It doesn't matter how good Blizzard is with security. There is RL money to be made from the auction house. People will hack. This isn't like a bank account, with a pin number, social security number, bank account number, birth date, authentication questions, and much more all acting as security. It's a username and password. And its darn difficult to prove what were legitimate trades and what were hacked trades. People will hack, and there's nothing Blizzard can do to stop it.
Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
EDIT: I don't think people will pay real life money on the auction house if they stand to lose it from hacking. Also, when the auction house goes live, these items will have a value in RL currency. Does this mean there's a possibility to prosecute the hackers with robbery? Like stealing from somebody's house or something? Or have past cases shown that this isn't likely?
Here's a thought. Just lemme run it by ya, see what you think. What if it was not, in fact, a bunch of beady-eyed little hackers in basemants who took all that crap. Now I'm not saying that a certain well-known company owned by highly reputable sleazy scumbags would ever resort to, er, "confiscating" items from its own userbase to increase their revenue stream... or more precisely, that a certain someone (or someones) at that company would have a hand in... underhanded dealings as a little diversion to get some extra cash in the pocket, but, you know, just think a bit on it.
I don't feel bad for people who's accounts have been hacked. That's their punishment for supporting always-on DRM. I hope it gets worse. I hope it spreads like wildfire and causes massive panic among Diablo 3 community, and I hope it never gets fixed. Perhaps that's what it takes for Blizzard to patch in an offline mode.
So in a Machiavellian-esque method of protecting the legitimate customers of your product you tell them to change their password and get an authenticator, though it has not really shown to be effective. On top of that ban the victims of the hacking because they don't know how to stop or can't stop the hacker, and Blizzard is incompetent and impotent in their defense of their customers. I mean you can't even call it triage because all it's protecting is the validity of their real-money auction house.
Stay classy, Blizzard, you greedy bastards. Stay classy.
Prosis: Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
Isn't it that most of the game data (loot drops, NPC A.I., etc.) is server side? Wouldn't patching out the always online feature render the game unplayable? (Unless they somehow managed a REALLY big patch/a bunch of small patches in order to put offline functionality in the game.)
At this point Blizzard painted themselves into a corner with D3. Kind of sad in a way, but hopefully this DRM problem won't crop up as much now. (Wishful thinking but still...)
I'm betting they're gold sellers. Now that they have a legitimate way to basically sell gold (RMAH), they try to go one step beyond and jump into the questionable legality zone for more profit.
I was never a big fan of diablo, but if i was i would feel betrayed. I doubt they can make this game work without turning it into a gold sellers paradise. Maybe they want it to be a gold sellers paradise so they can get a cut of the profit.
Combine Rustler: Here's a thought. Just lemme run it by ya, see what you think. What if it was not, in fact, a bunch of beady-eyed little hackers in basemants who took all that crap. Now I'm not saying that a certain well-known company owned by highly reputable sleazy scumbags would ever resort to, er, "confiscating" items from its own userbase to increase their revenue stream... or more precisely, that a certain someone (or someones) at that company would have a hand in... underhanded dealings as a little diversion to get some extra cash in the pocket, but, you know, just think a bit on it.
That makes perfect sense! Blizzard wants to get people to stop playing the game entirely, so they engineered a scheme to make paltry little bits of money while alienate other potential consumers. It's such a fucking stupid idea, developed by some utter retard, that nobody would suspect it to be true.
Second that. Another reason to buy Torchlight 2 despite not really liking the first. Besides the price and the fact that Blizzard took everyone's money and didn't give them an even-barely-functional game in return. At least Skyrim could actually be played at all on day one by everyone who bought it.
That's what I'm looking at too. Got into the beta, and it is one heck of an improvement on Torchlight.
More on topic: Bahahaha. Sweet, sweet vindication. Oh, you are the most delicious of spites.
