Which will you purchase/which do you prefer?
Diablo 3
46.7% (396)
46.7% (396)
Torchlight 2
52.9% (449)
52.9% (449)
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Poll: So... Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2?

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Torchlight 2.

More attractive game (art style), cheaper, no DRM, better skill system, and less Diablo lore-twisting stuff.

For the price of Diablo III, which isn't offering much content for 40~, I can get 4 copies of Torchlight II for me and my mates to play in co-op. Also get the first game for free.

Yeah...

Hammeroj:

Abandon4093:
If you don't see how a transition from sprites to models is going to have an impact on the aesthetic that transcends a style change.... then what are we even doing here?

No, in fact, I don't see how a transition from sprites to models is going to have an impact on the art style. Not to the extent you're talking about, anyway. You wanna know why? Because other games do a better job of nailing down Diablo's aesthetic in 3D than Diablo 3 does. Well, actually, that's not why, I'm just capable of telling art styles apart, but it helps illustrate just how bloody wrong you are.

We're talking about vastly different things here.

You seem to be entirely focusing on texture quality whilst I'm talking about design. What you have an issue with is the way the engine renders detail and lights scenes, not the design aesthetics that you've been banging on about.

And those 2 screen shots, fuck ugly.

Unless you're saying that a switch from 2d to 3d necessitates a change in the most core principles of the aesthetics, you don't have a leg to stand on. And if you are saying that, well, how come?

The core aesthetic hasn't changed, the major difference is that it's now got dynamic lighting. And the environment is rendered smoother, both of which come from the change in engine. Are you saying it isn't Diablo because it's not as grainy?

And actually Diablo II's creature design was far, far more blocky than Diablo III's. There also isn't that much of a difference between the main characters designs beyond them being a little more updated. If you compare the two sorceress' the only major difference is that the new one has a few more trinkets and plates of armour here n there.

It's just evovled, as any series should 12 years on.

I'll say this again, since this seemed to fly right over you. The entirety of the texturing in D3 doesn't resemble Diablo in any way, shape or form. The painting-like quality alone makes those textures the antithesis of realistic on its face. If you can't see a difference between the two, you can't see anything that doesn't support your case, and there is little left to talk about.

Again, you're essentially moaning about it not being as grainy. Design and aesthetic isn't limited to texture quality. The core design D3 is the same as D2.

You're working off of a different definition of blocky than I am. Low resolution does not a blocky character design make. The Diablo 2 screen you used wasn't an actual gameplay screenshot, you know that? I would argue it, but at least provide an in-game screenshot if you want to compare the two. This is just wasting space. Why creature or character design even entered the conversation is beyond me, by the way. I didn't mention them. Are you saying all the things I did mention were true, then?

Bullshit, we're talking about the design. That's what you've been harping on about. The design. I didn't choose a screen of an ingame D2 because it's 12 fucking years old and they're insanely low res. You couldn't make out the design principles of the characters from that if you got out a magnifying glass.

And D2's creatures were blocky because they were sprites, and low res. That doesn't change the fact that they were blocky. Just look at the Golems, they were walking rectangles.

The comment about evolving is just sigh-worthy. What the bloody hell are you on about? Why should the art style change, and who cares how the fuck often? Shouldn't by your logic Warcraft have started turning more and more realistic since a couple of years ago? What about any Nintendo game ever? If you didn't like it that way, go ahead and say you didn't. But don't come here talking nonsense about how art styles must arbitrarily change every so often because you said so.

Fuck off it's 'sigh worthy'. It's 12 years on, if you want the game to look exactly the same, go play the 12 year old game. I wouldn't be happy with a low res grainy game just so I could say 'least its still grim dark'.

The art style hasn't changed, it's been updated. The same core principles are at work.

You obviously like it this way better. I've said this before, good for you.

I just don't want to play a new game that looks 12 years old.

Probably neither, but if I had to pick one I think I would pick the one that:

Didn't have an always-online requirement.
The one that doesn't have a real-money auction house that favors the rich and enforces number one.
Something that didn't spend ten and a half years in "development". Who wants to buy a game from a lazy company. It's a hack-n-slash guys.

However, I don't intend to get either.

Abandon4093:
We're talking about vastly different things here.

You seem to be entirely focusing on texture quality whilst I'm talking about design. What you have an issue with is the way the engine renders detail and lights scenes, not the design aesthetics that you've been banging on about.

