Dragon's Dogma: Poor Design Choices in Good Games Pages 1 2 3 NEXT | |
You forgot how the game essentially looks like a big skyrim mod. Fuck, it even has the same plot. Dragons want to destroy the world, stop them. That's it. | |
Yup there are some glaring holes in this, but as I said before if they were given another 2 years this game would be praised for decades, or if they only made a PC version where mods could fix their shit. My biggest issue is their art style, or should I say lack there of. | |
So far I like the game, but I have my own issues with it. First of all the HUD and menus are poorly designed and cumbersome. When I have to go to the inventory screen to use a health potion or equip some bomb thing, something is kinda wrong. It's not horrible, but it's kind of annoying. I don't really mind the graphics. They look alright from far enough away, but up close they're pretty muddy. A lock on feature would be nice, or a way to stop your attacks mid way through, since you can't, so if you initiate a long attack, you have to sit there and watch your character look like a goober until the animation is through, and by then one of those dipshits with a shield and sword will kill you. Blocking and dodging for EVERY vocation (classes) would be nice too. Also, the pawns are fucking stupid. I'm just gonna say it. They're dumb. And annoying. When they talked about pawns, I thought they'd be kinda like Dragon Age pawns, where they would have interesting personalities and back stories. Nope. They're not. They're fucking cannon fodder, and no... they won't shut up. So I just turn off the Pawn Subtitles and turn the voices down a bit, and it's more bearable. I think this game would be better if all you had was your single character. That's it. Like Skyrim. A multiplayer feature would be neat, where you could jump into someone's game and quest away. Other than these gripes, the game is pretty cool. Fighting monsters is fun. The actual fear of night is cool and an interesting twist on things. So there is plenty in this game to enjoy, but you have to deal with bad design choices along the way. | |
You sound pretty butthurt, just saying. As far as I've seen enemies don't level with you or anything, so maybe try, oh I don't know, doing other missions when enemies in one are kicking your ass? Even the loading screens tell you to do that. Ogres are a pain because they frenzy, then drop kick you for an instant kill (at least on my poor squishy sorcerer). Also ogres don't really have a weakness, which makes it even more of a pain when they frenzy because there's no big hit to pull off to finish them quickly. I don't see why you think this needs a multiplayer. I'm not saying one would be bad, but the pawns do their job, and actually pretty well. I decided I was actually impressed when my main pawn actually avoided a trap instead of walking into it. For my standard party the mage tosses out heals regularly to whomever needs it and gives element buffs dependent on enemy, my ranger mixes up bow and dagger very well instantly switching from catapulting an enemy attacking me across the world to hacking the next closest one to bits, and the fighter draws the aggro and tanks all the hits. Yeah they can be pretty chatty but I'm not too annoyed by it, plus they almost always are able to tell me exactly what to do since they've done the quest already (thankful for ones tip to pack light to a mission since I had to haul 5 heavy ass stones around when I got there) and they let you know when enemies are nearby that you may not see. Oh, plus it's nice to only manage equipment for two people instead of an entire cast. Which brings me to my personal main issue, cast. The NPCs are just...there. I mean true it's kind of nice I don't have everyone I meet giving me their life story, but still I'd like to at least have people I learn about better. I can't really remember anyone right now, other than a kid that I chased around because he didn't want to give up his home to a landlord trying to sell the land. To compensate I'm just building my own story in my head about characters, especially the Arisen since he doesn't talk or have any real choices. It's almost like...I want to say a single player game in an MMO world. Though with much better combat than an MMO. And no fast travel, which honestly I'm okay with. The world isn't too big and I can try new paths around areas, plus it'd be no fun to just fast travel when it gets so dark you can't see the road and things that are out there....waiting for you.... The world is kind meh too, fun to explore and all, but the world itself just feels off. Why are there all those ruins 50 feet away from the capital? I