The World of Skyrim Means Nothing...

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Emiscary:
It's the freedom you're allowed when interacting with it that matters.

Honestly, was anybody all that attached to Skyrim as a setting?

And this is exactly where Skyrim fails. You're right, I never felt attached or even interested in Skyrim's world; but, Morrowind, now there was a place that I could get lost in and fucking love every second of it. Anyone who enjoyed Morrowind and didn't hate it right off the bat for stupid shit like the dice-rolling combat will tell you that Morrowind (specifically the land of Morrowind) had a magic to it that no Bethesda game since has captured.

SajuukKhar:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

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I think the limitations matter, but I wouldn't bring them up in comparing a mod to the base game.

I don't know where I am trying to lead this discussion exactly, I think for argument sake I'm over appreciating the technical side of game making when comparing a mod to a game. Enjoy both, I hope, but don't slag off the maker for doing something shoddily when a modder has build something up from the frame work which the original is made from, be happy that frame work was around for the modder to use!

(I feel silly sharing my opinion in this, it's a game...enjoy. hopefully the modders go on to be a part of making a game if they did a great job)

OT:yeah the world seems a bit dead to me, but the fantasy and exploring grand environments make it up to me. If the world was more life like I think many people would start hating reality more...

Wayneguard:

And this is exactly where Skyrim fails. You're right, I never felt attached or even interested in Skyrim's world; but, Morrowind, now there was a place that I could get lost in and fucking love every second of it. Anyone who enjoyed Morrowind and didn't hate it right off the bat for stupid shit like the dice-rolling combat will tell you that Morrowind (specifically the land of Morrowind) had a magic to it that no Bethesda game since has captured.

whats funny is that I loved Morrowind's world, hated Oblivion because it didn't have the same magic, and LOVE Skyrim's world because it does have the same magic.

SajuukKhar:
did I EVER say that having a crappy development cycle gives a 100% write-off for its problems? no.

No, but you are saying having a crappy development cycle excuses anything. Which is simply not true.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
No, but you are saying having a crappy development cycle excuses anything. Which is simply not true.

I never said that once, dont make shit up.

pure.Wasted:

As long as it's fun. Exciting. Interesting. Thought-provoking. Whatever. Then, absolutely! If the game developers can find a way to make going to sleep and worrying about locks getting picked fun, why in the world would any of this stuff be a bad thing?

And if you can think of a reason why a world with more meaningful interactions with and amongst NPCs might be a bad thing, I'll eagerly hear you out.

Legitimately anything, if done well, is good. Well, depending on taste.
Mass Effect doesn't count, as it's pretty much continuity porn. It's damn good though.
There's no reason against more meaningful NPC interaction, besides technology and resources. For genuine interaction to happen, truly intelligent AI is a must.

SajuukKhar:

Wayneguard:

And this is exactly where Skyrim fails. You're right, I never felt attached or even interested in Skyrim's world; but, Morrowind, now there was a place that I could get lost in and fucking love every second of it. Anyone who enjoyed Morrowind and didn't hate it right off the bat for stupid shit like the dice-rolling combat will tell you that Morrowind (specifically the land of Morrowind) had a magic to it that no Bethesda game since has captured.

whats funny is that I loved Morrowind's world, hated Oblivion because it didn't have the same magic, and LOVE Skyrim's world because it does have the same magic.

To each his own then. I just never felt the same wonder in Skyrim that I did in Morrowind. It might have something to do with the fact that I had to play on a normal definition tv for my first playthrough (small text and all).

Emiscary:

And as for the elaborate torture scenarios described above? You don't *NEED* to be Ramsay Bolton, but when it comes to characters who've given me personal cause to be pissed off? The one's who've kidnapped me, harmed my loved ones, that kinda thing? Give me the chance to savor the moment. I don't need to parade my enemies down the town square, but I'd *love* an opportunity to hear them beg a little after I've left them in a broken heap on the floor. Also the "money shot" in scenes like that are a perfect opportunity to include some gore in the game. When I'm upset with someone, I don't mind watching a blade pass through their esophagus slowly. Point of fact I kind of enjoy it.

