Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened

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SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Because giving a shit doesn't help in this case. The most you can do is leave a friendly comment. There are no charities to donate to and no voluntary work to be done.

Your posts here do fuck all. You can flame me in a passive aggressive manner all you want, it won't change a damn thing.

Also, strawman; my argument was never "It happens a lot so it's ok".

I asked why you think I should apathetic. And your answer is, "Because we're all powerless?" I don't buy that. Just because you can't think of something off the top of your head doesn't mean that answers don't exist. This shit needs to be talked about so we can figure out what to do about it.

First off, no. Stop it. Just stop it. "Among gamers" - no. Gamers are not a collective. I'm not part of a super secret internet club because I play video games. I am in no way linked to idiots who make nasty comments because we share a hobby. So they like to play video games too, eh? That doesn't make it my problem.

I used to follow that line of logic. Not anymore. Gaming is a community in the same way that many other communities I belong to are.

As for what it has to do with it, I'll repeat myself once more; a lot of people seem to be saying that she wanted to make a proper documentary and that this whole thing was legit. I disagree, so I said so.

That feels a bit hollow when in the same breath you look at abuse and tell me, "Eh, don't bother."

It's amazing how pissed off you can get over one guy making a post that contains 2 small paragraphs of stuff that drifts very vaguely off topic.

Because this is a topic that pisses me off and it makes even angrier when the response is, "Lol, internet! Whaddaya gonna do?!"

People are going to say things they don't mean because it's the internet and they want attention. If you give them attention, they'll see that they get rewarded for what they're doing, and do it more.

If anything I would criticize the fact that this became a big gaming news story. I'm not supporting abuse, but I am supporting the sensibility to know when someone's trying to have a laugh at your expense and to be able to ignore them.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Also, strawman; my argument was never "It happens a lot so it's ok".

Sometimes one can accidentally have implications behind some of their posts. For example, I -do- get a "Meh, not a big deal" vibe from your posts. Could be incorrect, I'm just saying.
Some people's posts are just hostile, and people will reply accordingly.

Although she rubs me the wrong way after watching some of her other videos I don't think these comments are remotely justified. But to be fair, her comment in youtube shows she had expected this and will possibly use it in further videos as evidence etc

DrVornoff:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Because giving a shit doesn't help in this case. The most you can do is leave a friendly comment. There are no charities to donate to and no voluntary work to be done.

Your posts here do fuck all. You can flame me in a passive aggressive manner all you want, it won't change a damn thing.

Also, strawman; my argument was never "It happens a lot so it's ok".

I asked why you think I should apathetic. And your answer is, "Because we're all powerless?" I don't buy that. Just because you can't think of something off the top of your head doesn't mean that answers don't exist. This shit needs to be talked about so we can figure out what to do about it.

Well, go ahead. Talk and think of something. We are all waiting.

DrVornoff:
I used to follow that line of logic. Not anymore. Gaming is a community in the same way that many other communities I belong to are.

..Congratulations? I still don't count myself part of the gaming "community". I just like to play video games.

Warning - Godwins law coming in.

I used to be a vegetarian. And I still love animals. Does that mean I sit down every day to think about the problems in the vegetarian and animal loving community, just because Hitler was one and had a pet dog? Of course not. Gaming is neither cause nor effect here, it's just coincidental. The kickstarter could be about movies, it would have gotten the same response.

DrVornoff:
Because this is a topic that pisses me off and it makes even angrier when the response is, "Lol, internet! Whaddaya gonna do?!"

Maybe you should spend more time answering that perfectly reasonable question and less time screaming at rational people.

Yes, I just said I'm rational compared to you right now. Me. Now imagine what you must look like.

Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do. The "misogyny" in these games begins and ends there, and besides, often the men wear outfits just as impractical. I swear to god some of these guys actually wear RUBBER PANTS!

