced a couple of elegant solutions to a real problem, and Jim is telling people to stop wanting to change a service they pay a monthly fee for... but I have no desire to game online on consoles, so I'm not really qualified to judge. I've only heard these racist/sexist shits in youtube videos (and they pretty much make me think "if you were my kid, I'd punch you in the mouth and gladly let CPS take you away"). For ME3... well, I haven't played the game yet, but I was pretty outraged at ME2's various plot holes. I don't think it should be changed, I'm just disappointed in the writers. I personally think retake Mass Effect was too late. Like they finally realized that shambling zombie isn't their mommy anymore. | |
Who are you referring to? | |
Just to point this out, everyone here thinks what they say is correct. Thats just how opinions work, and honestly, just because one is more vocal about how they think that their opinion is correct doesn't exactly warrent the hostility that they get regularly.
Either bribes went around or he actually decided to stop drawing dicks into his show, but he can still fuck off. Anyone who makes a video as a ad for a game instead of talking about a game is just a giant tool in my eyes. Extra Credits at least tries to make actual points on the industry but Jim is such a arrogant and full-of-himself prick that I don't actually care anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but his actual persona is hurting his show more then Extra Credits opinions were hurting them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if he tackles it from a consumer standpoint and / or gamer standpoint, doesn't that mean his personality is that of a gamer who is a full-of-themselves prick. And if thats how he perceives gamers then isn't it also a insult?
... I love you. Honestly, Extra Credits preachiness is only there to help you come to your own conclusion, not to come to their conclusion. A persona, even if intent is to be a dick, is a dick. Jim doesn't want you to think of your own conclusion, just listen to his own. Extra Credits wants you to understand that there is many ways around a issue, and this is just one of probably countless other solutions, and I amend them for actually making fucking episodes and new content instead of making a god damn episode dedicated as a commercial and one dedicated to 20 seconds of darkness. | |
The industry should pay attention to the customers they are losing. This is a real issue, and we need to start making progress in these respects. If I were walking down the road one day and a dude was telling a woman to be productive and go suck some dude's cock I would deck him. Through the internet that's not an option, so there need to be options, and guess how often reporting works. | |
The main difference is that EC put thought into their episodes and Jim just rants about his own opinion. It doesn't surprise me that most people seem to prefer the latter, because it tends to require less thinking, but EC seems to be the only animated source of well-thought arguments about the gaming industry that I can find. All these people who call EC pretentious (most likely not knowing what the word means) and that insult those who like EC (for no real reason) are really starting to piss me off. | |
While it didn't make me hate them, the video where they compared intros to Skyrim and one of the Call of Duty games was full of misleading information. As a person who has never played Call of Duty, I assumed the arguments were presented fairly when they weren't. I also believe it's in poor taste to say that Skyrim lift a scene from Call of Duty when you have a history with the CoD franchise. It makes the video sound less like "this scene was partially inspired by this other game" and more like "They just took ideas from me and/or my former coworkers". It may be an unfair statement but it occurs naturally when you find out the you were mislead in the video. I still don't hate them, I just don't trust them(well just James I guess, he does the writing on his own right?) as much anymore. EDIT:
I hear his written articles are well done and (mostly) without the ego. I don't go to destructoid very often and the quality of his articles is second hand information, so take it with a grain of salt. | |
Quite a few points have been raised here, and my posts always seem to end up scattershot, so this isn't going to be very eloquent or organized: 1). Regarding their latest episode, I think that some of their proposed solutions were more effective than others. Automuting the person would work well, because not only would it keep people from potentially hearing any vitriolic language, but it would also serve as a warning to others. I don't agree with the accusation that this violates free speech: the player has every right to speak their mind, but they don't have the right to have people listen to them. 2). I think the word "pretentious" is getting thrown around too much here in a similar manner that the word "entitled" was during the Mass Effect 3 debate. I honestly don't understand how Extra Credits can be considered pretentious. People have briefly mentioned them "talking down" to the audience, but I don't see it. If you don't agree with Extra Credits, fine, but that doesn't make them pretentious. They are, ultimately, a show formed by opinion. I haven't seen any real explanation on why people think they are (besides a point about the Call of Juarez episode which, while a legitimate complaint, I don't think they were actually insinuating that everyone who plays it is a racist). 3). Jim performs satire. As such, it's harder (at least for me) to tell when he's making an actual point or when he's trying to be funny. He's done episodes that are completely humorous (one of the earlier ones regarding sexism in games), ones that are completely serious (the one where he talks about SOPA), but most are a mixture. He might be undermining himself in that aspect. | |