Fucking YES! In Saint's Row 2, the best part of the game was when Johnny viciously beats Shogo and buries him alive. I was disappointed with Fable II's end which had Lucian kill your wife and kids (whatever) and your pooch (BASTARD) and then if you wait for him to finish monologue-ing, he gets shot by fucking Reaver. I was expecting an epic fantasy boss fight with (maybe) quick time events showing my character beating the fuck out of Lucian, but nope. I guess what I'm saying is: I wouldn't mind a torture simulator, given the right context.

The game is big, and you can technically do alot of stuff in it, but nothing really matters. Besides, you don't REALLY have freedom, you have the illusion of freedom, you can do what the game tells you to. For one, you can kill almost everyone in a hold, then what? There's a few immortal people who can't die, you leave them, but then nothing happens... RDR has more meaning behind it than this, if you cause trouble people are going to come get you.

Freedom isn't to choose to obey character A or B, that's not freedom IMO. Freedom would be to either help either A or B, or kill them and rob their corpses just for the heck of it. If I could say anything to Bethesda it would be this, the world doesn't have to be so damn big as long as there are meaningful things to do in it, all that copypasted stuff doesn't make it fun even if it is in a big world.

I've actually tried to finish the story now, but the game keeps freezing on me. It's on the Ps3 version FYI, so I keep wondering why make a version on a system they obviously can't handle, I feel kinda robbed for buying a broken game. Once again, "it's big so technical faults should be expected! IS NOT A VALID EXCUSE! Make it smaller, make it work, anyone stupid enough to choose a big world over actual working fun should be set on fire.

Emiscary:

The PC in an RPG is the ubermensch. He's a time traveling (by dint of save/load) immortal (by dint of respawn) unstoppable (by dint of persistence) badass (automatically). So stop forcing him to be a good boy and go along with the motions in the name of laziness/corner cutting. Let him off the damned leash already. You're so close as it is... you just need to tweak a few more things...

So what are you raving against exactly? Does the flimsy main questline constrict you in your freedom, is that it? Flimsy it is, but without it Skyrim would be nothing more than a glorified murder and looting simulator.

Is that what you call freedom? To the contrary, it's a reduction to meaninglessness.

There is no such thing as absolute freedom, not in the real nor in the virtual realm.

Actually I find it to be the other way round, I enjoy the setting and find the interaction a tad lacking. I've spent more time reading memes, listening to songs, and looking at pictures inspired by Skyrim than actually playing it.

No, I don't give a damn whether I can pick up that cheese wheel or not. Any world where I can climb a mountain at night and see the volumetric fog around the other mountain in the distance while a brilliant Aurora shines in the night sky, with noting but the soothing sound of fresh snow blown in the wind around me, is a damn good selling point for a game.

NinjaDeathSlap:

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

Well, I liked the Dark Elf Girl and the Scottish Dude from the Thieves Guild. Granted I can't remember their names but I liked them. The Argonian from the Dark Brotherhood was a pretty cool guy as well.

I do like the fact that Skyrim has so much more freedom than other RPG's, but OP, if every fantasy RPG copied Skyrim's way of doing things, would that just make the formula as dull and stale as what you're complaining about? Different games, even from the same genre, have their own approaches to gameplay and storytelling, and more variety is always a good thing.

The Scottish guy is called Brynjolf.

In any case, I liked Jarl Bargruff (Jarl of Whiterun) and his court mage. Bargruff because he's a fairly honorable guy, and a steady ruler, which I respect. The court mage because he's entertaining in his condescension, and when Odaviing rebuffs him.

Skyrim is a game about you and the land. Not the player character; the player character has no real chance to express themselves. The actual characters are just sort of there. It's the player and the landscape they explore. I haven't gotten very far into the main quest, but I suspect Elder Scrolls would be suited to tell a story about exploration and discovery that exploits it's strongest attribute, not a generic (if functional) fantasty story about ho-hum characters that makes no attempts to hide that it's a distraction from the real magic (if the fact that you can ignore it for as long as you want is any indication).

If only they could combine the characters of Mass effect with a world like Skyrim.

there is always the option of not following the main quest line and just going out picking daisies, hunting deer, or killing bandits...

you can acctually get quite a games worth of play by simply walking the roads from hold capital to hold capital. delving into the random ruins you run across the way, doing quests from the helpless plebs in the poor towns you pass.

i just wished the carriage services in Skyrim worked like those in Red Dead Redemption...

fast travel if i want to, other wise, drive me around cus i just want to watch.