I'd like to start by extending my deepest sympathies to victims of the hacking (assuming it wasn't your own fault) and follow that by saying...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I can't wait to see what goes wrong next in this presumably cursed project.
It's worth noting that D3 accounts aren't just D3 accounts. People have been using battlenet to log into WoW for over a year now. Plenty of people playing D3 also play WoW. That battlenet accounts continue to get hacked after Diablo 3 is released should surprise no one. No one.
Good point: It's plausible that there are other goodies attached to those Bnet 2.0 accounts.
Also, the RMAH has very little to do with it. People have been getting hacked in WoW, which doesn't have a RMAH, for years - almost a decade. Item duping was probably a major reason Diablo 2 accounts didn't get hacked.
Actually, Diablo 2 accounts *were* hacked into all the time, but only in significant numbers after the big Ladder-Runeword market opened up with 1.10 (Diablo 2.net, and others, had "gold" equivalent pricing for real money, similar to how gold farmers worked in WoW; the practice was largely overshadowed by WoW, because WoW is a much bigger market. But it did happen).
Soviet Heavy: Did they really expect this to stop pirates? When has DRM ever stopped hackers or pirates? Never, it only slows them down slightly. But an account highjacking scheme within a week of launch? That's pretty damn fast.
It's hardly surprising. A legal auction house where people can sell items to each other for real money, readily available to all. It's a farmers/hijackers dream. And Blizzard know it.
They had fucking proof it would happen too. FIFA '12 anyone?
Emiscary: Yay! More proof DRM is the digital equivalent of trying to placate protestors by calling them fags and telling them to go home.
IE: It just makes things worse.
Nah, personally I'd say it's more akin to to calling your own supporters fags and telling them to go home. After all, pirates don't have to deal with DRM at all, so what do they care?
OT: As much as I hate the idea that this disgustingly abusive game not only exists, but has sold very well, I doubt that the real money auction house would make much of a difference to the number of hackers. People often stole Diablo 2 accounts for much the same reason, and I think the auction house would only increase the competition in prices for this sort of thing, as now legitimate players are in on the item trading market. That said, if this sort of thing continues and cannot be permanently fixed by Blizzard (assuming it is a problem on their end), it makes the idea of charging real money for this stuff even more shameful than it already is.
I got Diablo 3 "free" due to having the WoW Annual Pass (a game I knew I was going to play for at least another year anyway)...
At this point, screw the free game, I don't like the idea that I count towards the sales statistic on this thing :o this always-online stuff is horrid.
Lunncal: Nah, personally I'd say it's more akin to to calling your own supporters fags and telling them to go home. After all, pirates don't have to deal with DRM at all, so what do they care?
OT: As much as I hate the idea that this disgustingly abusive game not only exists, but has sold very well, I doubt that the real money auction house would make much of a difference to the number of hackers. People often stole Diablo 2 accounts for much the same reason, and I think the auction house would only increase the competition in prices for this sort of thing, as now legitimate players are in on the item trading market. That said, if this sort of thing continues and cannot be permanently fixed by Blizzard (assuming it is a problem on their end), it makes the idea of charging real money for this stuff even more shameful than it already is.
"Internally I don't think [DRM] ever actually came up when we talked about how we want connections to operate. Things that came up were always around the feature-set, the sanctity of the actual game systems like your characters. You're guaranteeing that there are no hacks, no dupes. All of these things were points of discussion, but the whole copy protection, piracy thing, that's not really entering into why we want to do it. I'm a huge purveyor of online sites and from my standpoint, I don't look at DRM solutions and go, 'Wow, those are awesome.' I look at those and say, 'Wow, those kind of suck.' But if there's a compelling reason for you to have that online connectivity that enhances the gameplay, that doesn't suck. That's awesome."
Through the Beta there's already been MapHacks and Bots running around, one week after release they got their first mass account hacks and the MoneyMakingHouse isn't even up. This sure does bode well for guarantee that there are no hacks, dupes etc...
