... I love these conspiracy theories, I find them, as you said: facinating. even though I don't always belive in them.
85 minute video? challege accepted.

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

1. Sound effects are sound effects.

2. Dreams are dreams. recurring nightmares are common.

3. Transitions are transitions. They are reused time and time again.

4. blurred eyesight is a common trope. Its atmosphere, a tactic to limit the draw on the computer.

5. The change in distance is just laziness.

6. a pre-determined armor at the beam is a time constraint. making different textures for the same armor is easy. Making it for the very end sequence would serve no purpose. It would be easier to say the paint was burned off. Even the GUNS are different in cutscenes. The dead bodies are a design oversight.

7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

Ultratwinkie:
I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

There was originally a plan to have a sequence near the end where Shepard has to fight off indoctrination. It's quite possible...probable, even...that a lot of the auditory and visual clues pointing towards indoctrination are actually exactly that...only the sequence in question was cut due to a determination by the developers that they couldn't get the game play right.

There were notes about it in that "The Final Hours" DLC thingamajig. People are just seeing hints and pointers towards a plot twist that got dropped at the 11th hour.

I think it's pretty evident given the tone of discussion around the ending since the backlash that the full blown indoctrination theory is pretty much dead in the water.

I admire the indoctrination theory. In its evolution it's become very detailed and well thought out (which is almost unheard of from internet conspiracy theories). However, I don't think I can ever 'believe' it no matter how much evidence is brought forth for the simple reason that no-one, and I mean no-one at EA would be willing to take the risk of releasing a game (especially one as high profile as ME3) with a deliberately disappointing and confusing ending, just so they could surprise people later with the 'real' ending. They would never be ok with that, and judging by the fan backlash from the current ending, they'd probably be right.

I'm fine with believing that the current ending was supposed to be a lot longer and more detailed, but got cut down to the point where it was barely coherent due to time and money constraints. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and all that.

I don't know, even the ending they were "supposed" to go with, the dark matter ending, doesn't make any sense.

Let's just chalk it up to "videogame endings suck".

First, I'd like to point out that there's nothing new about the Indoctrination theory. Everything you need to know from this 85 minute video can essentially be found in the 20 minute video that came out weeks ago.

BloatedGuppy:

Ultratwinkie:
I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

There was originally a plan to have a sequence near the end where Shepard has to fight off indoctrination. It's quite possible...probable, even...that a lot of the auditory and visual clues pointing towards indoctrination are actually exactly that...only the sequence in question was cut due to a determination by the developers that they couldn't get the game play right.

There were notes about it in that "The Final Hours" DLC thingamajig. People are just seeing hints and pointers towards a plot twist that got dropped at the 11th hour.

I think it's pretty evident given the tone of discussion around the ending since the backlash that the full blown indoctrination theory is pretty much dead in the water.

In short, everything about the ending can be summed up with knowledge we already had: "Casey Hudson is a fucking slap-dick who just utterly screwed the pooch and butchered the ending like no ending has been butchered before."

Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

I watched it and I still fully support indoctrination theory.

I'm not looking forward to the extended dlc to be perfectly honest,but it will be funny to see how they will dig their hole deeper with the explanations regarding the presumably unchanged ending.

If you need a video longer than the ending itself to explain the ending, you have failed.

distortedreality:
Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

he wont let it go as long as he keeps getting views in the millions, which means people arent ready to let it go either.

boag:

distortedreality:
Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

he wont let it go as long as he keeps getting views in the millions, which means people arent ready to let it go either.

Hopefully when D3 drops, people will have something new to rage about.

Really sad when it comes to hoping another big game causes rage just to stop the endless threads about the last big game.

Wow. I'm not sure whether to be impressed with the effort or feel pity.

loads of strong evidence bioware have their work cut out for them i just really hope it isnt long cutscenes and i now defenitley support the indocturnation theroy

Vault101:

Ultratwinkie:
Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.
7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

I foudn the bodies thign creepy..they werent there before..and when have we seen pheonix armour post ME1? (the reapeat models is no surprised given its a agme) but those bodies definetly seem out of place (last night the whole thign actually creeped me out)

the ONLY thing that makes me unsure about "IT" is that it would jsut be a little to brilliant to be true...even then your coutner argument isnt anymore convincing than arguments for "IT"

I understand people are sick of talking about ME3, but true ot not I find this stuff absolutly facinating

boag:

distortedreality:
Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

he wont let it go as long as he keeps getting views in the millions, which means people arent ready to let it go either.

distortedreality:
Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

its not about "letting go" I'm not spending my time sitting in my room being angry and crying over the nding..no I've moved on like most people have

but becuase Im "fan" I love this kind of stuff...this is better than jsut analyzing charachters and themes

to put it another way, this shit is actually FUN

Its simple, the bodies are not there because you would not notice it and to save the draw on the computer. The phoenix armor itself is easy to explain, the militia members scavenged old armor. They were fighting for weeks after all.

Secondly, the theory doesn't hold water. Why would everything after the laser be a dream? They would just kill him and be done with it. Third, Shepard was known to have the willpower of Marneus Calgar otherwise he wopuld not have survived the prothean beacon.

The indoctrination theory is impossible, because indoctrination would have already happened by now after years of interacting with reaper tech. Reapers indoctrinated someone not in their presence is bad writing, no different from everyone suddenly being a cylon in battlestar galactica or everyone being a blood mage in Dragon Age II.

Oh no!

T.I.M is a cylon!
Anderson is a Cylon!
YOU are a cylon!
Everyone's a Cylon!

So is this video trying to show that indoctrination is true?
Because we already know from comments by the devs that it is not (how can you plan something like this if you don't know that the ending will even be, it's not possible) and the last video on it wasn't convincing. A big point was Object Rho knocking Shep out, but Shep might not even do Arrival, stuff like that.

EDIT:

Ultratwinkie:
or everyone being a blood mage in Dragon Age II.

There was a reason for that, 2 reasons really.

Vault101:

Ultratwinkie:

Its simple, the bodies are not there because you would not notice it and to save the draw on the computer. The phoenix armor itself is easy to explain, the militia members scavenged old armor. They were fighting for weeks after all.

Secondly, the theory doesn't hold water. Why would everything after the laser be a dream? They would just kill him and be done with it. Third, Shepard was known to have the willpower of Marneus Calgar otherwise he wopuld not have survived the prothean beacon.

The indoctrination theory is impossible, because indoctrination would have already happened by now after years of interacting with reaper tech. Reapers indoctrinated someone not in their presence is bad writing, no different from everyone suddenly being a cylon in battlestar galactica or everyone being a blood mage in Dragon Age II.

who says shepard is imune indoctrination?...he/she is just a tough nut to crack, but still human, and he/she is tough enough to overcome it..thats the whole point here

shepard is a very nice prize for the reapers it wouldn't surprise me they would focus on him/her, I dont know how much "contact" is needed though

now hyperbole aside there are things that go beyond plot holes, there are things that are insanley retatrded and nonsensical (how does shepard "survive" at the end of destruction?) there is a chance that is could be THAT much of a cut-down mess since they had to change things...I find even that hard to belive but its definetly a probability

oh the other hand "IT" seems to fit its uncanny

Why keep him as a prize? That is an organic idea. Just kill him off would have been the most logical.

Mass Effect 1's whole story was that he had amazing willpower. The fact he wasn't indoctrinated at arrival is a point against indoctrination theory.

The dream sequence using reaper sounds was simply Shepard's traumatized mind. Its a thing.

Shepard could survive the destruction ending because the bionic enhancements were done a year ago. His body would have healed and he may not even need them anymore.

There is one very simple reason why the Indoctrination Theory could not possibly be true.

Mass Effect is a space opera. Not for an instant of its 3-lengthy-games spanning lifetime has it been subtle.

That's not to say it isn't smart or clever, it has been both those things many times over, but it wants your attention every step of the way. It wants you to know how smart and clever it is, not because it's boasting, but because it's fully aware that you being aware of its smartness and cleverness will add to your enjoyment of the game. It's essentially the closest thing we have to Chris Nolan in video games.

Remember the ending to Inception? Sure, we don't really find out the answer right then and there, but the spinning top is still in the middle of the screen. That's how Mass Effect would have done Indoctrination, if that's what they were going for. Maybe leaving room for doubt, maybe leaving questions unanswered, but in the middle of the screen, front and center. Not with a few vague sound effects.

I'm not sure I'm gonna look at it, but damn, the fact that someone made a goddamn movie about the theory is impressive in a really insane sort of way.

I do agree though, that the theory itself is fascinating, and possibly the greatest thing to come out of Mass Effect 3.

I think that it's pretty clear that they *intended* for indoctrination to play SOME part in it, or at least had it very heavily considered as an option.

There are just too many things that wouldn't make sense to have without indoctrination.

I feel like they probably ditched it at the behest of that talentless lead hack. Probably.

undeadsuitor:
I don't know, even the ending they were "supposed" to go with, the dark matter ending, doesn't make any sense.

Let's just chalk it up to "videogame endings suck".

can you explain the original endings for me? what were they supposed to be?

Vault101:

and since he put in so much effort, and since it brings some new (albeit small) stuff to the table I think it deserves a look...

No, no it doesn't. It's still tripe, even if it's anal, minutia-laden tripe.

Come on, folks. Pro or against the indoctrination theory, just admit: Bioware doesn't make good stories. Your expectations were built up in your head and NOTHING can compare.

Not so hot on the indoctrination ending.

To quote Shamus Young:

I think that would be better than the ending we got, but I don't think it it was ever intended by the writers. This theory involves an incredible level of subtle symbolism, which goes against just how ham-fisted the rest of the story is. To wit: If these writers thought Shepard was indoctrinated in the last stage of the game, we would know it.

Still, love all the investigating and whatnot going into all this. Seeing so many people really get into a game's story and lore is great to see. Wish it happened more often, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

Vault101:

chadachada123:
I think that it's pretty clear that they *intended* for indoctrination to play SOME part in it, or at least had it very heavily considered as an option.

There are just too many things that wouldn't make sense to have without indoctrination.

I feel like they probably ditched it at the behest of that talentless lead hack. Probably.

there was the poper ending involving dark matter (and I think th use of mass relays slowly destroying the universe) but they ditched that...so I dont know

I totally forgot about that one.

That ending seems pretty good, but still somewhat misguided, since they are slaughtering billions in order to...save...billions...or something...

I liked reading about it though, heh.