Skyrim's combat and the action RPG genre

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Honestly, the combat in Skyrim is downright horrible. It's impressive to see that Bethesda still haven't figured out how to make proper combat, when you have games like Dark Messiah that made, compared to what Bethesda has been able to create with their Elder Scrolls series, amazing combat.
It disturbs me a big company like Bethesda, can't make better combat, especially after so many games. The only improvement from Skyrim to Oblivion was basically "mini-cut-scenes", that gave you a kill cam. Sure, kudos to Bethesda for making these, haven't played Skyrim over 100 hours like many others on this site, but I didn't see the same stuff repeated too much.

Another thing is, have you completed the Dark Brotherhood?
SPOILER(I apologize, don't know how to make one on this forum):
You get a horse. That horse kills dragons without losing life. Wow, so good combat.

My immersion is completely broken when my horse goes and kills a big bad dragon, then again, a bloody donkey seems to be able to kill a dragon in Skyrim.

The combat in Skyrim kinda ruined the game for me, I ended up sitting and exploiting the horrible AI, and horrible combat. Sure, it's a decent game, and you should play it, but for the love of God, don't play it because of the combat.

I think, if I ever have to teach someone how to make combat in a FPS game like the Elder Scrolls series, I will say "Take a look at Skyrim, and Oblivion, that's a way to do it, but it's an extremely bad one".

Skyrim's combat was one of the biggest disappointments of 2011, for me anyway.

...realtime combat in TES is the thing that turned me off of the series. Both Morrowind and Oblivion I bought late, but I tried like hell to like 'em. Unfortunately the menu systems, stat systems and most of all the combat got to me every time. Skyrim will be the same, I expect. I'll buy it someday, when it hits a bargain bin somewhere.

Oddly enough, turning it into gunplay, including a pause-stat roll attack option and switching it over to a more familiar RPG system fixed damn near the whole thing for me. Even managed to mod in some hotkeys that bypassed the unwieldy menu for some basic functions. Now, if only there were a way to remove the real-time attack option, make the AI smarter and take away NPCs' infinite ammo... hmmm...

Combat has improved with each game, but it still has some of the worst combat of any game I've ever played.

SajuukKhar:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I just wish someone at Bethesda would finally play Nehrim. That should help them...

Having played Nehrim I would like to know what was so great about it, it was fun yes, and did some stuff differently, but it really wasn't that much better in anything.

It did everything open world games have been doing wrong forever right.

Nift:
Honestly, the combat in Skyrim is downright horrible. It's impressive to see that Bethesda still haven't figured out how to make proper combat, when you have games like Dark Messiah that made, compared to what Bethesda has been able to create with their Elder Scrolls series, amazing combat.
It disturbs me a big company like Bethesda, can't make better combat, especially after so many games. The only improvement from Skyrim to Oblivion was basically "mini-cut-scenes", that gave you a kill cam. Sure, kudos to Bethesda for making these, haven't played Skyrim over 100 hours like many others on this site, but I didn't see the same stuff repeated too much.

Another thing is, have you completed the Dark Brotherhood?
SPOILER(I apologize, don't know how to make one on this forum):
You get a horse. That horse kills dragons without losing life. Wow, so good combat.

My immersion is completely broken when my horse goes and kills a big bad dragon, then again, a bloody donkey seems to be able to kill a dragon in Skyrim.

The combat in Skyrim kinda ruined the game for me, I ended up sitting and exploiting the horrible AI, and horrible combat. Sure, it's a decent game, and you should play it, but for the love of God, don't play it because of the combat.

I think, if I ever have to teach someone how to make combat in a FPS game like the Elder Scrolls series, I will say "Take a look at Skyrim, and Oblivion, that's a way to do it, but it's an extremely bad one".

Skyrim's combat was one of the biggest disappointments of 2011, for me anyway.

What? You're complaining that

being capable of killing a dragon "Breaks Immersion"? The only Dragon capable of surviving a cosmic force that powerful is Alduin himself, and that's only because they're 90o out-of-phase with each other.

They've made a larger number of changes to the combat that improved it: Timed blocking, the ability to bypass a held shield, dual-wielding, bashing/parrying, improvements in Armor calculation (I think), archery improvements, and improved perk effects are just off the top of my head.

Scow2:

They've made a larger number of changes to the combat that improved it: Timed blocking, the ability to bypass a held shield, dual-wielding, bashing/parrying, improvements in Armor calculation (I think), archery improvements, and improved perk effects are just off the top of my head.