The funny thing is, without the Always-Online DRM and the RMAH this wouldn't be a problem at all for large parts of the playerbase. Single Player gamers aren't only safe from Blizzards servers going down or lagging, their connection making problems and being able to play the game but there's not really a possibility for hackers to get into your SP and steal your items or anything of the likes. Another thing would've been that they'd be pretty much worthless since it's not "money", so there wouldn't even be any reason to do it in the first place.
Of course this would have happened at some point, but this will likely increase to happen because they brought real money into it and forced players into that "environment", in Diablo II only a few tended to buy items, this time it's part of the model and "expected".
This is news why? I may be mean for saying this but anyone who didn't expect this kind of thing is a moron. Every online game has accounts being hacked. It doesn't matter if they have the strongest DRM or security on the planet, someone will have their account hacked.
...If an account suddenly trades away items to someone else and the first account claims they were hacked, look at the IP of the traders and the original account at the time.
If someone logs out from one IP, logs into another IP and immediately trades their stuff away to another account FOR FREE...
Of course this would have happened at some point, but this will likely increase to happen because they brought real money into it and forced players into that "environment", in Diablo II only a few tended to buy items, this time it's part of the model and "expected".
Only a few tended to buy items back then, because the only way to do so was to trust that the other party wouldn't completely rip you off, and even then there wouldn't be any guarantee that the item was obtained legally instead of being from a save editor. But now that there's a way to protect against getting ripped off, and ensure a legit product, people are more open to the concept. People are going to do it anyway, so why not provide a safe environment in which to do it?
It doesn't matter how good Blizzard is with security. There is RL money to be made from the auction house. People will hack. This isn't like a bank account, with a pin number, social security number, bank account number, birth date, authentication questions, and much more all acting as security. It's a username and password. And its darn difficult to prove what were legitimate trades and what were hacked trades. People will hack, and there's nothing Blizzard can do to stop it.
Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
The problem here is that the hacking of accounts won't stop. At best it might just slow down. Remove the RMAH and you have the third party auction houses that flood Diablo 2. There is still every reason to continue hacking accounts for gold, gems and gear. You'd just be selling to a smaller group of buyers now.
Not that I'd be opposed to an offline mode. I'd play Diablo 3 exclusively offline if allowed.
It doesn't matter how good Blizzard is with security. There is RL money to be made from the auction house. People will hack. This isn't like a bank account, with a pin number, social security number, bank account number, birth date, authentication questions, and much more all acting as security. It's a username and password. And its darn difficult to prove what were legitimate trades and what were hacked trades. People will hack, and there's nothing Blizzard can do to stop it.
Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
The problem here is that the hacking of accounts won't stop. At best it might just slow down. Remove the RMAH and you have the third party auction houses that flood Diablo 2. There is still every reason to continue hacking accounts for gold, gems and gear. You'd just be selling to a smaller group of buyers now.
Not that I'd be opposed to an offline mode. I'd play Diablo 3 exclusively offline if allowed.
It would mean that people's RL money wouldn't be at risk. That is, money that they spent on the game. The only thing at risk would be gear and stuff, which was obtained with time, rather than money. Also, someone could choose to play offline, and thus avoid the risk of being hacked entirely.
But you're right. It wouldn't remove hacking. It would just decrease the number of hackers (smaller group of buyers=lower demand=less hackers IMO)
poiumty: Blizzard really screwed this up, didn't they.
ehm.... doesn't some of the blame lie with the people who hacked?
OT: I didn't really see this commin tbh. As far as I can tell the hackers seems to have hi-jacked chars and not account by some loophole in the friend lists. This at least means that your account bound data is safe. It also gives a nice insight into what data is tied to the account. If chars can be hijacked as separate entities, but shares gold among everyone on the account doesn't that mean your amount of currency is registered on your account and not char? If so there is a limit to how much dmg a person can do by taking the char.
I'm feeling vindicated in giving this game a pass.
