Who should the industry pay attention to?
Jim sterling
21% (451)
21% (451)
Extra credits
38.8% (833)
38.8% (833)
Both
30% (645)
30% (645)
non
4.5% (96)
4.5% (96)
"thank god for me"
5.3% (113)
5.3% (113)
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Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

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Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

SaneAmongInsane:
Theres a fucking mute button for a reason. Just because people elect not to use it... ah fuck who cares.

Excuses excuses. A mute button doesn't make the problems go away. It just enables bad behavior.

"Yeah, I know my neighbor regularly beats his wife, but if I close the blinds, then I don't have to see it!"

That's a bad analogy, do you want a better one?

"My Grandad likes shouting racist slurs. So we put him in a room where no one could hear him."

That's right next to the street where other people may or may not be able to hear him.

Extra Credits, has a terrible way of lying. It has been two years....two years and they still don't even have half of the "upcoming episodes" list filled out. Seriously every episode now is just something about how video games are Gods or a silly frequently asked questions one. They were cool when they were here, but now they are just lame. Jim on the other hand is my favorite Anglo-American fellow here.

EC shows me a new side of gaming almost every week. Jim either states the obvious or is simply wrong.

I do agree that EC latest episodes havent been all that good tho, and than Jim gets a bit better almost every week (sometimes his fuck ups are epic).

But the industry should really pay attention to us, we are the ones that know better, we are the ones that care enough to spend our time trying to improve their product, and we are not even getting paid to do it.

Devoneaux:

Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

Excuses excuses. A mute button doesn't make the problems go away. It just enables bad behavior.

"Yeah, I know my neighbor regularly beats his wife, but if I close the blinds, then I don't have to see it!"

That's a bad analogy, do you want a better one?

"My Grandad likes shouting racist slurs. So we put him in a room where no one could hear him."

That's right next to the street where other people may or may not be able to hear him.

Nope, it's a sound proof room (assuming everyone online is smart enough to work a mute button.)

So everyones a winner, the racist old coot get's to vent his frustrations and no one has to hear them.

I enjoy both of them. I find neither of them to be pretentious or annyoing, and I'd very much like if they continued doing what they do.

FFHAuthor:
I used to be very into Extra Credits and it did have a lot of extremely good information on it, but there's a difference between looking at your viewers as people who are interested in being educated, and people who are ignorant fools. Too often EC's presentation has been very much based along the lines of them viewing the audience as a group of fools who they have decided to enlighten, rather than a group that they're presenting information and theories too.

They've got a lot of high minded concepts and ideals about gaming, but they're on a different level, which I can understand, but the fact is they feel that they're better than the average gamer and that they don't need to regard us ordinary decent gamers as anything less than an unwashed and drooling mass who should be despised for feeding into the bad issues that the games industry is filled with. It often feels like they're looking at us and saying 'this is your fault, you need to change because we know better than you'.

Jim says a lot of the same issues, but he's not speaking from some mountaintop (despite the god complex joke he has going) he has the pure and simple message that he's one of us, he's a regular gamer, he's just normal and he's talking about issues that we're concerned about and bringing in information that we might not be familiar about, plus he's spurring conversations about issues that might not be in our heads.

Jim is the buddy you know saying 'Man, did you hear about this?'
EC is the stuck up boss saying 'You need to do this.'

I don't really get that feel from the show. Could you provide some examples of what you mean?

Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

Abandon4093:

That's a bad analogy, do you want a better one?

"My Grandad likes shouting racist slurs. So we put him in a room where no one could hear him."

That's right next to the street where other people may or may not be able to hear him.

Nope, it's a sound proof room (assuming everyone online is smart enough to work a mute button.)

Except at some point, it has to just be easier to lock him in that room forever and never let him out. Why bother putting up with even a second of hateful bile from some punk kid who refuses to adjust himself? Better to ban him so that nobody ever has to put up with it for even a minuscule amount of time.

So everyones a winner, the racist old coot get's to vent his frustrations and no one has to hear them.

type "hypocrite" into know your meme.

EC > JS

I enjoy both, I think a lot of people on the Escapist find EC 'pretentious' because they are drooling morons who would find the most basic theoretical concept hard to understand.

