Prosecution: Breivik has to go to a mental institution, not prison

The closing speeches in the Breivik trial were today. And I must say I'm not really surprised about the prosecution's stance - instead of sending him to prison, they believe he should be put, permanently, into a closed section of a mental institution, so that he can be removed from the society for good. Basically, if sentenced to prison, he'd get out eventually because Norway doesn't do life sentences, but a loony bin doesn't have such a restriction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18530670

Just wondering what the impressions and opinions from people will be like. I pretty much agree with it, stash him somewhere where he's not a danger anymore. And he clearly is crazy enough to try something funny if sent to prison then released when the time has been served - obviously not at that scale, considering he wouldn't have such resources at his disposal again, but he could still cause some mayhem.

Edit: How'd the thread end up in gaming discussion? Am pretty sure I opened a new one from R&P.

Is the guy actually nuts?

Sending a perfectly sane person who did something bad to an insane asylum for life just because strikes me as a bit off. Why have a 'no life sentences' rule if you're just going to step around it and chuck people in the looney bin?

EDIT: Also, not to be pedantic or anything, but shouldn't this be in off-topic rather than game discussion?

Zhukov:
Is the guy actually nuts?

Sending a perfectly sane person who did something bad to an insane asylum for life just because strikes me as a bit off. Why have a 'no life sentences' rule if you're just going to step around it and chuck people in the looney bin?

I'm no psychiatrist, but I'm gonna go ahead and say "yes".

Probably for the best, as it goes without saying that he'll probably never be fit to walk amongst innocent society, and who knows, maybe under the watchful eyes of doctors, we'll get a useful insight into a mass murderers mind.

What does this have to do with gaming?

Keep in mind that his attacks were all politically motivated. There is a following that, while not condoning his actions, holds similar beliefs. If the court can go through with declaring him insane (keep in mind being legally insane is not the same as clinicly insane) then they can punish the man and disrupt the followers he has. Being declared insane can completely negate his motivations and effect he was trying to achieve. Take this from June 5th's trial coverage;
"Defence witnesses from the far right backed Breivik's views on Islam in court.

They said Norway was threatened by Muslim immigration, an argument used by Breivik in an attempt to justify his attacks.

However, the speakers did not condone Breivik's attacks.

Breivik's defence said the extremists' testimony proved he was not insane because others shared his views."

And May 24th;
"Breivik told the court that he will not appeal agaist a guilty verdict if the court finds him sane. He says he wants to be declared to sane to prove he had rational, ideological motives for the killings."

Breivik's wants to be either exonerated or given the death penalty, he can be innocent or a martyr. Declaring him insane will effect anyone who thinks the same way as him.

I feel that he is quite sane, just have weird moral values and a low regard for human life. But he's not a fruitcake, he knows why he does things.

Just have his head off and be done with it.

Just put everyone that's bad in the loony bin, it's a great solution.
Heck, an even easier one would be to rebuild the planet to a giant one.

(Even though I disagree with what Breivik did, I still find people who would just immediately say he was insane even more disturbing. Just because someone does something unconventional, doesn't make them insane, even if pop culture would lead you to believe such a thing.)

Doclector:

Zhukov:
Is the guy actually nuts?

Sending a perfectly sane person who did something bad to an insane asylum for life just because strikes me as a bit off. Why have a 'no life sentences' rule if you're just going to step around it and chuck people in the looney bin?

I'm no psychiatrist, but I'm gonna go ahead and say "yes".

Probably for the best, as it goes without saying that he'll probably never be fit to walk amongst innocent society, and who knows, maybe under the watchful eyes of doctors, we'll get a useful insight into a mass murderers mind.

I don't think it goes without saying. His philosophy and actions were utterly messed up, but just as he was probably a socially normal kid 20 years ago, so he may stop being a threat to society in another 20 years. It's a risk though, and one that victims will not allow the state to take, with no small justification.