And yet it still boils down to button-mashing. Go figure.

I enjoyed skyrims combat. I didn't think it was the best but if you take into account all the other things that they did like alchemy combo's, enchanting, smithing ect it was a lot to weigh out. In comparison to that chivalry game as they said it was a fps, so fast buying weapons, little plot and straight out action. That said Witcher 2 did a far better job but I found combat to be much slower and less merciful if you made a simple dodging mistake.

Edit: remember the witcher uses just a sword as his primary weapon, the axe and other simple weapons are rarely used so this should also be considered when skyrim had to deal with about 10-12 different types of weapons.

If anything I was more pissed off from the underpowered spells. They looked great but in no way were any where near as deadly as melee combat. It was a joke and the other thing I disliked was the removal of Hand to hand skill and Unarmored skill.

Scow2:

Nift:
Honestly, the combat in Skyrim is downright horrible. It's impressive to see that Bethesda still haven't figured out how to make proper combat, when you have games like Dark Messiah that made, compared to what Bethesda has been able to create with their Elder Scrolls series, amazing combat.
It disturbs me a big company like Bethesda, can't make better combat, especially after so many games. The only improvement from Skyrim to Oblivion was basically "mini-cut-scenes", that gave you a kill cam. Sure, kudos to Bethesda for making these, haven't played Skyrim over 100 hours like many others on this site, but I didn't see the same stuff repeated too much.

Another thing is, have you completed the Dark Brotherhood?
SPOILER(I apologize, don't know how to make one on this forum):
You get a horse. That horse kills dragons without losing life. Wow, so good combat.

My immersion is completely broken when my horse goes and kills a big bad dragon, then again, a bloody donkey seems to be able to kill a dragon in Skyrim.

The combat in Skyrim kinda ruined the game for me, I ended up sitting and exploiting the horrible AI, and horrible combat. Sure, it's a decent game, and you should play it, but for the love of God, don't play it because of the combat.

I think, if I ever have to teach someone how to make combat in a FPS game like the Elder Scrolls series, I will say "Take a look at Skyrim, and Oblivion, that's a way to do it, but it's an extremely bad one".

Skyrim's combat was one of the biggest disappointments of 2011, for me anyway.

What? You're complaining that

being capable of killing a dragon "Breaks Immersion"? The only Dragon capable of surviving a cosmic force that powerful is Alduin himself, and that's only because they're 90o out-of-phase with each other.

They've made a larger number of changes to the combat that improved it: Timed blocking, the ability to bypass a held shield, dual-wielding, bashing/parrying, improvements in Armor calculation (I think), archery improvements, and improved perk effects are just off the top of my head.

Honestly, then, no matter what lore you put behind it, it's pretty freaking dumb that you meet a dragon, jump off your horse, go to try and kill the dragon, OH WAIT - THE HORSE KILLS IT FOR YOU.

A game should be designed around good gameplay, and not lore.
A horse killing a dragon, no matter how uber leet this horse is in some story book, broke whatever fun I had with combat, which in other words ruined whatever fun I had with one of the main things in Skyrim's gameplay.
They could maybe make it stand passive, not caring, instead of making it complete the game for you.
Another thing is, now I know, as you pointed out, this horse is apparently uberleet and stuff, but at least make it lose health, so when it "dies" it just disappears for a while. That's just a random thought by the way, but it might just spice things up a tiny bit, so Skyrim becomes less of a mouse-click spamming, or after you've completed the Dark Brotherhood,a horse-watching adventure.

You're the bloody DragonBorn, you should fight yourself, not have some black horse do it for you, no matter how overpowered that said horse is in the mighty book of Elder Scrolls lore.

play on expert, the horse does squat damage anyway and if you like waiting 10 minutes to kill a horse then that is your problem.

If you are hiding and letting your horse to the work then you are your own worst enemy because its your fault for not combating the dragon hiding behind some rocks and exploiting the game mechanics.

Nift:
snip

The horse is a physical manifestation of the eternal force of change Sithis. It is supposed to be weirdly powerful.

Also gameplay should be built around lore.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
It did everything open world games have been doing wrong forever right.

How entirely vague, non descriptive, and evasive.

Wait, horses can kill dragons in Skyrim ? I know they complain that dragons were too easy, but really Todd ?