HERP DERP I'M A RETARD.

Elamdri:

FFHAuthor:
I used to be very into Extra Credits and it did have a lot of extremely good information on it, but there's a difference between looking at your viewers as people who are interested in being educated, and people who are ignorant fools. Too often EC's presentation has been very much based along the lines of them viewing the audience as a group of fools who they have decided to enlighten, rather than a group that they're presenting information and theories too.

They've got a lot of high minded concepts and ideals about gaming, but they're on a different level, which I can understand, but the fact is they feel that they're better than the average gamer and that they don't need to regard us ordinary decent gamers as anything less than an unwashed and drooling mass who should be despised for feeding into the bad issues that the games industry is filled with. It often feels like they're looking at us and saying 'this is your fault, you need to change because we know better than you'.

Jim says a lot of the same issues, but he's not speaking from some mountaintop (despite the god complex joke he has going) he has the pure and simple message that he's one of us, he's a regular gamer, he's just normal and he's talking about issues that we're concerned about and bringing in information that we might not be familiar about, plus he's spurring conversations about issues that might not be in our heads.

People have yet to do so, so it would be silly to expect them to actually back up their opinions this late in the game.
Jim is the buddy you know saying 'Man, did you hear about this?'
EC is the stuck up boss saying 'You need to do this.'

I don't really get that feel from the show. Could you provide some examples of what you mean?

Capitano Segnaposto:

Abandon4093:

Capitano Segnaposto:

Oh good lord I hate when people do this. Their OPINIONS are WRONG?

Surely you see the logical fallacy in that, right?

In my opinion the moon is made of cheese.

The TV has little people inside that act out all of them shows, the big bulky bit at the back is where they change clothes.

Tooth fillings allow the government to transmit radiowaves into our brains to control us.

And drinking goats blood will make me immortal.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just can't stand when people use that argument. Of course opinions can be factually incorrect, i.e. WRONG!

I know it's slightly different with opinions on subjective matters such as art. But there are still levels of validity to any opinion.

Very true, yet the context of which the poster I had quoted originally had used was incorrect. How would you have worded it differently if you were to take my place?

I'm sorry I don't get what you're saying.

Smash said what EC say is Bullshit.

You said that can't be so because opinions can't be wrong. Or well, you alluded to saying that.

If I were you wanted to refute what smash said I'd just have said 'everyones entitled to their opinions' or something.

But personally I agree with him, I think EC are horribly pretentious and I find myself disagreeing with everything they say.

Not sure if troll thread or just a bunch of dumb posters.

^^What the dude said ^^

Jim's show offers very little insight, and often I feel that he doesn't really have enough material for his episodes, with the same point hammered in over and over again. He's had some fun ones, but overall the style of humor isn't really me.

Extra Credits, on the other hand, is usually well written and researched. They've offered some really interesting stuff with actual insight from time to time.

ChupathingyX:
EC came off as way too preachy to me and they always thought what they were saying was right.

If we were having a discussion, I would certainly hope you though your opinion valid. If they didn't advocate what they thought was right, they'd be trolls, not commentators.

Hookah:
I enjoy both, I think a lot of people on the Escapist find EC 'pretentious' because they are drooling morons who would find the most basic theoretical concept hard to understand.

HERP DERP I'M A RETARD.

/Agree

Pretentious - Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

The Extra Credits guys seem academic, high-concept and self-righteous "yes", but in my opinion they are ultimately well-meaning. I would suggest that they aren't just making episodes to impress teh interwebz.

Jim has really improved too, and is consistently entertaining and informative.

Yes, I went for EC in the end, but Jim deserves credit too.

Devoneaux:

Abandon4093:

Devoneaux:

That's right next to the street where other people may or may not be able to hear him.

Nope, it's a sound proof room (assuming everyone online is smart enough to work a mute button.)

So everyones a winner, the racist old coot get's to vent his frustrations and no one has to hear them.

Except at some point, it has to just be easier to lock him in that room forever and never let him out. Why bother putting up with even a second of hateful bile from some punk kid who refuses to adjust himself? Better to ban him so that nobody ever has to put up with it for even a minuscule amount of time.

Why bother? The mute button works fine and you don't have to go banning people because they naffed you off.

I don't understand. What exactly is Jim's position on fragging? How does it differ from EC?

Devoneaux:

SaneAmongInsane:

Devoneaux:

Excuses excuses. A mute button doesn't make the problems go away. It just enables bad behavior.

"Yeah, I know my neighbor regularly beats his wife, but if I close the blinds, then I don't have to see it!"

Dude that isn't remotely the same thing.

If I have someone bothering me, and I don't wish to be bothered by it, I mute and I'm not longer bothered. That isn't the same as ignoring a mugging on the sidewalk because I don't want to be involved.

To use your example, muting someone is like the Wife leaving her abusive husband because she doesn't wish to be further abused.

...like really, WTF?

you can mute a person, but that person doesn't go away, other people will still have to put up with him. At the end of the day, a report function would be vastly better to the current system in place that does little more than enable poor behavior. Get it? Just because you don't see the link doesn't mean the scenarios aren't related.

All those people has the same option/chance to mute him. They choose not to. So no, I don't get it.

Also a lot of these sites, and Xbox Live do have report buttons... again, the majority just plain don't use them.

him over there:

ThePenguinKnight:
The industry should listen to us. But if I had to choose I'd say Jim.

Thread winner right here everybody, we can go home now.

What's there to say that hasn't already been said? Would you rather I jolt down a paragraph or two to further explain what everyone else has but in slightly different wording?

Krion_Vark:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Another thing: Jim Sterling is a gamer first, journalist second. (There, I edited it, can you annoying folks leave me alone now? Find someone else to spam.) Extra Credits are games journalists. Big difference.

James is actually a game designer/teacher. The artist whose name escapes me right now. Is a video game artist. Dan not quite sure what he is exactly. So yeah their is a big difference between them and Jim Sterling. But they aren't game journalists.

He's an animator at pixar, I think, don't hold me to that

Wow. There's a ton of hate going around for Extra Credits. Jim is a great guy and entertaining to be sure, and EC is fantastic for finding anything and everything about the "big picture" of games. Posts from people like SmashLovesTitanQuest makes it seem like the EC personally attacked them. Which is ridiculous. I mean, come on guys, it's one thing to dislike something, but to completely discredit it as something with no value whatsoever is another.

MrHide-Patten:
I still find the communities attitude towards EC funny. When they were on the escapist, everyone praised the earth they walked on and when they left any praise seemed to follow suite. Now Jim is now the appointed messiah of the Escapist Community.

Either way I think both parties have valid opinions and ideas, but if anything Jim sometimes feels a bit too tongue in cheek if that makes any sense.

Pretty much this.

OT: Extra Credits, they're less annoying.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Jim Sterling has just about everything nailed down. I know a lot of people hate the guy but I very rarely disagree with him. For all his joking around with his God complex and what not, hes probably the most sensible content producer on this site.

Extra Credits on the other hand? Fuck EC. Thats all I am saying.

As for immaturity on xbox live specifically, you can mute people. I never understand the problem with minor online harassment. Some guy hitting on you in Facebook? You have a block button. Some kid on xbox live calling you a nigger jew? Bring up the scoreboard, scroll down to his name and press X. Problem solved.

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

I like both, but I voted for EC. I just like them a bit more.

Tho I don't really see a reason to compare them.
They have some similarities, but they are different shows for the most part.

Jim is all about ranting and showing what is wrong right now and possible solutions.
EC is all about an academic approach to problems, possible solutions and what the gaming industry/community could be.

So, they only are similar in 1 out of 3 points.
But then again, Jim has a childish viewpoint most of the times. Fighting insults with insults won't bring you anywhere.
And way to go with misunderstanding the EC solution. The auto-mute would only kick in if you are muted most of the times. Not always. Also, everyone who wants to listen to you can just unmute you.

Why should I, a constructive part of the community go out of my way to mute half of the online people. Shouldn't I be rewarded and them punished instead of the other way around? If someone wants to listen to them, they can just unmute them.

Also, I don't think it was meant to be a permanent auto-mute. First time you cross the average line, you get auto-muted for 1 day. Next time 3, than a week, after that 4... etc.

Also, they didn't suggest to take the messaging system completely away. Just so that you can't send messages to people who aren't your friends. You still can communicate with friends.

And 1 really important thing that was ignored. They never said it should be implemented as it is. They are trowing ideas to us and we can change them, combine, make new ideas. EC was always open for discussion and suggestions.

tl.dr.
Don't exagarate all tha bad sides of EC. Everyone has them, so do they. All in all, they are good.
And you can enjoy both since they are rather different shows.

I think Extra Credits has the getting stuff done part down better than Jim, I think. They have more of a call to action to get people to actually DO something to improve the game industry (getting people to contact devs about certain issues, giving people information on how they can enter and be active in the games industry, etc). And while Jim does present a lot of valid points which I think the games industry should listen to, he's still just another person writing his opinions on the Internet. Again, all valid opinions, but I think positivity tends to get more done than negativity in the long run.

FFHAuthor:
Snippage.

I was gonna say something to the same effect, but I think you probably said it all better.

Fuggit, I'll try anyway...

I still think that back when the EC gang were simply on YouTube they had better videos simply because they didn't seem as "high-brow" and "snooty", if you will. In short, they were "real" and talked about real subjects. Then they came here and everything was still cool.

Then they started doing their episodes involving games being "artsy", so to speak. Once that hit, their episodes started appearing to carry this unspoken message akin to "if you don't like 'artistic' games, you're a fucking idiot" (complete with obligatory mentions of SotC, Ico, Braid, etc; I forget what episode it was). After that I was like "Okay... fuck this." Sometimes, I wanna, say, ponder my own place in the universe, and sometimes I just wanna drink cheap booze and shoot someone in the dick.

Aside: I've actually met James Portnow (is that how you spell it?) in person, and while he doesn't seem all that bad a guy, he definitely has a distinctive arrogance about him. The man has great hair, though.

Having said all that, I find Jim Sterling to be a fine addition to my Monday routine, especially since he cleaned up his messages and deliveries - like most, once upon a time I thought he was a colossal dick. But he's a colossal dick I can enjoy.

Wait... that didn't sound right...

Abandon4093:

Capitano Segnaposto:

Abandon4093:

In my opinion the moon is made of cheese.

The TV has little people inside that act out all of them shows, the big bulky bit at the back is where they change clothes.

Tooth fillings allow the government to transmit radiowaves into our brains to control us.

And drinking goats blood will make me immortal.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just can't stand when people use that argument. Of course opinions can be factually incorrect, i.e. WRONG!

I know it's slightly different with opinions on subjective matters such as art. But there are still levels of validity to any opinion.

Very true, yet the context of which the poster I had quoted originally had used was incorrect. How would you have worded it differently if you were to take my place?

I'm sorry I don't get what you're saying.

Smash said what EC say is Bullshit.

You said that can't be so because opinions can't be wrong. Or well, you alluded to saying that.

If I were you wanted to refute what smash said I'd just have said 'everyones entitled to their opinions' or something.

But personally I agree with him, I think EC are horribly pretentious and I find myself disagreeing with everything they say.

Oh that is what Smash had said? I thought he was saying that EC's Opinions of the Mass Effect 3 ending were wrong. This is why I posted the "Their opinions can't be wrong" post. I may have gotten two threads intermingled in my own mind. I am sorry about that. Sorry to you as well Smash, if you are even reading this thread anymore.

Because what the industry really needs is to pay attention to one narcissistic, self aggrandizing, egocentric loudmouth with a fetish for swearing, obviously. But I'd prefer James Portnow's somewhat elitist view on games than the views of "I wish people would love me" Jim Sterling. The EC guys might occasionally forget that the medium of discussion is games, and that one of the prime principles of games is that they're fun, but at least they reasonably embrace reality, instead of swearing constantly about having to enter an x digit code for various things in game or in the menu around a game.

The EC guys might have that "arrogant professor" vibe, which I'm used to since I've had many professors who looked down on me, but at least they're not complaining about petty bullshit that takes five minutes out of our lives that we might enjoy a developed experience.

There was one video that made me DESPISE extra credits to the point where I can never take them seriously again, which is ironic because I used to hold alot of respect for them. That one video about joint gaming or something where they think its a good idea for someone playing 5 minutes on an iphone to give a gamer a serious advantage on a full retail game.

