CryTek turns from Piracy to Used Sales - Next-gen used games block "would be absolutely awesome"

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Dandark:
Then again, they are owned by EA.

They are? Good, now I have two reasons not to buy their stuff.

Rack:

Clearly it hasn't had that conversion rate applied ontop of it because the maths would make absolutely no sense that way. The linguistics are a bit tricky so can easily be forgiven, I'd originally read it as converting 25% of customers into paying customers of your product rather than simply paying customers who are potential conversion to sales. However you see the language though a 25% conversion to sales means you convert every single pirate into a paying customer (even the ones that can't afford games at any price) and then convince all of those pirates to buy about 5 times as many games as other consumers. However you slice it that's absolute insanity.

What the fuck are you talking about. He said if 25% of pirates bought his game that would be an extra 1million sales. Its basic fucking math how do you not understand that?

Buretsu:
You know what would be awesome?

If game companies didn't want to block used game sales AND still offer paid DLC. Hell, maybe even release a code with a New copy of a game to get a discounted price on the DLC. That way you can still make money from the used buyers and not alienate the few people who buy new.

And maybe we could reform the used game market to be less parasitic and evil. Stop companies like Gamestop from absolutely fucking GOUGING consumers AND game companies by buying used games for $5-20, then turning around and selling them for $55, and keeping 100% of the profit for themselves.

But, no, no, it's easier to bitch and screw than fix and woo...

Those are some really good ideas. Unfortunately, we still have to wait for the games industry to pull their heads out of the asses in which they live, or at least spend a majority of their summers.

I could present a well balanced and considered argument here.
Rather I fear this to be relevant: fuck you Crytek.

TheKasp:

Tuesday Night Fever:
Escapist - There can be only snip

maxmanrules:
Escapist 2 - The Endsnipping

Scabadus:
Escapist - The Shortening

So, would one of you gents point me towards the high street stores that promote used sales of books and music instead of the new products? Because in gaming I can point you the the blight that is the reason why those guys harp on used sales = GameStop, GAME and others.

Bonuscookies for the one who gets the snip reference.

I don't know how expansive these franchises are but... As for CDs and movies, we have The Exchange. For books, we have Half Priced Books. Exchange stores and second hand stores are everywhere, not to mention the small businesses.

Das Boot:

Rack:

Clearly it hasn't had that conversion rate applied ontop of it because the maths would make absolutely no sense that way. The linguistics are a bit tricky so can easily be forgiven, I'd originally read it as converting 25% of customers into paying customers of your product rather than simply paying customers who are potential conversion to sales. However you see the language though a 25% conversion to sales means you convert every single pirate into a paying customer (even the ones that can't afford games at any price) and then convince all of those pirates to buy about 5 times as many games as other consumers. However you slice it that's absolute insanity.

What the fuck are you talking about. He said if 25% of pirates bought his game that would be an extra 1million sales. Its basic fucking math how do you not understand that?

Because it's insanely stupid maths built on either asinine assumptions or rampant ignorance. 4 million people went into this a movie store, if I can convince just 25% of them to buy T-shirts then I can sell a million Crysis T-shirts.

Either you've forgotten that not all people who bought t-shirts will buy your t-shirt, or you've set your assumptions on how many will cretinously high.

IF this means that my copy of Fighting Game X is seen as a used copy when I bring it to my mate to play.
And thus craps all over local multiplayer even more, I'm out.

Rack:

Either you've forgotten that not all people who bought t-shirts will buy your t-shirt, or you've set your assumptions on how many will cretinously high.

Neither actually its you that seems to have forgotten something. You are forgetting that those four million people were already interested in your product and converting 25% of them into paying customers for your product means 25% more sales.

You are trying to apply irrelevant math to random numbers that were thrown out there as examples.

CrazyBlaze:
Hey my anti-secuirty is good for three computers so yeah. It works that way. Also, second hand books, movies and music all would like to raise their hands in the air about this. So yeah. Learn about other industries that work similar to yours.

Different economic systems!

Unless you can find a way to make AAA games for 50 grand and negligible marketing or have multi-tiered income like tv or film stop using these examples. They just don't work.

Vault101:

DRM breeds piracy

Because before DRM there was no piracy ...
Excuses excuses.