Vegosiux:
The closing speeches in the Breivik trial were today. And I must say I'm not really surprised about the prosecution's stance - instead of sending him to prison, they believe he should be put, permanently, into a closed section of a mental institution, so that he can be removed from the society for good. Basically, if sentenced to prison, he'd get out eventually because Norway doesn't do life sentences, but a loony bin doesn't have such a restriction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18530670

Just wondering what the impressions and opinions from people will be like. I pretty much agree with it, stash him somewhere where he's not a danger anymore. And he clearly is crazy enough to try something funny if sent to prison then released when the time has been served - obviously not at that scale, considering he wouldn't have such resources at his disposal again, but he could still cause some mayhem.

he has been determined to be sane on multiple occasions, they wish to declare him insane because it's difficult for people to understand that his thinking was rational.

Yes,yes he killed people, you know who also kills people? Soldiers.
And that's how he went about his killings, like a soldier fighting for a cause.

M-E-D The Poet:

Vegosiux:
The closing speeches in the Breivik trial were today. And I must say I'm not really surprised about the prosecution's stance - instead of sending him to prison, they believe he should be put, permanently, into a closed section of a mental institution, so that he can be removed from the society for good. Basically, if sentenced to prison, he'd get out eventually because Norway doesn't do life sentences, but a loony bin doesn't have such a restriction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18530670

Just wondering what the impressions and opinions from people will be like. I pretty much agree with it, stash him somewhere where he's not a danger anymore. And he clearly is crazy enough to try something funny if sent to prison then released when the time has been served - obviously not at that scale, considering he wouldn't have such resources at his disposal again, but he could still cause some mayhem.

he has been determined to be sane on multiple occasions, they wish to declare him insane because it's difficult for people to understand that his thinking was rational.

Yes,yes he killed people, you know who also kills people? Soldiers.
And that's how he went about his killings, like a soldier fighting for a cause.

shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

On topic: I'm glad he got shut up in the loony bin. A life sentence is best for the country's safety and it's the one thing he absolutely did not want.

Also as sane as he might think he is. his "sane" reasoning made him massacre children and plan a double bombing.

neversleep:
shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

Implying soliders never kill innocent people for reasons they do not fully understand.

Hey, let's lock up all soldiers too!
Great idea!

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

Implying soliders never kill innocent people for reasons they do not fully understand.

Hey, let's lock up all soldiers too!
Great idea!

Dude, are you seriously defending a mass murderer who targeted children?

You are the one with the retarded points here. Yes man that's a soldiers job. they just randomly put them down somewhere and let them attack innocent civilian targets.

If a soldier is attacking innocents he's failing at his job. I never set lock up all soldiers.
But how about we lock up the insane fuckhead who killed a whole bunch of kids because he felt the country he lived in should be more racist.

I'm not a moral guardian, but you can join M-E-D the poet. if you think it's right to defend Breivik in any way, you are despicable human being.

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

Implying soliders never kill innocent people for reasons they do not fully understand.

Hey, let's lock up all soldiers too!
Great idea!

Implying soldiers massacre children for no reason^

I don't know a single man in the army that would follow that order without a damn good reason. Hell, I was taught to ignore orders like that. And barring that, IF a soldier does that, they do get locked up. Even if they were following orders.

neversleep:
-snip-

I do believe you missed my point entirely.
All I meant was that you use a point that can not only be applied to people who "are insane". And that you could possibly not be such a hothead.

I, in no way, meant to defend Breivik and his twisted actions.
Even if I do object to the use of the word "insanity", and any variations thereupon.

EDIT:

Kordie:
-snip-

Like I said, I never meant to say that every solider kills innocent people because hey why not.
(See above)

It was also a little bit of a hiss towards the fact that humanity declares war on eachother without thinking of the other sides ideas and/or problems that might have caused the first incident.

While my first reaction is "what? the looney bin for this evil man?", anything that pisses him off is aces with me.

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
-snip-

I do believe you missed my point entirely.
All I meant was that you use a point that can not only be applied to people who "are insane". And that you could possibly not be such a hothead.

I, in no way, meant to defend Breivik and his twisted actions.
Even if I do object to the use of the word "insanity", and any variations thereupon.

