Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

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RobfromtheGulag:

Kahunaburger:
Nintendo has discovered what is essentially crack for 5th graders. Why would they stop making it?

How is it that it stays appealing to the 5th graders even as time passes though? Do new 5th graders get on board, or do the 5th graders from R/B days still play it? The latter has not been the case in my experience, I just wonder how it still has appeal and exposure to young audiences in this constantly changing atmosphere.

The anime is still going, to my knowledge. I believe it airs at like 7 or 8AM on CN or something, which is usually about the time children are getting up to get ready for school/eating breakfast, including (I think) a new episode sometime on Saturday and I know that around noon on Saturdays they always have like two episodes on.

Not to mention that the TCG is still going strong, I'm not sure where exactly, but it's still alive and kicking pretty well if the cards are still being made along with full CG commercials for each new iteration of cards.

All in all it has the exact same appeal as it did for us when we were young as the new generation has now. "Woah, this guy has a cool pet with super powers! I want one! Wow, he's on an adventure to become the Pokemon Master instead of sitting in boring old school!"

Honestly, that's why everyone watched the show. Ash, unlike us, got to go on adventures with monsters and his friends instead of sitting in school. It made us feel like we were on the adventure ourselves.

This is also why the anime hasn't changed, and they have now begun to replace all key characters except Pikachu, and why he is always so weak, and why you never even really hear about Ash's other Pokemon or exploits in other regions (Seriously, does nobody recognize the guy who has reached at least the semi-finals in every league, beaten every gym so far, defeated every battle frontier, and the Orange league?) In fact, the only time you actually ever see or hear about Ash's other Pokemon anymore is usually the League battle section of the newest season, where he always brings over two or three older-STRONGER-faces to fight with. I'm not even sure if he talks to Oak or his own mother anymore.

Because this way, it's fresh, and it's new for the new generation of viewers. GF finally realized that after four generations that most of the original viewers probably aren't watching it anymore.

I'm rambling.

TL;DR

Kids will always like what kids have always liked. It's not the quality of the show, but how it is presented.

J. Mazarin:
SUDDENLY: OPINIONS EVERYWHERE

Pokemon was an enormous part of my childhood, though I generally stopped paying attention after gen 2, sticking with R/B/Y and G/S/C. Black and White revived my interest in the series, and I'm genuinely looking forward to B/W 2 as it looks like they have a chance to be the best Pokemon games I've ever played.

You grew up. You got older. And now, you don't enjoy the new games as much as you enjoyed the older games when you were a kid. Sounds like you have a TRAGIC variation of Star-Wars-Fan-Itis.

Just because you don't like the series anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It's bigger than it's ever been, and it'll continue to grow whether you like it or not.

image

That analogy doesn't work because the prequels were objectively complete shit. No, you can't argue against it, Red Letter Media made it a fact already.

Pokemon died for me after the ones with Regi things. Y'know, those golems that required a ridiculously unintuitive sequence of events to make appear and then required at least 60 attempts to capture with ultraballs.

Syzygy23:

That analogy doesn't work because the prequels were objectively complete shit. No, you can't argue against it, Red Letter Media made it a fact already.

Pokemon died for me after the ones with Regi things. Y'know, those golems that required a ridiculously unintuitive sequence of events to make appear and then required at least 60 attempts to capture with ultraballs.

Nobody will ever argue they were not.

Edit: quoted the wrong post. I hate this new forum look with a fiery passion.

Totally agree. I loved the Mystery Dungeon games.

OT: Opinions presented as facts. A successful series which generated a lot of income for Nintendo should be discontinued. I wont bother to go into more details why this thread is stupid.

Oooh great, Another thread, of someone else not liking the GEN 5 Pokemon's. *Sigh*

I admit, i haven't been on Black or white for ages, but that's because i have pretty much done everything. However when BW2 comes out in England i'm going to be bossing it!

Gen 5 added some of the best Pokemon around, such as Axew's evolutionary forms, Joltik and his evolution, and Snivy's forms and Oshawotts. Tepig is awesome but his evo's are meh.

Also we got Dark/Dragon type, and a Bug/fire type, which completely shakes things up from a competitive stand point, plus the new moves that are included are awesome (Now Electrode finally has a use instead of just his speed with Electro-ball)

Oooh plus, BW2 is a sequel, not a new game entirely, someone should do research on Serebii or something, because BW2 looks to be the best thing that ever happened to Pokemon, it's the first time a region has been completely changed and has had different gyms, plus Hardmode (which im guessing is like New game +) looks to shake things uo even more!

Know what I'd love to see in a pokemon spinoff game?

Real-time combat.

Like, you travel the overworld, then are transported to a themed arena when you run into a pokemon/trainer. I imagine smash bros./mega man (x,zero,zx) style combat with your pokemon's 4 move translating to the 4 B moves of a smash bros. character.

I can agree that Gen V had some weak designs, but really, every generation has its weak spots. I mean, some of Gen I's designs included a half-dozen eggs with eyes, an upside-down Pokeball with eyes, a pile of sludge with eyes and a purple rat. For every good design, there were at least two bad ones. It's simply the nature of the game; when you base Pokemon designs on common objects and animals, you're bound to end up with a few duds before long.

The games themselves are only improving, each generation having improved and built upon the generation that came before it. Really, the series has limitless potential, and there's nowhere to go from here but up.

Many friends of mine (some which are pretty...hardcore into pokemon.) said that B&W was by far the best entry in the series.

So, opinions. You disliked it. Doesn't mean it's has to be objectively bad.

I don't have any of the generation 5 games and for me, Pokemon doesn't exist past generation 4. Its like Ronald Reagan, toward the end of his life he became a babbling, mindless ninny due to Alzheimer, but instead of that we choose to remember him for all the good that he did for America. So yes, let Pokemon die, it wants to die. How about releasing all the gameboy games for the DS so we can give that to our children instead? Maybe Ash can go back to Kanto and take the gym challenge again, since apparently his memory and pokemon are wiped every time he crosses the border of a region. Just please, please, don't add a single other Pokemon, pretty soon we'll be getting into the thousands and I'm sorry, the creativity in your inkjet monster printer started running out around Gen 4. Accept it and move on.

TheKasp:

LooK iTz Jinjo:
I would point you all to this:

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.' When I saw this in the game for the first time, this was the point I realized, "Shit they are running out of ideas."

I did not enjoy Black/White anywhere near as much as I enjoyed the original R/B/G and the subsequent remakes Fire Red and Leaf Green. Now this is not to say "I didn't enjoy it, so no one did" BUT it is to say that when you do have a large amount of people feeling disenfranchised by these new Pokemon, a significantly larger amount of people than when say Gen 3 or 4 came out, maybe we need to have a more in depth discussion than just yelling at each other about whose OPINION is more valid.

May I point you towards Muk, a pile of mud. How is Muk better than Thrubbish?

How is Muk any better than Thrubbish? I'll tell you how. Because Muk's evolutionary chain has the single greatest origin story of any Pokemon ever.

Muks are born from Grimers, who were first created, via *Bombastic 60's Movie Trailer Voice* X-RAYS FROM THE MOON!!! /Voice

That's right, created via an emission from the moon, that I'm pretty sure the moon doesn't emit naturally. Due to this lack of naturally produced, *Bombastic 60's Movie Trailer Voice* X-RAYS FROM THE MOOON!!! /Voice, we are forced to jump to the next logical and rational conclusion.

That being, of course, that Muk's are the eventual side effect of secret Space Nazi experiments with the Necronomicon to create X-Ray producing sludge demons.

Obviously, Muk are humanity's last hope from the oncoming invasion of Swastika shaped poison mud people!

HUMANITY'S LAST, BEST HOPE!


image

As for the continuation of Pokemon as a franchise, I think I'm pretty Pokemon'd out. I foresee my next, and last purchase, being that of a RSE sequel or remake, but nothing more. I love Pokemon, but as it stands, I'm more or less done with them, at least as I stand right now.

The designs are starting to wear on me a bit, and as a post on these forums pointed out, it does look more and more like they're wearing clothes, and in some cases, they literally are wearing clothes. Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Anyway, as for my final points: 1) If Pokemon were to end, I think now would be a decent enough time to do it, but I'm not hoping for that. Honestly, I'd like them to take a break and really think of how to shake the can up for a few years before they try again. And 2) Nintendo is not ending it. That's a premonition I'm more than comfortable backing up. Wish what you may like, but as it stands, making as much as it is, it's not going to gracefully exit. Oh no, far from it.

silver wolf009:
Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.

Innegativeion:

silver wolf009:
Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.

Speaking of Jynx...who here has seen this? It's quite an eye-opener as to the origins of certain Pokémon.

Anyways...I think in regards to this topic, if we really want to see definitive proof that this game isn't going anywhere soon, we should look at how much it has improved over the generations. To do that...just look at the Pokémon themselves!

Take a look at the type distribution for RBY. I just used the fully evolved versions for this chart. "Plain" refers to single types.

Now...let's look at JUST the Pokémon released for BW. Again, same rules with the RBY distribution. I will not be including Keldeo, Melodetta, or Genosect though as they have not been released to us.

I think you see how Game Freak improved. The best part is it also provides a counterargument to the "too many Pokémon" complaint the Nostalgists have been becrying. Mainly because it could be argued that instead of "too many Pokémon" now we actually had "too FEW Pokémon" then.

My major issue is that Pokemon seems to be evolving into Digimon, but not in the COOL way.

:/

Geez... It's almost like you aren't in the target audience anymore.

Why wouldn't you want younger kids to have the same enjoyment you had when you were young? How would they do that if the game were only available on consoles that were phased out before they were born?

Just because YOU don't feel catered to anymore doesn't mean the series should stop.

In short, Fish gotta swim, Birds gotta fly, and Genwunners gonna Wun.

Terminate421:

Bhaalspawn:
It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.
.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

Sean Hollyman:
Likewise I loved Gen V, it had a coherent plot, and some nice new designs.

And some shitty ones.

Have to say, that is the second funniest avatar I have ever seen (Killer whale eating Bambi is still first). BRAVO!

OT: OP gave his opinion. Doesn't stop him from being wrong. In my opinion.

I don't have a DS, so I never played Black or White, but my 7 year old brother is enjoying it just the same as I enjoyed blue. Nuff said.

SpectacularWebHead:
There's only so many times you can release the exact same game and get away with it.

One could argue that's been Nintendo's business plan for a while now. When you take a look at all of their big franchises, (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, etc.) each sequel is essentially the last game with one or two new things.

Anyway, Black and White were the first games to have a real plot. Maybe it wasn't the greatest plot of all time, but it was more than "I'm gonna be the Pokémon Champion!" plus some minor bad guy thing that was really just a catalyst to encounter the Legendary du jour.

I think they sacrificed new Pokémon for more story in Black/White 2. (I should mention I haven't been keeping up with news on the game, so maybe I'm completely wrong.) Why else would it be a direct sequel? I'd imagine creating a whole new generation of monsters takes up much of the development time.

Maybe they're done creating new creatures. Maybe they want to finally expand the world and the lore.

SpectacularWebHead:

Now, If this is the case with Black And White 2, except without the the third legendary pokemon unlock, they are in fact, the same game.

Of course, given they've already teased a new story and discussed elements of it, this hypothetical is completely pointless.

They are not, in fact, the same game. It'd be nice if there were new Pokés, but whatever.

EcoEclipse:

Maybe they're done creating new creatures. Maybe they want to finally expand the world and the lore.

I don't see them ending the new Pokémon. There have been several iterations that don't have new ones. This is actually fairly standard for the third version.

However, I wouldn't be horrified if they spent more time building the world around you rather than just giving you new pets.

This is the EXACT thing I've been thinking! I knew I wasn't crazy.

...wait, damn! I wanted to be the crazy one.

Having played every pokemon game ever released...
and watched every TV episode english dubbed...

I can say that it hasn't changed at all...

yep, OP is right, the games haven't changed... They're still the same old story and (virtually) the same old characters doing it for the same old reason...

But, that's about all...

BECAUSE everything is still the same, the games are still great... If they were great then, they are still great now, because NOTHING has changed over the years...

Sure, SOME of the designs look like Game Freak is running out of ideas, but, in all honesty, I highly, highly doubt that...

Black/White 2... Can't wait for them... They might not add much to the originals, but, it's no different from, say... Yellow version, Crystal version, Emerald version, Platinum version...

Game Freak has been doing the "release new region, wait a few years, release second version of said region" since the dawn of the games...

TL;DR: Pokemon hasn't changed over the years, it's still the same... eg. still brilliant...

They've done this sequel/expansion thing with literally every single generation of pokemon. Why is this worthy of getting mad about now? And if their changes and improvements are more extensive than the past sequel versions (as my little bit of research suggests), then why single this version as a showcase of creative stagnation?

Sean Hollyman:
snip

Apropos of nothing much, you have the most bestest animated avatar ever made in the history of ever. Ever.

As for the thread, birds fly, fish swim, Pokemon fans complain about the new generation. I hit my disillusionment point in third or fourth generation when I saw Wingull. Don't even know what it was about the Pokemon, but I just suddenly lost interest. If I was a whinging type of person, I probably would've been on forums back then complaining my head off.

Since then I've come back. Pokemon as a franchise is fine. I despise Icecream-mon, I'm bewildered that they made another Fire/Fighting starter, but oh well. I had more fun with White Version than any Pokemon game I've played since Gold version, back when that first came out.

Evil Smurf:

Terminate421:

Bhaalspawn:
It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.
.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

What? Red? How? Where? Why? What?

Innegativeion:

silver wolf009:
Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.

Never saw it as flowing. Don't know why. It always gave me the impression of rigidity.

Sean Hollyman:

Evil Smurf:

Terminate421:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

What? Red? How? Where? Why? What?

From what I've been able to find, he's going to be in some kind of elimination tournament, and he'll be scaled down to level with the other entries.

I got (back) into pokemon after playing HG. I also learned about the deeper mechanics of the game like EVs and DVs. It gets surprisingly complacated if you start breedig pokemon for perfect DVs. One hatched evee just mutated to a jolly 30|31|31|4(-)|31|31(+) while i was trying to breed a vaperon (with entirely different nature and stats).

So about the new games? The new pokemon arent as bad as you think at first sight. Most of the old ones are so much better because nostalgia. There were horrible pokemon in the past there are horrible ones now. The gameplay itself is still good and didn't change all that much and if it changed then for the better. And if the "all games are the same issue" bothers you it's more of a general nintendo issue.

I don't understand why it's always the Pokemon franchise that everyone hates on. Legend of Zelda and Mario have probably had just as many games as Pokemon has, if not even more, which I'm pretty sure is the case, especially considering how many mario spin offs there's been. But they get no ridicule, it's always Pokemon.

Another thing I don't understand is why everyone says gen 5 is the worst. Half the pokemon created in gen 4 were evolutions on families from way earlier generations? And you call gen 5 unoriginal, when what they did was reboot the series with a whole new target audience, a whole new place (america instead of japan), and a whole new bunch of pokemon. Sure the golden oldies came back in the aftergame but so what, everything you encountered in the main story was brand new.

I'm not denying that there were some bad designs in gen 5, because there were. But gen 5 is not the only culprit. Heck, look at gen 1. Muk? Dugtrio? Voltorb? A pile of sludge, a 3 way clone of its pre-evolution and a poke ball. Very creative. In gen 5 we have a haunted chandelier that takes humans souls.

All I'm saying is, stop letting nostalgia cloud your judgement. Please?

Meh. FF is still the same game and they've made *ahem* an imperial Shit-Ton of those.

shrekfan246:
image

I hope you have a powerful flame shield for when the Pokemon fans come out of the woodwork.

Anyway.

I'm not a huge fan of the Gen. 5 Pokemon designs, they're largely unimpressive to me, but I have to say one thing in favor of the games: Black & White developed a much more in-depth story than had been previously used. Which... is really a bit of a double-edged blade for the Pokemon franchise.

Black & White's opening feels much slower than the previous generations did, because there is a significantly larger amount of text and exposition being thrown out in the player's face before they even get to the first gym in relation to how the previous games have all gone about it (Note: I'm not actually sure about whether this is true for Platinum, Diamond & Pearl because... well, I don't remember those games anymore). It decided to take the story much more seriously than before, so I'll give props to Nintendo for that.

But as a person who doesn't care about the competitive side of Pokemon and/or isn't young anymore... I'm just feeling like Pokemon isn't really the franchise for me anymore. Nintendo put a heavier emphasis on the story in Black & White, but they didn't really do anything to change up the combat formula since the previous generation, except making the computer AI slightly more difficult to fight by buffing their stats. Artificial difficulty. Annoying.

Eh, I'm not going to tell other people to stop buying Pokemon games, but I don't think they're really for me anymore.

I'd hate to twist your words, but I have a similar sentiment summed up into two words; grow up. I watched Pokemon when it first came out (I even taped it, and Christ that makes me feel old, VHS for the lose), and had the first two generations of the games. But I just couldn't be interested after that. If you are disliking the iterations of the series that they are putting out now, then quit.

Wow, people in this thread really needed a slap on the hand when they were typing.

The OP said that he loved the original games and that he was going to show them to his kids.

HOW. DOES. THAT. IMPLY. THAT. THE. NEW. GAMES. RUINED. THE. FIRST. ONES?

Really, you people have amazing mind reading skills if you can tell that from the OP.

J. Mazarin:
You grew up. You got older. And now, you don't enjoy the new games as much as you enjoyed the older games when you were a kid. Sounds like you have a TRAGIC variation of Star-Wars-Fan-Itis.

Just because you don't like the series anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It's bigger than it's ever been, and it'll continue to grow whether you like it or not.

How does that relate? The Star Wars prequels were different from the original trilogy, fact. Totally different from Pokemon's case, since the games stay pretty much true to it's roots.

If I can still enjoy Super Metroid after playing Other M, you can still enjoy the old pokemon after playing Black and White.

If black and White's pokemon were the original's, would you feel the same way? Well...maybe. But I personally doubt it.

Sean Hollyman:

What? Red? How? Where? Why? What?

image

Yeah, I saw this and responded with "Shut up and take my money".

I'm also wondering why everyone has to pick on poor Vanillite and Trubbish. Surely if gen 5 is the worst ever, there's more than two good examples of "poor design".

Pokemon was pretty much my childhood. I remember getting a Gameboy for my birthday and playing Red version. I watched the Anime, bought some of the movies on VHS too. I was a big fan of it when I was a kid. Hell, I even collected the trading cards. Silver was brilliant for me and that moment at the end where you face off against 'Red', AMAZING.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acbPU4wYJw

I still look back on it and think about those memories, but I do fear those memories will be tainted by the new releases. I get the feeling that Nintendo might not just milk the cow till it's balls drop off, they might just take a Chainsaw and hack it into pieces.

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