Isn't that his entire shtick? Regardless, nearly everything Jim says is just repeated, watered down versions of stuff that's been said on forums for decades and he never offers any solutions but "Fuck these kinds of people." EC is actually constructive about things, and they're almost the only show in the entire gaming scene that remains consistently positive and constructive about exactly how things can get fixed, not to mention offering actual insight into situations beyond the surface perspective. For the record, I never agree with everything either show says, but seriously: There's no real contest here. | |
Auto-mute is the death of Free Speech? **shakes head** Hate speech is NOT free speech. If someone wants to write and publish an article saying that women are less good at games than men, then one is allowed to do so. That is free speech - bigoted, but free. However, no one has the right to scream obscenities in my face. That is NOT Free speech. Auto-Muting people who are insulting ass-holes is not denying free speech. It is warning others about incorrect behavior. OT: Both. I don't always agree with either one, but they always present well-reasoned and well-researched points of view. | |
Jim puts on an act of arrogance to entertain. He isn't concerned about sitting on the fence. Both are informative, but I fear that the industry might not realise some of Jim's comments are 'ironically humours' in addition to some of his humour. Least with EC if you're an idiot and want to take everything at face value, you won't get owned by someone's sarcasm. | |
I'm not going to say any bull about freedom of speech, but doesn't it just seem sort of silly and superfluous? If you don't like what they are saying you can mute them for yourself, people who do want to here them will here them and it doesn't deprive them of a voice when talknig with a friend over co-op or something. | |
Free Speech does cover screaming insults at people. It covers everything, that's why it's called Free Speech. On topic, I like Sterling, he makes good points. | |
Yes, hate speech is free speech. Anyone has the right to hate you, the right to express that, and the right to insult you. Free speech doesn't only cover their right to express, it also covers your right to be exposed to what they have to say. Asserting "incorrect behaviour", like you have some kind of moral authority on what is correct and what is not, or on what constitutes free speech, is ridiculous. You're not the one to limit other's right to be exposed to what anyone has to say to them just because you found it offensive or mean. By that, you're actually taking their right of free speech away, instead of warning or protecting them. | |
I used to like EC and avoid Jim, but around the time of the great EC fiasco here, Jim was calm and sensible while whatshisface from EC was using Twitter to desperately sell himself as David fighting Goliath, and if there's one thing I hate it's someone with a martyr or underdog complex. Made me realize that the air of superiority EC gave off wasn't part of the lecturer/student theme the series has but just the way the writer thinks. So I dropped EC and gave Jim a second chance and now I watch him fairly regularly. He's at least keeping the faux-pretentious act to the start and end of videos so it's easy to skip without losing content, and it's more obvious that he's not drinking his own Kool-Aid anyway. (And I STILL need to get rid of that damned EC shirt I got for donating.) | |
Look, I love Extra Credits. There are times I agree with them, times I disagree with them, they're just stating their opinions. I can understand why people won't like them, but the genuine hatred I've seen is just unreal. To the people who say they're pretentious, artsy bullshit: yes, they have a tendency to think highly of themselves. The thing is, though, would anyone listen to them if they tried to run an intelligent conversation WITHOUT thinking highly of themselves? They don't make jokes, like Jim Sterling does, they're always serious, so the jokey self-satire wouldn't actually work. | |
Extra credits also argued - The importance of independent gaming Are you saying those points made a wrong? Are you saying that the gaming medium should grow? Shows like Extra Credits and Jimquisition deal with issues where a single correct answer can be determined and both shows strive to create a discussion with these issues. Look at the main threads about the show and you can see SCORES of people agreeing and disagreeing with them. How many times in a Jimquisition thread have people called him out for being "wrong" and how many people say he's on the money? Ever crtisisim you have toward EC can EASILY be directed toward the Jimquisition so why does Jimquisition get your approval when EC does the same thing but with a more academic approach and better structure (completed with cited resources) is always wrong? | |
Free speech does in fact not cover harassment, which is termed legally as verbal assault. Auto muting someone who has a history of verbally abusing people on a service that is paid for and requires agreement to an EULA is FAR from infringing on freedom of Speech. You are not removing their ability to say it, you are removing their ability to harass people. They are different matters altogether. Captcha: Oh, you Don't sound so let down. | |
Jim is hit and miss. And when he misses OH BOY! Every once in a while he will take a topic where he has a pre-set opinion on it and then just go looking for evidence to support it (see used games). He will sway to the crowds following popular opinion and when low on prober reasoning he will do emotional pleading. Extra Credits are a lot more informed, but also quite idealistic. Maybe even borderline naive. Very diplomatic they show both sides of the issue (in episode about kick starter there were plenty of opportunity to demonise the publishers, but they didn't). EC is more the voice of reason. | |