like the combat, and being a sorcerer is pretty damn fun. I definitely feel like I have power in this, plus the lightning whip is just cool. Pretty much the definition of a glass cannon though, I really have to avoid getting hit. I'm okay with not every class getting a dodge/block, because each fills their roles well. Sorcerer is raw power, I kill them before they kill me, plus hide behind all three pawns along with my own defensive abilities, ranger rolls around to avoid attacks and quickly pull off their own, and the fighter just takes hits blocking until an opening comes up. Worst case scenario everyone can sprint, and stamina shouldn't be much of an issue with all the meatba- er cow things roaming around. My doomsday spells as I like to call them seemed pretty bad in practicality until I maxed my vocation and got a passive to cast faster, so now it's meteors and earthquakes all day! TL;DR: Has fun combat, pawns that do their job, fun exploration (climbing up ledges and cliffs to find new paths), but lackluster story and characters. So basically a...y'know...action/adventure game. With few worthwhile characters. Play it to wreck enemies, not for an interesting world or characters (unless you use your head to make them interesting like me). Edit: I also find it kind of funny how I've heard a lot of people complain about too much fast travel, then as soon as it's taken away "WHAT IS THIS!?" I bet the reaction would be the same if a game takes away quest markers and does it Morrowind style like so many people praise. | |
That is the only annoyance I have with the game. So far i'm 6 hours in and loving it and i've hardly done anything. But that letterbox screen doesn't half get on my manly tits. | |
Yeah, but us Brits have put up with black borders in our games for many years. Cough, Cough... 50 hertz. | |
This game must be the hardest I've played without being cheap. I generally despise tough challenges in games because they're cheap more often than not. I gotta disagree with you on this. I've enjoyed tackling the challenges in DD in multiple ways. God forbid the game actually makes me think and not just get lucky. Sure, most of the approaches consist of finding the right path to avoid ridiculously powerful enemies but the game has those options there. It doesn't just force you into the same hopeless encounter just waiting to get lucky as is so often the case in poorly thought out game challenges. I don't play multiplayer and I can't play multiplayer so that's no loss for me. I do, however, love being able to recruit other players pawns. Switching them in and out to best suit the current state of the game is fantastic as is having to rely on other players to deliver a suitable and effective pawn. What I don't like is how hands off managing the pawns are. While the AI is the best I've ever encountered in a game, I dislike that you cannot equip other players pawns and you cannot even heal your own. They do a fair enough job on their own, however. Also a lot of time spent in menus. Even though I'm quickly boring of this RPGs have always been menu heavy. DD doesn't exactly have the worst menu design I've ever seen. Graphics make no nevermind to me. They suffice. I enjoy all the ruined fortresses, sweeping vistas and majestic beaches. I like that the world feels ruined and old. I enjoy the exploration and discovery immensely. And I love the pawns! Sure, they're chatty but I can easily ignore that. Comes from practice ignoring particularly chatty people quite a bit. I really do get attached to them. Lack of fast travel is a bore. The game is freaking huge and travel from one place to the next takes forever. Not to mention the numerous difficult encounters that will be had again and again along A to B. But I've been having $h!t-tons of fun with it. The complaints I have are minimal compared to the rest. | |
I'm kinda surprised it doesn't have multi, I mean it always looked to me like a western version of monster hunter and monster hunter was fuckawesome multi... kinda begs the question of why only the wii one really had multi here in the states. | |
Pretty much what I heard was that it was like if Skyrim, and Dragon age had a baby, but Skyrim was drinking during the pregnancy and Dragon age dropped it on its head. I'm still wondering if I should shell out the bucks for it though. I love my fantasy games. The character creation in the demo impressed the hell outta me. | |
Poor design choices to me mean something that is inconsistent or game breaking. Having completed the game, I can say none of these are either and amount to not liking the game for what it is - A challenging standard-setting fantasy RPG. It's like not liking a shooter for being a shooter. | |