I also think that there was a lost potential with the whole High King thing... I think it would of been a much better experience if you could of backed a specific Jarl and make their armies take over all of Skyrim...

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

Cicero
Esbern
Ulfric
Tullius
Arngeir
Paarthunax

the list goes on.

Crono1973:

SajuukKhar:

Crono1973:
I guess I saw the ugliest 40% then.

Considering most of the intro sequence, and the path to whiterun, the very first part of the game , is mostly not in the mountains, and mostly snowless, you apparently quit in the first 5 minutes.

[sigh]

Really, this game isn't beautiful. The graphics look a little better than Oblivion on the highest settings. The colors are very dull.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=648
http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=11416

There ya go, I agree that the colors are too filtered, they did it in New Vegas and Fallout 3 too. Fallout 3 was the worst.

But my main concern with skyrim is the lack of character development. These perk trees are insanely lacking. SO I level up and what do I get? +10 hp, mana or stamina and +10 damage to a weapon type. Whoop de fucking doo! I do twice as much damage between level 0 and 100 in a skill. I'm not better at it the one stat just increases. When I've got lvl 100 blacksmithing I am not the best blackmisth in skyrim. I can get there by forging a thousand iron daggers. And as always the balance is completely out of whack. And worst of all is the lackluster characters and story. They are kidding themselves if they think they have dialogue in this game. I can't even refuse 75% of all quests! It's monologues, not dialogues. The dovahkiin is the most dull player insert imaginable.

Me? I just like having the freedom to loot a bandit. Countless games I've played, I always ask, "Man, I wish I can take his sword. Or his armor."

Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls games (also some other games I've played) gives me that freedom. It's about time!

Animyr:
Skyrim is a game about you and the land. Not the player character; the player character has no real chance to express themselves. The actual characters are just sort of there. It's the player and the landscape they explore. I haven't gotten very far into the main quest, but I suspect Elder Scrolls would be suited to tell a story about exploration and discovery that exploits it's strongest attribute, not a generic (if functional) fantasty story about ho-hum characters that makes no attempts to hide that it's a distraction from the real magic (if the fact that you can ignore it for as long as you want is any indication).

If only they could combine the characters of Mass effect with a world like Skyrim.

That's why I prefer the Fallout series, New Vegas in particular. I get a big open world to explore AND I can meet interesting characters to interact with and become attached to. I cared about Veronica, Corporal Betsy, and Julie Farkas. I cared about the Brotherhood of Steel, the Followers of the Apocalypse, and the Boomers. Hell, I even grew to care about the Khans, and I feared the Legion. All the characters were interesting and all the Factions were unique beyond what color their armor was. I could really find any characters I could muster a fuck to give if they bit the dust. Neither faction was interesting because they seemed identical aside from the colors they wore. Hell, I even got the army soldier mixed up with city guards because they're usually aren't immediately distinguishable.

SajuukKhar:

Rikomag132:

Wow, thanks for not spoiling the main storyline, I mean it's not like it would be really fucking annoying or anything.

Dude its been 6 months, get over it. Its like getting pissed if someone says Snape killed dumbledor.

It hardly matters, especially in a game like Skyrim. Many people don't bother with the main storyline for quite a while.
Just because it's been released a while ago doesn't make it okay to go all "HURR DURR X HAPPENS IN Y'S ENDING". Do you really think all the people who play Skyrim have finished the main storyline? No. And not everyone who play/read/watch/whatever something do it immediately when it comes out.

poiumty:
No, I don't give a damn whether I can pick up that cheese wheel or not. Any world where I can climb a mountain at night and see the volumetric fog around the other mountain in the distance while a brilliant Aurora shines in the night sky, with noting but the soothing sound of fresh snow blown in the wind around me, is a damn good selling point for a game.

This. I never had any problems "getting attached" to Skyrim's world - it sucks me right in and immerses me fully.

Jitters Caffeine:

That's why I prefer the Fallout series, New Vegas in particular. I get a big open world to explore AND I can meet interesting characters to interact with and become attached to. I cared about Veronica, Corporal Betsy, and Julie Farkas. I cared about the Brotherhood of Steel, the Followers of the Apocalypse, and the Boomers. Hell, I even grew to care about the Khans, and I feared the Legion. All the characters were interesting and all the Factions were unique beyond what color their armor was. I could really find any characters I could muster a fuck to give if they bit the dust. Neither faction was interesting because they seemed identical aside from the colors they wore. Hell, I even got the army soldier mixed up with city guards because they're usually aren't immediately distinguishable.

Haven't played New Vegas yet, but as I recall Fallout 3 wasn't much different from Skyrim characterwise.

Animyr:

Jitters Caffeine:

That's why I prefer the Fallout series, New Vegas in particular. I get a big open world to explore AND I can meet interesting characters to interact with and become attached to. I cared about Veronica, Corporal Betsy, and Julie Farkas. I cared about the Brotherhood of Steel, the Followers of the Apocalypse, and the Boomers. Hell, I even grew to care about the Khans, and I feared the Legion. All the characters were interesting and all the Factions were unique beyond what color their armor was. I could really find any characters I could muster a fuck to give if they bit the dust. Neither faction was interesting because they seemed identical aside from the colors they wore. Hell, I even got the army soldier mixed up with city guards because they're usually aren't immediately distinguishable.

Haven't played New Vegas yet, but as I recall Fallout 3 wasn't much different from Skyrim characterwise.

The characterization is much better in New Vegas. I like the people in Fallout 3 more than Skyrim because of how unique and well thought out the settlements you find are, it just makes the people that live in them so interesting.

Elmoth:
But my main concern with skyrim is the lack of character development. These perk trees are insanely lacking. SO I level up and what do I get? +10 hp, mana or stamina and +10 damage to a weapon type. Whoop de fucking doo! I do twice as much damage between level 0 and 100 in a skill. I'm not better at it the one stat just increases. When I've got lvl 100 blacksmithing I am not the best blackmisth in skyrim. I can get there by forging a thousand iron daggers. And as always the balance is completely out of whack. And worst of all is the lackluster characters and story. They are kidding themselves if they think they have dialogue in this game. I can't even refuse 75% of all quests! It's monologues, not dialogues. The dovahkiin is the most dull player insert imaginable.

Uhh weapon damage does not go up on level-up, and weapon perks are done in +%, not +10.

There are no perks that increase the stat associated with it, it's all +% added to the stat you have now.

Raising the stat increases the damage, and the perks add a +% onto the damage you do currently.
.
.
They rebalanced the smithing skill some time ago. The rate at which it increase is based on he price of the item, insted of all items giving the same EXP, so iron dagger smithing is exceedingly long, and terribly inefficient, compared to before.
.
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You can refuse almost all quests in the game............

Everything from the fetch quests half the populous gives you to Broynolf's "get into the thieves guild" mission. You can always say no.

there are several parts of the MQ were you can say no also.

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

maiq the liar
babbete (vampire girl in the dark brotherhood)
calixto

i win.

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

there are tons of memorable characters. Cicero, Nazier, Paarthurnax, Ulfric Stormcloak, and many more.

say what you want about Bioware

they make you give a shit

(not that Im comparing games mind, completly different camps)

Vault101:
say what you want about Bioware

they make you give a shit

(not that Im comparing games mind, completly different camps)

They're def the best at providing humor now, that's for sure.

Anthraxus:

Vault101:
say what you want about Bioware

they make you give a shit

(not that Im comparing games mind, completly different camps)

They're def the best at providing humor now, that's for sure.

intentially or unintentionally?

I've laughed anyhow

Javik: I thourght the one you call traynor was joking when she said I had to actually type words, this method of comunication is ineffcient

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

Parthanax was quite good, I also liked Ulfric Stormcloak even if he was a bit Nazi-y.

As for the setting itself, I loved the world of Skyrim...but I'm a massive Norse mythology nerd so there could be a reason for that.

Jynthor:
My only problem with the world is the characters.
Name me one memorable character you met in Skyrim.
Yeah, thought so.

I rather liked M'aiq.

Skyrim is full of interesting bits, unfortunately most of it is found in books which many players are unlikely to read.

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