I'm glad you are a reasonable person. I don't think i'm that much of a hothead, but I admit that this is one of the topics that makes me want to rip the head off anyone defending that monster. your mocking tone in your post made me think that it was your intention to do so.

I do think that any soldier killing innocent civillians should be put on trial and possibly imprisoned. firing upon unarmed civilians is an action that is generally frowned upon.

and yes I do think Breivik is insane. He might have deliberately planned his attack and he might be able to debate it. But his reasoning is extremely twisted, twisted to such a point that he is unwilling to see why his actions are so wrong. The extra depressing part is that most of his political targets within the "political summercamp" were never going to vote for the party Breivik was opposing. Alot of teenagers went there because, hey cheap summercamp.

I'm not sure what you mean in the bit addressed to Kordie but I hope you know that the only "first incident" the political party Breivik attacked had caused was legalisation of immigrants? Or is that not what you mean.

anyways, glad to read you're not a psycho

Evidently you're only nuts if you act alone.

neversleep:
anyways, glad to read you're not a psycho

If I had a nickle...

Anyway, I object to the use of insanity because, simply, insanity is a very powerful word.
Insanity is the milkman/postman in Psychonauts.

And I only meant that people often justify war when they simply have no idea of their true purpose and only trust their government for a view over it.

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
anyways, glad to read you're not a psycho

If I had a nickle...

Anyway, I object to the use of insanity because, simply, insanity is a very powerful word.
Insanity is the milkman/postman in Psychonauts.

And I only meant that people often justify war when they simply have no idea of their true purpose and only trust their government for a view over it.

I fucking love psychonauts.

Insanity actually has no static definition. It's just what we call flaws that obstruct the thought process of a person to such a point it impairs his functioning in human society. I think Breivik qualifies for that, even if he isn't parano´d about killer girl scouts

neversleep:
I fucking love psychonauts.

Insanity actually has no static definition. It's just what we call flaws that obstruct the thought process of a person to such a point it impairs his functioning in human society. I think Breivik qualifies for that, even if he isn't parano´d about killer girl scouts

It's what we say now, although I'm fairly certain that back in the day they didn't mean that.

My point is that we use the term "insanity" all too often. It will end up with us calling people insane for anything they do that we disagree with.

And then we must invent a new word for the truly insane... "insanalicious"?

neversleep:

M-E-D The Poet:

Vegosiux:
The closing speeches in the Breivik trial were today. And I must say I'm not really surprised about the prosecution's stance - instead of sending him to prison, they believe he should be put, permanently, into a closed section of a mental institution, so that he can be removed from the society for good. Basically, if sentenced to prison, he'd get out eventually because Norway doesn't do life sentences, but a loony bin doesn't have such a restriction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18530670

Just wondering what the impressions and opinions from people will be like. I pretty much agree with it, stash him somewhere where he's not a danger anymore. And he clearly is crazy enough to try something funny if sent to prison then released when the time has been served - obviously not at that scale, considering he wouldn't have such resources at his disposal again, but he could still cause some mayhem.

he has been determined to be sane on multiple occasions, they wish to declare him insane because it's difficult for people to understand that his thinking was rational.

Yes,yes he killed people, you know who also kills people? Soldiers.
And that's how he went about his killings, like a soldier fighting for a cause.

shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

On topic: I'm glad he got shut up in the loony bin. A life sentence is best for the country's safety and it's the one thing he absolutely did not want.

Also as sane as he might think he is. his "sane" reasoning made him massacre children and plan a double bombing.

the world is sick, mankind is sick.

Did I say I agree with him?

He does not have a mental condition its a fact

You can wish it upon him as much as you want but he doesn't.

There are people in this world who actually think like this, that does not make them mentally ill.

People like you who say HE'S SICK then call upon what he's done as a base for that do not know how the system works, not every killer is mentally deranged, that would mean he did not have an agenda with all of this the fact of the matter is he did have an agenda he knew exactly what he was doing and he did it because of a message he wanted to send.

This is called terrorism or Zealous killing.

