SWTOR: Really EA? Are you seriously surprised?

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

Starke:

Senor Smoke21:

Anti Nudist Cupcake:
-snip-

Lord of the Rings Online however is an example of very bad f2p in that a shit tonne of content is locked away and it costs more to unlock than it would to subscribe.

Champions freakin' spoiled me for everyone else's F2P, there are still pretty solid incentives for subbing, but the free limitations don't include locked away game content.

D&D Online was, here's two dungeons, you can grind them to level five or give us money. Lots of money.

DCUO was, here's all the launch content, but nothing else, but you can only have 2000 resources at any time.

Trying to remember which other F2Ps I've spent time in, and drawing a blank.

I tried to have a go at Champions a while ago but my shitty connection at uni made it difficult to get past character creation.
Those others sounds just like LOTRO. For free you could access all the content that was previously the free trial. But that was it. Then you had to pay to unlock an areas quest pack.

bad rider:
1.3 million players minimum 13 dollars a month = 16.9 million turnover per month

1.3 million players maximum 15 dollars a month = 19.5 million turnover per month

Yes, they are massive failures who should be ashamed of themselves.

Their subscription numbers have been falling since day one, and an MMO that only came out less then 6 months ago switching into F2P... call Titanic a success if you want but that boat is still going down at a staggering pace.

I really enjoyed SWTOR. I did. But the major problem with it is also its greatest strength - it's a single player MMO. The greatest allure of the game, and clearly the area where Bioware put the most effort, was in the storylines, but after 70-100 hours of climbing levels, you ultimately stop caring and start skipping all the cutscenes, because you just want to reach the level cap. Unfortunately, once you got there there was absolutely shit-all to do. PvP was awfully balanced and raids were incredibly limited for a very long time, and arguably still are.

It's my opinion that MMO's live and die on the strength of their end-game, and TOR's was non-existent. Sad, really, because the game had a lot of virtues.

bad rider:

1.3 million players minimum 13 dollars a month = 16.9 million turnover per month

1.3 million players maximum 15 dollars a month = 19.5 million turnover per month

Aggregate scores
Aggregator Score
GameRankings 84.14% (43 reviews)
Metacritic 85/100 (71 reviews)

It was a $200 million investment without marketing (and that's 50 million easy).

They won't be in the green until 2013, and after that Lucas will be taking a 30% cut or more from their profits.

Also, go check out WAR and AoC's metacritic scores. Didn't stop them from losing over 80% of their subscribers in less than a year. And despite the numbers, SWTOR's critical reception was lukewarm at best, their biggest accolade is "MSNBC's game of the year".

If they don't enter 2013 with more than 500k paying subs, heads will fly both at BioWare and EA. And looking at the sharp downward trend and GW2 and MoP's impending release, I very much doubt they will.

Anti Nudist Cupcake:

Mr.K.:
Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

Mainly? More people and more content. That tends to happen when you have been around for 7 years. It actually doesn't do much that is genuinely better. This is coming from someone who played since the Original Beta for over 7 years.

Ryank1908:
I really enjoyed SWTOR. I did. But the major problem with it is also its greatest strength - it's a single player MMO.

Nail hit on the head there, Ryank. I'd also add that the storylines, even though they were a major selling point, were often pretty ropey. Case in point being the Smuggler story, with often half-baked reasons conjured up to make sure you kept in with the Republic; and the episodic nature simply didn't work that well. To give Bioware their due, there were some great bits within the storylines for the various classes that both surprised and entertained - just not enough to stop you skipping that lovingly crafted cutscene with its dialogue when you knew that ultimately the quest was yet again to go from A to B to kill X number of mobs and duly return.

I'd also add that the Light/Dark side 'morality' was badly implemented from the get-go, which really limited the player to being a very two-dimensional character. End game content and PvP were sorely lacking - a similar situation to WoW in the early days, admittedly, but you would have thought someone might have realised this earlier. And all the space missions were repetitive rail-shooters - making them feel like an afterthought that was hurriedly bolted on to the game.

In addition to this, they made the same error as Warhammer had in the early days - too many initial servers leading to poor levels of population spread over a vast area.

As others before me have suggested, they would have been better off making a full-blown single player game.

Now don't get me wrong - there is plenty of fun to be had in SWTOR, but its a game to visit rather than a game you'd stay with for any length of time. And hopefully this lesson will be finally learnt - it's not enough to simply copy WoW, no matter how many bells and whistles you add. Genuine innovation is needed - sadly this is risky, and if there's one thing major companies like EA fear, it's taking a risk.

At the moment I'm pretty much done with MMORPGS, unless someone makes a seriously large step forward.

On the other hand, I still have high hopes for Planetside 2 - screw roleplaying, give me mass troop movements, a big stonking tank, and (fingers crossed) meaningful/valuable capture of territory with actual battlelines being drawn up and attacked/defended(Not asking for much, am I ?) :D

If it goes F2P I might even consider playing it.

bad rider:

Mr.K.:
I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it

1.3 million players minimum 13 dollars a month = 16.9 million turnover per month

1.3 million players maximum 15 dollars a month = 19.5 million turnover per month

Yes, they are massive failures who should be ashamed of themselves.

Edit:
Also their extremely positive reception by critics.

Aggregate scores
Aggregator Score
GameRankings 84.14% (43 reviews)
Metacritic 85/100 (71 reviews)

Honestly they should have just committed mass suicide.

as someone else stated, the game easily cost 200 million with voice acting and other widgets. Plust the marketing. bare in mind that it's still costing them money by keeping servers up, and paying developers for patch content. The actual price of SWTOR may end up costing 300 million by the end of the year, and with lower subscription numbers or even free to play they may not reach that goal for a while.

As for positive critic scores, you want to know another MMO that had good reviews when it came out?

Warhammer Online
Metacritic 86/100 (54 reviews)

Not sure when the last time I ever heard someone talking about that game though, other then as a reference as another fantasy MMO that was hyped to be the next WoW killer, and failed.

I really wish MMOs would stop trying to be the next WoW killer, and just focus on being a great persistant online game in their game's universe...

I love EQ2 and if it wasn't deserted and a glitchy mess, I would've kept playing instead of going back to WoW. It's little things that can kill an MMO such as never getting into a dungeon group and such

Not true. SWTOR is a fantastic single player game that you will happily get 60-90 days out of as you bring a number of classes up to the level cap. The personal quests and stories during leveling are fantastic. Then you realize you have hit the endgame, there is no endgame, all the pretty stories and cutscenes are gone, and all that is left is eye bleedingly painful daily quest grinding or a handful of buggy badly balanced and unoriginal raid bosses to do daily or weekly. At that point you cancel your subscription and go back to WoW.

As far as what WoW does to keep subscribers. Love Blizzard or hate them, they do do this better than anyone else. There is a broad depth of content, side things to engage, places to go and do, and they make it very easy to play their game. Yeah you will eventually get bored with it, but there is such a degree of polish to what they have built that it tends to have a longer player longevity.

Bioware thought that being able to make great RPG's made them fully qualified to make the best, most expensive MMO ever. They were wrong. They are the best in the business at RPG's. This shows up in the wonderful leveling game. Unfortunately the end game is where their complete amateurism in MMO development comes to the forefront, and there is no way to escape it.

DrMegaNutz:
I love EQ2 and if it wasn't deserted and a glitchy mess, I would've kept playing instead of going back to WoW. It's little things that can kill an MMO such as never getting into a dungeon group and such

EQ2's thriving rather well as a f2p MMO, as is the original EQ. EQ2 is what WoW should be, IMO. It's a great MMO, with good combat, involved crafting, things to do that don't involve combat, from mining and crafting (even gaining levels in a skill-based class, like carpenter) to a fully fleshed out, built in trading card game.

SWTOR didnt do enough (or anything at all in most cases) to resolve the many issues which was affecting the game (server merging, faction inbalance, pvp, pve was horrible, blah blah blah).

probably the most fun ive ever had leveling in a mmo. and if it wasnt for huttball i probably would never play any of my max level chars.

kyosai7:

DrMegaNutz:
I love EQ2 and if it wasn't deserted and a glitchy mess, I would've kept playing instead of going back to WoW. It's little things that can kill an MMO such as never getting into a dungeon group and such

EQ2's thriving rather well as a f2p MMO, as is the original EQ. EQ2 is what WoW should be, IMO. It's a great MMO, with good combat, involved crafting, things to do that don't involve combat, from mining and crafting (even gaining levels in a skill-based class, like carpenter) to a fully fleshed out, built in trading card game.

It's not f2p when I get locked out of my chars when my subscription is up :P that's one of its problems (plus my ranger can't solo for shit)

Amphoteric:

Gitty101:
They should've just stuck to making Knights of the Old Republic 3. Or kept the title, but focused on a single-player only game. That would have been much better imo.