I guess this gif was really wasn't a joke after all.

image

I quickly discovered that shield and sword, combined with health potions, solve ALL problems. Once you get the perk that slows down enemy power attacks so you can block them easier, life is a cakewalk.

Magic uses? Whirlwind spring + shield bash to the face.

Archers? Buddy, your shield blocks arrows. That or you just walk in a slight zig-zag.

But as simple and easy as it is, it's still fun to jump into the middle of a group of enemies and pretend your guy is screaming his name while slicing them up.

EDIT: I remember there being something about moving different directions while swinging can do different attacks, but I never had to do any of that. Maybe there should be something like a fighting game combo-system? Click-click-hold to do some attack, and just clicking over and over wouldn't work?

Anthraxus:
Wait, horses can kill dragons in Skyrim ? I know they complain that dragons were too easy, but really Todd ?

The horse is immortal and it takes it upwards of 10 minutes to kill the dragon

An immortal mudcrab could beat a dragon because it is immortal.

Really, anything

BaronUberstein:
combined with health potions, solve ALL problems.

in TES. Alchemy is hilarious in those games.

image

Kahunaburger:
Really, anything

BaronUberstein:
combined with health potions, solve ALL problems.

in TES. Alchemy is hilarious in those games.

they need to put a limit on how many potions you can drink in a certain amount of time, and make them heal over time.

SajuukKhar:

Anthraxus:
Wait, horses can kill dragons in Skyrim ? I know they complain that dragons were too easy, but really Todd ?

The horse is immortal and it takes it upwards of 10 minutes to kill the dragon

An immortal mudcrab could beat a dragon because it is immortal.

What, this guy?

image

Yeah, that dragon has nothing on good ol' Karapyss.

Scars Unseen:

What, this guy?

Yeah, that dragon has nothing on good ol' Karapyss.

That is great, really, thats pretty funny.

What would be better is that GIANT mudcrab from the gamejam video.

image

the game jam video made me go WHY IS THIS NOT IN THE GAME!!, for like everything they showed.

SajuukKhar:

Kahunaburger:
Really, anything

BaronUberstein:
combined with health potions, solve ALL problems.

in TES. Alchemy is hilarious in those games.

they need to put a limit on how many potions you can drink in a certain amount of time, and make them heal over time.

Stimpacks heal over time in New Vegas. But Beth won't do that because that goes against their whole philosophy of making the player feel like the ultimate bad ass that can do everything and nobody can fuck with.

Look at Fallout 3 for example, Beth gives you a perk every level, instead of every 2 levels (like in Fallout 1 & 2). So you can create this jack of all trades character, instead of having to create a more specialized one. Your choices aren't nearly as important, and everybody ends up with basically the same character by the end of the game.

What was one of the first things Obsidian changes with NV ? Goes back to how it should be, 1 perk every 2 levels.

It's definitely been getting better each iteration, but... Dark Messiah was 6 damn years ago and it blows it away in every aspect - melee, archery, magic, stealth, and it has extensive use of physics to top it off.

I enjoyed Skyrim overall, but I really had to grit my teeth through most of the combat. It's just clunky.

Anthraxus:
Stimpacks heal over time in New Vegas. But Beth won't do that because that goes against their whole philosophy of making the player feel like the ultimate bad ass that can do everything and nobody can fuck with.

Stimpacks only heal over time in hardcore mode...... and nothing about Beth's design philosophy would stop them from making a hardcore in the Elder scrolls series.

The fact that they only heal over time in hardcore mode, which was an ENTIRE set of different rules that affected so many other things, is a very important thing to take into account, and that should not be ignored.

Anthraxus:
Look at Fallout 3 for example, Beth gives you a perk every level, instead of every 2 levels (like in Fallout 1 & 2). So you can create this jack of all trades character, instead of having to create a more specialized one. Your choices aren't nearly as important, and everybody ends up with basically the same character by the end of the game.

What was one of the first things Obsidian changes with NV ? Goes back to how it should be, 1 perk every 2 levels.

I agree to an extent, in theory having a perk only every two levels would be better, unfortunately 90% of the perks were so useless that it made the change pointless.

Once I got to around level 25+ I just sat there for like an hour on the perk select screen because I hated all of them.

Despite having half as many perks to choose from over the course of the game I still found all my character maxing all my skills, and taking the exact same perks each playthrough despite the character type I played as because almost all the perks were so useless.

