SW:TOR F2P releasing soon, and will likely fail.

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thatonedude11:
Wait, what? No sprint and limited chat access? Okay, that's bull-shit. Bioware might be smart if they changed that.

As for the no bank space, I haven't played TOR, but I remember when I was playing World of Warcraft, I hardly ever used my bank, especially when I was doing solo content. I just kind of assumed it is similar in TOR. I may be wrong.

It could very well be, as I said I've never played and now have no intention to. But I'd need a lot of spaces before bank space would become irrelevant, because I keep whatever might be important to me later. In GW2, my main is loaded down with 60 slots, and I still have WAY more items than I could possibly hope to have space for. Had to invest some of my gold into an extra bank slot and I'm STILL running short on space. Not to mention the very idea of not being allowed to get access to extra storage AT ALL without paying is vexing....I haven't played an MMO yet where that has been the case, though I admit I've only played a dozen or so.

ThriKreen:
Excuse me? I don't see how it's that bad. It's like a 30% boost over run, and only available out of combat.

I have to be honest, I can't imagine playing a F2P game where I'm actually being penalized for not paying them money for the ability to run faster than normal. That's a basic function ingrained so deeply into so many games that it's almost absurd to even imagine putting it behind a pay wall. Especially since, from what I understand, the game lacks fast-travel and there is a lot of walking between areas.

I've seen games which offered pay-to-own items that gave speed boosts, mind, and I don't have a problem with that....but designing the game to naturally have sprint, and then taking it from the player unless they level to a certain mark or else pay you? That's a dick move, no matter how it's spun.

Captcha: "learn from mistakes" Oh look, the captcha is trying to be optimistic about EA. But I'm not.

CriticKitten:
I've seen games which offered pay-to-own items that gave speed boosts, mind, and I don't have a problem with that....but designing the game to naturally have sprint, and then taking it from the player unless they level to a certain mark or else pay you? That's a dick move, no matter how it's spun.

Is anyone actually understanding what I've wrote? I'm still failing to see what the complaint here is. How is it a dick move when YOU CAN STILL GET THE ABILITY? It's not locked forever unless you pay. You can reach L15 in a day of playing.

It is not a critical ability, quests are laid out to be pretty localized (all the L6-10 ones are in this general area, assuming you've grabbed them all). And again, after the first 2 worlds, you should be L15+ and now have it, so it's a moot issue. Fast travel from a taxi spot is still available, while calling for a taxi out on the field has a slightly longer cooldown for free players. It is superseded later by speeders which offer a 90% speed boost when you hit L25, which is not limited by either pay tier.

Apparently it seems that unlike many posting in this thread complaining about the ability, I've actually played it before the shift from L15 to L1, and it wasn't that big of a game changer. They're just reverting the change for the F2P players. You still have walk, you still have run, but it seems people are thinking you just have to walk and no run, which is not the case.

ThriKreen:
Apparently it seems that unlike many posting in this thread complaining about the ability, I've actually played it before the shift from L15 to L1, and it wasn't that big of a game changer. They're just reverting the change for the F2P players. You still have walk, you still have run, but it seems people are thinking you just have to walk and no run, which is not the case.

I played the game from beta through release. I actually stopped playing BEFORE the switch from L15 to L1.

ThriKreen:
Is anyone actually understanding what I've wrote?

I find this question hilarious, considering you didn't read what you quoted. I'll quote it again and maybe you'll see it this time. I'll even add bold for emphasis.

I've seen games which offered pay-to-own items that gave speed boosts, mind, and I don't have a problem with that....but designing the game to naturally have sprint, and then taking it from the player unless they level to a certain mark or else pay you? That's a dick move, no matter how it's spun.

*golfclap* Mocking me for not reading what you said, and yet the one clearly not reading here is you.

It is not a critical ability, quests are laid out to be pretty localized (all the L6-10 ones are in this general area, assuming you've grabbed them all). And again, after the first 2 worlds, you should be L15+ and now have it, so it's a moot issue. Fast travel from a taxi spot is still available, while calling for a taxi out on the field has a slightly longer cooldown for free players. It is superseded later by speeders which offer a 90% speed boost when you hit L25, which is not limited by either pay tier.

The ability to move faster than simply walking is a core ability built into virtually every MMO, heck, into almost every game on the market today. I don't particularly care about how fast you're going later on, or that you obtain the ability to run at a certain level....you are still forced to walk for 15 levels, or else pay for the privilege of running.

Imagine if other games did the same thing, locked such mundane functionality behind pay walls.

"Want to drive that Scorpion tank, Mr Halo player? Too bad! You need at least 15 kills to operate a tank, but we'll let you drive it right now if you pay us."

"Sorry, CoD player, but that gun lying on the ground right in front of you can only be used if you kill 15 players in multiplayer first. But since we like you, we'll let you buy it from us for free."

"What's that, WoW player? You want to go questing? I'm terribly sorry but we've restricted your account to only let you complete quests three times per day, and you've used them all up. Tough luck, champ! But maybe if you're willing to open that wallet of yours a little wider...."

How well that would go over, hm? And keep in mind that people wouldn't complain about the height of the bar, regardless of how easily accessible it is....it's the fact that the bar even EXISTS that's unacceptable. Locking a basic game function behind a pay wall is extremely poor form and absolutely classifies as a "dick move".

I figure the f2p would have some restrictions and some would suck, But that really is crippling. The moment anyone sees this list they would be really turned off to play.

why not make it a war themed hat simulator in a starwars universe? It is working well for TF2. Idiots like me pay for the hats and crates so why not just copy Valve?

CriticKitten:
The ability to move faster than simply walking is a core ability built into virtually every MMO, heck, into almost every game on the market today. I don't particularly care about how fast you're going later on, or that you obtain the ability to run at a certain level....you are still forced to walk for 15 levels, or else pay for the privilege of running.

Sigh. I think the problem here is that people are mistaking sprint for run.

No, You are not forced to walk for 15 levels - you can still run. Sprint is just a minor boost over run which you still gain eventually regardless of pay tier you are at.

Here is a breakdown of the various speed levels and the level you get it at:
- Walk (L1)
- Run (L1)
- Sprint (30% boost over run, out of combat, gain at L1 for subs+preferred, L15 for F2P players)
- Speeder L1 (90% speed boost over run, out of combat, L25)
- Speeder L2 (100% speed boost over run, out of combat, L40)
- Speeder L3 (110% speed boost over run, out of combat, L50)

And, once you buy *anything*, or are a prior subscriber, you get bumped to Preferred Status which gains:
- The ability to run faster (Sprint) starting at Level 1.
- Cargo Hold access (Bank Slots) and higher login queue priority.
- Increased access to Chat and Secure Trading.

thatonedude11:
As for the no bank space, I haven't played TOR, but I remember when I was playing World of Warcraft, I hardly ever used my bank, especially when I was doing solo content. I just kind of assumed it is similar in TOR. I may be wrong.

It's been a while, but my recollection is that even for subscribing players the default inventory size was tiny. Not Resident Evil tiny, but shockingly close for an MMO.

EDIT: It seems I'm mistaken, and the starting inventory was actually 40 slots, though I remember it feeling much lower than that.

alphamalet:
If it fails I won't be happy if people lose their jobs.

I will be happy to see Bioware and EA get a well-deserved kick in the ass.

Honestly, part of the game's current problems stem from the fact that people already lost their jobs. Bioware canned a lot of the initial production staff shortly after launch. Which lead to them having to bring in new people who don't know the system, leading to patches which actually created more bugs than they fix. (Yeah, I know the tense in that sentence is shot to shit... and I'm actually fatigued beyond caring. Sorry.)

sanquin:
The conditions aren't crippling at all. The endgame is very meh in swtor. The main story line is where it's at. And that is all free. So play the game through the story, then drop it again is what I plan to do.

The thing is, that defeats the point of an MMO really. They aren't designed to play through once like a normal campaign, then go onto something else.

While it may be a smart thing for the customer to do, it says a lot about the game if that's what people would prefer to be doing, rather than sinking hundreds of hours into it.

Legion:

sanquin:
The conditions aren't crippling at all. The endgame is very meh in swtor. The main story line is where it's at. And that is all free. So play the game through the story, then drop it again is what I plan to do.

The thing is, that defeats the point of an MMO really. They aren't designed to play through once like a normal campaign, then go onto something else.

While it may be a smart thing for the customer to do, it says a lot about the game if that's what people would prefer to be doing, rather than sinking hundreds of hours into it.

Honestly, it'd be more accurate to say it defeats the point of a subscription MMO.

MMOs end up in this weird territory where, if you're subscribing to a game, you're actually being punished for taking your time with the content, and it encourages this "rush through the entire game as quickly as possible to get to endgame" mentality. If you don't you'll have to pay more for the ability to finish it, if you do, you end up with a situation where the endgame just isn't up to snuff and you've got nothing to do.

Even without actually liking Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2, I do think they've got the right idea on solving that problem. You buy in with the box and you're done.

StBishop:
I have a solution:
F2P to level 15.

Done.

I don't know why this isn't default for all games a year after release.

For the record, this is and has been in there since shortly after launch.

The F2P restrictions prevent anyone from actually playing the game at a reasonable level, but they don't prevent people like me from treating it like KotOR 3 and just playing it as a single player game. I'm not spending a fucking cent on it, but I'll get my 20-30 hours of entertainment and move on.

And at least they're not taking the Turbine model of locking any and all content past the "2nd zone" (not literally true, but the concept applies to both DDO and LotRO) until you pay. The saving grace that makes their model better is that you CAN grind Turbine Points in game, it's just very difficult and tedious, which incentivizes buying points to save time. That said, I will never get to endgame DDO because I bought the wrong packs with the TP I unlocked and am just stuck without the ability grind apart from starting toons on multiple servers to grind with. Same with LotRO.

thatonedude11:
The thing is, The Old Republic was not designed as a free-to-play game, so they have to adapt. Of course it's not going to be ideal. There have to be restrictions on free players, otherwise no one would pay and EA doesn't get any money

I think it's more that EA has no idea at all how to operate a F2P game, rather than a fundamental design issue.

Rather than blocking off access to components and applying arbitrary restrictions they should have incentivised paying players. Faster/instant leveling, weapon/ability modifiers or even the ability to jump to specific areas, raids, dungeons and so forth for a selection of set fees.

For example, Dungeon X requires level 50 player and above, but you are level 28. Pay $5 and you warp to said Dungeon, are levelled up to 50 on a temporary basis and can raid at will. Once you leave said dungeon you get to keep the loot, 50%xp (since you're in a Dungeon way above normal level) but revert back to your stats being as they were before.

That would allow dedicated or short staying players to instantly access the content they want. It would also avoid the Pay to Win model, as it doesn't matter in PvE so much.

The trouble is EA doesn't think like that, when players weren't spending enough in BF Heroes for example, rather than provide new or interesting premium content, they simply nerfed free content (and raised xp thresholds) so much the game became all but unplayable.

It's a short sighted move that works around punishing players rather than providing convenience. I'm sure there are those who will apologise for EA and talk about player entitlement, but the fact is that the competition already offers free access to what EA are trying to bludgeon out of people.

Legion:
The thing is, that defeats the point of an MMO really. They aren't designed to play through once like a normal campaign, then go onto something else.

While it may be a smart thing for the customer to do, it says a lot about the game if that's what people would prefer to be doing, rather than sinking hundreds of hours into it.

Indeed it's a very bad thing that that is the only really good part of the game. But that doesn't mean that it can't give people an opportunity to play a nice single player campaign even if it's in an MMO.

ThriKreen:
-snip-

I'm not sure why this is confusing for you, that you have to keep breaking it down even further to pick at the details. There's only two details that are important here.

1) Sprint is simply the ability to move faster than normal.
2) You can only get it by either paying for the functionality, or reaching Lvl 15.

How much you have to pay, the manner in which you pay, the level spread of speed boosts, etc....these are all irrelevant and minor details. You're digging much too deeply into this to try to rationalize it, when the only things that matter are those two facts above and nothing else. This doesn't need to be taken down to a microscopic level of analysis to realize how dumb this idea is.

In fact, when you break it down it only looks MORE idiotic. If Sprint is so quickly outclassed by other options, then why bother locking it behind a pay wall at all? I understand that you and I don't agree on the core tenets of this, but I have a serious problem with what you're saying. Namely, you're content to explain why it's a big deal, but not to explain why they should even bother doing it. And that's an important question that needs to be asked.

So let's hear it: what possible reason could they have for installing this policy if, as you say, it's so meaningless? Why waste valuable programming time coding an idiotic locking mechanism into the game for a function that is later surpassed? Why lock off functionality if you have no good reason to do so?

And the only concrete answer to that question is this: to coax a few dollars out of players who will quickly become frustrated at not being able to go as fast as those around them. It's typical of EA, and it's a dick move. Period.

oh yeah ... this is happening still ...

the OP forgot that they're restricting the already laughably limited character creator. which is kind of a big deal to me, the options where pathetic before, joy for them getting worse.

anyway, i'd rather play WoW free to lvl 20 then ToR to 50, and i hate WoW

Lunar Templar:

the OP forgot that they're restricting the already laughably limited character creator.

My list was not complete, I just hit the major restrictions off the top of my head.

EA has no idea how to run an MMO. In an MMO treating your player base like shit isn't a viable way to do business. They can all just up and unsubscribe.

Evil Smurf:
why not make it a war themed hat simulator in a starwars universe? It is working well for TF2. Idiots like me pay for the hats and crates so why not just copy Valve?

I agree, the hat system is clearly the superior F2P model. I don't hear Valve complaining. Limiting gameplay would just make F2P players quit, and then the subscribers would feel lonely and quit too.

Doom972:
and then the subscribers would feel lonely and quit too.

That's the most important points, I think. Encouraging more people to play is good for subscribers. They benefit from shorter queue times and less barren planets more than anyone.

Pandabearparade:

Lunar Templar:

the OP forgot that they're restricting the already laughably limited character creator.

My list was not complete, I just hit the major restrictions off the top of my head.

EA has no idea how to run an MMO. In an MMO treating your player base like shit isn't a viable way to do business. They can all just up and unsubscribe.

that was evident when they decided 'WoW in space with an emphasis on a boring story' was i good idea.

you can't beat WoW by copying WoW

ofc you could also do 1 minute of research and look at this nice quote

"Once our Free-to-Play option launches, Free-to-Play Players will gain Preferred Player Status by making a single purchase through our website. This purchase can simply be a quantity of Cartel Coins, or a Game Time Card, or even a month of a Subscription. Additionally, former Subscribers who are returning as Free-to-Play Players, will find they have Preferred Status!

As a Preferred Status Player, you will gain the following benefits compared to Free-to-Play Players:
The Sprint ability at Level 1
Access to your Cargo Hold (an 80 item Player Bank)
Access to Secure Trade (starting at level 10)
The ability to send Mail, including one (1) attachment
Increased allowance for chat message frequencies in Public chat channels (such as /general)
An increased Credits Cap
Access to the Who List
Three (3) additional Sale Slots on the Galactic Trade Network (for a total of 5)
One (1) additional active Crew Skill Slot (for a total of 2)
Reduced skill point respecialization costs
Increased Server queue priority

In addition to the above benefits, Subscribers who return as Preferred Status Players will find that they retain any Cargo Hold and Inventory expansions they had unlocked, any Legacy Unlock or Perk they have gained (including Species) and can continue to use any Artifact equipment that was bound to them previously."

which is basically amazing, just buy 1 thing, ANYTHING and you got most of the actual restrictions removed. I haven't played in months, but with this I can just go back and play the stories I can still play, for free.

the main reason they are restricting the bare bones free to play as much is to stop goldfarmers and trolls (money restrictions, chat restrictions etc etc)

My $0.02: I left because Warzones were dead and because it was flat out impossible to do any Flashpoints other than Talon/Esseles because there simply weren't enough players. The new F2P model changes nothing - you need a decent pool of players doing warzones and flashpoints for them to be viable.

No, You are not forced to walk for 15 levels - you can still run. Sprint is just a minor boost over run which you still gain eventually regardless of pay tier you are at.

Someone made the decision to deliberately inconvenience players for the 1st 15 levels. I can see why they might do that (people are most likely to replay the 1st planet for different classes, and since people are playing by the hour slowing them down will squeeze a bit more money out of them) but it's still a singularly petty move.

If it doesn't work they'll change it again in a few months, no big deal.

Well, no. SWTOR is running out of time because you need a certain minimum population for an MMORPG; the longer it takes them to fix things and stop people leaving, the harder it will be to reverse the decline.

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