Are Crusader Kings or Warlock worth it?

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Simple question, I hope. Right now Paradox Interactive has 50% off on all games in its catalogue on Steam. I looked through it and only these two (OK, technically three) games stood out:
Warlock: Master of the Arcane
Crusader Kings
Crusader Kings II

So I decided to be lazy ask for a the competent opinion of the Escapists. There you go, do my research for me please share your thoughts.

Having seen some LPs of both games, Warlock seems worth it if you like Civ5, and Crusader Kings seems okay. I don't really play many strategy games though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Don't get Warlock till the devs patch the game up.

Right now it has none of the promised multiplayer and there's tons of balancing issues. It's also too easy on hard right now. The concearn now is the 2nd piece of DLC is already out before the game is fixed.
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read. Game has great potential but it's not there yet.
Go play Age of wonders or something in the meantime.

unless you enjoy games like masters of orion, victoria empire under the rising sun, hearts of iron then do not buy crusader kings. It is a complex game and more about managment and political/economical movements to get your lands through titles than just slugging it out with warfare. Its a slow game. Thats not saying its enjoyable but that is how the game is.

In other words if your a total war fan, who likes to see armies clash on your sceen and arrows flutter around ect. then dont get it. If you like to see a map with every ounce of detail with your pieces moving into place, managing your vassals ect and looking at the statistics of your armies equipped with the weapons manufactured by the provinces you decided to employ blacksmiths ect and the mines you decided to create in other provinces via the trade routes of all your other lords and vassals ect ect ect ect. Honestly for me its a great game with endless content and depth but I find it more like a highschool project A+B=C and no cool animations to relax and watch. Not to be viewed as "having better graphics"

No idea what warlocks is though

veloper:
Don't get Warlock till the devs patch the game up.

Right now it has none of the promised multiplayer and there's tons of balancing issues. It's also too easy on hard right now. The concearn now is the 2nd piece of DLC is already out before the game is fixed.
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read. Game has great potential but it's not there yet.
Go play Age of wonders or something in the meantime.

I played the demo of Warlock and it was just a mess >.>
I could hardly do anything at all.

Midgeamoo:

veloper:
Don't get Warlock till the devs patch the game up.

Right now it has none of the promised multiplayer and there's tons of balancing issues. It's also too easy on hard right now. The concearn now is the 2nd piece of DLC is already out before the game is fixed.
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read. Game has great potential but it's not there yet.
Go play Age of wonders or something in the meantime.

I played the demo of Warlock and it was just a mess >.>
I could hardly do anything at all.

The demo was map was perfectly playable and winnable even(within 40 turns).
It's just that the balance (units, economy, spells etc.) in the game is way off and the AI is hopeless, which makes such an early win possible.
It didn't find much else wrong with the game though.

kingthrall:
In other words if your a total war fan, who likes to see armies clash on your sceen and arrows flutter around ect. then dont get it. If you like to see a map with every ounce of detail with your pieces moving into place, managing your vassals ect and looking at the statistics of your armies equipped with the weapons manufactured by the provinces you decided to employ blacksmiths ect and the mines you decided to create in other provinces via the trade routes of all your other lords and vassals ect ect ect ect.

I like total war, and you described the aspect I prefer - watching the armies fight is not my high priority. Thanks, for that, I'll get it. Any recommendation which to go for 1, 2 or both?

veloper:
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read.

*hangs head in shame*

Totally forgot to check the user reviews section. I'll go and read it, just to make it up for you. But it seems that I'll not be getting Warlock, at least not now.

DoPo:

kingthrall:
In other words if your a total war fan, who likes to see armies clash on your sceen and arrows flutter around ect. then dont get it. If you like to see a map with every ounce of detail with your pieces moving into place, managing your vassals ect and looking at the statistics of your armies equipped with the weapons manufactured by the provinces you decided to employ blacksmiths ect and the mines you decided to create in other provinces via the trade routes of all your other lords and vassals ect ect ect ect.

I like total war, and you described the aspect I prefer - watching the armies fight is not my high priority. Thanks, for that, I'll get it. Any recommendation which to go for 1, 2 or both?

veloper:
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read.

*hangs head in shame*

Totally forgot to check the user reviews section. I'll go and read it, just to make it up for you. But it seems that I'll not be getting Warlock, at least not now.

No worries man. That piece would be about 10 pages down right now and it's a really long and boring review, like I always do.
All you'll want is the conclusion which I already summed up here.

veloper:

Midgeamoo:

veloper:
Don't get Warlock till the devs patch the game up.

Right now it has none of the promised multiplayer and there's tons of balancing issues. It's also too easy on hard right now. The concearn now is the 2nd piece of DLC is already out before the game is fixed.
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read. Game has great potential but it's not there yet.
Go play Age of wonders or something in the meantime.

I played the demo of Warlock and it was just a mess >.>
I could hardly do anything at all.

The demo was map was perfectly playable and winnable even(within 40 turns).
It's just that the balance (units, economy, spells etc.) in the game is way off and the AI is hopeless, which makes such an early win possible.
It didn't find much else wrong with the game though.

Oh, well maybe my download got corrupted, because the game literally didn't work.

veloper:
No worries man. That piece would be about 10 pages down right now and it's a really long and boring review, like I always do.
All you'll want is the conclusion which I already summed up here.

Found it. It's easier if I just go to your profile and find it in your posts. I also read it, and it gave me the information I needed (which I totally could have done before I posted this thread...but yeah).

But since you mentioned Age of Wonders here and in the review, is 2 any good? I know I did some research a while back and generally, Shadow Magic was recommended, but I either haven't checked what people think about AoW 2, or they think it's bad. Any suggestion there? (Also, this time I checked, and there wasn't a review about it)

DoPo:

veloper:
No worries man. That piece would be about 10 pages down right now and it's a really long and boring review, like I always do.
All you'll want is the conclusion which I already summed up here.

Found it. It's easier if I just go to your profile and find it in your posts. I also read it, and it gave me the information I needed (which I totally could have done before I posted this thread...but yeah).

But since you mentioned Age of Wonders here and in the review, is 2 any good? I know I did some research a while back and generally, Shadow Magic was recommended, but I either haven't checked what people think about AoW 2, or they think it's bad. Any suggestion there? (Also, this time I checked, and there wasn't a review about it)

The first game was good. The second game, not so much. Shadow magic is AOW2 on steriods and good again.
Best thing since Master of Magic in my opinion. The competition in the form of Heroes of M&M and Disciples are too much about figuring out in which order to beat the fixed, static enemies on the map for maximum level-ups. So more like puzzle games, while AOW are still real strategy games with reactive opponents.

Crusader Kings 2? Hell yeah, but slow. I wouldn't say Warlock is worth because it's like Civ 5 and I don't like Civ 5. 15 turns to build the most basic culture building on the standard pace? Too slow.

Terratina.:
Crusdar Kings 2? Hell yeah, but slow. I wouldn't say Warlock is worth because it's like Civ 5 and I don't like Civ 5. 15 turns to build the most basic culture building on the standard pace? Too slow.

Did you even play Warlock?

veloper:
Shadow magic is AOW2 on steriods and good again.

So, you're saying I made the right decision when I bought it yesterday? That's good to know :) I went through my wishlist on GOG, found it there and bought it, but since AoW 2 wasn't on the wishlist, I wasn't sure if it's bad or I hadn't looked into it yet. And now that you said it, I recall I found out that 2 is not as liked as Shadow Magic.

Anyway, people - Crusaded Kings 1/2? Is one better than the other or should I get both?

I bought CK2 on a recommendation and I've found it just to be too in depth to really enjoy, I really did try and persevere with it but I just couldn't bring myself to like it. Ah well, 15 badly spent..

DoPo:

veloper:
No worries man. That piece would be about 10 pages down right now and it's a really long and boring review, like I always do.
All you'll want is the conclusion which I already summed up here.

Found it. It's easier if I just go to your profile and find it in your posts. I also read it, and it gave me the information I needed (which I totally could have done before I posted this thread...but yeah).

But since you mentioned Age of Wonders here and in the review, is 2 any good? I know I did some research a while back and generally, Shadow Magic was recommended, but I either haven't checked what people think about AoW 2, or they think it's bad. Any suggestion there? (Also, this time I checked, and there wasn't a review about it)

Oh I had hours of fun with AoW2 vanilla and it's map editor. Great game, I really wish they'd make a total war style version of that game.

It was VERY hard though, computer always seemed to cheat even on Easy.

veloper:

Did you even play Warlock?

Yeah, just see my Steam on my profile. I was referring to the relatively large amount of time to build a Momument at the beginning of the game in Civ 5. to Played the demo, didn't like it. Even with buildings taking about 2 or 3 turns to build, you can only build when the population increase. Depending on the are you build your city, this can hit you hard. Also with the demo, the starting city is next to a world portal guarded by Earth Elementals and there is an area near with tons of monsters and neural creeps and vampires. Not particularly good for a demo when the starting city is near a monster-fullied area.

Terratina.:

veloper:

Did you even play Warlock?

Yeah, just see my Steam on my profile. I was referring to the relatively large amount of time to build a Momument at the beginning of the game in Civ 5. to Played the demo, didn't like it. Even with buildings taking about 2 or 3 turns to build, you can only build when the population increase. Depending on the are you build your city, this can hit you hard. Also with the demo, the starting city is next to a world portal guarded by Earth Elementals and there is an area near with tons of monsters and neural creeps and vampires. Not particularly good for a demo when the starting city is near a monster-fullied area.