One of the shittiest things about New Vegas, and Fallout 3 for that matter, was how the forced you to pick a perk. It kinda killed a lot of the RP when my character was told YOU HAVE TO PICK SOMETHING, when I generally didn't care for most of the perks because of how god-awful/useless they were.

I have a slightly skewed perception of TES combat, having only ever played Skyrim and Arena...compared with Arena, Skyrim's combat mechanics are ambrosia. However, it's not really a fair comparison.

More to the point, compared with other games' combat, I found Skyrim's to be passable, if not earth shattering. With one exception, however - Skyrim is the first game in which I have actually enjoyed the archery component. It strikes a nice balance between hard work and cheap thrills.

This is coming from someone who plays Skyrim on the PS3, too. We have to aim by nudging the thumbstick, which is an art in and of itself, and usually the reason archery mechanics fall flat (in my experience).

At the same time, I may not be the best person to comment on combat - I'm more into analysing how the sneak/stealth mechanics in a game work. As such, I usually avoid any traditional 'combat' situations by either ducking past or taking the enemy by surprise. Well, trying to, anyway. ;-P

Skyrim's combat isn't the best ever, but I think it's pretty fun.

When it comes to action RPGs, I don't want to piss around worrying about my stats a whole lot. I'd imagine that's what the "action" in action RPG implies.

I don't dislike Skyrim's combat, but the combat mechanics in other action-RPGs like Kingdom Hearts or Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII are definitely superior.

SajuukKhar:

Anthraxus:
Stimpacks heal over time in New Vegas. But Beth won't do that because that goes against their whole philosophy of making the player feel like the ultimate bad ass that can do everything and nobody can fuck with.

Stimpacks only heal over time in hardcore mode...... and nothing about Beth's design philosophy would stop them from making a hardcore mode with different rules then the normal mode.

The fact that they only heal over time in hardcore mode, which was an ENTIRE set of different rules, is a very large difference that should not be ignored.

Anthraxus:
Look at Fallout 3 for example, Beth gives you a perk every level, instead of every 2 levels (like in Fallout 1 & 2). So you can create this jack of all trades character, instead of having to create a more specialized one. Your choices aren't nearly as important, and everybody ends up with basically the same character by the end of the game.

What was one of the first things Obsidian changes with NV ? Goes back to how it should be, 1 perk every 2 levels.

I agree to an extent, in theory having a perk only every two levels would be better, unfortunately 90% of the perks were so useless that it made the change pointless.

Once I got to around level 25+ I just sat there for like an hour on the perk select screen because I hated all of them.

Despite having half as many perks to choose from over the course of the game I still found all my character maxing all my skills, and taking the exact same perks each playthrough despite the character type I played as because almost all the perks were so useless.

One of the shittiest things about New Vegas, and Fallout 3 for that matter, was how the forced you to pick a perk. It kinda killed a lot of the RP when my character was told YOU HAVE TO PICK SOMETHING, when I generally didn't care for most of the perks because of how god-awful/useless they were.

Skyrim did come out after NV. They should of learned something from it and made a HC mode in Skyrim.

I like picking. Much better than.. 'the more you use it, the better you get with it' style. It may sound good in idea, but doesn't work well in a game. I agree about with you that there's not enough good perks though, but that's a separate issue. Most all of these rpgs that have alot of skills/perks/spells, ect.. almost always seem to have a high % of useless/semi-useless ones for some reason.

Anthraxus:
Skyrim did come out after NV. They should of learned something from it and made a HC mode in Skyrim.

I like picking. Much better than.. 'the more you use it, the better you get with it' style. It may sound good in idea, but doesn't work well in a game. I agree about with you that there's not enough good perks though, but that's a separate issue. Most all of these rpgs that have alot of skills/perks/spells, ect.. almost always seem to have a high % of useless/semi-useless ones for some reason.

I think they didn't include a hardcore mode because they didn't feel like ES fans really wanted it. Most people who play the ES games dont do so for those reasons, unlike Fallout fans who are more into that, and a hardcore mode probably wouldn't have been used much. It really wouldn't have been worth the time, especially since they know modders would just make whatever they wanted anyways.

Hell Imp's more complex needs + Frostfall: hypothermia puts New Vegas's hardcore mode to shame.
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Ehh I found Skyrim's leveling far more fun then Fallout New Vegas's, it does need to be changed a bit so you can't do something dumb like level pickpocket and gain like 20 levels, but then not having enough combat skills in order to fight anything, but think it's better and more enjoyable overall then New Vegas's system.

When playing Fallout 3 or New Vegas I dont feel like I'm actually doing anything or getting anywhere until the level-up screen, and then I look at all the skills I used to level up and how since I have a limited amounts of skill points I cant level all them up. I dont feel like I was actually lockpicking, or using guns, etc. etc.

SajuukKhar:

I think they didn't include a hardcore mode because they didn't feel like ES fans really wanted it. Most people who play the ES games dont do so for those reasons, unlike Fallout fans who are more into that, and a hardcore mode probably wouldn't have been used much. It really wouldn't have been worth the time, especially since they know modders would just make whatever they wanted anyways.

Hell Imp's more complex needs + Frostfall: hypothermia puts New Vegas's hardcore mode to shame.
.

That would have to be compared with any HC type mods for NV though. Not the normal one. (which Bethesda didn't provide)

What about all the ppl on consoles that want some HC action ? I thought there was some talk about consoles getting mods for Skyrim. Though I'm sure Beth would prob want to make money off it, if it were true. 10$ a mod.

Anthraxus:
That would have to be compared with any HC type mods for NV though. Not the normal one. (which Bethesda didn't provide)

What about all the ppl on consoles that want some HC action ? I thought there was some talk about consoles getting mods for Skyrim possibly. Though I'm sure Beth would prob want to make money off it, if it were true. 10$ a mod.

Yeah and the HC mods for New Vegas brought it to the level that the mods for Skyrim or Oblivion brought to them.

Also I doubt most console players would want to play hardcore mode.
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Because a company that has not once tired to charge money for mods, and has actively supported the free modding community for years, would charge for mods on the consoles?

If the mods did cost anything on the consoles it would probably be because of Mircosoft and their BS. In fact that is the very reason Valve hasnt released almost anything for TF2 on the console.

SajuukKhar:

Also I doubt most console players would want to play hardcore mode.

Oh come on. Gotta remember, alot of ppl brought up on consoles back in the day too, and stayed with them. Very different from console games of today. I'm sure alot of them would love a HC mode.

Because a company that has not once tired to charge money for mods, and has actively supported the free modding community for years, would charge for mods on the consoles?

It's not like their gonna charge for the user created mods on PC. Console mods would be their opportunity. And lets not pretend like Beth and Zenimax are so benevolent or something, with their lawsuit over the name 'scrolls' being used nonsense, screwing over Obsidian over on that bs metacritic deal..

Read about the Chairman and CEO of ZeniMax a little
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Altman

Anthraxus:
Oh come on. Gotta remember, alot of ppl brought up on consoles back in the day too, and stayed with them. Very different from console games of today. I'm sure alot of them would love a HC mode.

I wasn't trying to imply there weren't any HC wanting players on consoles, just that it probably wasn't enough to justify the time/money spent on re-balancing the entire game for a HC mode.

Anthraxus:
It's not like their gonna charge for the user created mods on PC. Console mods would be their opportunity. And lets not pretend like Beth and Zenimax so benevolent or something, with their lawsuit over the name 'scrolls' being used nonsense, screwing over Obsidian over on that bs metacritic deal..

The scrolls thing was kind of stupid yeah, but Obsidian and Bethesda made a deal that if they got a, what was it 85?, metascore they would get a bonus, Obsidian failed to meet the conditions of the deal, regardless of if it was by 1 point or .5 point. I see nothing wrong with following the conditions of a deal.

As for the CEO, he was acquitted on all charges.

SajuukKhar:

Anthraxus:
Oh come on. Gotta remember, alot of ppl brought up on consoles back in the day too, and stayed with them. Very different from console games of today. I'm sure alot of them would love a HC mode.

I wasn't trying to imply there weren't any HC wanting players on consoles, just that it probably wasn't enough to justify the time/money spent on re-balancing the entire game for a HC mode.

Anthraxus:
It's not like their gonna charge for the user created mods on PC. Console mods would be their opportunity. And lets not pretend like Beth and Zenimax so benevolent or something, with their lawsuit over the name 'scrolls' being used nonsense, screwing over Obsidian over on that bs metacritic deal..

The scrolls thing was kind of stupid yeah, but Obsidian and Bethesda made a deal that if they got a, what was it 85?, metascore they would get a bonus, Obsidian failed to meet the conditions of the deal, regardless of if it was by 1 point or .5 point. I see nothing wrong with following the conditions of a deal.