Big news, verbal assault laws are ridiculous. Unjust persecution is something entirely different. Getting shouted at on XBL is not persecution. You can tell me all the things your state can do, guess what, the state is wrong. Free speech is an absolute condition. Free means free, without restrictions. You either have it, or you don't. Civil rights are not a greyscale issue. If you can't let anyone say anything, then forget your right to free speech entirely and call it limited speech. There's no cherrypicking with civil or human rights, no matter how offended some kid may be. Freedom of speech goes way beyond XBL and some little brats shouting faggot over their mics. Microsoft can do whatever they want with their service, I don't care. But when you come on here and tell others just exactly how much free speech they are supposed to have, it's not about XBL anymore. The former is indeed not a right you can waive either. | |
I will always choose Extra Credits over Jim Sterling every time. Well, Jim, I have some news for you. You are annoying, you have an over-inflated ego, and quite frankly you need to stop thinking that you're so special. YOU'RE NOT!! | |
I find myself looking forward to the next Jimquisition far more than Extra Credits. I like EC and some of their episodes are fantastic but they just come off so preachy and whiny to me. I just like Jim's attitude towards situations more. | |
Funny, you say that but if you pay attention at all to current events, you're absolutely wrong. Care to tell me the laws that are enforced every day somehow don't exist anymore? And yes, there is in fact cherry-picking with civil rights. | |
Care to tell me why they could not possibly be wrong laws? I'm not disputing the existence of those laws. I'm saying they infringe freedom of speech and should be rewritten or abolished. You're saying how it is. I'm saying the way it is right now is wrong. You can tell me it's forbidden all day, I say, it shouldn't be. | |
He isn't arguing technical legality in the judicial system, he's arguing ideals, at least from the looks of it. A belief that rights are absolutely inherent. A right can't be given to you by somebody because then it is a privilege, the whole thing is rather detached from this really. Besides he is technically right in that those things are covered by free speech because free speech sanctifies your ability to say it, not say it without repercussions. | |
I guess the sarcasm went right over your head. Jim even addressed this in one of his episodes. | |
Jim is ok...EC always rubbed me the wrong way. I disliked it for a wide-variety of reasons, then someone linked me to the video of the one with the ridiculous facial hair telling his completely untouching and uninteresting sob story and it confirmed to me that my instinct was right and that I was completely justified in not liking these people. | |
You'll first have to explain to me why you feel you have the right to verbally and sexually harass a woman just for having different chromosomes and she is legally required to sit there and take it. | |
I like Extra Credits, because they at least give ideas on how to improve games. I think SmashLovesQuestTitan likes it because Jim's show is more of a rant while Extra Credits is more structured and informative. EC will say that what they think is an opinion, while Jim is more "My word is fact, and you're wrong for disagreeing with me. Since I'm always right that makes me someone you should worship." | |
I don't watch the show because I find him annoying and narcissistic. | |
EC make actual serious suggestions. Jim is just doing in for entertainment and even if he happens to be right hes just telling people what they want to hear. | |
I vote EC, for the poll. First thing I noticed about the thread is how everyone feels talked down to by EC, which doesn't actually have anything to do with what the poll says. While I 'kinda' like Jim, he is VERY opinionated and impartiality is important in serious discussion. He is also rather sensationalist. Anyone else get the feeling that people who feel as though they are talked down to don't actually get EC? Or at least something along those lines, its not terribly difficult to 'get' it after all. I also have the feeling that anybody on the internet who ever asserts an opinion is instantly labeled negatively, in this case 'pretentious' (which is being used incorrectly, or at least inappropriately far too often in this thread).
While your ad hominem attitude is pretty amusing, you are in fact incorrect about both your assumptions. While Jim being a 'gamer first' could technically be true, then it'd be true for nearly all gaming journalists. None of the EC crew are actually journalists, though. Sorry your getting spammed, but that's what being angry and irreverent on the first page get you. | |
You didn't understand what I was saying. She isn't legally required to sit there and take it. By not listening to it, she is taking her own right of exposure away, which is a part of free speech. Freedom of speech works two ways. And by taking away her ability to listen to what I say, you're infringing hers and mine. Now, as regards to why i have the right to insult her if I wanted to. Because my civil or human, whichever you prefer, constitutionally granted right of universal freefom of expression and speech allows me to do so. That's why. | |
Personally,I like Jim sterling, he's the guy that sits down and plays the games with you, he's right there, and gets mad bout things that make you a gamer mad. You can tell he's passionate about games, and the games that he plays...he's a gamer just like us. I find so many of his points valid, and insightful. I love this 'argue immaturity with more immaturity', and his wonderful 'thank god for me'. He's always entertaining, and I agree with him most of the time. Extra Credits all ways felt like that guy standing behind you as you play the games, sipping on a latte and telling you how you should think and feel about something. Often times EC felt like a lecture, or it felt like I was being 'told', and talked down to. The show just never appealed to me really. ...but that's just my 2 copper. | |
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My question in response to your statement is why do you think those games are so popular?