This is a Capcom game. Is this really a suprise the game is unoriginal? Most likely people bought it for the RE6 demo AKA CoDs Zombie Mode with a story. | |
Wish I'd not read this now. I was all ready to go and buy this in a bit, but not sure anymore as that seemed like a pretty long list of gripes. I did get annoyed a bit on the demo with the pawns getting in my way all the time or "OMG'zszs steelin' mi killzs's", but......I relish a challenge and this seems as hard as an eskimo's nipples. Also, the black border thing. I didn't notice it on the demo (PS3), so whether this is an additional feature or something is a mystery to me. | |
The OP's gripes are...well to me exaggerated. The game can be challenging yes, but enemies don't level with you, so you will come across things you literally can't kill without lucking into it. That's the point you go around. There's one ogre that if you encounter early on destroys you, but you can actually bait it with an item and get around it. Pawns are chatty but it's not too annoying...most of the time. The land is nothing new but still quite fun to run around in and explore. The game is challenging, especially if you're a squishy mage and the enemies have decided they really hate you for some reason (there's also one part where a guy that was hunting you attacks and only goes for you. As a magic user, this is a big problem.) The pawns A.I. is actually really good, I was pretty impressed with it. Especially my rangers tendency to use an ability with her bow that always manages to drill the guy about to hit me across the nearest mountain. Just don't go into it expecting a grand story or amazing characters and you'll have plenty of fun. Besides, this is a game where magic actually feels powerful. Did you ever feel powerful by making a really great spell in Oblivion? Now instead of just a big explosion radius imagine causing the earth to erupt in front of you. Several times. Or call down meteors. Several times. | |
A lot of nitpicking in that OP. I'm loving the game, combat is fun and challenging, it never feels cheap and the world just feels alive. Great game. | |
I am pretty butthurt actually. I kind of hurts to be anally raped by an ogre.
No. Buy it. You missed the part where I admitted the game is amazing but couldn't talk about it because I was rampaging.
Shitty part: I didn't even notice it until a friend pointed it out.
It would be considered nitpicking if you absolutely don't care about the look of a game and would have been fine with it looking like a brown shooter on the N64. But I agree, great game.. | |
My biggest problem is the atrocious pop-in on the PS3 version, especially in that it city. Turn. Corner, stop, and five seconds later a guard pops in less than 3 feet in front of you. | |
Although i have not obtained the game and only played the demo, i feel i need to say i quite enjoyed the constant chat the pawns made, it enforced an strong sense of immersion for me. Eh, that may be i just haven't played it long enough or the fact i don't actually own the game | |
The chatter is immersive, and in the demo/start of the game it's nice. It's limited, it's a sectioned off part of the game. | |
Damn i really want to get this game. From my years of playing monster hunter, that ogre fight sounds amazing. I remember my first fight against a yian kut-ku, the easiest wyvern in monster hunter. Half an hour of frantically dodging fireballs, charges, tail whips, and side checks where each hit took out massive chunks out of my HP. I also remember at the start of the game thinking "hmm.. i have a 50 minute time limit for each mission. That's huge, and i only have to fight one thing, no way I'll ever run out of time!" aah how naive i was. Dammit Capcom, when i get this game it better have amazing giant monster battles. | |
Talks of the ball sack kickingly hard difficulty has me a tad worried. | |
I got pretty damn pissed because I just changed my main pawns class and while testing out my new moves accidentally hit a guard. Game autosaves as it puts me in jail costs all the money i have left to get out and now I can't afford new weapons for my pawn, his old weapons don't work. So he's unarmed. My biggest gripe is that It only allows ONE SAVE file. Really fucking dumb. Even Dark Soul's allowed you to have a few characters to test around with. 2nd point. You can tell your main pawn to not talk as much if you sit him down in the training chairs at certain places. | |
Is it possible to move save files to a PC then just swap out which one you want to play? | |
I'm sick of lack of multiplayer being used as a criticism. I haven't played the game myself, but it looks quite good to me. I don't need a friend or a stranger to join me in questing in an RPG. Also, to the best of my knowledge, the lack of fast travel is a design choice because of the day/night cycle. It wouldn't make the nights scary at all if you could just fast travel everywhere and ignore the threat that the dark brings. Even having random encounters wouldn't be the same as trekking though it, scared that something's going to eat you. | |
It's not all bad. There are some .. frustrating .. fights but that is more to do with the monsters insanely high health and high damage hits than anything else. Plenty of food/pots and make sure you have at least 1 mage in your party for healing purposes and it isn't too bad. Some of the fights (like Ogres and random Chimera pops) can take a while due to their high health but with hordes of health giving goodies you can outlast them. | |
I should not have spent $60 on this game. For years my friend always said "Rent the damn game first!" I learned my lesson. Don't buy this game. | |
The only real problem I have with the game is that it doesn't give you any direction. It just gets you to the big city, then you don't really know what the main objective is. I can't find anything to do. Most of the quests I have are, "kill x amount of y enemies," or, "collect x amount of y items." But those are all notice board quests, so they can't really be important. It's pretty hard to get started, too. You're weak as hell and everything is really hard, until you get around level 20 or 25. When you get there, it starts getting easier to handle. The only thing that kills me since I got to that level are falls from cliffs that don't allow me to double jump at the last second and just outright kill you, anyway. My one advice is to upgrade everything you wear. Don't save up all your money for better stuff, just spend it all on better stuff as you find it. I tried saving up, and it didn't help. Upgrading helps a ton. | |
Well yeah, but I shouldn't have to do that. | |
Oh I agree. But I'd like to have multiple characters so that's what I'll do then. | |
I'm sorry, but your "lack of multiplayer" argument is invalid in my mind. NOT EVERY GAME NEEDS MULTIPLAYER, and this is a good example. They included the importing of pawns, which I find is a nice addition, and that's all it needs. I prefer single player RPGs overall. And besides, you complain about the game being hard... but what challenge would there be if you could just have your max level buddy come help you out? At least you have to hire the pawns. I really like the game. It could be better. All games could be better. Verdict; stop being butthurt. | |
Not gonna lie: Until this was mentioned, I never even noticed. At all. D: I suppose it doesn't particularly bother me, though. Though, I disagree on the point that pawns don't do their job. I'm running my Mystic Knight with a Ranger and two Mages. Both Mages are capable of healing, and both are capable of dishing out high level magicks. Even if they aren't *quite* as powerful as a Sorcerer, I'll take the fact that they can both mob with two different spells each and that they can both heal, over stronger magic power. And I almost never even need to aid my pawns, because they just about never even fall. Shame that I don't even get to use those two augments for Mystic Knights about boosting them when I revive pawns. | |
So I am going to sum up the nitpicks from the OP here. 1: AI isn't as good as the player, 2: No multiplayer 3: The game is too hard 4: The AI companions will not stop talking about the gamke world buit should instead be lifeless robots with no opinions. 5: Medieval architecture looks like the same medieval architecture i see in other works of fiction. Why isn't the castle made of bubblegum or something unique! 6: There is so sort of disc error on my game that is causing texture issues, there for the game is at fault. 7: The HUD doesn't sparkle and dance for me. 8: Having a game world without being able to fast travel everywhere makes it feel too big! I want magical chariots and teleporting powers! Thats about all I can identify at the moment. I agree with a few other people here and have to say you sound extremely butthurt over minor details. The only thing out of all of these thagt I can voice some sympathy with is the lack of multiplayer; because indeed the game does seem like it was made for it, hwoever I cans ee how 4 arisens all running around and jacking around rather than following the main player could be a problem. I have no idea where the gripe about the lord of the ringish architecture came from, yeah theres castles that look like...castles; what else? then theres plains and mountains and beaches what the hell else do you expect from a natural world? The complain about having to walk too much and the game being too hard is just plain whining. You can purchase ferrystones to return yourself to the capital city from a quest to shorten the return journey and other than that having to do a 20 monute walk through unknown territory is a greatw ay to enjoy the awesome setpeices and really get an idea ion hjow hard the area your going to next can be. When it coems to difficulty level you either aren't relacing your pawns as frequently as you need to or you are building you team entirely wrong. I believe you mentioned having two mages at one point in this situation DO NOT have both of them have healing spells! This will cause a never ending chain of them healing each other and you instead of fighting! Either that ior you are in an area you ashouldnt be with your current gear. Also when your companions say stay well stocked on curatives THEY MEAN IT. running out of stamina at the wrong time is deadly and running out of health is obviously worse. keeps tocked on potions and ingredients as they are the only thing that can heal you past you regen limit on the field | |
I run around with two Mages that can heal, all the time. Neither of them spend all their time healing. More often than not, only one of them is ever healing at any given time. The other one's using something like High Comestion or Ingle, or High Levin to actually fight. I think you got a pair of overly-protective pawns. :[] | |
Paying off now though. My experience with the borders in Dragon's Dogma was: "Oh small borders" and then I blanked them out like the old days. They are pretty small compared to some of the old 50hz titles. | |
Yeah, I bought the game yesterday, and they are not that bad, especially compared to those god awful unoptimised ports we got in the 32-bit generation. The 3DO in particular is pretty bad when it comes down to borders. At least in a few Saturn games they were full screen optimised like Tomb Raider, and Sega Rally. I just used the zoom function on my TV to get rid of the one's in Dragon's Dogma. The picture doesn't look that stretched either. | |
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So, I'm just finishing my 16th hour of Dragon's Dogma (had a nice marathon today it being my day off), and I have to say, over all the game has me extremely upset. Of course, that goes without saying that I'm enjoying myself as well, it's just 50% fun, and 50% utter garbage.
Let's start with the most horrid design choice:
Lack of multiplayer: I've seen on other forums people trying to defend it as a game that doesn't need multiplayer. BULL. SHIT. This game is barely functional without it! Why do we keep getting squad based games with heavy emphasis on online features, yet completely lacking multiplayer?
The AI is nice, it heals when you need it to, and that's just about it. Combat-wise the only time any NPCs can be of any use is if they're over leveled for the fight, or they're buffing you. And due to the difficult nature of the game, the buffs are mostly aesthetic. Seriously, my stopping point for the day was after dying to the same ogre six times in a row. And please, don't get me wrong, this isn't a hard fight. Ogres are easily distracted, and honestly easy to get around. The only problem is they have FAR too much health. So much health in fact that every attempt at one is about thirty minutes of hacking at it, and then dying. They outlast you by sheer virtue of their health.
Once again, don't get me wrong, I'm 21st level, warrior, with two extremely powerful mages following me and an uber decked out strider. Why then am I doing so little damage to it? And why, WHY, when I have two hits to kill it, does it grab me, and immediately deal 1k points of damage instakilling me? Why when I have no block ability do I not have a dodge roll?
Easy answer: This game is too hard. Harder answer: This game NEEDS multiplayer. It was built for it. I can run around for 30 minutes reviving my buddies but the second I go down it's game over. This game needed multiplayer, and needed the ability for PCs to be revived.
Now, before you think I can't handle a difficult game, I beat Dark Souls. I didn't just beat Dark Souls, I made it my bitch. I ran through it with an underpowered, under equipped build, and ZERO summoning. It was one of the most grueling tasks of my life, but it was doable.
This game makes Dark Souls look easy, by sheer virtue of being cheap. I had an earlier fight that wasn't above my level rating that I kept dying in specifically because I kept being stun locked against enemies I could not stun.
This game is intentionally cheap, broken, and unfair. Capcom completely missed the point of extreme difficulty, and even further missed the point of 4 man squad gaming. This game needs multiplayer, it's too hard otherwise. I wanted an action RPG, not I Wanna Be The Guy.
Graphics and aesthetic: We are once again burdened by Capcom not understanding how different video outputs and televisions work. Here the absolute biggest atrocity is the black bars on the top and bottom of my widescreen t.v. that I cannot get rid of. There is no option, you HAVE to have them. Why!? Why am I losing so much of my screen? What purpose does it serve? MAKE IT GO AWAY! Worst part, it does from time to time. During the main menu and loading screens.
Second biggest issue with the graphics: simply poor texturing and low resolution.
Now, I'm the first guy to call out and shame on graphics whores, but this game is fucked up.
Shortly after creating my character my clothes got damaged. This damage took the form of VERY LARGE blocks where the rips were. You could put a piece of printer paper on my t.v. screen and trace it. It's not something small either, it's large, dead center of screen, and you can't ignore it, even if you're not looking for it. Looked like stairs, or something from Minecraft.
This should not be happening on a PS3 and Xbox360, ever. And this happens a lot. There are several poorly rendered, poorly made, and just flat out ugly textures and meshes in this game, which brings us to our last problem with looks.
The Aesthetic. This game is FILLED with tired Lord of the Rings rip off aesthetic. Wooden walls are dingy, stone walls are just too clean, grass and trees are EVERYWHERE. I've only been in one spot so far that wasn't forest and that's because it was DEAD forest.
Yes I know, it's a fantasy setting, giant ecosystem destroying machines don't exist. But I'm sixteen hours in and still feel like I'm in the shire! And it's a fucking ugly shire at that due to the blocky nature.
Beach looks nice though.
Now don't get me wrong on this one, the game looks nice, and the setting feels decent enough, it's just the same shit we've seen in either Fable or Elder Scrolls. They could have done more.
Shut up. Shut up. SHUT UP! YEAH!? I FUCKING KNOW THOSE RUINS USED TO BE A WALL!
Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Really? I'm 16 hours in and I thought swinging wildly was the BEST way to do damage! Shut up!
The pawns talk. Too. Fucking. Much. They never shut the fuck up, and they never say anything new.
You can mentor your pawn to get them to talk less. They ask if they should continue their current mode of chatter. Selecting "Yes" makes them assure you they will talk MORE. Selecting "No" makes them assure you they will talk less. Both result in you pawn talking more than they did before. Compound this with two more pawns.
They never shut the fuck up, never have anything interesting to say, and are annoying as fuck.
SHUT UP!
Worst Design Issue: Fast Travel! This game has you all over the place.
I do not know how I can stress just how large the map is. Worse still, most quests find you have to run to damn near the opposite of the map. There is TOO MUCH GROUND TO COVER! And it's really tiresome to have to do it multiple times. I do not know how many times I have passed the bandit camp in the old ruined castle, but it's too fucking many!
Why is there no form of faster/ fast travel!? Why when I have to run half way across the damn continent, do I have to run all the way back, just to come back around again!?
STOP IT! All you're doing is grinding just how boring the setting is into my brain! GO AWAY!
Other than that it's bloody brilliant! I'm reminded of the Monster Hunter commercials playing it. It's intuitive and easy to learn, every role gets amazing powers and buffs, and other than the lonely difficulty the game is really fun.
I'd go into the greatness of it, but that would make this a review, and I just wanted to rant.
So, I'm sixteen hours in, I've only completed 2 quests since:
Spoiler: Click to View
I'm level 21, the game is hard as fuck, I've had to give up and run away from so many fights, I've been so god damned frustrated, I've gotten such huge erections from beating the hard fights, and I just want to share the joy and frustration with friends. I mean this game is totally built for it, after all, I'm downloading my friends pawns! How dope is that!?
So, anyone else have any bitches or squee's of joy to share?
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