Then you'd know that the pace of the game is actually very fast, not slow.
Churning out units every 2 to 5 turns in your production cities while simultaneously producing the structures everytime a city grows to the next level. Not like civ5 at all in this respect. I'd yet have to see a faster progressing wargame or 4x.

The only similarities here are the visuals and the 1UPT combat.

The neutral creeps are actually one of the better things about the game. It's part of the challenge.
You can beat that earth elemental with 1 warrior, 1 archer, 1 small heal spell and a bit of tactics btw.

veloper:
Snip

I believe the word "clusterfuck" is appropriate. The world portal is near a bunch of creeps, including vampires. Who are pretty tough. You just end up defending from the city from a heap of monsters on one front. As I'd said before, good enough game, not for me. Let's not derail this thread too much over this.

For what it's worth I'm having shit tons of fun with Warlock. Is it perfect? No, but it's also currently $10.

DoPo:
[quote="veloper" post="9.378112.14768763"]

Anyway, people - Crusaded Kings 1/2? Is one better than the other or should I get both?

CK2 is hands down the best game released in 2012 so far. If you're getting one then get the second one. CK1 is getting on in years and somewhat more obtuse. CK2 is excellent right out of the box.

Of course it requires patience and the ability to make your own stories and roll with the punches the game throws at you. You can go from a successful duke to a one county duke in a short time if you're unlucky. But that's the glory of it. Seeing a scheme you spent hours on fall apart or come to fruition. It's a rush that can't be beat in any other game.

DoPo:
Anyway, people - Crusaded Kings 1/2? Is one better than the other or should I get both?

Sorry to quote this specific bit (as I haven't tried CK1 myself), but from what I've heard coming from grand strategy fans CK2 is a definite must buy. Just got into the genre myself, and with all the random things that can come about in this game it is a pretty fun experience.

And, before I continue in gushing mode on how awesome it is, there is a demo available for you to try. This is also good as I've heard rumor that CK will be the main special tomorrow on Steam so you might save a couple more bucks. If it isn't it'll still be at half price.

Hey, how many strategy games do you know that will let you conquer a Kingdom by losing a war against them, swearing fealty to the crown, and then assassinating everyone in the line of succession until you're the King?

Well I enjoy Paradox's grand strategy games, so, even though I haven't played it, I can give Crusader Kings a recommendation based purely on that.

Also, from what I understand it's more like "Game of Thrones The Game" then the actual "Game of Thrones The Game" (genesis)

Witty Name Here:
Also, from what I understand it's more like "Game of Thrones The Game" then the actual "Game of Thrones The Game" (genesis)

Funny you should mention that, as there is a Game of Thrones mod for it. True, it's still in beta, but it's fun none the less.

Warlock is good. Has a demo so you might try that. I did find conquest LAUGHABLY easy. Strike hard and fast at the rivals capital and down it goes. I pulled a water landing for all my troops and knocked down my first rivals cit, & before i could turn my eyes to his other property i won the game. just my nitpick. Course i was on normal with one rival.

Terratina.:
Crusader Kings 2? Hell yeah, but slow. I wouldn't say Warlock is worth because it's like Civ 5 and I don't like Civ 5. 15 turns to build the most basic culture building on the standard pace? Too slow.

I got more like 5 turns. Even then i remember my troops being completed fairly quickly. The economy was easy to run, keeping cities was even easier, and raising an army was laughably easy. In Civilization III(never played past that) it might take you 15 years to train a single marine but in Warlock ti takes all of 5 turns to raise a platoon of warriors. In Civilization it might take me 50 turns to raise a barracks. In Warlock it might take me 3. BUT, in civilizations defense the economy is harder to pull & construction/training is tied to it. I think it is tied together with Warlock, but it is less noticeable due to the streamlined economy.

Warlock is good, not great mind you, but good. Personally I'm waiting till there have been a few expansions and DLC and whatnot to expand the core experience and add some diversity before picking it up for myself but it is a game I will eventually end up purchasing for myself. Buy the inevitable 'complete' version or whatever it'll be called a couple of months from now, that's my plan.

Crusader Kings 2 however... genius. It's one of the best strategy games I've played in years and perhaps even among the higher echelon of best I've played ever. If you don't believe my love for this game just take a look at my steam profile where I'm 40+ hours of gameplay despite only having gotten this game a few weeks ago. It's devoured my time and my attention like only a great strategy game can, making every moment I'm playing it pure strategic bliss while every moment not spent playing it is time spent thinking about it... alright, I'm exaggerating, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't one of those games I find myself thinking about while working or heading off to sleep. "Hmm, what if I did ___ to ___, maybe it'll result in _____".

Paradox really knocked it out of the park with that one. Amazing game, I recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone with an interest in grand strategy titles. Not the easiest game to get into admittedly, but once you have it's simply sublime. Crusader Kings 2 is a game I'll probably still be playing years from now, joining the ranks of strategy games like Galactic Civilizations 2, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic and Age of Empires 2 which always have a place on my computers hard drive.

DoPo:

kingthrall:
In other words if your a total war fan, who likes to see armies clash on your sceen and arrows flutter around ect. then dont get it. If you like to see a map with every ounce of detail with your pieces moving into place, managing your vassals ect and looking at the statistics of your armies equipped with the weapons manufactured by the provinces you decided to employ blacksmiths ect and the mines you decided to create in other provinces via the trade routes of all your other lords and vassals ect ect ect ect.

I like total war, and you described the aspect I prefer - watching the armies fight is not my high priority. Thanks, for that, I'll get it. Any recommendation which to go for 1, 2 or both?

veloper:
I also did a review on the game in the user section that you won't read.

*hangs head in shame*

Totally forgot to check the user reviews section. I'll go and read it, just to make it up for you. But it seems that I'll not be getting Warlock, at least not now.

number 1 is more complicated, number 2 is a bit more polished but a tad more simple still with 90% of the same first game

Well, Crusader Kings is on sale today, so I just ended up buying both. It's 11.50 in total, so why not? Thanks to everyone for the input, I really appreciated it. I'll hold off Warlock for now as suggested - even though it sounds fun, it might be better to get it with the expansion(s) when they come out.

Dunno but Mount and Blade is, get Warbands and Napoleonic wars, also part of the Paradox sale.

Crusader Kings 2 is awesome, at least if you can get past the difficulty curve. I mean, how many games have killing your own kids as a valid gameplay strategy? And it never gets old to repeatedly assassinate the Byzantine Emperor and watch his Empire fall apart in a long war of succession (and secession). But the game is kinda brutal at first and the tutorial, while decent doesn't begin to cover the mechanics. I had to fail a bunch of times before I managed to get a kingdom rolling. A great game, but you need to be in it for the long haul. If you're just looking to jump in and win games on the fast, it might be a poor choice.

Warlock is a good game. Well, that's not quite true - it's more like half a game. And that half is good, no mistake there. Most of that half is reskinned Civilization 5, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, the game is totally focused on combat and lacks meaningful empire building, tech advancement and all that good stuff that I personally love. Also, not much variety to it. You can see everything the game has to offer in a single playthrough. If you can get it really cheap (say, under $10), it might be nice for a quick fix, but don't expect much from it.

I haven't played CK1, but from what I've read CK2 is an improvement in almost every regard, so I'd stick with that...

In my experience, Crusader Kings is sort of like a hyper complex Civilization game, where individual characters replace the buildings to manage.

DoPo:
Well, Crusader Kings is on sale today, so I just ended up buying both. It's 11.50 in total, so why not? Thanks to everyone for the input, I really appreciated it. I'll hold off Warlock for now as suggested - even though it sounds fun, it might be better to get it with the expansion(s) when they come out.

I gotta mirror some one else in here and say you should get the Mount and Blade pack. It was about $7 when I looked, it's got the whole series in there and they can suck hundreds of hours from you, lol.

Crusader Kings 2 is a brilliant game if you can get past learning how the game works. It took me a few tries to understand how the game works in its basics (By tries I mean getting hammered into the ground by other vassals who had smoothly managed to manipulate the kingdoms around me and attacked me when I had absolutely no standing with anyone.)

Now I started off with teh county of glouchester. Formed the duchy and expanded to south wales and a part of north west wales and regularly earn more money then the Kingdom of Englands ruler and supply a third of his army by myself.

I would go for Crusader Kings II, but then again I'm not into fantasy 4x games and I'm a huge fan Paradox's grand strategy games (EU, Vicky, etc).

Pharsalus:
Dunno but Mount and Blade is, get Warbands and Napoleonic wars, also part of the Paradox sale.

Clearing the Eye:
I gotta mirror some one else in here and say you should get the Mount and Blade pack. It was about $7 when I looked, it's got the whole series in there and they can suck hundreds of hours from you, lol.

I noticed that from the beginning (well, it was on sale yesterday, though). Although it sounds good, unfortunately, it's not to my taste. Too little dragons, too much medieval. I'm joking - I had a friend of mine who played it and it just didn't appeal to me. It was a good deal though, I almost bought it to give out as a gift but...well, I didn't in the end.

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