Brad Calkins:
Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do. The "misogyny" in these games begins and ends there, and besides, often the men wear outfits just as impractical. I swear to god some of these guys actually wear RUBBER PANTS!

yeah but do you think insulting them is really the best thing to do some think that way by looking at the comments and what not

Brad Calkins:
Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do. The "misogyny" in these games begins and ends there, and besides, often the men wear outfits just as impractical. I swear to god some of these guys actually wear RUBBER PANTS!

History? I watched about 20 of her videos, and they break things down fairly well. She shows examples of things done well (She better bring up Alyx) and offers solutions (Often more than one).

Tony2077:
yeah but do you think insulting them is really the best thing to do some think that way by looking at the comments and what not

If anyone wants me to expand on that, I've got books worth of points.

I think the main reason she got so much critisism is because she's asking for SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS just to do something anyone else could easily do for almost no money at all. And at this time of writing the pledged amount totals over $100,000.

This is a valid complaint which is unfortunately getting lost in the other less factually based comments.

I mean seriously, she wants six thousand dollars for this? and if the pledged amount goes through she'll get $100,000. For doing what? Telling us how interactive media is sexist and how all men are scum for allowing it to happen?
But we already knew that the media is sexist! Almost all movies portray women in a sexual way and it's been that way ever since the birth of cinema.
It doesn't make it right, but it's what men like to see and it makes money as a result. In the end a corporation cares about the bottom line. It doesn't make them sexist pigs, they're just trying to maximist profits. The same rules apply to games. And with games being the huge risky investment that they are today (especially so with new ip's) you can understand why they would fall back to the old reliable methods of ensuring a sale.

There. Now give me six thousands dollars.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snippy snip snip

Although I'm veering off topic like a llama in a punctured hot air balloon, I just wanted to say, I've noticed your posts in a number of threads (obviously) and you really are very good at defying the bland, reactionary bullshit this site loves to produce. Thank you for promoting actual critical thinking and not running around bleating like you're a llama in a hot air balloon.

Alright, I'm done

Zydrate:

History? I watched about 20 of her videos, and they break things down fairly well. She shows examples of things done well (She better bring up Alyx) and offers solutions (Often more than one).

Did she ever bring up anytime a woman's death was treated as incidental, like just about everyman whose ever died in a video games, or how any man in fiction has to be artifically enhanced to compete with women, even though science has consistantly proven the exact opposite?

Brad Calkins:

Zydrate:

History? I watched about 20 of her videos, and they break things down fairly well. She shows examples of things done well (She better bring up Alyx) and offers solutions (Often more than one).

Did she ever bring up anytime a woman's death was treated as incidental, like just about everyman whose ever died in a video games, or how any man in fiction has to be artifically enhanced to compete with women, even though science has consistantly proven the exact opposite?

I think she skirted the topic on the women in comics video.
Ah, yes. Women in 'fridges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInYaHVSLr8&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA&index=3&feature=plcp

There you go.

I don't think "science" proves anything here. Women deaths in comics just seem to serve a male character. In general.

idarkphoenixi:
SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS just to do something anyone else could easily do for almost no money at all.

But we already knew that

You just described Extra Credits, except they have an even larger budget. For some reason you don't see the internet whining about Extra Credits accepting money in order to increase their production values.

Zydrate:

I think she skirted the topic on the women in comics video.
Ah, yes. Women in 'fridges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInYaHVSLr8&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA&index=3&feature=plcp

There you go.

Skirts with the idea? Please, why not just announce the confirmation bias?

I don't think "science" proves anything here. Women deaths in comics just seem to serve a male character. In general.[/quote]

Are you actually saying that the scientific method is wrong?

Brad Calkins:

Tony2077:
yeah but do you think insulting them is really the best thing to do some think that way by looking at the comments and what not

If anyone wants me to expand on that, I've got books worth of points.

history isn't the best way to judge things. beside she could make a real point with this who know but the way people are acting is sickening

Kahunaburger:
You just described Extra Credits, except they have an even larger budget. For some reason you don't see the internet whining about Extra Credits accepting money in order to increase their production values.

Holy shit, I'm going to whine about it. How much money did they spend on that MMO episode where that one guy just moaned into a camera for 30 minutes about totally inconsequential bullshit? It was like a deeply uncomfortable one man performance art show about taking yourself too seriously.

Buretsu:
We really need a second topic about this?

I didn't know! I post this shit from work. I don't always scour before posting. Thou mayst flagellate me if it pleases you.

Brad Calkins:

Zydrate:

I think she skirted the topic on the women in comics video.
Ah, yes. Women in 'fridges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInYaHVSLr8&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA&index=3&feature=plcp

There you go.

Skirts with the idea? Please, why not just announce the confirmation bias?

I don't think "science" proves anything here. Women deaths in comics just seem to serve a male character. In general.

Are you actually saying that the scientific method is wrong?

It's in the nature of science to get things wrong every now and then.
But I'm also a bit confused. What's that have to do with anything?

I'm not arguing that sometimes male characters get sexualized(sp?) too from time to time. I'm just arguing ratios.

Aside: I said "skirted" to be polite. I try to never speak in absolutes.

Tony2077:
history isn't the best way to judge things. beside she could make a real point with this who know but the way people are acting is sickening

I'll admit that there are better ways to handle it, but clearly women don't listen.

Brad Calkins:

Tony2077:
history isn't the best way to judge things. beside she could make a real point with this who know but the way people are acting is sickening

I'll admit that there are better ways to handle it, but clearly women don't listen.

i'm not sure about how to answer that

Brad Calkins:

Tony2077:
history isn't the best way to judge things. beside she could make a real point with this who know but the way people are acting is sickening

I'll admit that there are better ways to handle it, but clearly women don't listen.

I'm... just going to stop talking to this person. Kind of loses all credibility when resorting to petty insults.

BloatedGuppy:

Kahunaburger:
You just described Extra Credits, except they have an even larger budget. For some reason you don't see the internet whining about Extra Credits accepting money in order to increase their production values.

Holy shit, I'm going to whine about it. How much money did they spend on that MMO episode where that one guy just moaned into a camera for 30 minutes about totally inconsequential bullshit? It was like a deeply uncomfortable one man performance art show about taking yourself too seriously.

I've avoided watching that one so far out of fear of facepalm-induced wrist injury. Some dude neglected important aspects of his life in high school because he was really into something, alert the media.

I'm getting rather tired of all the bitching about sexism nowadays. I get it, everything is sexist.
But that video seemed harmless to me and I fail to see why people are treating her like that.
Then again, what can we do about it?

Zydrate:

It's in the nature of science to get things wrong every now and then.
But I'm also a bit confused. What's that have to do with anything?

I'm not arguing that sometimes male characters get sexualized(sp?) too from time to time. I'm just arguing ratios.

Yes, science gets things wrong every now and then, but the inferiority of women has been consistantly proven. No woman's ever run the hundred metres in under 10 seconds, in fact, in order for a man to even be considered for the Olympics, he has to out perform every woman whose ever lived in the same event. In law enforcement, a man is held to a much higher standard than a woman, and no woman has invented a world changing technology.

Kahunaburger:
I've avoided watching that one so far out of fear of facepalm-induced wrist injury. Some dude neglected important aspects of his life in high school because he was really into something, alert the media.

They weren't even important! I was at least looking forward to hearing about how he derailed his life or something but absolutely nothing of any significance happened. I think he bailed on movie night with some friends once, or something. It was utterly flabbergasting. To this day I wonder if it wasn't a brilliant satire.

Brad Calkins:
but the inferiority of women has been consistantly proven.

Wow, seriously? Everything in your post has happened BECAUSE of thi---

Wait, wait. I'll stick to my last post. I'll let others thrash you for a bit.

Zydrate:

Wow, seriously? Everything in your post has happened BECAUSE of thi---

Wait, wait. I'll stick to my last post. I'll let others thrash you for a bit.

this is the best you can come up with?

Brad Calkins:
this is the best you can come up with?

Heyyyyy...

Aren't you the guy who posted that link for "A Voice for Men" that one time? And we all laughed and laughed and laughed, and you got really angry?

If not I'm SUPER sorry for implying it was you.

BloatedGuppy:

Heyyyyy...

Aren't you the guy who posted that link for "A Voice for Men" that one time? And we all laughed and laughed and laughed, and you got really angry?

If not I'm SUPER sorry for implying it was you.

No, I'm not, but I would like to know, what about "A Voice For Men" makes it a bad source?

My response to, "This shouldn't be acceptable; we shouldn't tolerate trolling!"

This right here is why we just ignore it.

Brad Calkins:
Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do. The "misogyny" in these games begins and ends there, and besides, often the men wear outfits just as impractical. I swear to god some of these guys actually wear RUBBER PANTS!

So... have you ever watched any of her Feminist Frequency shows? Or are you just basing it off what you see here on the escapist?

She focuses primarily on film and TV, and shes done books as well. This is new ground for her to explore in regards to the medium she's dealing with, but from what I understand, she's not alien to games either. If she handles this project with the same competence she handles her average video, I'd say she has a good shot of getting to the heart of the issues, or at the very least drawing its true ugliness into the open, not this superficial nonsense people seem to think primarily concerns feminists.

That said, I'm not a rabid fan... I watch her videos for an alternative viewpoint, but I don't always agree with her. Yet she's willing to look into a flawed community and prod its sore points in order to cure it, which I find commendable. No one else seems to want to touch that can of worms.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snip

Here's a question for you smash. If someone you knew was exposed to severe gender based abuse in school or at work, but you only heard about it well after the fact, would you just let it slide because there isn't anything you can do about it?

Would you be comfortable if the people who abused this person were able to get off scot-free regardless of how bad it gets or how often it happens?

Well fortunately for you, you don't have to worry about this as much, as there is a REAL world justice system, however flawed, with a police force to enforce it, however flawed and Mass Media (however flawed) that names and shames if needs be.

This person is actively being abused. They are not only calling her names, they are actively trying to sabotage her goals and imposing their will on her. Harm IS intended. The people perpetrating this are doing so as a group (in regards to the sabotage), with anonymity on their side and no meaningful response from any authorities.

This is all directed at 1 person... just 1 person who wants to voice her concerns. If we all shared your logic, she would have to deal with this on her own. That's more then anyone can bare without support from others around them.

Freezy_Breezy:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snippy snip snip

Although I'm veering off topic like a llama in a punctured hot air balloon, I just wanted to say, I've noticed your posts in a number of threads (obviously) and you really are very good at defying the bland, reactionary bullshit this site loves to produce. Thank you for promoting actual critical thinking and not running around bleating like you're a llama in a hot air balloon.

Alright, I'm done

This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

BloatedGuppy:

Kahunaburger:
I've avoided watching that one so far out of fear of facepalm-induced wrist injury. Some dude neglected important aspects of his life in high school because he was really into something, alert the media.

They weren't even important! I was at least looking forward to hearing about how he derailed his life or something but absolutely nothing of any significance happened. I think he bailed on movie night with some friends once, or something. It was utterly flabbergasting. To this day I wonder if it wasn't a brilliant satire.

Ahahahaha really? And some people still take EC seriously and like cite them as evidence and stuff. What.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Yeah, the quality of "trolling" has really dropped these past years. Now any guy who leaves a "LOL U R SO DUMB I WILL RAPE U AND UR DOG AHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE UMAD?" comment on youtube proudly wears a troll badge like it's some kind of medal.

Tell me about it, since when was insulting and trolling the same thing? Also I think the give less fucks approach will be shot down because of the fact that people will give a fuck about whether or not you aren't giving a fuck. Sorta like how nothing is something, you can't do nothing because nothing is something, or some shit. I certainly applaud it though.

Does it really cost that much to make internet videos? I had no idea O.o

Ragsnstitches:

That said, I'm not a rabid fan... I watch her videos for an alternative viewpoint, but I don't always agree with her. Yet she's willing to look into a flawed community and prod its sore points in order to cure it, which I find commendable. No one else seems to want to touch that can of worms.

+Respect for disagreeing in a more tasteful, logical manner.

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