And those 2 screen shots, fuck ugly.

Stopped reading right there. We're not talking about vastly different things. You're just completely impervious to simple bloody truth statements.

I was talking about adherence to an aesthetic style, and I'm not fixated on the quality of any of it. The fact that I specifically mentioned that the styles are inherently different - three times - and it's like you haven't even read those words, is enough to make me give up. Good job.

I don't care about how good, or bad, you think any of it fucking looks. This is not the point, and it was not the point right from the very beginning, like I kept stating over, and over, and over, and over again.

Hammeroj:

Abandon4093:
We're talking about vastly different things here.

You seem to be entirely focusing on texture quality whilst I'm talking about design. What you have an issue with is the way the engine renders detail and lights scenes, not the design aesthetics that you've been banging on about.

And those 2 screen shots, fuck ugly.

Stopped reading right there.

What a coincidence, I stopped reading right there.

Can someone explain to me why the story in Diablo was good?

All I can remember was some dude telling me to clear out a den of evil and then I stopped caring about the game or its story.

Let's remember both games' storyline is rather irrelevant. All it needs to do it point you in the direction to the nearest full loot dispenser.

endtherapture:

Eric the Orange:

kingthrall:
d3, torchlight way too childish looking even though diablo 3 is sadly on the same wrong path.

You, my friend, may want to look into Grim Dawn.

here's a pre-alpha gameplay video,

If the spell effects were better that'd be awesome.

I heard about this, its made from the guys who did Titan quest another awesome game.
Looks similar too with the health-bar and magic style of casting.

You know, I was neutral but I'm siding with D3 now, only because the TL2 crowds arguments are more idiotic.

I was just watching the Yogscast footage of the TL2 beta. Something they say towards the end of that I found agreeable. That game looks like WoW. It looks a lot like WoW. How can anybody complain about D3s graphical style not being "dark" enough or veering too far from the aesthetic of its predecessor, and then claim TL2 is somehow closer to D2s grittiness?

Before anybody asks, I do think TL2 looks good and I'll be getting both, but if you want me to polarise I'll polarise ;)

Have diablo 3 in front of me...Loved the first two, here's hoping the third pushes the boundaries. Considering what they've done to the drop and skill system, I think it just may...

Adam Jensen:
Torchlight 2. I can't support always-on DRM in single player games.

And before the thread is flooded with people asking where's the "both" option in the poll, this is obviously a topic for people who will only choose one of these two games.

captcha: road apples

I've been getting the weirdest captchas lately.

Why not? In this day and age most people have an internet connection and it ensures a better game experience in games like D3 where hacked items can truly ruin it.

Abandon4093:
snip

The art style has changed - it is far more colourful and lighter.
Why? Because as they did with SC2, I think the engine is just a heavily modified WoW engine. The aesthetics in D3 are close to going the entirely wrong way. Diablo 3 should be dark, gritty and more like Silent Hill and less like World of Warcraft.

I voted for Diablo 3 because I didn't really enjoy the first Torchlight. I found it quite dull and really couldn't be bothered to complete it, so I'm unsure about the sequel. However, I hear Torchlight 2 will have a coop, and I do find dungeon crawlers much more enjoyable when playing with a couple of friends, so I might give it a look eventually.

I would buy Torchlight 2 but my computer probably isn't up to snuff.

The Cool Kid:

Abandon4093:
snip

The art style has changed - it is far more colourful and lighter.
Why? Because as they did with SC2, I think the engine is just a heavily modified WoW engine. The aesthetics in D3 are close to going the entirely wrong way. Diablo 3 should be dark, gritty and more like Silent Hill and less like World of Warcraft.

That's not the art style, it's the way the engine renders.

The way the characters and environments are designed is in keeping with the style the original two games set.

The engine simply has dynamic lighting and doesn't render things grainy anymore. This makes it brighter and a whole lot easier to look at.

I'm going with the more sensible option of Torchlight 2. I pre-ordered it through Steam and got TL1, and I love it to bits.

But anyway TL is much cheaper, you can play it off line, you can play it through Steam, there is no real money auction house (pay to win system), aesthetically it's nicer to look at and the requirements will probably be a bit lower too.

Plus there won't be hoards of die hard Blizzard fans shouting down their mic at you for being shit or stupid.

Abandon4093:

The Cool Kid:

Abandon4093:
snip

The art style has changed - it is far more colourful and lighter.
Why? Because as they did with SC2, I think the engine is just a heavily modified WoW engine. The aesthetics in D3 are close to going the entirely wrong way. Diablo 3 should be dark, gritty and more like Silent Hill and less like World of Warcraft.

That's not the art style, it's the way the engine renders.

The way the characters and environments are designed is in keeping with the style the original two games set.

The engine simply has dynamic lighting and doesn't render things grainy anymore. This makes it brighter and a whole lot easier to look at.

To have the engine render like that was an artistic choice. When you make an engine, it can look like Crysis, STALKER, Portal or WoW; it's up to the management to decide how the engine should perform; it's not pot-luck as to how an engine will end up looking.

No, it is not keeping in style with the original two games. Having played all three(and btw the third is sitting on my desk so I'm not bias) the third has a far smoother, more colourful look to it, and that's not down to AA or some other technical reason.

My biggest gripe with the game isn't actually the in-game graphics; they do the job quite well. It's actually the inventory, and considering how often you will be looking at it, it's a valid complaint. Let's compare D2 and 3's inventory:



As you can see, the latter is far, far more colourful and barely adheres to the gothic theme of the previous instalments as the previous games went for realistic looking items whereas D3 has gone down a cartoon-ish route. Honestly, it looks like a HUD mod for WoW.

CardinalPiggles:
you can play it off line

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends - I need to play online anyway.

CardinalPiggles:
there is no real money auction house (pay to win system)

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

CardinalPiggles:
Plus there won't be hoards of die hard Blizzard fans shouting down their mic at you for being shit or stupid.

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

Yeah, I'll be playing both, but I'll start with Diablo 3 as it's released in two days - Torchlight 2 isn't.

nu1mlock:

CardinalPiggles:
you can play it off line

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends - I need to play online anyway.

CardinalPiggles:
there is no real money auction house (pay to win system)

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

CardinalPiggles:
Plus there won't be hoards of die hard Blizzard fans shouting down their mic at you for being shit or stupid.

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

Yeah, I'll be playing both, but I'll start with Diablo 3 as it's released in two days - Torchlight 2 isn't.

You could have also included that with the pay-to-win system, who cares if someone pays you for the opportunity to "win"? Frankly if I can get a game to somehow pay for itself and then some, then it is I who has won.

nu1mlock:

CardinalPiggles:
you can play it off line

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends - I need to play online anyway.

CardinalPiggles:
there is no real money auction house (pay to win system)

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

CardinalPiggles:
Plus there won't be hoards of die hard Blizzard fans shouting down their mic at you for being shit or stupid.

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

Yeah, I'll be playing both, but I'll start with Diablo 3 as it's released in two days - Torchlight 2 isn't.

I'm happy for you?

CardinalPiggles:

nu1mlock:

CardinalPiggles:
you can play it off line

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends - I need to play online anyway.

CardinalPiggles:
there is no real money auction house (pay to win system)

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

CardinalPiggles:
Plus there won't be hoards of die hard Blizzard fans shouting down their mic at you for being shit or stupid.

Which isn't a problem for me, I'll be playing with friends instead of stupid randoms.

Yeah, I'll be playing both, but I'll start with Diablo 3 as it's released in two days - Torchlight 2 isn't.

I'm happy for you?

Don't be antagonistic. Your pros for TL2 are quite hollow. Plus the minimum requirements for D3 are very low, which makes me think that most people settle with TL2 because their PC's/laptops are archaic.

CardinalPiggles:
I'm happy for you?

.. "okay".

I bet you'll have just as much problems with people screaming at you if you play TL2 with randoms too.

If you're going to play all by yourself then you won't have a problem with them screaming in either game, and you won't have a problem with the RMAH if playing alone either. Which, by itself, isn't a problem as you're playing co-op, there's not stats and you get individual loot from enemies.

The only valid point you had was the offline part. I'm guessing you have a really shitty connection then. Because if you're on a plane or train you could just, I don't know, play something else. Or sleep. Or read a book. Or just about anything else than play D3 - it's not that hard.

OR you could just get both and stop choosing only one of them for a few bad reasons you probably won't notice anyway.

Besides, there's no release date for TL2, D3 is released in two days (well, 1 day and 2 hours for me).