As for the CEO, he was acquitted on all charges.

The deal was beyond retarded and I don't know what was going through Feargus mind when he agreed to it. Even though it was leagues better than Fallout 3 it was destined to get a lower score regardless. (which is a load of horseshit)

And Altman agreed to being banned from banking (an ENTIRE INDUSTRY), to get out of hot water. lol

SajuukKhar:

Anthraxus:
Oh come on. Gotta remember, alot of ppl brought up on consoles back in the day too, and stayed with them. Very different from console games of today. I'm sure alot of them would love a HC mode.

I wasn't trying to imply there weren't any HC wanting players on consoles, just that it probably wasn't enough to justify the time/money spent on re-balancing the entire game for a HC mode.

Anthraxus:
It's not like their gonna charge for the user created mods on PC. Console mods would be their opportunity. And lets not pretend like Beth and Zenimax so benevolent or something, with their lawsuit over the name 'scrolls' being used nonsense, screwing over Obsidian over on that bs metacritic deal..

The scrolls thing was kind of stupid yeah, but Obsidian and Bethesda made a deal that if they got a, what was it 85?, metascore they would get a bonus, OBsidian failed to meet the conditions of the deal. I see nothing wrong with following the conditions of a deal.

As for the CEO, he was acquitted on all charges.

The Scrolls thing was a legal requirement. If they didn't, it would have opened up a floodgate. It's one of the necessary evils of copyright law.

Anthraxus:
The deal was beyond retarded and I don't know what was going through Feargus mind when he agreed to it.

And Altman agreed to being banned from banking (an ENTIRE INDUSTRY), to get out of hot water. lol

I dont see how a deal of "you get this high of a score and we give you more money for doing well" is stupid.

Yeah, and? What If Chris Avellone was accused of doing some shit and let himself be banned from gaming to show his innocence, would that make him a bad person?

It's not the best combat (Dark Souls is really as good as it gets for me) but I never found it as awful as people made it out to be.

For me the worse action RPG combat I've experienced recently is Kingdoms of Amalur. I just found it so unsatisfying and dull.

SajuukKhar:

I dont see how a deal of "you get this high of a score and we give you more money for doing well" is stupid.

Yeah, and? What If Chris Avellone was accused of doing some shit and let himself be banned from gaming to show his innocence, would that make him a bad person?

Because the review scores are a nonsense in the first place ?

Yea right, he agreed to to settle the civil suit, not show his innocence.

And MCA would never get banned from gaming because he's one of the good guys, not like that scumbag Altman.

Anthraxus:
Because the review scores are a nonsense in the first place ?

Yea right, he agreed to to settle the civil suit, not show his innocence.

And MCA would never get banned from gaming because he's one of the good guys, not like that scumbag Altman.

Not really..... review scores are only hated upon when its convenient for people and vise-versa. Furthermore its the only real way companies have of knowing how good their game was.
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Showing obvious biased, and double-standard, towards Avellone in a hypothetical situation while demonizing a Bethesda/Zenimax employee in the same situation.

Yeah...... should have expected that.

Anthraxus:

Scow2:
Actually... I find the passive improvement of commonly-used abilities to be the best skill system ever seen in an RPG.

image

I'm not sure what "Action-RPGs" have a better combat system than Skyrim's

Take your pick ?

I think Anthraxus means combat action games like God of War and Dante's Inferno.

I played Oblivion for a while and sampled Skyrim and neither comes close to the real time action and fluid motion of Dante's Inferno, since they're just not meant for that, although the Elder Scrolls games overall are much better than Inferno or God of War.

It all has to do with a finite amount of memory and computing power and what can and cannot be emphasized. Skyrim is so expansive, so awesomely grand that it cannot possibly also develop and incorporate the kind of nuanced motion-captured and algorithm-generated combat mechanics of a 10 hour game like Dante's Inferno, which focuses solely on a narrow storyline and a Call of Duty like combat engine.

That is, combat is everything in Dante's Inferno. It's only part of the story in Skyrim. I personally think Fable II strikes a good balance between smooth animation/combat along with an open world, but many will certainly disagree on that point. It all depends on mood as well: sometimes, immersion and freedom win out. Other times, simple linear game with intense action wins out.

BTW, was browsing looking for a game to get and this thread was interesting! Cheers!

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