Is Bethesda becoming another EA?

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Ok, before I throw myself into this, I need to clarify something.
Please note that I am talking about Bethesda the publisher, not BGS(bethesda game studios) the developers.

Right, moving on...

So EA is a company known for their ugly business practices and general stupidity. Just recently they publicly announced that Zynga's recent stock troubles was due to not being able to "diversify" their product lineup -which followed the announcement of their eighth Sims 3 expansion.

In the recent days Bethesda appears to be taking some vile pages from EA's 'Big book of appropriate business practices', like the most recent PC release of Dawnguard - for 20 euro(that's 2/3 the price I paid for the full game on launch day). And the lawsuit against Mojang over a single word, which they lost.

I fear that the recent actions made by Bethesda might in fact be influenced EA's general behavior over the years, and if I'm right that means that the piss poor practice of EA is causing some form of cross company peer pressure.

Any thoughts? (examples and counter-examples would be welcomed.)

Off-topic: The captcha for this post was "banana bread", delicious!

But they're working with Valve.

/thread

I would say no there can only be one EA it takes time, effort, and dedication to make yourself hated by so many with such fervour and bethesda arent there.

From what I understand bethesda had to take file a case against mojang or actually lose the ability to protest against further cases ones which may actually bother them (could be wrong here though those who actually know the details feel free to correct me) and as for Dawnguard being to expensive well just dont buy it then and wait for the GOTY edition or a sale almost all companies will try and get as much cash as possible out of their consumers its not just an EA thing.

I fail to see Bethesda copying EA in its business practices except on a very broad level which is inevitable because a business is a business and most want to turn a profit.

I'm sorry, but EA is Dilbert management right now. Nobody else can match them.

dimensional:

From what I understand bethesda had to take file a case against mojang or actually lose the ability to protest against further cases ones which may actually bother them (could be wrong here though those who actually know the details feel free to correct me) and as for Dawnguard being to expensive well just dont buy it then and wait for the GOTY edition or a sale almost all companies will try and get as much cash as possible out of their consumers its not just an EA thing.

You are indeed correct. It has to do with screwed-up american copyright laws: Basically, if you don't sue over a potential copyright infringement you end up forfeiting your right to later sue against any other copyright infringement. Pete Hines himself even made some apologetic statements in interviews in regards to the lawsuit against Mojang.

As for Dawnguard, I can agree with the OP that it feels overpriced. The correct response is not to shout "Bethesda evil!" but rather to not purchase at all until it hits a pricing range in which you feel comfortable buying it, just like you say. If they start getting loads of sales when it hits the 10 euro/dollar mark (isn't it funny how europeans seem to be paying like 30% more for their games on Steam/XBL?) I think Bethesda will catch on. But you can't blame them for trying to maximize their profits on sales, because that's what companies are meant to do.

The only difference is that Bethesda hasn't pissed off consumers in such a relentless fashion as EA. Sure, they made one lackluster DLC overpriced. That doesn't make them the equivalent of gaming's Joseph Stalin.

Accountfailed:
In the recent days Bethesda appears to be taking some vile pages from EA's 'Big book of appropriate business practices', like the most recent PC release of Dawnguard - for 20 euro(that's 2/3 the price I paid for the full game on launch day). And the lawsuit against Mojang over a single word, which they lost.

Im sorry but this whole Dawnguard raging thing is mostly gamer entitlement BS imo, IIRC the older ES exp packs including Knights of the Nine were around the same price at launch. If you don't think the game is worth it then don't buy it and wait until it drops in price.

I havn't played DG but from what I understand it's a classic PC styled expansion pack, Beth should be praised for doing so rather than breaking it up piecemeal into DLC.

At the end of the day Bethesda is a company out to make money, they aren't out to be a gamers friend and as long as they continue to provide value in their products and don't monetise the crap out of it like every other big publisher is doing atm, they should be praised imo.

Theres a big difference between Beth and EA who almost seems to love trolling everybody and holding their games at ransom.

Anyone remember SWtOR and the crazy price EA were selling their "pre order limited edition / collectors edition" Origin version? Yeah big difference.

I don't think Bethesda are bad for releasing expensive DLC. It's not even that expensive. It's between the price of Knights of the Nine and The Shivering Isles on XBL (referred to XBL since their prices aren't reduced), and it's got about that much content too. I guess you could say it's somewhat overpriced, but so is almost all DLC. They're not especially evil for pricing Dawnguard at the price they did, they're just following how the market value something like that. Other publishers have done far worse.

To be honest I don't really get the negative reaction people have had to Dawnguard. I had a lot of fun with it, but I wasn't expecting it to blow my mind. I feel like some people were disappointed that it didn't even though pretty much all the reviews for it said it wouldn't. I felt it was worth the price.

Their sue-happy legal department is not exactly respectable though. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the games they make or how they release them. I can also kind of understand why they went after Scrolls. They were afraid that if Mojang called their game "Scrolls" then other game makers might decide that they could get away with liberally "borrowing" names from their franchise. They didn't want to give an inch in case some fool decided to release a crappy knock off on iOS or something called "The Elder Scripts" or something like that. They were overzealous with how they went about it, but I can at least see why they did. They weren't trying to be anti-competitive, just protect what was theirs. It's not like they were trying to sue a small company because they used a similar menu or saving system, or something like that.

Plus, you know who else is fiercely defensive of their IP? Nintendo. They don't get scorn because of it.

Although Bethesda isn't perfect, it's one of the few respectable publishers out there right now who actually want to give people good games, instead of just sucking people dry through nickel-and-diming people, or releasing yearly sequels and saturating the market.

It's a bit too soon to say. The whole DLC thing with Bethesda the now is bullshit but I don't think they are at the EA level of awfulness. And no I don't think they will. (Or I hope they don't turn into EA's mentally challenged twin)

Blaming Bethesda's business practices on EA. That's impressive.

A company with questionable business practices isn't new, and it certainly wasn't started by EA.

Yea dawngaurd is overpriced, but still a better deal than any DLC that comes from EA (15 dollars a few hour DLC in mass effect). Not to mention, their DLC will go down in price unlike EA.

EDIT: derped and put COD DLC instead

Ryotknife:
Yea dawngaurd is overpriced, but still a better deal than any DLC that comes from EA (15 dollars for 2 maps in COD....). Not to mention, their DLC will go down in price unlike EA.

...EA has nothing to do with Call Of Duty, and each map pack is either 4-5 maps.

Scrustle:
I don't think Bethesda are bad for releasing expensive DLC. It's not even that expensive. It's between the price of Knights of the Nine and The Shivering Isles on XBL (referred to XBL since their prices aren't reduced), and it's got about that much content too. I guess you could say it's somewhat overpriced, but so is almost all DLC. They're not especially evil for pricing Dawnguard at the price they did, they're just following how the market value something like that. Other publishers have done far worse.

To be honest I don't really get the negative reaction people have had to Dawnguard. I had a lot of fun with it, but I wasn't expecting it to blow my mind. I feel like some people were disappointed that it didn't even though pretty much all the reviews for it said it wouldn't. I felt it was worth the price.

Their sue-happy legal department is not exactly respectable though. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the games they make or how they release them. I can also kind of understand why they went after Scrolls. They were afraid that if Mojang called their game "Scrolls" then other game makers might decide that they could get away with liberally "borrowing" names from their franchise. They didn't want to give an inch in case some fool decided to release a crappy knock off on iOS or something called "The Elder Scripts" or something like that. They were overzealous with how they went about it, but I can at least see why they did. They weren't trying to be anti-competitive, just protect what was theirs. It's not like they were trying to sue a small company because they used a similar menu or saving system, or something like that.

Plus, you know who else is fiercely defensive of their IP? Nintendo. They don't get scorn because of it.

Although Bethesda isn't perfect, it's one of the few respectable publishers out there right now who actually want to give people good games, instead of just sucking people dry through nickel-and-diming people, or releasing yearly sequels and saturating the market.

See this? It's a gamer with logic. Kudos to you Ser!

Incompetence and blatant greed aren't really the same thing, though they can be confused on occasion.

bethesda only make xbox 360 games these days with half assed ports. which is sad when its the pc modding community that keeps their games being played years after release.

the days of huge quest mods that you saw for oblivion are over

imahobbit4062:

See this? It's a gamer with logic. Kudos to you Ser!

Why, thank you!

Ryotknife:
Yea dawngaurd is overpriced, but still a better deal than any DLC that comes from EA (15 dollars a few hour DLC in mass effect). Not to mention, their DLC will go down in price unlike EA.

EDIT: derped and put COD DLC instead

Here is a wild suggestion.

If you dont think the DLC is worth the money... dont buy it?

I mean are they evil for offering it?

I have a brain in my skull. I can go "Yay" or "Nay" to it. Do you not have that privilege?

FalloutJack:
I'm sorry, but EA is Dilbert management right now. Nobody else can match them.

I don't know what you're talking about the Pointy Haired Boss is quite a reasonable individual.
image

No way.

You really have to go far to match EA and at this point Bethesda is not there yet. Nowhere close.

Scrustle:
I don't think Bethesda are bad for releasing expensive DLC. It's not even that expensive. It's between the price of Knights of the Nine and The Shivering Isles on XBL (referred to XBL since their prices aren't reduced), and it's got about that much content too. I guess you could say it's somewhat overpriced, but so is almost all DLC. They're not especially evil for pricing Dawnguard at the price they did, they're just following how the market value something like that. Other publishers have done far worse.

To be honest I don't really get the negative reaction people have had to Dawnguard. I had a lot of fun with it, but I wasn't expecting it to blow my mind. I feel like some people were disappointed that it didn't even though pretty much all the reviews for it said it wouldn't. I felt it was worth the price.

Their sue-happy legal department is not exactly respectable though. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the games they make or how they release them. I can also kind of understand why they went after Scrolls. They were afraid that if Mojang called their game "Scrolls" then other game makers might decide that they could get away with liberally "borrowing" names from their franchise. They didn't want to give an inch in case some fool decided to release a crappy knock off on iOS or something called "The Elder Scripts" or something like that. They were overzealous with how they went about it, but I can at least see why they did. They weren't trying to be anti-competitive, just protect what was theirs. It's not like they were trying to sue a small company because they used a similar menu or saving system, or something like that.

Plus, you know who else is fiercely defensive of their IP? Nintendo. They don't get scorn because of it.

Although Bethesda isn't perfect, it's one of the few respectable publishers out there right now who actually want to give people good games, instead of just sucking people dry through nickel-and-diming people, or releasing yearly sequels and saturating the market.

Thank you for this, seriously. Bethesda is one of the final bastions of old school AAA publishing. They still value big content packs and have refused to practice one-day/on-disk DLC or any form of DRM outside of Steam.

...Wait, so because Bethesda had that whole "scrolls" lawsuit (which they probably had to do for dumb legal reasons, not because they actually wanted to) and sold Dawnguard at a relatively average DLC price...

Nevermind. Believe whatever you want to believe.

Accountfailed:
And the lawsuit against Mojang over a single word, which they lost.

Did they? I don't think they did. I believe it was settled out-of-court... because they were totally in the right for that one.

Don't believe me? You should look up exactly WHAT Notch had in his trademark application. He's a bit of a dunce, sometimes.

OT: People often forget that these "bad business practices" are STANDARD business practices, EA just gets all the hate because... some reason. Valve and CD Projekt are the very rare exception (and Valve is starting to slip).

If you hate these practices, get ready to move to the cottage industry (indies), because they're the only ones that don't try EA's antics.

I think Bethesda is evil because they are making a Elder Scrolls MMO and not another damn Fallout game and can get away with releasing unfinished games like it isn't a problem. Those are my problems with them. Also 20 dollars for a single DLC expansion? That better be at a pretty damn awesome expansion.

Lest I'm mistaken, Dawngaurd is an expansion pack. You know, the kind of thing that's been a part of PC gaming for well over a decade now. How exactly is doing something that by now is common practice bad business?

EDIT: Yes, I read the OP. It's not like there's any company these days that has an untarnished record, but none can match EA. NONE!

Hazy992:
Blaming Bethesda's business practices on EA. That's impressive.

A company with questionable business practices isn't new, and it certainly wasn't started by EA.

i agree with Hazy, sides, 1 law suit? and 1 over priced DLC pack? really? come on, two incidents do not an evil company make

i also agree with Hazy in terms of his title, takes a secure man to ware pink

Scrustle:

Their sue-happy legal department is not exactly respectable though. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the games they make or how they release them. I can also kind of understand why they went after Scrolls. They were afraid that if Mojang called their game "Scrolls" then other game makers might decide that they could get away with liberally "borrowing" names from their franchise. They didn't want to give an inch in case some fool decided to release a crappy knock off on iOS or something called "The Elder Scripts" or something like that. They were overzealous with how they went about it, but I can at least see why they did. They weren't trying to be anti-competitive, just protect what was theirs. It's not like they were trying to sue a small company because they used a similar menu or saving system, or something like that.

We should not forget:

Mojang wanted to patent the word "Scrolls" in about every form of media. If Zenimax / Bethesda did not go to court about it the Elder Scrolls franchise would've been vulnerable. (I also love that it always says that Bethesda / Zenimax wanted to claim the word for themselfs when in reality it was Mojang, the lovepig of the gamer community which can't do any wrong...)

Was the DLC on the disc on Day One? No.

Oh, look, we only have to go this far to say "No, they're not, don't be ridiculous."

Apples and oranges. The "Scrolls" lawsuit and Dawnguard fiasco are small beans compared to the garbage other developers have done in the past.

Although, I thought Bethesda learned their lesson after the Horse Armor fiasco.

Accountfailed:
Ok, before I throw myself into this, I need to clarify something.
Please note that I am talking about Bethesda the publisher, not BGS(bethesda game studios) the developers.

Right, moving on...

So EA is a company known for their ugly business practices and general stupidity. Just recently they publicly announced that Zynga's recent stock troubles was due to not being able to "diversify" their product lineup -which followed the announcement of their eighth Sims 3 expansion.

In the recent days Bethesda appears to be taking some vile pages from EA's 'Big book of appropriate business practices', like the most recent PC release of Dawnguard - for 20 euro(that's 2/3 the price I paid for the full game on launch day). And the lawsuit against Mojang over a single word, which they lost.

I fear that the recent actions made by Bethesda might in fact be influenced EA's general behavior over the years, and if I'm right that means that the piss poor practice of EA is causing some form of cross company peer pressure.

Any thoughts? (examples and counter-examples would be welcomed.)

Off-topic: The captcha for this post was "banana bread", delicious!

To be fair, Bethesda had to sue Mojang over trade mark infringement or risk not being able to do so again. Thats how trade marks work. Bethesda is even on record for saying they didnt want to be forced into that lawsuit but the fact was the people that handle trademarks said it had to be done if they wanted to continue owning their Elder scrolls trademark. Its a stupid law but its still the law

Now with DLC, its my opinion that generally Bethesda gives the best bang for your buck in the DLC market. They have always been more like expansion packs rather then little DLC bits you get from other developers. Dawnguard was the same. Having played it I personally dont think Dawnguard is worth $20 but it still added some interesting bits to the game. For me Dawnguards failing was how vampirism is not really a curse, Its very similar to Twilights style of vampires where you get a bunch of power with no curse and that goes against the very idea of vampire folklore. Still it came with big ideas and while I dont think that $20 is worth this DLC neither do I think them asking for $20 is outrageous (especially considering the state of our economy)

Personally I dont think they are acting anything like EA. I dont see massive lay offs to make them look better to share holders. I dont see them buying out companies and running them into the ground. I dont see them pulling their games from digital distribution platforms and forcing gamers to use their brand of spyware to play them. I dont see them whining like a petulant child that no one uses their services.

So no I dont think theyre acting anything like EA

Accountfailed:
Ok, before I throw myself into this, I need to clarify something.
Please note that I am talking about Bethesda the publisher, not BGS(bethesda game studios) the developers.

Right, moving on...

So EA is a company known for their ugly business practices and general stupidity. Just recently they publicly announced that Zynga's recent stock troubles was due to not being able to "diversify" their product lineup -which followed the announcement of their eighth Sims 3 expansion.

In the recent days Bethesda appears to be taking some vile pages from EA's 'Big book of appropriate business practices', like the most recent PC release of Dawnguard - for 20 euro(that's 2/3 the price I paid for the full game on launch day). And the lawsuit against Mojang over a single word, which they lost.

I fear that the recent actions made by Bethesda might in fact be influenced EA's general behavior over the years, and if I'm right that means that the piss poor practice of EA is causing some form of cross company peer pressure.

Any thoughts? (examples and counter-examples would be welcomed.)

Off-topic: The captcha for this post was "banana bread", delicious!

image

........Seriously?

EA is like the Galactic Empire of the gaming industry, and that's putting it nicely, Bethesda are no where near EA in terms of greed/stupidity/ignorance.

Bethesda may of done a couple of stupid things, but pretty much every company on earth has done that. EA on the other hand does at least 3 stupid things every few weeks, and continue to do so.

They both make games I like :)

As for Dawnguard, my version of Skyrim seems to work fine even though I haven't bought it so I don't feel betrayed or forced into buying the dlc.

Pretty sure every company is doing shotty business practices like EA. EA just does it the most. Just wish more people would do something about it.

I suspect that the Euro was a much stronger currency in November 2011. Dawnguard is 14 (€18) in the UK, which is 40% price of Skyrim at launch.

Depends on how big and awesome dawnguard is, it might be worth the 20 dollars, and we know it isn't made up of important elements cut from the game a la me3

Draech:

Ryotknife:
Yea dawngaurd is overpriced, but still a better deal than any DLC that comes from EA (15 dollars a few hour DLC in mass effect). Not to mention, their DLC will go down in price unlike EA.

EDIT: derped and put COD DLC instead

Here is a wild suggestion.

If you dont think the DLC is worth the money... dont buy it?

I mean are they evil for offering it?

I have a brain in my skull. I can go "Yay" or "Nay" to it. Do you not have that privilege?

I am not buying it. EA is evil if they offer something that is worth significantly less for more money AND give no alternatives. If they want to cash in on the idiots with more money than brains, that is fine.

Even with Dawnguard at 20 dollars, it WILL go on sale just like other bethesda expansions. So even if the price irkes you, there are alternatives other than never buying it. I will probably never buy EA or activision DLC because most of the time they are a blatant ripoff meant to squeeze every ounce of money from their loyal fans with absolutely no regard to their image.

course, by your logic a company can never do anything evil. If a company released a game for full price with over half of its content locked that you have to shell out 60 dollars more....well by golly you can just say nay!

also, i could have easily reported you for implying that i do not have a brain. I wont because it would serve no real purpose. But there are other posters on these forums who would start a crusade against you for such demeaning behavior.

Bethesda has a publishing company? I was certain that Zenimax was their parent corp. No, Bethesda is just like Bioware. A company who has made pretty amazing games and might be corrupted by the gamble of making their most beloved franchise into a MMO.

That said, EA is no worse than any other big corporation. I'll still buy Bioware's games, regardless of who owns them.

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