That's even worse then day one dlc on the disk, that is a horrid idea. They want to further butcher games and give exclusive perks to some, that the other gamers who do not want to have to play or make their friends / family play stupid iphone mini games to get things that others will never get. Why should they get a serious advantage?

I think that video was done only to try to improve their karma with casuals. They seem to think of themselves as a malevolent jesus of gaming and it really angers me with their arrogance.

I'll take the guy who speaks honestly and goes for the Black Addler type comedy then some douchebag thanks.

You people are all missing the real problem with EC - the f***ing annoying voices they use! it sounds like some 5-year-old in a helium-filled room talking into a voice changer! I only watched one episode a while ago, so I'm not sure if they have changed this, but seriously, that s*** is painful! Other than that, I have no comment on the actual intellectual comment of the show, but I do know this: We should all Thank God for Jim Sterling.

As to people suggesting draconian restrictions on online communication in gaming; Seriously? You are really THAT offended by some stupid 12-year-old who just learned what f** means that you would destroy all in-game communication or (in some cases) give up online gaming altogether? That is pathetic.

No really opinion here, but holy shit, since when does everyone hate EC?
..Also, I have yet to see an explanation for the "pretentious" line...I've never felt that they were pretentious at all.

Zeckt:
There was one video that made me DESPISE extra credits to the point where I can never take them seriously again, which is ironic because I used to hold alot of respect for them. That one video about joint gaming or something where they think its a good idea for someone playing 5 minutes on an iphone to give a gamer a serious advantage on a full retail game.

That's even worse then day one dlc on the disk, that is a horrid idea. They want to further butcher games and give exclusive perks to some, that the other gamers who do not want to have to play or make their friends / family play stupid iphone mini games to get things that others will never get. Why should they get a serious advantage?

I think that video was done only to try to improve their karma with casuals. They seem to think of themselves as a malevolent jesus of gaming and it really angers me with their arrogance.

I'll take the guy who speaks honestly and goes for the Black Addler type comedy then some douchebag thanks.

Yeah, that's the "Transgaming" episode which pretty much bit the bullet for me as well. Since then, it's hard to take anything they said seriously.

I've never had much against EC, and never felt talked down to, only that I agree with them about 50-50 of the cases they present. Whereas I agree with Jim on quite a lot more, maybe 80-20.

Jim's presentation has improved a lot since the early days, from language to content, but still not quite enough to be taken as seriously as EC perhaps, which is a shame. Some of the messages and arguments that he puts out I feel should really be heard by more, but probably won't get all that far.

And he seems big on keeping things fair for the consumer, which is dwindling in significance these days (I get the feeling that modern gamers now who tell other gamers who complain about things to "suck it up princess" and keep taking it, well maybe they just didn't play games when it was a matter of buying it, taking it home and playing the f'ing thing). Ok, it can do without the portrayal of publishers so strongly as greedy, evil corporate crybabies (that voice he does pisses me off, but I get pissed off when anyone does that), but I guess some people need that in order to get the picture, I dunno.

majora13:

James Ennever:

majora13:
Extra Credits tends to talk down to their audience quite a lot. That said, I liked their solution to this problem. The first one, about the default mute. Taking away the ability to message other players seems pretty draconian.

Xbox live is a nasty, immature community, and I've abandoned most online gaming because of that. Microsoft really should start taking steps to clean it up.

ECs solution, which I think would ruin multiplayer is to factor in A mute average. What if you are having A bad day and you trash talk the opisition? according to them you should be permenantly ostrisised, it is a dangerous idea.

I understand their solution. It would not necessarily penalize a bad day, or even the occasional bad day. There would be a threshold, and it would have to be fairy lenient to account for what you're talking about. Also you would have to factor in the risk that some players might mute people just out of spite. There are issues, but I think they could be worked out with a thoughtful implementation. It would spare us all listening to immature assholes every time we start a game, and I think that's a pretty worthwhile effort.

I'm sorry, I just have to: *Ostracized*

I mute just because I don't want to hear other people. I go online to kill them, not converse.

both Jim and EC have good ideas, i see no reason why one should be ignored over the other. following one set of ideas is why things are as they are right now after all :p

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