Both because I have a job

I have Diablo 3 on order, I confess to some morbid curiousity about seeing how the AH system works... that and I'm a fan of the series and it's style/lore. To me it always struck me as a horror/fantasy hybrid, succeeding where things like "Ravenloft" arguably failed. Also Diablo 3 is using an art style that reminds me a LOT of the old PnP Planescape products which I liked a lot (do not confuse this with the Planescape video game, which was also excellent).

What I really want is another "Sacred" game, Sacred being like an open-world Diablo, but I don't know if the company that made that series even exists anymore, and I notice Sacred 2 isn't up on STEAM anymore (not to mention the expansion pack never making it to the US, allegedly because the company couldn't afford localization). I preferred the way they did the game/world than the linear dungeon crawl experience.

Torchlight 2 is something I'll probably try when it goes down in price.

If I had to choose it'd be Torchlight 2. Mainly because I don't need to be online to play by myself. Which is stupid.

The Cool Kid:

Abandon4093:

The Cool Kid:

The art style has changed - it is far more colourful and lighter.
Why? Because as they did with SC2, I think the engine is just a heavily modified WoW engine. The aesthetics in D3 are close to going the entirely wrong way. Diablo 3 should be dark, gritty and more like Silent Hill and less like World of Warcraft.

That's not the art style, it's the way the engine renders.

The way the characters and environments are designed is in keeping with the style the original two games set.

The engine simply has dynamic lighting and doesn't render things grainy anymore. This makes it brighter and a whole lot easier to look at.

To have the engine render like that was an artistic choice. When you make an engine, it can look like Crysis, STALKER, Portal or WoW; it's up to the management to decide how the engine should perform; it's not pot-luck as to how an engine will end up looking.

Never said it was pot luck. But the art style still hasn't changed. The fact that it now renders in 1080pi instead of 350pi changes the way it looks too... is that a change in art style?

No, it is not keeping in style with the original two games. Having played all three(and btw the third is sitting on my desk so I'm not bias) the third has a far smoother, more colourful look to it, and that's not down to AA or some other technical reason.

Yes it is, the creature design, environment themes, the adornments, clothing and character designs are all in keeping with the original Diablo games.

The third is smoother because it isn't sprites anymore which fir together easier if they're squared off and the engine doesn't render grainy. That doesn't suddenly nullify the art direction behind it.

My biggest gripe with the game isn't actually the in-game graphics; they do the job quite well. It's actually the inventory, and considering how often you will be looking at it, it's a valid complaint. Let's compare D2 and 3's inventory:



As you can see, the latter is far, far more colourful and barely adheres to the gothic theme of the previous instalments as the previous games went for realistic looking items whereas D3 has gone down a cartoon-ish route. Honestly, it looks like a HUD mod for WoW.

...................................... It's a fucking menu screen man. They change all the time within franchises without people claiming the art style has been changed or whatever else.

Ohhhhh no, the menus have changed. It's not the same art style as the previous games..... woe is me.

I was watching a preview video of Torchlight 2 earlier today, someone playing a beta version of the game, and one thing that absolutely stood out to me was the genuinely brilliant music. Like the first Torchlight they've got Matt Uelmen doing the soundtrack, same guy who did the soundtrack for Diablo 1 and 2, and it sounds so damned creepy and ambient. It sounds wonderful, the guys a genius when it comes to that sort of ambient background music!

By contrast what few examples of Diablo 3's soundtrack I've heard, while good, just didn't have that same vibe and style to them. Maybe it's just because Matt Uelmen is sort of synonymous with Blizzards earlier work (He also did the original Starcraft soundtrack) but the orcherstral scores for their recent games have just sort of seemed... off. Less memorable.

Maybe that's just me however. Whatever the case I'll definitely be buying Torchlight 2, no question. As for Diablo 3, I'm taking a cautious wait and see approach as I have a friend with similar tastes to myself who was in the beta and ended up disliking it.

diablo 3 support will be over 90000, it will last (i hope) then the time it took to release.

I find it bizarre that some people complain about Diablo 3's aesthetics, as if they are a downgrade of Diablo 2's. As much as I loved that game, it simply doesn't compare to todays standards, just like nearly every other old game.

Diablo 3's atmosphere and environments look 10 times better than Diablo 2's. They're taking a lot more WoW approach, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Therumancer:
What I really want is another "Sacred" game, Sacred being like an open-world Diablo, but I don't know if the company that made that series even exists anymore, and I notice Sacred 2 isn't up on STEAM anymore (not to mention the expansion pack never making it to the US, allegedly because the company couldn't afford localization). I preferred the way they did the game/world than the linear dungeon crawl experience.