Dexter111:

Asked if he'd like to see Microsoft and Sony introduce anti-used game measures, as has been rumoured for Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4, Hojengaard added:

"From a business perspective that would be absolutely awesome. It's weird that [second-hand] is still allowed because it doesn't work like that in any other software industries, so it would be great if they could somehow fix that issue as well."

great if they could fix that issue? The only issue I really see at play here is that the companies aren't trying to make deals with second-hand games dealers Gamestop so as to get a cut of their money. That's probably not going to happen though. A part of me is really curious to see what would happen if/when Sony and Microsoft try releasing consoles this coming generation that reject used games. That's the anarchic side of me who wants to see a video game crash (at least that's what the people who don't play on PCs or Nintendo consoles will call it).

Das Boot:

Rack:

Either you've forgotten that not all people who bought t-shirts will buy your t-shirt, or you've set your assumptions on how many will cretinously high.

Neither actually its you that seems to have forgotten something. You are forgetting that those four million people were already interested in your product and converting 25% of them into paying customers for your product means 25% more sales.

You are trying to apply irrelevant math to random numbers that were thrown out there as examples.

No, I'm trying to apply basic logic. To convert pirates into sales you need to convince them to stop pirating and then convince them to buy your game. Assuming a 25% conversion rate on either of these groups is beyond optimistic, but suggesting an overall 25% conversion rate is even possible, let alone qualifying it as "just" is just flat out stupidity,

Rack:

No, I'm trying to apply basic logic. To convert pirates into sales you need to convince them to stop pirating and then convince them to buy your game. Assuming a 25% conversion rate on either of these groups is beyond optimistic, but suggesting an overall 25% conversion rate is even possible, let alone qualifying it as "just" is just flat out stupidity,

Ah I see the problem, its that you dont know how to read.

TheMightyAtrox:

TheKasp:

Tuesday Night Fever:
Escapist - There can be only snip

maxmanrules:
Escapist 2 - The Endsnipping

Scabadus:
Escapist - The Shortening

So, would one of you gents point me towards the high street stores that promote used sales of books and music instead of the new products? Because in gaming I can point you the the blight that is the reason why those guys harp on used sales = GameStop, GAME and others.

Bonuscookies for the one who gets the snip reference.

I don't know how expansive these franchises are but... As for CDs and movies, we have The Exchange. For books, we have Half Priced Books. Exchange stores and second hand stores are everywhere, not to mention the small businesses.

It is an ok comparison if books had a cost of 20 million dollars to write (not print. Write). Used sales affect different media differently. Used car sales dont have the same effect on car sales as Used Shoe sales have on shoe sales. Every product must tackle their business differently. Movies got cinemas to get their profits back and then make it up in the videos afterwards. Games have well.... games. If a renting or liecence system is needed to keep the industry afloat, then that is the best solution. If they can convert 1% of 4 million pirated copies by making piracy more difficult, then that is 40000 copies of 30-50$ pumped back into paying for making games.

TheKasp:

Tuesday Night Fever:
Escapist - There can be only snip

maxmanrules:
Escapist 2 - The Endsnipping

Scabadus:
Escapist - The Shortening

So, would one of you gents point me towards the high street stores that promote used sales of books and music instead of the new products? Because in gaming I can point you the the blight that is the reason why those guys harp on used sales = GameStop, GAME and others.

Bonuscookies for the one who gets the snip reference.

Rofl. Your snips are hilarious.

+1

OT: I dislike people who call themselves "gamers" while still buying used game. I mean, sure, you are indeed playing games. But if someone wants to leach from the design and development aspect of the industry, I'd hardly call them my idea of a gamer. To me it'd be like someone saying they're a huge fan of a band, while they've only ever bought one CD and have pirated the rest. Sure, you are technically a fan, but I won't consider you one.

I don't like used game sales, but there's nothing illegal about it. I won't hate you for it, but I will certainly dislike your attitude (as I'm sure some will dislike mine, lol).

They can have my used games when they pry them from my cold, dead hands. I for one, love having a physical case and manual in my possession in addition to the game, but there is no way in hell I'm going to pay 60$ for a new game, unless I have the utmost confidence in the developers (like Rockstar or Valve). The fact that publishers keep devising new tricks to screw the consumer out of money (online passes, on-disc DLC) reveals what publishers truly care about, money. Which is totally fine, the ability to profit from capitalism is justified, but I feel that they shouldn't expect us to give up our options without them making sacrifices too. If the prices of games dropped in addition to publishers and developers ceasing all of this money-grubbing bullshit, then I might consider buying games for such a system. Hell, the system works great on steam (in my opinion), especially with all of the sales, free content and the like that accompany it. But this is coming from Valve, a company which makes games not just for the money, but because they enjoy making them and being able to share them with the world. It saddens me that used games could be eradicated, because that is what makes games personal in many cases. Just the ability to lend games to people or bring them over to someone's house is something that I've been doing my entire life since first getting an N64. Gaming as I used to know it is dying. I can't even name 10 games I know of these days that support split-screen play anyone. And frankly, that's a damn shame.

I am an unrepentant pirate, I pirate games all the time, I am the evil that is ruining the gaming industry. You see I have little money to buy games, the same goes for my friends, so when I buy a game and after I have finished plying it then I will lend it to my friend to play. They do the same for me. This saves us some money but obviously is a diabolic and underhand thing to do...we must be stopped at all costs.

Rack:

Das Boot:

Rack:

Either you've forgotten that not all people who bought t-shirts will buy your t-shirt, or you've set your assumptions on how many will cretinously high.

Neither actually its you that seems to have forgotten something. You are forgetting that those four million people were already interested in your product and converting 25% of them into paying customers for your product means 25% more sales.

You are trying to apply irrelevant math to random numbers that were thrown out there as examples.

No, I'm trying to apply basic logic. To convert pirates into sales you need to convince them to stop pirating and then convince them to buy your game. Assuming a 25% conversion rate on either of these groups is beyond optimistic, but suggesting an overall 25% conversion rate is even possible, let alone qualifying it as "just" is just flat out stupidity,

I too find it interesting that many in the industry are laboring under the assumption that if consumers were no longer able to buy used games, that they would start buying those games new or that if they were somehow able to magically stop piracy, those users would start paying.
Really, most gamers would probably just end up buying less games.

I do believe that there is a slump in the growth of the industry right now but they seem to want to blame the users rather than themselves, retailers, or platform developers.

maxmanrules:

+1

OT: I dislike people who call themselves "gamers" while still buying used game. I mean, sure, you are indeed playing games. But if someone wants to leach from the design and development aspect of the industry, I'd hardly call them my idea of a gamer. To me it'd be like someone saying they're a huge fan of a band, while they've only ever bought one CD and have pirated the rest. Sure, you are technically a fan, but I won't consider you one.

I don't like used game sales, but there's nothing illegal about it. I won't hate you for it, but I will certainly dislike your attitude (as I'm sure some will dislike mine, lol).

Er.... this comes across as a bit mad mate. Once property is purchased the original owner has no right to demand a further share of the sell on value...

Draech:

TheMightyAtrox:

TheKasp:

So, would one of you gents point me towards the high street stores that promote used sales of books and music instead of the new products? Because in gaming I can point you the the blight that is the reason why those guys harp on used sales = GameStop, GAME and others.

Bonuscookies for the one who gets the snip reference.

I don't know how expansive these franchises are but... As for CDs and movies, we have The Exchange. For books, we have Half Priced Books. Exchange stores and second hand stores are everywhere, not to mention the small businesses.

It is an ok comparison if books had a cost of 20 million dollars to write (not print. Write). Used sales affect different media differently. Used car sales dont have the same effect on car sales as Used Shoe sales have on shoe sales. Every product must tackle their business differently. Movies got cinemas to get their profits back and then make it up in the videos afterwards. Games have well.... games. If a renting or liecence system is needed to keep the industry afloat, then that is the best solution. If they can convert 1% of 4 million pirated copies by making piracy more difficult, then that is 40000 copies of 30-50$ pumped back into paying for making games.

We'd probably have an easier time comparing video games to movies. They both generally cost a lot of money to make and involve many people. They are both traded in and resold every day. I would bet you that the explosion of Netflix's popularity has decreased piracy in movies. I tend to wonder why Gamefly isn't more popular. This is the kind of thing that decreases piracy, among other things.

distortedreality:

Vault101:

DRM breeds piracy

No, it just gives pirates another excuse.

Piracy has been around a lot longer than DRM. I remember back when I was a kid, and there used to be little local meetups where everyone would bring their computers along and share games. I remember being able to buy pirated copies of games at markets. I'm talking about mid to late 80's here.

Please enter the third word from the second paragraph of the fifth page of your manual to proceed.

Res Plus:

maxmanrules:

+1

OT: I dislike people who call themselves "gamers" while still buying used game. I mean, sure, you are indeed playing games. But if someone wants to leach from the design and development aspect of the industry, I'd hardly call them my idea of a gamer. To me it'd be like someone saying they're a huge fan of a band, while they've only ever bought one CD and have pirated the rest. Sure, you are technically a fan, but I won't consider you one.

I don't like used game sales, but there's nothing illegal about it. I won't hate you for it, but I will certainly dislike your attitude (as I'm sure some will dislike mine, lol).

Er.... this comes across as a bit mad mate. Once property is purchased the original owner has no right to demand a further share of the sell on value...

You have misquoted me, it looks like you quoted someone who quoted me and deleted what they were quoting and left me as the person you were quoting.
If that makes any sense.
Anyway, I didn't say that, Grey Day For Elicia did.

distortedreality:

Piracy has been around a lot longer than DRM. I remember back when I was a kid, and there used to be little local meetups where everyone would bring their computers along and share games. I remember being able to buy pirated copies of games at markets. I'm talking about mid to late 80's here.

Then you're wrong. There WAS DRM then. It was just called "copy protection" and Midway (Makers of "Spy Hunter") had one that would break C64 disk drives (with legit copies).

dreadedcandiru99:

Dandark:
Then again, they are owned by EA.

They are? Good, now I have two reasons not to buy their stuff.

No, they're not.

maxmanrules:

Res Plus:

maxmanrules:

+1

OT: I dislike people who call themselves "gamers" while still buying used game. I mean, sure, you are indeed playing games. But if someone wants to leach from the design and development aspect of the industry, I'd hardly call them my idea of a gamer. To me it'd be like someone saying they're a huge fan of a band, while they've only ever bought one CD and have pirated the rest. Sure, you are technically a fan, but I won't consider you one.

I don't like used game sales, but there's nothing illegal about it. I won't hate you for it, but I will certainly dislike your attitude (as I'm sure some will dislike mine, lol).

Er.... this comes across as a bit mad mate. Once property is purchased the original owner has no right to demand a further share of the sell on value...

You have misquoted me, it looks like you quoted someone who quoted me and deleted what they were quoting and left me as the person you were quoting.
If that makes any sense.
Anyway, I didn't say that, Grey Day For Elicia did.

Oh, sorry mate. Quote fail on my part. Apologies.

Terminate421:
4 million pirates? Crytek don't deserve that.

Keep in mind half of those people were probably testing they're systems, there is also probably a percentage that already owned it on console, got a better computer and didn't want to buy it again. there are also more who never would have bought it anyway. after you take all that into account I doubt they have lost more than a million sales (still a lot but compared to the number they have sold it is not astronomical). I think people ignore other factors surrounding piracy and just look at the number too often

You know, he does have a point. From a business perspective, the cutting out of the used games market would be a good thing for publishers and developers. Sure, you lose some business to piracy, but you gain with the people who will buy new games instead of used.

Res Plus:

Oh, sorry mate. Quote fail on my part. Apologies.

All goods.

Das Boot:

Rack:

Clearly it hasn't had that conversion rate applied ontop of it because the maths would make absolutely no sense that way. The linguistics are a bit tricky so can easily be forgiven, I'd originally read it as converting 25% of customers into paying customers of your product rather than simply paying customers who are potential conversion to sales. However you see the language though a 25% conversion to sales means you convert every single pirate into a paying customer (even the ones that can't afford games at any price) and then convince all of those pirates to buy about 5 times as many games as other consumers. However you slice it that's absolute insanity.

What the fuck are you talking about. He said if 25% of pirates bought his game that would be an extra 1million sales. Its basic fucking math how do you not understand that?

Then give them reasons to buy your game, but don't punish your customers with useless DRM that gets cracked in days.

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