Considering what they did with Mass effect 3 i'd rather they didn't completely ruin the KotOR series.

I thought they did by turning it into an MMO.

MMORPG are dying. Sure GW2 will probably give a little revival but with the oversaturation of all these MMOs, the market itself is definitely in decline.

Anti Nudist Cupcake:

Mr.K.:
Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

Obviously WoW did not start out with 10 million subs, it took them almost 4 years to build up such a playerbase, but it did have an amazingly popular beginning. With no copies of the game being available the first 2 months after launch, and servers melting due to the massive amount of people wanting to play.

WoW had two major advantages:
1. It's based on a very popular, well-known and high quality IP. I.e. the Warcraft RTS series.
2. WoW runs on almost any computer, including Macintosh. Heck, install it on your easy-bake oven and it would probably run.

SWTOR has neither of these all important advantages working for them. Star Wars is a famous IP, yes, but not all Star Wars fans are gamers, and Star Wars games have a terrible reputation (some exceptions not counted of course). Plus, the game has very high system demands for relatively low quality graphics.
My computer should be able to handle SWTOR with all the settings on high. It doesn't. It's a poorly program piece of shit. The loading times were 7 to 10 minutes for me, and after complaining about it on the SWTOR forum, I found out that people with more powerful computers than myself, had the exact same problem.

SWTOR basically locked out half it's potential playerbase with it's high system demands and poor programming.

This game should have remained single player, as another in the Old Republic series.

And this is why ladies and gentlemen i only play Guild Wars as MMO.

Starke:

D&D Online was, here's two dungeons, you can grind them to level five or give us money. Lots of money.

I know it was something like that for a brief period but for most of its f2p life they dropped any level cap, you can fairly easily get to high levels (though 17+ seems very difficult) with the need to grind a few levels. Hell theres only 2 quests that you can pay for below level 5.

Yeah, F2P might be the best for the game. I actually really like it, but it seems Bioware developed it as they do their other games. Make a great game while playing through, but with jack shit to do at the end other than start a new character and do it all again. It's great for me, because that's what I do, but for most people? Mainly MMO players? Yeah, that's just not gonna cut it.

I'd say the biggest mistake, though, is putting up so many servers in the first place. Caused the population to be spread out, making it seem like there's far less people who play when there's actually quite a bit. Which causes people to leave because it feels like the game is dead and who wants to play a dead game?

Hopefully after the server transfers/merges are all said and done and the 1.3 patch gets released things get better.

Lunar Templar:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Pyramid Head:
why even try to make pay to play MMORPGs anymore?

Because dats where da big money is bro! Look at WoW! Making millions!

Never mind the 20 or so other MMO's that tried, failed and ended up making loses. No. Just look at WoW and how successful it is.

:) i love you for this.

F2P could actually end up saving ToR, as going F2P has given new life to several MMO's already. hell, Age of Conan is still alive and kicking thanks to its F2P conversion and i thought it died long ago

Wait, Age of Conan is still alive?

Huh. Well, good for it then.

Wait... They actually thought The Old Republic could compete with World of Warcraft? Seriously? I mean... seriously!? I just don't understand what anti-logic they could have built up that could possibly bring them to this conclusion.

Then again, these are the same people who demand that Dead Space 3 sell 5,000,000 copies, or else they'll cancel the series.

gmaverick019:

this is the sole reason i am waiting for it to go f2p, i'm gonna blow through all it's single player stuff in a month then toss it to the side

*goes back to circling EA like a starving alone person in the desert*

image

Yeah, pretty much this.
It doesn't look hugely bad, but not worth both the money and effort involved with EA, Origin, etc to actually play the fucking game.
When it turns F2P I'll check out the cool, free stuff then leave, as I imagine lots of people I know will.

I didn't play SWTOR because there was no player Wookies in it.

No Wookies, its not star wars to me. :P

I felt like they took out much of the feel of Star Wars to go with their writing and romances and voice acting, since that was their 'thing'. But without the races that make star wars star wars and not star trek it just failed to me, I wasn't going to give it my money unless I could recreate my wookie. :| And not a bunch of different colored humans.

I miss the golden days of SWG, where you could run around with Wookies, Trandoshan and Rodians, it felt a lot more like Star Wars to me than this game ever did.

I know, odd complaint and some people will probably get knots in their underwear with it, but there's my reason I kept my wallet closed.