A new Sacred game could be fun - IF they would actually make a game that works properly. :P Has to be one of the most buggy games ever made.

"Oops, we forgot a lot of animations. Don't worry, we'll add them in patch 1.5 which is like the 15th patch."

They don't exist anymore (except the UK studio which I know nothing about).

I don't understand how anyone can say D3 is the same as D2.

-It's made by a wholly different team
-They replaced Matt Uelmen's atmospheric music with generic orchestral ones
-It uses Blizzard's generic disproportionate art design, the same mindset for it's aesthethics as they have for Warcraft and Starcraft. It's no longer immersive,medieval and grounded in history/reality, they overdesign everything. Case in point: this vs This
-They overuse partical effects for skills and instead of toning it down, they limit the amount of players per game
-It has draconian drm

Elmoth:
-It has draconian drm

Requiring you to be connected to the internet is draconian?

I've been playing games on computer for about 15 years. I have NEVER encountered a problem with a game and DRM.

Elamdri:

Elmoth:
-It has draconian drm

Requiring you to be connected to the internet is draconian?

I've been playing games on computer for about 15 years. I have NEVER encountered a problem with a game and DRM.

As I suspected one should never make a list of points against something on a forum since people like you will just ignore it and counter only the weakest point, being the only point they can contest properly, apparantly.

Elmoth:

Elamdri:

Elmoth:
-It has draconian drm

Requiring you to be connected to the internet is draconian?

I've been playing games on computer for about 15 years. I have NEVER encountered a problem with a game and DRM.

As I suspected one should never make a list of points against something on a forum since people like you will just ignore it and counter only the weakest point, being the only point they can contest properly, apparantly.

Le sigh.

-It's made by a wholly different team
-They replaced Matt Uelmen's atmospheric music with generic orchestral ones
-It uses Blizzard's generic disproportionate art design, the same mindset for it's aesthethics as they have for Warcraft and Starcraft. It's no longer immersive,medieval and grounded in history/reality, they overdesign everything. Case in point: this vs This
-They overuse partical effects for skills and instead of toning it down, they limit the amount of players per game
-It has draconian drm

So what if it's made by a wholly different team? It's not like they can't reproduce the same feel of the original with different people.

...Diablo 2's music was orchestral as well. And I like Diablo 3's music.

What's over designed? They updated the Hydra, so what. It looks BETTER now. That's good.

Again, some of us like particle effects. And having too many people in a Diablo game would get crowded. 4 is a good number. 4 is easy to balance around.

Elamdri:

Elmoth:

Elamdri:

Requiring you to be connected to the internet is draconian?

I've been playing games on computer for about 15 years. I have NEVER encountered a problem with a game and DRM.

As I suspected one should never make a list of points against something on a forum since people like you will just ignore it and counter only the weakest point, being the only point they can contest properly, apparantly.

Le sigh.

-It's made by a wholly different team
-They replaced Matt Uelmen's atmospheric music with generic orchestral ones
-It uses Blizzard's generic disproportionate art design, the same mindset for it's aesthethics as they have for Warcraft and Starcraft. It's no longer immersive,medieval and grounded in history/reality, they overdesign everything. Case in point: this vs This
-They overuse partical effects for skills and instead of toning it down, they limit the amount of players per game
-It has draconian drm

So what if it's made by a wholly different team? It's not like they can't reproduce the same feel of the original with different people.

...Diablo 2's music was orchestral as well. And I like Diablo 3's music.

What's over designed? They updated the Hydra, so what. It looks BETTER now. That's good.

Again, some of us like particle effects. And having too many people in a Diablo game would get crowded. 4 is a good number. 4 is easy to balance around.

It's a different team that doesn't get how Blizzard North designed Diablo and it's world.
How can you look at that hydra and think that's not ridiculously designed?

8 people in one D2 game wasn't crowded, and it had less obtrusive particle effects.

Baal was a big monster, he had a very monstrous design. In D3 one of those demons that transform from cultists have more monstrous features.

Blizzard North's artists were subtle, modern blizzard artists just wants to make things cool.

Modern Blizzard vs Blizzard North

Diablo 3. Because of the Monk's ridiculousness and the Demon Hunter. Oh and the story and the fact I probably would never be able to get Torchlight 2. Also Torchlight one looked strange to play.

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