Nintendo - Time Is Running Out

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Yeah, sales mean nothing. Gaming isn't about the money.

lol

no

Nintendo will be fine. the fact they reported they're first annual loss, ever, means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

partly dominating the handheld market? as far as dedicated portable gaming platforms go, its running that shit (no, smart phones don't count, those are PHONES) and the Vita is no competition at all, it'll fail like the other two PSPs did and for the same reasons

as for the console race >.> Nintendo is the only one that made a profit of they system, no they didn't have the brown-a-thons the PS3 or 360 had (when it wasn't RRoDing) but a funny thing, Sony and Microsoft, don't own the rights most those big sellers, so 'how much they sold', doesn't really mean shit for them profit wise, and make no mistake, both Sony and Microsoft have been losing money on they consoles. a LOT of money.

in short, you should be more worried about your PS3 or 360 not being around much longer, not Nintendo

Jitters Caffeine:

Yup, I think they'll do just fine. They survived the first big industry crash, and it only made them stronger.

Oh, definetly. Thing is though, they were:

a)Barely in the market at the time. Here are their products in 1983:

image

image

Granted, there were many variations of those products, but the first was a Pong console only availible in Japan, and the second didn't have any competition. And was not really visible.

b)Barely any presence in North America. The crash happened there, and Atari was only brought down because it was the biggest player in that market.

I have no doubts that Nintendo will remain strong. I do think that the WiiU might not do so hot, and that might kick Nintendo out of the hardware market, but that's conjecture. It's just that it surviving the North American Video Game Crash of 1983 doesn't count for much in it's case. Heck, even Activision and Atari survived, in weakened form.

Grey Day for Elcia:

SmarterThanYou:

Grey Day for Elcia:

The handheld market, although still partially dominated by the NDS, didn't offer much else to fans, with a mirrored fate to that of its big brother, the Wii; no games came out and soon everyone forgot they owned the little buggers.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...hahaha...

Seriously, that was a good one.

You know Angry Birds for iOS is the highest selling game ever, yeah? The app market sells a metric fuck ton more games than the DS or the 3DS even comes close to.

o.o .... i'm confused, .... sell? Angry Birds is free dood.

so until some one actually throws out how much they are really making off the game it self, I'm not inclined to humor any game that if free to play with out sales figures to back it up

Lunar Templar:

Grey Day for Elcia:

SmarterThanYou:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...hahaha...

Seriously, that was a good one.

You know Angry Birds for iOS is the highest selling game ever, yeah? The app market sells a metric fuck ton more games than the DS or the 3DS even comes close to.

o.o .... i'm confused, .... sell? Angry Birds is free dood.

so until some one actually throws out how much they are really making off the game it self, I'm not inclined to humor any game that if free to play with out sales figures to back it up

"Angry Birds became the top-selling paid application on Apple's UK App Store in February 2010, and reached the top spot on the US App Store a few weeks later, where it remained until October 2010. Since release, the free, limited version of Angry Birds has been downloaded more than 11 million times for Apple's iOS, and the full-featured paid version has been downloaded nearly 7 million times as of September 2010. The Android version of the game was downloaded more than 1 million times within the first 24 hours of release, even though the site crashed at one point due to the load, and over 2 million downloads in its first weekend. Rovio receives approximately US$1 million per month in revenue from the advertising that appears in the free Android version."

- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Birds for sources.

"By May 2012, the game had reached 1 billion downloads, including Angry Birds, Angry Birds Seasons, Angry Birds Rio and Angry Birds Space. On Christmas Day 2011 alone, 6.5 million copies of the various Angry Birds games were downloaded across all supported platforms."

- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angry_Birds for sources.

"What's your thoughts?" You mean what ARE my thoughts?

Since people generally suck at predicting the future, I think I'll just take your prophet of doom rant with a grain of salt and wait and see.

Lunar Templar:
and make no mistake, both Sony and Microsoft have been losing money on they consoles. a LOT of money.

in short, you should be more worried about your PS3 or 360 not being around much longer, not Nintendo

Yes this is the point I made earlier.Both MS and Sony have lost a shit ton of money due to their gaming divisions.The 360 only finally became profitable for MS last year,5 years after launch.Sony's gaming division recorded a loss of $2.8 billion last year(over 5 times Nintendo's losses)which accounted for almost half of Sony's overall losses($5.7 billion in total)forcing Sony to axe 10,000 jobs worldwide

Yet we never hear anyone predicting doom for either of these companies

MetalDooley:

Lunar Templar:
and make no mistake, both Sony and Microsoft have been losing money on they consoles. a LOT of money.