Lionsfan:

Anti Nudist Cupcake:

For those who don't want to read the articles: What it comes down to is that SWTOR's subscriptions are in drastic decline and they are considering making it free to play THIS soon after release (it came out in December 2012).

Unless you have a time machine, I think you meant 2011.

Edit: Fucking Ninja's

And it's news like this that makes me think Bethesda is making a mistake by trying to make an MMO. So many people have tried and failed, why risk it when you could just spend that time on a console game that will do well

Bethesda isn't making it though. They are making skyrim dlc(and hopefully planning to set elder scrolls VI in elsweyr) and helping Zenimax online a little in the development of Elder Scrolls Online. Zenimax Online is making the mmo. Bethesda is just helping with lore. It better be subscription free though.
OT: Yay they are going f2p now I get tot try it.
Off Topic (again): I hope now they will call swtor un canon and make kotor 3 which will make up some of the loss from swtor. Oh and let Obsidian do it and NOT cut their deadline by an entire YEAR.

Gatx:

Amphoteric:

Gitty101:
They should've just stuck to making Knights of the Old Republic 3. Or kept the title, but focused on a single-player only game. That would have been much better imo.

Considering what they did with Mass effect 3 i'd rather they didn't completely ruin the KotOR series.

I thought they did by turning it into an MMO.

They might be able to fix that by declaring TOR non canon and then they can make kotor 3. Which I highly want them to after just getting to kotor 2.

kingcom:

Starke:

D&D Online was, here's two dungeons, you can grind them to level five or give us money. Lots of money.

I know it was something like that for a brief period but for most of its f2p life they dropped any level cap, you can fairly easily get to high levels (though 17+ seems very difficult) with the need to grind a few levels. Hell theres only 2 quests that you can pay for below level 5.

Yeah, I'm usually pretty snippy when someone screws up details like that too. What did stick with me, when I went into the game (which was right after it went F2P) was the experience of playing through the tutorial, and then being told, "no more content for you, unless you cough up money, or grind these two dungeons." And, as far as I can recall, at the time it really was only two free dungeons.

Though, I might be wrong about the level cap, it could have been 10, with a $5 or $10 surcharge to bump it to 20, instead of 5 to 10, then another higher priced bump from 10 to 20.

Raddra:
I didn't play SWTOR because there was no player Wookies in it.

No Wookies, its not star wars to me. :P

I felt like they took out much of the feel of Star Wars to go with their writing and romances and voice acting, since that was their 'thing'. But without the races that make star wars star wars and not star trek it just failed to me, I wasn't going to give it my money unless I could recreate my wookie. :| And not a bunch of different colored humans.

I miss the golden days of SWG, where you could run around with Wookies, Trandoshan and Rodians, it felt a lot more like Star Wars to me than this game ever did.

I know, odd complaint and some people will probably get knots in their underwear with it, but there's my reason I kept my wallet closed.

The insane thing is that the reason given for not including Rodians, Wookies, and Bothans was because of fears "the player wouldn't be able to identify with the character" or some such tripe. Sorry, my girlfriend just corrected me, it was because the writers were snickering at the prospect of a Wookie or Rodian in one of the romance plotlines.

Not that surprising. I think Bioware did a good job with SWTOR, but could EA have really been so naive to think that it could compete with WoW?

Actually (unsure if someone mentioned this already, though) SWTOR is available in Asia and Australia (and that general area) as well now, and WoW's been around for 8 years, while SWTOR's been around 6 months. I mean, WoW didn't suddenly get 10 million subscribers on launch day, it's a long process. WoW's had its population drops as well over the years (they even had one quite recently). The thing seems to be, that people overall are fairly tired of MMOs, as most of them are having a bit of a rough time (which will likely blow over soon). Adding to this that everyone seems to think and/or want that this and that company or game will fall, things may seem a bit more dire than they actually are. Especially BioWare seems to have had a lot of this. Considering SWTOR has 1.3 million subscribers after only 6 months, it's doing pretty damn well. And to those of you who thought WoW would fall after its recent population drop; one does not simply fall with 10 million subscribers.

In short; SWTOR won't fall any time soon, its only been out for 6 months, stop comparing it to a game that's been out for 8 years (16 times as long).

Your Very Own Personal MeatBag:
Actually (unsure if someone mentioned this already, though) SWTOR is available in Asia and Australia (and that general area) as well now, and WoW's been around for 8 years, while SWTOR's been around 6 months. I mean, WoW didn't suddenly get 10 million subscribers on launch day, it's a long process. WoW's had its population drops as well over the years (they even had one quite recently). The thing seems to be, that people overall are fairly tired of MMOs, as most of them are having a bit of a rough time (which will likely blow over soon). Adding to this that everyone seems to think and/or want that this and that company or game will fall, things may seem a bit more dire than they actually are. Especially BioWare seems to have had a lot of this. Considering SWTOR has 1.3 million subscribers after only 6 months, it's doing pretty damn well. And to those of you who thought WoW would fall after its recent population drop; one does not simply fall with 10 million subscribers.

In short; SWTOR won't fall any time soon, its only been out for 6 months, stop comparing it to a game that's been out for 8 years (16 times as long).

Finally someone with half a brain posts.

Vanilla WoW had no end game content either. WoW has been around for 8 years. All MMORPGs are the same. Wow end game content is badge collecting doing boring dailys over and over and over... Zzzzzz

Whinge whine whinge whine whinge fucking moan moan moan moan...

Gamers are getting embarrassing.

I'd like to point out that BW have recently solved the low population problem with the recent character transfers, where 2-3 servers are effectively merged into one. I'm pretty damn sure that on my server there is at least 100 people on the fleet at all times.

kyosai7:

Anti Nudist Cupcake:

Mr.K.:
Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

At this point, I find WoW to just e totally unfun to play. However, I think WoW has kept it's subscribers by being so big. "Why would I play some Star Wars game when all my friends are playing WoW?"

Also take into account that wow dwarfs any other MMO in size and their holiday events are cute and somewhat entertaining.

My biggest complaint is the game adds new content at a snails pace. It's not even gambling kinda stuff, but adding things like more storage slots or even character slots moves at a rate that I swear is because of some kind of pool.

"We've got bets on 2014 as the first new storage slots so if we keep delaying it we'll make 200 dollars from the bet!"

Anti Nudist Cupcake:

Mr.K.:
Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

I think it's the combination of different factors. I've played most of the "modern" (using the term loosely) MMOs and I still feel like WoW is by far the most "polished" game. I know that doesn't mean much by itself, I'm just not sure hot to explain it better. The game plays smoothly, the art design is excellent (note that art design and texture size are different things), it's easy to get into but arguably takes a while to master, there's a ton of content (in terms of world size, number of dungeons, on-the-side things like collecting and achievements) and yes there's a ton of people playing it.

Simply put, WoW is comfort food. As with all subjective things, some people won't like it. But I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that there's a little something for everyone in that game.

I played SWTOR for about 6 months. I'd still be playing it if i could afford the subscription, while mainly playing Diablo 3. If it does go F2P i'll be going back to it.

Also it was availible in more than 2 continents, I'm in Australia and i bought it at a gaming retailer. Yes it's release was delayed here till January, but it was still released. Shit they even have Australian servers.

I am so disappointed by TOR.

As it was in development I was so excited. They promised me the world. I believed them. I pre-ordered. I paid crazy money to play this fucking game. When I finally got it, I made an Agent and started playing.

Agent was fun. For awhile. The storyline was actually really good (I've heard since that Agent has the best storyline; after trying Warrior and Inquisitor I believe it) and I didn't mind the Sniper sub-class's combat style. But then it all fell apart.

The planets feel bad. They're just not right. Nar Shaddaa is a brightly lit metropolis, not KOTOR's and the EU's filthy hive of scum and villainy. Hoth was too small. Coruscant was a joke. Corellia was the worst-laid-out mess I've ever fucking seen in an MMO.

The worst part is that the game is set up so that you progress down a narrow corridor, be it a canyon, a cave, a street, an alley or whatever. Then there are two or three groups of enemies who you cannot get past, cannot stealth by, cannot deal with in any way other than fighting them. Sounds good, but repeat this literally hundreds of times and you start to realize it: this game is so ridiculously padded out it's embarrassing.

This is one of the first games I've ever played where I felt like the developer was giving me a huge "fuck you". I am ashamed that I bought and supported this game.

Play the game and enjoy it. It has many great moments. I can say the same of mass effect 3. The internet is being overly negative about both games. Thats my honest advice. I think most people calling these games worthless haven't even gave them a chance. "Worthless" and its synonyms are strong language that should be reserved for the likes of big rigs and saints row 2 pc edition.

Considering the numerous failures that WoW-clones have had, and considering the new openness to the F2P model, I'm surprised some desperate companies haven't tried to use Nexon's model for the way they run things.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked