So, how about that wacky Sarkeesian lady? Pages PREV 1 . . . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 . . . 24 NEXT | |
She is anti-feminist on so many levels. First of all feminism was about supplying the choice to live outside social norms for both genders(yes despite the hypocritical name). They weren't against the idea of being a housewife, they were against that being their only option. The core idea of it was gender should only determine who you are physically, not your career, not your social status, not who you love. In this sense a character who's gender is switchable isn't sexist, but actually a very core idea of feminism. Anita is sexist on this level because she defines what a woman can and can't be. Case in point in her master thesis she points to a chart on what media defines as positive woman and rather then questions the need for the chart she makes her own on what should define a woman in media. Second ties into the first, she defines objectification as any form as sexuality. It seems most people on this forum aren't clear what sexuality really refers to. What it refers to is any form of contact or personality traits that relate to character's used in relationships or affection...perhaps that wasn't a very clear definition but sexuality is anything from two characters holding hands, to making love, to how they act around the gender(s) the character is attracted to. Just because a woman acts like a 20$ stripper does not mean she is being objectified. Objectified means to be a tool, have a singular purpose and only that as well as comes with the assumption of expendable. If you were using that basically any game where you can choose between people without consequence is a game the objectifies people. She is sexist here because she disregards any form sexuality between any characters as a form of male power fantasy/objectification. This is inherently a sexist ideal because you have defined a character by a gender and how a character should act based on that gender. If you break down most of the arguments that support this woman at this point they all come down to "I don't like the way X looks/acts/etc. and therefore is sexist" In a subjective setting: art. She has really just justified the term Feminazi while at the same time proving we aren't ready for a serious debate on the matter. | |
Except that the quote you have selected doesn't say "change" it says "reinforce and amplify". She isn't saying that someone who isn't sexist will become sexist by playing these games but rather that someone who already has sexist ideas will usually (not always as she said tend) find their ideas confirmed by them, leading to the possibility that those ideas will be amplified. What she is saying and what you think she is saying don't seem to actually match. | |
This. A million times this. This "Academic" only really has any form of noteriety and support because she spammed 4Chan with ads for her kickstarter and pissed off a lot of people. | |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExCdOImmVA | |
Ugh.... not more of this woman. Ignore her, and she will go away. Such is the way of the internet. | |
That just shows that spamming happened, not who is responsible. Provide IP addresses, or stop making BS claims. | |
That depends on precisely what flavor of feminism you are talking about. You effectively can't say any view presented by someone claiming to speak from a feminist viewpoint isn't feminist for precisely the same reason you can argue that you don't have to defend any feminist position because you may not hold them while still being feminist -- that whole feminism is not a monolith argument.
Or, if you use Anita's version of feminism, it's a "Man With Boobs."
She would probably argue that because it is a character in a video game it necessarily has no agency and accordingly it is always objectification, except maybe in some tiny narrowly defined range.
By that definition, society objectifies men a lot. More than women, even. Including a tendency to describe non-criminal men by a non-gendered job title alone. "Men" don't die, merely "miners", "workers", etc. In fact there's a whole concept referred to as the "Disposable Male" that describes precisely this. | |
Can't we all just admit she's crazy/lazy and ignore her now? | |
Alright, take a look at this image:
download it, drag and drop it into google image search, you will not find this image outside of 4chan thread archives. That means, either her, or someone from her camp spammed 4chan with threads for her KS. Since we now have proof that she does in fact browse 4chan courtesy of her own twitter: I'm more inclined to believe that it was her. | |
I find it more hilarious that she actually takes 4chan seriously as representative of all "gaming communities" despite the fact that it promotes being anon more than anything else to let people bullshit when they want to bullshit. I mean nevermind any actual video game clans, non-profit groups, guilds and so on that actually put their reputation on the line everyday. | |
Yeah, ignoring my views about her, she comes off as someone who has no idea how the "Internet" hierarchy works. Not so much in the media and games, but with things like 4chan. EDIT: for some odd reason it sent early | |
Well she is the kind of person who made a youtube video complaining about bittorrent sites and how all the advertisements are pornography related yet didn't understand things like adblock or how bittorrenting is still mostly used for pirating movies and the like. So it would be accurate to say that she really doesn't understand the "internet". | |
Not even in the slightest. The term Feminazi was made up by Rush Limbaugh to demonize ALL feminist thought. I am sure you wouldn't consider Rush Limbaugh an authority on Feminism. We are not ready for a serious debate because nerd culture is still full of entitled weirdos who have terrible ideas about women in the first place. | |
I pledged to the Kickstarter. And it's certain to say I'm a little disappointed by what little I know about things are going. Of course that might largely be my ignorance and impatience showing. I can just hope for the best at this point. She's got a lot of money and a lot of pressure on her hands. Also, I don't know much about the progress because I haven't kept up with this much. Though I do hope it is not as bad as many are asserting it is. Edit: This whole thread is giving me a headache and I don't feel that I understand this issue any better than before. | |
Wait... Thief 2? THIEF 2? That's the most desperate amalgamation for this trope I've ever heard. It's a single circumstance. *Sigh.* Someone just kill me. | |
if you give me 160k i can do crappy videos about feminist stuff in video games | |
160K is a bit beyond my budget. How does 100 Ukrainian hryvnia, a broken calculator and half a bottle of lemonade sound? | |
Make the calculator working or i walk | |
Don't get greedy, I'm sure i can find other talentless people who will spout platitudes about gender rolls into a camera. I hear some chick called Sarkeesian might me available after her backers are done beating down her door for their money/ tarring and feathering her. Gender rolls are delicious :P | |
But...But i need that calculator to do calculations how how i feel about those evil men and there oppression of women. Without that calculator i will have no credibility on those calculations I....NEED....THAT.....CALCULATOR! also if you dont give it to me it is sexist because *mumble mumble* sexist | |
I'll let my friend Arnie answer that: We cannot have a "serious" debate about nerd culture because the people on the side of "RAWR NERDS HATE EVERYONE WHO ISN'T A WASP!!!" really have little to no clue about a disappointingly large number of the issues they speak about within the culture. | |
What I find hilarious is that people actually have these discussions everyday. The only people who cry out for moral outrage only use the unidentified masses being as unspecific or as generalized as possible to scream out their own personal outrage that honestly doesn't really affect everyone. A serious debate or conversation doesn't require some intervention but simply the everyday challenges that each person experiences and how they decide to handle each situation. There is no way to truly come down from the mountain like Moses and decree some commandments on how people who play video games as a hobby should act. At the end of the day it is just an activity, a small activity that people decide to do to fill some time out of their busy days where more often than not the more serious challenges of life affect the way they go through life and what they decide to do about it. Most of the time it will always come down to the person if they really understand what community means and what they do to build one themselves. People often like to generalize and just accuse and demean other people by being as general as possible and say "it's the communities fault". Well here is the hard truth, the real community is something you build yourself. Even with online gaming if you aren't taking steps to get a group of friends, join a chat room or create your own and put yourself out there and make friends with other people then you aren't building a community and don't deserve to complain about PUGs where the least amount of care is always given. That's why joining guilds, clans, and groups that are active will always be more important than going on 4chan and decrying that gaming communities are ruining the world. I can tell ya, games I play online. I journey and meet people who know their shit and actually like the game they play for better or worse. I make friends with them and be active in playing matches with them and dedicate some time to them talking and socializing. I'm making the most out of my time and getting to know people that I decide are alright. If I don't like their tone or their attitude then I can just as easily drop them and start anew. Making positive change doesn't require some study or some large peer pressure crap that Extra Creditz is promoting but small personal everyday change because at the end of the day it just might be fun to troll and be a jerk at the end of a stressful day because you aren't on the clock and just living your private life how you want to. | |
You are reading more into my statement than I meant. I should have been incredibly specific. Also it seems I may have overstated something. But you got the gist of it, it seems rather true that the opinions and interest of White, Male, and middle class seems somewhat over-represented on the internet as a whole. Wikipedia being a good example of this in terms of articles and content. Not that there is an overt hatred expressed by them, but there is in some cases aversion to those who do not have the same interests as they would. What I mean is, in general not many men actually understand the issues women face. Its not through malice, but ignorance. They accept it as normal because they do not think about it or do not necessarily realize it. When I said Nerd Culture, I should have said Inclusive Internet Culture and Hobbyist Culture. Its not always true, some Inclusive Internet Cultures are incredibly self correcting and hold themselves to a very high standard, whereas others seem to do the opposite or even take pride in utter terribleness. But quite honestly, a lot of these geek and nerd, and hobbyist cultures are dominated by males and male perspectives. Especially in the case of: White Male, Middle Class. This is where the whole entitled thing comes in. Just because you are a majority on the internet, or that many would agree with your opinion does not mean you are necessarily correct. And, from what I have seen, people are freaking out over Anita for no good reason at all. And the comparisons to someone like Jack Thompson makes it ever more baffling. People are treating her like she is some great oppressive force, but she is not. People are treating her like she is some kinda evil straw-feminist harpy, but she is not. People criticize her criticisms in a fashion that does not even address her criticism so much as pedantically claim that she is wrong because such and such said such. And, this all happened because....? Because 2. It exponentially rose in notoriety because people attacked on on the basis that she is female and a feminist. EVEN IF it was just trolling and bad timing, people fail to realize that stuff like that actually DOES happen in the big picture. The big disconnect here being is that women on the internet are attacked for... being women on the internet, or just antagonized, or hit upon in very creepy ways. Or even just the lack of acknowledgment of women's issues. There is a noticeable trend of this in nerd cultures given that they are mostly dominated by males. Its very hard to communicate what I mean though. Probably my own fault. Perhaps I assume too much of others to understand this perspective. I've watched the bulk of Anita's videos and quite frankly not one of them 'bothered' me at all. In fact I found most of them to be incredibly insightful in certain aspects, especially in terms of how some characters are presented and the sheer lack of certain characters in many movies. And giving the benefit of the doubt, she is doing this all in an academically honest fashion without even asking for advertisement revenue. I do not understand why people are so keen on demonizing her when she has not even done anything to be worthy of such treatment. Seriously, its getting really creepy to see how many people just outright dismiss her. ADDENDUM THINGY: I have a knack for provoking people to say the darnedest things. Again, its my fault really. I don't mean to generalize but sometimes I am just so tired of having to explain things in great detail that I state things as if people could infer what I meant. This post being what I meant. It sucks because I feel I have a knack for giving the wrong impression. | |
The straw feminist was actually created by feminist extremists not anti feminists. Those feminists that cheered when that dudes penis got cut off. they were made of skin and bones not straw...yep.. | |
Or maybe she wanted to annoy 4chan to be harassed so the internet white knights would come to her rescue... You know, exactly what happened | |
Aaaannnnd now I am going to ask what the heck are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything? And no, the straw feminist was mostly created from ignorance and employed by anti-feminists. | |
The term white knight is getting on my nerves. What the heck does it even mean? People who treat women like people? People who show preferential treatment to women over men in case of conflict? Its annoying because people seem to be using it without much context. As if to imply that anyone who comes to the defense of a single woman on the internet is a white knight. Heck if it was man saying and doing the things Anita is I would still defend him. I don't get it. The term itself is loaded too, its origins dubious at best given the many sexist connotations it employs. (at least according to the Urban Dictionary) | |
Oh, there is never a conversation. For a conversation we need two parties, neither of which are relying solely on subjective conjecture, logical fallacies & rudimentary shaming language. Women are self entitled, with a worse case of gendered privilege then men ever sported. An the main stream male audience cannot go two seconds without immediately feeling the need to protect all women everywhere against everything. Either one of those can render any civil discourse moot, but both of them together just ruins even non civil discourse.
Dude, no one is ignorant of the feminist these days & haven't been for decades. Feminism is essentially defined as "taking mine, while keeping yours." Feminism has not been about equality ever: Originally it started out as a way for women to gather social privilege because they were under represented. No its still about gathering social privilege, even though women are now over-represented in essentially everything. An now whenever this is pointed out that same in group makes silly statements that are mostly predicated on hetrosexual white male shame, or generalised beta shaming... Its also why escapist is so full of white knights: Because no one white knights like a beta male. An what he is talking about is the obvious double standard in the western world where a male tv star can say something off camera that is slightly sexist & get fired, an yet you can get a gaggle of female tv stars on camera laughing about a guy being drugged, having his penis cut off & shoved down a trash disposal & its a-okay, prime time, day time television. Double standard.
A White Knight is a male (usually a beta male) who rushes to the rescue of someone who self identifies as a woman on the internet. White Knights will do this disproportionately to the level of trouble the woman may or may not be in. If a woman complained about stubbing her toe on her bed frame this morning, by lunch time white knights will have sent 2,000 condolences messages, blamed men for inventing bed frames as part of there evil cabal of patriarchy, made a kickstarter to create a documaentary about how brave this woman is to tell us her tragic story of toe pain & set up a petition to the United nations demanding bed frames now have anti-woman toe stubbing features. A guy stubs his toe & he gets 1 message "god your a dumb ass, pay more attention." This is what, white knighting is, in a nut shell.
Never use Urban dictionary as an actual dictionary... Its not one. Oh just as an FYI, the term white knight comes from the white knight who protected Alice from the Red Knight in "Through the Looking Glass." He escorts her through the 8 squares to safety & then spends ages impressing her with his collection of ludicrious inventions. | |
No,this isn't Duke Nukem Forever; something that took so long that it couldn't possibly live up to expectations. This is a project, that by it's controversial nature, garnered a ton of attention and cash and resulted in the non-productive head-swelling of of one lady with a strong opinion. If she had actually had something to produce, besides controversy, and gotten on top of producing it then bravo. But now, she deserves scorn, not for speaking out as a woman against the sexist nature of video game story concepts, but just for being unproductive, even more so while trying to stand up as some great defender of her gender. | |
Except that she's taken this route, rather then show what its sexist (which it isn't), because to do that she would have to actually say something of merit & things of merit are open for civil discussion... Where as if you just shame beta males in to supplication & compliance, while blocking everyone else, you can pretend you've said something of merit. Captcha: Filthy dirty mess. Even the Captcha can see it. | |
I am just going to pretend this is an elaborate attempt at satire and leave it at that. | |
I note that you haven't actually asked a question, or attempted to disagree with any particular point. What you've done is fallen into this aspurgan trap, where you are attempting to be right, without ever having to put forward your own statement: What you've done is not civilised discourse, its just making noise. | |
I assumed he was talking about the Lorena Bobbitt attack, since what was going on outside the courthouse should have been more than a little shameful (speaking of her, I'm shocked she got remarried -- you'd think "I cut off my previous husband's penis" would scare guys off a bit more). But apparently he's talking about the View and Osbourne's laughing about what Catherine Kieu Becker did to her husband -- Kieu's trial starts two weeks hence on 9/24/12, BTW. Who wants to bet she gets a comparative slap on the wrist to what a man would be sentenced for drugging his wife, cutting parts off, and running them through the garbage disposal? | |
Lorena Bobbit was paraded like a hero for cutting off her husbands penis for wanting a divorce. She cried "rape" as the reason she did it and despite the fact this was proven false, she was still hailed as a hero by women on daytime television. No doubt Becker will see the same type of praise. If a man on the other hand had been beaten nearly to death with furniture and appliances and sexually assaulted, then later that night mutilated his wife's vagina with a knife, he would be called a psychopath. The phrase "It's terrible she did that, but that's no excuse" would be the banner that was waved. But "it's a mans world". | |
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I'm not even sure what to think. I supported her- sadly didn't donate money to her but had faith she could make a difference. Seeing this does make me question her tactics, if not motives. Hopefully she's going to make up, otherwise this will put a huge dent in video gaming and just get people angry and feel betrayed.
When I say huge dent in video gaming, I mean it's just going to make people not trust those who are willing to shed some light and whom can make differences in video games even if they're not working for any developers. Perhaps she can make up as stated, but... not sure right now.