in short, you should be more worried about your PS3 or 360 not being around much longer, not Nintendo

Yes this is the point I made earlier.Both MS and Sony have lost a shit ton of money due to their gaming divisions.The 360 only finally became profitable for MS last year,5 years after launch.Sony's gaming division recorded a loss of $2.8 billion last year(over 5 times Nintendo's losses)which accounted for almost half of Sony's overall losses($5.7 billion in total)forcing Sony to axe 10,000 jobs worldwide

Yet we never hear anyone predicting doom for either of these companies

Another point to bear in mind is that neither Sony or Microsoft are dedicated gaming companies. Sony is an electronics manufacturer that makes most of its money from hi-fi systems and TVs, and Microsoft's entire empire is pretty much built off software. Both companies got into gaming because they thought they'd be a good way to get their respective names out to wider, younger demographics, which they have to a certain extent. However, because they are not dedicated gaming companies, there's nothing to keep them in the medium when things aren't going so well.

If Nintendo's finances aren't doing so hot, then what they need to do is usually pretty clear: focus on making their relevant gaming experiences better and more appealing. We've seen this in the way they slashed the price of the 3DS, how they responded to criticism of Twilight Princess and incorporated it into Skyward Sword, how they've tried to improve the online features of the 3DS and up-coming Wii U... Nintendo is a games company, and that means their performance as a company is directly tied to the performance of their games and consoles.

Microsoft and Sony don't have this. If their finances aren't doing quite so hot, then they may well look at how to improve their gaming services. But conversely, they may listen to their shareholders, and realise that gaming is actually not that profitable a venue for them. They've both been throwing billions into gaming, and from what I've heard, shareholders are getting less and less impressed with the fact that gaming has pretty much become a money-sucking black hole for both companies. If you're throwing billions of dollars into an industry and expecting a loss, then it doesn't matter how big you are as a company, that is going to end up hurting you. Microsoft and Sony may have started turning a profit on production of consoles last year, but I would imagine that's only because of how old and out-of-date their production parts are. In reality, both companies have got 7 years worth of accumulated expenses that they've made very little dent in. Game royalties and Xbox Live subscription fees can't hope to cover the expenses of getting the 360 out and all over the world, and poor Sony doesn't even have those subscription fees.

If Microsoft and Sony keep losing money, then eventually the demands of their own shareholders will pull them out of the gaming industry. If Nintendo keep losing money, the demands of their shareholders will drive them to be a bigger, better part of the gaming industry. That is the fundamental difference between the companies.

Karutomaru:
Yeah, sales mean nothing. Gaming isn't about the money.

Yup, tell that to the hundreds of talented people being laid off within the industry because sales didn't meet expectations.

Poor sales are not exclusive to bad games btw... some good and even great games have slipped under the view of the masses because some generic piece of shit sequel came out and everyone was hungry for a numerical increase to the exact same shit they played last year.

Granted, I would prefer an industry where the quality of the game was more important then the size of the market it's aimed at. But that's not the case... niche games are dying within the industry, Indie Developers still succumb to playing it safe (more of the same with a different name) and the new Crowdfunding movement, though optimistic, is likely going to fall hard before it actually goes anywhere new.

Your view is idealistic, and actually kind of heartening, but not true.

As long as the final product is of high quality, it doesn't matter who gets laid off. A good game company never cares about the money.

Alright hang on a second. Let me write this down.

Activision-Blizzard, EA-BioWare, PC Gaming, and now Nintendo on the list of things in the games industry that are "dying" while also being the top of the freaking industry.

Seems legit

Karutomaru:
As long as the final product is of high quality, it doesn't matter who gets laid off. A good game company never cares about the money.

I think you're confusing "good" with "stupid."

Developer: "Hey guys, we ran ourselves out of business, but our finished game is a masterpiece!"

Me: "Wonderful, are you going to be able to afford your rent this month?"

Developer: "No, but at least our fans will be happy!"

Me: "You poor, vulnerable idiot."

Zhukov:
Actually, last I checked they're still doing okay.

They recently reported their first annual loss. Ever.

I personally have absolutely zero interest in their products, but calls of their demise are drastically premature.

Annual loses aren't necessary for a failing company. They've suffered many quarterly losses before, which are enough to kill a company.

However, Nintendo still seems to be okay.

As I've said time and again, Nintendo needs to come up with new stuff that actually works. Granted something like the XBox 360 is safe and marketable and yes, if PS3 sales take a dip, Sony still has it's tv's they can rely on for profit, but the point is, they come up with new stuff. All Nintendo ever seems to do is make same four games over and over again, and they have been at it for the past thirty years. Even the Wii is just the next step up from the Power Glove, which also didn't work.

The ''Nostalgic Fanboys'' are gonna run out at some point in time, i'm guessing about ten years from now. Then what? Are they also going to make tv's? Ones that you can control by shaking your head?

Basically, I feel like the R&D is the least funded part of Nintendo. Nothing new, nothing original, it just arrives in a shinier jacket.

Karutomaru:
As long as the final product is of high quality, it doesn't matter who gets laid off.

So you don't care about people losing their jobs and companies going bankrupt just so you can play a game? That's pretty fucking harsh.

Karutomaru:
A good game company never cares about the money.

I really can't be bothered explaining to you yet again why this doesn't make any sense.

Hey, guess what, no matter how you feel about them, they will be around far longer than you.
As a matter of fact, the Nintendo Corporation has been around longer than you.
They know what they're doing, and millions of people love them, and you're not a market analyst. You're just a hater.
Shut up.

Henkie36:
As I've said time and again, Nintendo needs to come up with new stuff that actually works. Granted something like the XBox 360 is safe and marketable and yes, if PS3 sales take a dip, Sony still has it's tv's they can rely on for profit, but the point is, they come up with new stuff. All Nintendo ever seems to do is make same four games over and over again, and they have been at it for the past thirty years. Even the Wii is just the next step up from the Power Glove, which also didn't work.

The ''Nostalgic Fanboys'' are gonna run out at some point in time, i'm guessing about ten years from now. Then what? Are they also going to make tv's? Ones that you can control by shaking your head?

Basically, I feel like the R&D is the least funded part of Nintendo. Nothing new, nothing original, it just arrives in a shinier jacket.

Funny, because you are absolutely wrong on every level.
If the nostalgic fan boys were going to run out, they would have.
And who knows, they probably did. But did you notice that Nintendo is still running strong? Could it be because their games can appeal to EVERYONE, not just 30 year old dudes who were there at the start?

Hey, do you guys remember about 12 years ago when market analysts were telling us that the DreamCast was going to absolutely bury the PS2?

Nintendo is going to be fine. They're still releasing consoles (which people will buy) they're still releasing a pretty fair number of titles per year, and they're still going strong with fans while still doing things that can bring in new fans.

Nintendo has been around since 1889, people (and no, that's not a typo) they aren't going to suddenly go under just because the 3DS was off to a rocky start or because Kid Icarus received some negative criticism.

Karutomaru:
Yeah, sales mean nothing. Gaming isn't about the money.

It is.

For the people who make them anyway. It is an industry industries try to make money.

verdant monkai:

Karutomaru:
Yeah, sales mean nothing. Gaming isn't about the money.

It is.

For the people who make them anyway. It is an industry industries try to make money.

I see a lot of people trying to insist this guy was wrong. It seems to me he was being sarcastic, and you all took it literally.

Karutomaru:
Who cares about how popular they are? The point is the quality of their games.

Er, they do, because they need their games to be popular in order to make money.

Lugbzurg:
I see a lot of people trying to insist this guy was wrong. It seems to me he was being sarcastic, and you all took it literally.

The thing is, it's what he always says.

Zachary Amaranth:

Zhukov:
Actually, last I checked they're still doing okay.

They recently reported their first annual loss. Ever.

I personally have absolutely zero interest in their products, but calls of their demise are drastically premature.

Annual loses aren't necessary for a failing company. They've suffered many quarterly losses before, which are enough to kill a company.

However, Nintendo still seems to be okay.

How exactly can a quarterly loss kill a company if the losses are balanced out by the profits from the rest of the year? Unless you manage to lose all your money in a single quarter, that's not going to happen. And need I remind you of the ENORMOUS pile of money Nintendo is sitting on?

Bhaalspawn:
Alright hang on a second. Let me write this down.

Activision-Blizzard, EA-BioWare, PC Gaming, and now Nintendo on the list of things in the games industry that are "dying" while also being the top of the freaking industry.

Seems legit

Karutomaru:
As long as the final product is of high quality, it doesn't matter who gets laid off. A good game company never cares about the money.

I think you're confusing "good" with "stupid."

Developer: "Hey guys, we ran ourselves out of business, but our finished game is a masterpiece!"

Me: "Wonderful, are you going to be able to afford your rent this month?"

Developer: "No, but at least our fans will be happy!"

Me: "You poor, vulnerable idiot."

How is that guy an idiot? Apparently he made a masterpiece and his fans are happy! He did his job! He should be proud!

I remember seeing in the Q&A section of an old Gamepro magazine someone commenting that Nintendo should go the Sega route and stop making hardware and focus mainly on software. Reason being Nintendo was going downhill, they needed to do that to remain relevant, etc.

This was in 2001.

Like every company, they have their highs and lows. Do you know how much money the Wii has made since release? In 2009 it had made about $270 billion. That's about $90 billion per year, at the time. That's not counting the DS. That's not counting the 3DS. That's not counting the first-party games, ie Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Bros, SSBB, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime, etc. That's not counting Virtual Console sales.

Just because they're not making as much profit right now at the moment doesn't mean they're not still lighting their cigars with $100 bills.

Nintendo is doing fine.

I honestly think I have that Gamepro issue.

Karutomaru:

Bhaalspawn:
Alright hang on a second. Let me write this down.

Activision-Blizzard, EA-BioWare, PC Gaming, and now Nintendo on the list of things in the games industry that are "dying" while also being the top of the freaking industry.

Seems legit

Karutomaru:
As long as the final product is of high quality, it doesn't matter who gets laid off. A good game company never cares about the money.

I think you're confusing "good" with "stupid."

Developer: "Hey guys, we ran ourselves out of business, but our finished game is a masterpiece!"

Me: "Wonderful, are you going to be able to afford your rent this month?"

Developer: "No, but at least our fans will be happy!"

Me: "You poor, vulnerable idiot."

How is that guy an idiot? Apparently he made a masterpiece and his fans are happy! He did his job! He should be proud!

Except now the guy can't come back to make any other games, and this has quite literally been the masterpiece that destroyed his career, like George Lucas with Revenge of the Sith.

So, game developers shouldn't care about money as long as they make something great the fans will love?

image

If I was a game developer and I had a choice between being hired by Electronic Arts or going into the highly risky business of indie games, I know what one I'd take. The one that insures I can eat breakfast in the morning.

Lastly, as a wise man once said: "Fans are clingly complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it."

Remember the crybaby tantrums about the Star Wars prequels? The Mass Effect 3 ending? Anything that has the letters E or A stamped anywhere on the box?

If I was a game developer, I'd say to my fans "If you don't like it, you shouldn't have bought the game, go cry to someone else. You have no sympathy from me."

Lugbzurg:

verdant monkai:

Karutomaru:
Yeah, sales mean nothing. Gaming isn't about the money.

It is.

For the people who make them anyway. It is an industry industries try to make money.

I see a lot of people trying to insist this guy was wrong. It seems to me he was being sarcastic, and you all took it literally.

No that's the thing he is being in no way sarcastic. I remember having almost the exact same conversation, with him a while ago about whether Capcom care about people or not.

He lives in a beautiful fantasy land where companies exist to make people happy, and are not really interested in profits.
Or he is a Nintendo employee trying to spread propaganda

Lol, Nintendo is relevant anymore? What? "no games came out and no one knew what to do with their little white rectangles" I have gotten more use out of my Wii than I have both the other consoles combined.

As long as SOMEONE likes it, and it has pleased many a critic, that's fine. Even if I'm not a fan of it, I can still respect it.

"I don't like Nintendo anymore so they are doomed to fail"

That's all I got from your post.

Nintendo posted their first EVER loss for about half a billion dollars.
"DOOOOM! DOOM! NINTENDO IS DOOMED! THAT'S WHAT THEY GET FOR BETRAAAAAAAYING US HARDCORE GAMERS!"

Sony not only has been losing money for multiple consecutive years, this year lost about (edit since I found out how much the gaming division specifically lost) FIVE TIMES what Nintendo lost.
"Meh. They'll be ok."

It's like the "hardcore" crowd is looking for retribution for the company that decided to try to appeal to a different demographic instead of people who have been playing games all their lives. Fancy that.

There were enough "hardcore" games for the Wii for it to justify its existance. It was the only console that understood the idea of backwards compatibility, and it allowed me to download some of my favorite older games.

While I worry about what will happen when Nintendo goes fully online, I at least see the eShop on the 3DS as precedent that they're not only willing to fix problems when they arise, but can handle digital sales competently. Microsoft, on the other hand announced they plan to put more advertisements on the 360, which will likely carry over to its successor. And Sony still hasn't learned its lesson about the never-ending firmware updates for their products. Guess what system I'm more excited for.

Grey Day for Elcia:
*Angry Birds is number one selling application etc.*

OK, so you've proven that Angry Birds is a really really big hit. Like, the biggest hit.

But unless you're suggesting that people are going to buy Angry Birds and no other game ever in their lives, that doesn't actually hold as much relevance as you might think. Because, ya know, people can buy more then one game these days.

Karutomaru:
How is that guy an idiot? Apparently he made a masterpiece and his fans are happy! He did his job! He should be proud!

He did his job, yes. But his company is now non-existent. That means He has No more job.
Perhaps in your world, things are different, but as far as most of us are concerned, pride is all well and good, but it doesn't keep a company afloat, nor does it pay the bills. If you run your company into the ground with a project, the chances are the company's going to collapse before the product is finished, and that means a lot of pretty much wasted work and a dead company. Which is a near-suicidal risk.

Active Schizophrenic:
Lol, Nintendo is relevant anymore? What? "no games came out and no one knew what to do with their little white rectangles" I have gotten more use out of my Wii than I have both the other consoles combined.

I envy you, what did you play. I liked Zelda T.P and RE4 and that was it.

I've never owned a Nintendo product but the company contributes to the industry as a whole by creating games that are friendly to gamers of all ages and not the core demographic in their late twenties, early thirties.

Nintendo does not compete directly with Microsoft or Sony.

They offer very similar products that are designed, marketed and sold to entirely different demographics, and although there is some overlap between the audience of both markets they are in the end completely different.

Nintendo's biggest competition instead comes from free or near-free games on personal computers, Ipads and other mobile devices. To use a piece of personally-experienced anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine at work who is a mother of two small children ended up buying a second Ipad because her children had co-opted hers to play games on. Decades ago that would've had a fair chance of being a Nintendo sale, but in this case they didn't even get a look in.

Nintendo is not going anywhere in the short to mid-term, but unless it wants to fade slowly into irrelevance over the long-term the company will need to radically rethink the way it does business from the ground floor to the executive suite. I just hope that whatever they come up with, they stay true to the ethos of making games for children that adults can enjoy too.

I'm starting to like threads like this.
They usually make no sense, have lots of falls information and make me laugh.

First of all, lets put down the useless, overused and fall argument that Nintendo has only a handful of games.
Nintendo has more first party titles than any other company related to gaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_published_by_Nintendo
They do focus on some more than on others, some even ignoring completely. But every company keeps pushing the product that sells more than those that don't.

Second, the Wii was a success. People like to overlook all the good game and just look at the shovelware. Whether you like the game or not isn't part of the debate. There are good games.

That's already more interesting games on the Wii than on the other 2 consoles.
The xBox has nothing of interest to me, PS3 has some games, including Little Big Planet. Every other interesting game is multi platform and you can't give credit for such a game to a console.

Also this:

Maybe my math is bad, but isn't 10 out of 20 something like 50%? How come that a company that holds 50% of the top selling games in the US is doing bad? And don't make me pull the Japanese charts where we can even see that 8 out of the top 10 are Nintendo games.

Than there is this rather interesting news.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2012/05/video-game-sales-hit-five-month-sales-slide/1#.T7AlhestjfL

Also noted by Frazier: The Nintendo 3DS has outsold the Nintendo DS by about 1 million units in their respective first 14 months in the market "and the DS went on to become the best-selling gaming hardware system ever."

Nintendo has said that it sold 4.5 million 3DS systems in the U.S. in its first year of availability.

What iz I reading? Za doomed console sells better than za best selling console evah? IMPOSSIBRU!!!
But now seriously, do you think that such numbers will keep developer away from the 3DS, or will they try to take a part of the player base?

Than lets not forge the next console which is also doomed according to guys like OP.

THQ: "WiiU is just alot more powerful than current HD consoles it does 1080p very easy."

Crytek: "WiiU devkits are very powerful,the specs are very good"

Vigil Games: "We had the game at the same level as high end pc version in a matter of days and a few lines of code got the game up and running on tablet in 5 mins."

Epic: "It will do things current HD consoles simply cant do its going to be a powerful box."

EA: "Wii U is not a transitional platform, it is a true next generation system."

Do I really need to add anything?
Or do you believe more the anonymous sources with bad grammar and obviously falls information?

Your thoughts OP?

verdant monkai:

Active Schizophrenic:
Lol, Nintendo is relevant anymore? What? "no games came out and no one knew what to do with their little white rectangles" I have gotten more use out of my Wii than I have both the other consoles combined.

I envy you, what did you play. I liked Zelda T.P and RE4 and that was it.

I played Sengoku Basara, Xenoblade, Madworld, Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Dead Space: Extraction, Clash of Ninja Revolution 3, the King of Fighters' Orochi Saga, and No More Heroes.

Grey Day for Elcia:
ker snip

ah ... yeah, that'd do it ...

though why its as popular is it is confuses me, its not really that good.

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