Second that. Another reason to buy Torchlight 2 despite not really liking the first. Besides the price and the fact that Blizzard took everyone's money and didn't give them an even-barely-functional game in return. At least Skyrim could actually be played at all on day one by everyone who bought it.
Gonna play TL2 beta now before the beta weekend ends. It's mucho fun so far, definitely worth 20 bucks. No brainer, you want a Diablo-style dungeon crawler ARPG, TL2 is for you. Unless you've checked out Path of Exile, which some people are praising. I haven't checked that out though, so can't say anything.
Fun, semi-unconfirmed fact: There are more Diablo 1/2 devs working on Torchlight than there are working on Diablo 3.
Adam Jensen: I don't feel bad for people who's accounts have been hacked. That's their punishment for supporting always-on DRM. I hope it gets worse. I hope it spreads like wildfire and causes massive panic among Diablo 3 community, and I hope it never gets fixed. Perhaps that's what it takes for Blizzard to patch in an offline mode.
Although I do feel bad for these people. Some waited years for this game and hate the DRM as much as anyone, I kinda have to agree with this. They didn't ask for this, (I swear to God that connection is unintentional) they just want to play a game. But at the same time if this is what it takes to get rid of DRM then so be it.
It doesn't matter how good Blizzard is with security. There is RL money to be made from the auction house. People will hack. This isn't like a bank account, with a pin number, social security number, bank account number, birth date, authentication questions, and much more all acting as security. It's a username and password. And its darn difficult to prove what were legitimate trades and what were hacked trades. People will hack, and there's nothing Blizzard can do to stop it.
Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
The problem here is that the hacking of accounts won't stop. At best it might just slow down. Remove the RMAH and you have the third party auction houses that flood Diablo 2. There is still every reason to continue hacking accounts for gold, gems and gear. You'd just be selling to a smaller group of buyers now.
Not that I'd be opposed to an offline mode. I'd play Diablo 3 exclusively offline if allowed.
It would mean that people's RL money wouldn't be at risk. That is, money that they spent on the game. The only thing at risk would be gear and stuff, which was obtained with time, rather than money. Also, someone could choose to play offline, and thus avoid the risk of being hacked entirely.
But you're right. It wouldn't remove hacking. It would just decrease the number of hackers (smaller group of buyers=lower demand=less hackers IMO)
But by playing offline you would be putting everyone who wants to play online with oversight at risk. Im sorry but if the offline mode could carry the game people would still be playing torchlight. Oversight adds value. Like it or not Battlenet was the real key to Diablo 2 long life. Titan Quest doesn't have the same amount of players D2 still have. Oversight does make all the difference.
Im sorry but if the offline mode could carry the game people would still be playing torchlight. Oversight adds value. Like it or not Battlenet was the real key to Diablo 2 long life. Titan Quest doesn't have the same amount of players D2 still have. Oversight does make all the difference.
All people would like is the option to play it offline. I don't think anybody's saying that there shouldn't be an online mode at all, but what's stopping Blizzard from letting people create an exclusively offline character as an option? I bought Diablo II with no way to play the game online simply because I wanted to play it.
Wow. I didn't ever consider that.
It doesn't matter how good Blizzard is with security. There is RL money to be made from the auction house. People will hack. This isn't like a bank account, with a pin number, social security number, bank account number, birth date, authentication questions, and much more all acting as security. It's a username and password. And its darn difficult to prove what were legitimate trades and what were hacked trades. People will hack, and there's nothing Blizzard can do to stop it.
Honestly, I think at this point, they should remove the real money auction house feature, and offer a patch update so people can play offline.
EDIT: I don't think people will pay real life money on the auction house if they stand to lose it from hacking.
Also, when the auction house goes live, these items will have a value in RL currency. Does this mean there's a possibility to prosecute the hackers with robbery? Like stealing from somebody's house or something? Or have past cases shown that this isn't likely?