Remember Politicians like the Dutch Geert Wilders who he says to be inspired by?

They're allowed to utter such nonsense as actually believing that what he did was a good thing and they're not doubted in their mental state now are they?

Learn some basic facts about the difference between what you want someone to be and what can be scientifically proven.

neversleep:

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
-snip-

I do believe you missed my point entirely.
All I meant was that you use a point that can not only be applied to people who "are insane". And that you could possibly not be such a hothead.

I, in no way, meant to defend Breivik and his twisted actions.
Even if I do object to the use of the word "insanity", and any variations thereupon.

I'm glad you are a reasonable person. I don't think i'm that much of a hothead, but I admit that this is one of the topics that makes me want to rip the head off anyone defending that monster. your mocking tone in your post made me think that it was your intention to do so.

I do think that any soldier killing innocent civillians should be put on trial and possibly imprisoned. firing upon unarmed civilians is an action that is generally frowned upon.

and yes I do think Breivik is insane. He might have deliberately planned his attack and he might be able to debate it. But his reasoning is extremely twisted, twisted to such a point that he is unwilling to see why his actions are so wrong. The extra depressing part is that most of his political targets within the "political summercamp" were never going to vote for the party Breivik was opposing. Alot of teenagers went there because, hey cheap summercamp.

I'm not sure what you mean in the bit addressed to Kordie but I hope you know that the only "first incident" the political party Breivik attacked had caused was legalisation of immigrants? Or is that not what you mean.

anyways, glad to read you're not a psycho

I'm not defending this man in the rights of what he's done but on the fact that he can easily be a man who is sane and it has been proven that he is

YOU think he's a twisted man, this is your vision against his.
Do you think all muslims are psychopaths then? because Muslims believe women are below men.
Do you think every polygamist (man who has multiple wives) is insane because he has many wives?
Do you think the chinese vietnamese and russians were massively insane because they believed in communism and fought wars for it?

What you're doing is calling this man Insane, you believe his mental state to be one sickness, a man who can't rationally think.

Let me explain something about psychopaths,They DO NOT explain themselves in such a manner as this man is able to do.
They DO NOT have political ambitions.

This man did what he did because he had a political view and he wanted to incite both terror and revolution against something he deemed wrong.

Kordie:
Keep in mind that his attacks were all politically motivated. There is a following that, while not condoning his actions, holds similar beliefs. If the court can go through with declaring him insane (keep in mind being legally insane is not the same as clinicly insane) then they can punish the man and disrupt the followers he has. Being declared insane can completely negate his motivations and effect he was trying to achieve. Take this from June 5th's trial coverage;
"Defence witnesses from the far right backed Breivik's views on Islam in court.

They said Norway was threatened by Muslim immigration, an argument used by Breivik in an attempt to justify his attacks.

However, the speakers did not condone Breivik's attacks.

Breivik's defence said the extremists' testimony proved he was not insane because others shared his views."

And May 24th;
"Breivik told the court that he will not appeal agaist a guilty verdict if the court finds him sane. He says he wants to be declared to sane to prove he had rational, ideological motives for the killings."

Breivik's wants to be either exonerated or given the death penalty, he can be innocent or a martyr. Declaring him insane will effect anyone who thinks the same way as him.

So, the whole trial is a political farce.

There will be no justice from this, only a vain political "triumph" for the status quo.

Breivik deserves the death penalty, and nothing less.

neversleep:

TheNamlessGuy:

neversleep:
anyways, glad to read you're not a psycho

If I had a nickle...

Anyway, I object to the use of insanity because, simply, insanity is a very powerful word.
Insanity is the milkman/postman in Psychonauts.

And I only meant that people often justify war when they simply have no idea of their true purpose and only trust their government for a view over it.

I fucking love psychonauts.

Insanity actually has no static definition. It's just what we call flaws that obstruct the thought process of a person to such a point it impairs his functioning in human society. I think Breivik qualifies for that, even if he isn't parano´d about killer girl scouts

Oh your dear lord will strike me down for this : He was not acting irrationally, we in the field of psychology do hold standards for insanity.
To be Declared insane, a psychopath, or mentally unstable your actions have to be Irrational, your responses will follow particular patterns, you will possibly self harm or have a sexual release with your killing , a psychopath doesn't kill because he wants to send out a message, he kills because it benefits him personally it stops his mind from sending particular impulses or it gratifies his needs

MammothBlade:

Kordie:
Keep in mind that his attacks were all politically motivated. There is a following that, while not condoning his actions, holds similar beliefs. If the court can go through with declaring him insane (keep in mind being legally insane is not the same as clinicly insane) then they can punish the man and disrupt the followers he has. Being declared insane can completely negate his motivations and effect he was trying to achieve. Take this from June 5th's trial coverage;
"Defence witnesses from the far right backed Breivik's views on Islam in court.

They said Norway was threatened by Muslim immigration, an argument used by Breivik in an attempt to justify his attacks.

However, the speakers did not condone Breivik's attacks.

Breivik's defence said the extremists' testimony proved he was not insane because others shared his views."

And May 24th;
"Breivik told the court that he will not appeal agaist a guilty verdict if the court finds him sane. He says he wants to be declared to sane to prove he had rational, ideological motives for the killings."

Breivik's wants to be either exonerated or given the death penalty, he can be innocent or a martyr. Declaring him insane will effect anyone who thinks the same way as him.

So, the whole trial is a political farce.

There will be no justice from this, only a vain political "triumph" for the status quo.

Breivik deserves the death penalty, and nothing less.

this is my point exactly, the man has already been found to be sane.

We do not institute the death penalty anymore so you want to just put him in a mental institute because there will be repercussions when you officially declare him sane?

That actually smells like something immoral, unjust , and detriment to the entire legal system

M-E-D The Poet:

neversleep:

M-E-D The Poet:
he has been determined to be sane on multiple occasions, they wish to declare him insane because it's difficult for people to understand that his thinking was rational.

Yes,yes he killed people, you know who also kills people? Soldiers.
And that's how he went about his killings, like a soldier fighting for a cause.

shooting at unarmed children on a summercamp. Because of a delusional belief that they were political activists forcing his country to not discriminate. If you believe what you are saying I think you are a sick individual.

On topic: I'm glad he got shut up in the loony bin. A life sentence is best for the country's safety and it's the one thing he absolutely did not want.

Also as sane as he might think he is. his "sane" reasoning made him massacre children and plan a double bombing.

the world is sick, mankind is sick.

Did I say I agree with him?

He does not have a mental condition its a fact

You can wish it upon him as much as you want but he doesn't.

There are people in this world who actually think like this, that does not make them mentally ill.

People like you who say HE'S SICK then call upon what he's done as a base for that do not know how the system works, not every killer is mentally deranged, that would mean he did not have an agenda with all of this the fact of the matter is he did have an agenda he knew exactly what he was doing and he did it because of a message he wanted to send.

This is called terrorism or Zealous killing.

Remember Politicians like the Dutch Geert Wilders who he says to be inspired by?

They're allowed to utter such nonsense as actually believing that what he did was a good thing and they're not doubted in their mental state now are they?

Learn some basic facts about the difference between what you want someone to be and what can be scientifically proven.

His complete lack of empathy strikes me as inhuman. then again it would be nice if we could point rightwing activism as a source of this hatecrime. I do think Breivik is best off in a psych ward for life instead of being able to get out at some point.

having said that i'm sorry I attacked you. Politically or racially motivated crimes are apparently my berserk button.

A whole bunch of rude and ignorant posters have been ruining my online experiences lately and I believed to be in such a situation again and was outraged. Ironically being as much of a douchebag to you as they were to me. I'm fairly ashamed right now.

Good.

That's all I'm gonna say about it. Theres absolutely no fucking way I'm going to be pulled into another discussion about this bullshit. No. Fucking. Way. The last 3 times were enough, I mean seriously, I'm not going to even read this thread because it's just going to aggravate me. Goodbye.

 

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked