Xcom sequel?

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Now that people who were unaware of XCOM before know what to expect, I'd like to Firaxis develop the sequel in a less "safe" way. The combat has some bugs, but in my opinion it's solid. It's fun and challenging, and the bullshit isn't so severe that it ruins the game for me.

What I'd like to see is more focus on the simulation aspects. I loved how in the original you could zoom into the geoscape so much that you could actually see individual countries. So, a UFO might crash land somewhere in Pakistan, or escape you over the border of the Congo.

Also, I'd like to see a top down base THAT CAN BE INVADED. Maybe even have some specific gameplay for it, like losing funds or having to spend some time repairing a room that gets wrecked.

BloatedGuppy:

Tayh:
Also, no cheating double-turn AI.

Argh. The AI does not take a double-turn. The insta-scatter into cover upon reveal actually works in your favor. What you're asking for is a less neutered AI that would probably be manifestly more frustrating to play against.

OT: We haven't even got the first DLC for this one, I expect a sequel will be at least a year or two in the making, if we get one. This one badly needs a map pack, though.

YES IT DOES. In the AI's turn, it can move into your LOS, when you see it, it sees you, and the AI can move again.
I've had to reload several times because I was moving the last person, who then sees a muton, and the mutons immediately run to a position that lets them flank me, then it's the aliens turn, now that is bullshit, there is no possible way to sneak up on them, and it definitely does NOT work in your favour.

If they do make a sequel, I'd like them to expand it more, let us get off of earth and build bases elsewhere.

EDIT: After seeing your other points I have a few more issues with the game, I've been shot and have shot through walls (SOLID COVER) because the game decided that cover wasn't there, I've also had 3 mutons spawn in the middle of my troops during the enemy turn, which meant I saw them, so they took cover, then shot me. THAT's bullshit.
And I would take a bunch of aliens patrolling the area, because then you could use tactics, and set up ambushes, which you can't do in this game because it's entirely luck based, if the computer fucks up and gets seen, it should be punished for it, not helped.

You also seem to have forgotten about the missions where they enemies DO patrol around and some are on overwatch almost the entire time, I've had scenarios where I run to a new area, and an alien I hadn't seen yet was on overwatch shoots and kills my soldier, but because I saw him he can now duck into cover.

The game is also fairly buggy, one mission I ran into a muton who was sometimes immune to rockets, everything around him died, the walls he was hiding behind were destroyed, but he was fine.

Misho-:

Tayh:

BloatedGuppy:
Argh. The AI does not take a double-turn. The insta-scatter into cover upon reveal actually works in your favor. What you're asking for is a less neutered AI that would probably be manifestly more frustrating to play against.

Yeh, it really turns into your favor when the aliens get a free turn to move into cover every time they're discovered.

Here's the thing, they waste their turn when they are discovered. They might double move, but, they never go to cover and shoot you in the same round (the same unit anyhow). But it can be frustrating, such as when a Cryssalid goes from a dark area to a "visible area" and the move again right to the civilian you were trying to save!!! Or Civilians(s)s!

They don't waste their turn though, this can count as them sprinting twice, yes the second time they can't do anything, but in their first action they can certainly attack you, the absolute worst for this are the cryssalids and beserkers, as if those don't move enough already.

Warachia:
YES IT DOES. In the AI's turn, it can move into your LOS, when you see it, it sees you, and the AI can move again.

I've had to reload several times because I was moving the last person, who then sees a muton, and the mutons immediately run to a position that lets them flank me, then it's the aliens turn, now that is bullshit, there is no possible way to sneak up on them, and it definitely does NOT work in your favour.

If they do make a sequel, I'd like them to expand it more, let us get off of earth and build bases elsewhere.

EDIT: After seeing your other points I have a few more issues with the game, I've been shot and have shot through walls (SOLID COVER) because the game decided that cover wasn't there, I've also had 3 mutons spawn in the middle of my troops during the enemy turn, which meant I saw them, so they took cover, then shot me. THAT's bullshit.

And I would take a bunch of aliens patrolling the area, because then you could use tactics, and set up ambushes, which you can't do in this game because it's entirely luck based, if the computer fucks up and gets seen, it should be punished for it, not helped.

You also seem to have forgotten about the missions where they enemies DO patrol around and some are on overwatch almost the entire time, I've had scenarios where I run to a new area, and an alien I hadn't seen yet was on overwatch shoots and kills my soldier, but because I saw him he can now duck into cover.

The game is also fairly buggy, one mission I ran into a muton who was sometimes immune to rockets, everything around him died, the walls he was hiding behind were destroyed, but he was fine.

Yeah, you know...I'm not going to bother. We've been over this and over this on this forum, in this and other threads. I've made some pretty clear points. If you want to believe the game is out to cheat you, that's your prerogative. Nothing I say, no matter how rational, will convince you otherwise. Some people like to call bullshit when things don't break their way, or when they fundamentally misunderstand the way a game works mechanically. I guess my multiple easy completions on Ironman Classic were all flukes. My "luck" must be through the roof. I should play the lottery.

The aliens spawning in the middle of your group is well known bug, btw.

BloatedGuppy:

Yeah, you know...I'm not going to bother. We've been over this and over this on this forum, in this and other threads. I've made some pretty clear points. If you want to believe the game is out to cheat you, that's your prerogative. Nothing I say, no matter how rational, will convince you otherwise. Some people like to call bullshit when things don't break their way, or when they fundamentally misunderstand the way a game works mechanically. I guess my multiple easy completions on Ironman Classic were all flukes. My "luck" must be through the roof. I should play the lottery.

The aliens spawning in the middle of your group is well known bug, btw.

So you're just going to give up? That's fine, you probably could have convinced me as I don't believe the game is trying to cheat me, and I'm happy most of the time (unless like before the enemy shoots through walls which happened around once in ten hours), and I never said the game was impossible or was upset because I was unlucky, I was pointing out issues within the game that you CAN'T chalk up to chance.

I imagine these issues I brought up would be fixed with a patch or two, but that reflects a mindset I hate, that you can just release an unfinished project thinking "We'll finish it later."

Warachia:
So you're just going to give up? That's fine, you probably could have convinced me as I don't believe the game is trying to cheat me, and I'm happy most of the time (unless like before the enemy shoots through walls which happened around once in ten hours), and I never said the game was impossible or was upset because I was unlucky, I was pointing out issues within the game that you CAN'T chalk up to chance.

I imagine these issues I brought up would be fixed with a patch or two, but that reflects a mindset I hate, that you can just release an unfinished project thinking "We'll finish it later."

The bugs are incredibly annoying. It was a ridiculously buggy product at release and remains buggy. Little aesthetic issues like lasers appearing to pass through walls because the game doesn't register them as objects just adds to the feeling that things are awry. I don't excuse the bugs in the slightest, it shipped with some real show stoppers. I realize the game was made on a lightweight budget and I'm happy with Firaxis for making it at all, but I'm tired of developers and publishers skimping on QA.

However, the game is NOT "entirely luck based", the AI does not "cheat", and it is not punitively difficult or unfair to the player. Once you have a firm grasp of the mechanics I actually find the tactical game is probably over-easy on Classic, and Impossible is so deliberately over-tuned I don't find it particularly compelling as a game play mode. I've had so many discussions over the last few weeks with people who claim the game is cheating or broken or fundamentally unfair, and I've just...gotten...tired. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the luckiest man on the face of the earth, and I got the blessed copy of X-Com that isn't full of the ridiculous circumstances some people claim to have been subjected to. But I kinda doubt it.

Ragsnstitches:
I'd love to see a "Terror from the Deep"-esque DLC (new maps, unit types, weapons etc.)

Oooh! Oooh! I just had the most sadistic idea.

Picture this scenario: Having to deal with the original invasion AND the Terror from the Deep scenario, at the same time!

You would have to juggle between maintaining your ground base and ocean base, dealing with UFOs of both the flying and floating variety. Since your ground base weaponry doesn't translate well into ocean scenarios and vice versa, you would have to maintain two separate research and development programs.

It sounds like such a deliciously nasty 1-2 punch type of an invasion.

BloatedGuppy:

Tayh:
Also, no cheating double-turn AI.

Argh. The AI does not take a double-turn. The insta-scatter into cover upon reveal actually works in your favor. What you're asking for is a less neutered AI that would probably be manifestly more frustrating to play against.

OT: We haven't even got the first DLC for this one, I expect a sequel will be at least a year or two in the making, if we get one. This one badly needs a map pack, though.

Back in my day, we had no DLC (because high speed internet was not a thing for most people) and we were happy! We had mods and patches and we loved it. YOU KIDS THESE DAYS! *shakes cane*

BloatedGuppy:

Warachia:
So you're just going to give up? That's fine, you probably could have convinced me as I don't believe the game is trying to cheat me, and I'm happy most of the time (unless like before the enemy shoots through walls which happened around once in ten hours), and I never said the game was impossible or was upset because I was unlucky, I was pointing out issues within the game that you CAN'T chalk up to chance.

I imagine these issues I brought up would be fixed with a patch or two, but that reflects a mindset I hate, that you can just release an unfinished project thinking "We'll finish it later."

The bugs are incredibly annoying. It was a ridiculously buggy product at release and remains buggy. Little aesthetic issues like lasers appearing to pass through walls because the game doesn't register them as objects just adds to the feeling that things are awry. I don't excuse the bugs in the slightest, it shipped with some real show stoppers. I realize the game was made on a lightweight budget and I'm happy with Firaxis for making it at all, but I'm tired of developers and publishers skimping on QA.

However, the game is NOT "entirely luck based", the AI does not "cheat", and it is not punitively difficult or unfair to the player. Once you have a firm grasp of the mechanics I actually find the tactical game is probably over-easy on Classic, and Impossible is so deliberately over-tuned I don't find it particularly compelling as a game play mode. I've had so many discussions over the last few weeks with people who claim the game is cheating or broken or fundamentally unfair, and I've just...gotten...tired. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the luckiest man on the face of the earth, and I got the blessed copy of X-Com that isn't full of the ridiculous circumstances some people claim to have been subjected to. But I kinda doubt it.

My mistake, I was wrong in saying the game is ENTIRELY luck based, but it is MOSTLY luck based, there are several things you can do that will give you a guaranteed damage amount and a guaranteed hit (explosions), but for a large portion you are left with chance, I don't have too many problems with this, nothing major anyway, the reason I don't like the enemy double move is because I think it undercuts the tactical aspect a little, especially when the enemy can use it against things like the snipers vision grenade (forgot the name), if they gave it to the player, removed it, or made it so that they were forced to take cover against the nearest possible piece of cover (until their turn) I'd be much happier.

One thing I'd recommend if you are playing on a PC is looking at the existing mods, since there are already some intriguing ones, I played (I think) about halfway through the game on classic, stopped and started a new game with the UFO Rebalance mod which I'm enjoying more, (on classic grenades can't instantly kill Sectoids any more) and I've heard Warspace extension is pretty good too.

A final thing I'd like to clarify so I don't have to bring it up again was the walls thing, The plasma didn't appear to pass through the wall I got shot, here's the situation, full shield, not near any windows, enemy is on the other side of the wall, shoots me no problem, wall itself takes no damage. Anyway I won't be arguing on this point any further, probably just another bug and the game thought the wall wasn't there, because I hid at a corner and the wall I didn't get shot through was the one my soldier had their back to.

Warachia:

Misho-:

Tayh:

Yeh, it really turns into your favor when the aliens get a free turn to move into cover every time they're discovered.

Here's the thing, they waste their turn when they are discovered. They might double move, but, they never go to cover and shoot you in the same round (the same unit anyhow). But it can be frustrating, such as when a Cryssalid goes from a dark area to a "visible area" and the move again right to the civilian you were trying to save!!! Or Civilians(s)s!

They don't waste their turn though, this can count as them sprinting twice, yes the second time they can't do anything, but in their first action they can certainly attack you, the absolute worst for this are the cryssalids and beserkers, as if those don't move enough already.

Interesting, I've never had the unpleasant surprise of being attacked by an enemy and then they get to sprint for cover. What did happen to me was that a Berserker and his Mutton friend showed up, made the little cinematic, sprint for cover and then... made the animation again and moved to an even better position. The mutton went into Full Cover and the Berseker got in frot of my Sniper like: "Hey, 'sup?"

Warachia:

BloatedGuppy:

Warachia:
So you're just going to give up? That's fine, you probably could have convinced me as I don't believe the game is trying to cheat me, and I'm happy most of the time (unless like before the enemy shoots through walls which happened around once in ten hours), and I never said the game was impossible or was upset because I was unlucky, I was pointing out issues within the game that you CAN'T chalk up to chance.

I imagine these issues I brought up would be fixed with a patch or two, but that reflects a mindset I hate, that you can just release an unfinished project thinking "We'll finish it later."

The bugs are incredibly annoying. It was a ridiculously buggy product at release and remains buggy. Little aesthetic issues like lasers appearing to pass through walls because the game doesn't register them as objects just adds to the feeling that things are awry. I don't excuse the bugs in the slightest, it shipped with some real show stoppers. I realize the game was made on a lightweight budget and I'm happy with Firaxis for making it at all, but I'm tired of developers and publishers skimping on QA.

However, the game is NOT "entirely luck based", the AI does not "cheat", and it is not punitively difficult or unfair to the player. Once you have a firm grasp of the mechanics I actually find the tactical game is probably over-easy on Classic, and Impossible is so deliberately over-tuned I don't find it particularly compelling as a game play mode. I've had so many discussions over the last few weeks with people who claim the game is cheating or broken or fundamentally unfair, and I've just...gotten...tired. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the luckiest man on the face of the earth, and I got the blessed copy of X-Com that isn't full of the ridiculous circumstances some people claim to have been subjected to. But I kinda doubt it.

My mistake, I was wrong in saying the game is ENTIRELY luck based, but it is MOSTLY luck based, there are several things you can do that will give you a guaranteed damage amount and a guaranteed hit (explosions), but for a large portion you are left with chance, I don't have too many problems with this, nothing major anyway, the reason I don't like the enemy double move is because I think it undercuts the tactical aspect a little, especially when the enemy can use it against things like the snipers vision grenade (forgot the name), if they gave it to the player, removed it, or made it so that they were forced to take cover against the nearest possible piece of cover (until their turn) I'd be much happier.

One thing I'd recommend if you are playing on a PC is looking at the existing mods, since there are already some intriguing ones, I played (I think) about halfway through the game on classic, stopped and started a new game with the UFO Rebalance mod which I'm enjoying more, (on classic grenades can't instantly kill Sectoids any more) and I've heard Warspace extension is pretty good too.

A final thing I'd like to clarify so I don't have to bring it up again was the walls thing, The plasma didn't appear to pass through the wall I got shot, here's the situation, full shield, not near any windows, enemy is on the other side of the wall, shoots me no problem, wall itself takes no damage. Anyway I won't be arguing on this point any further, probably just another bug and the game thought the wall wasn't there, because I hid at a corner and the wall I didn't get shot through was the one my soldier had their back to.

Cover in Xcom is abstract... the walls are not physically blocking shots, they are adding modifiers to both you and the enemy (you get a defence bonus which lowers damage taken, while the enemy receives a penalty to their aim). This is why full cover can be shot through. The walls themselves have a damage threshold and hit chance, though unfortunately can't be targeted outside of freeaim shots.

The only instance where a unit can shoot through a wall without line of sight (again, remembering that cover is abstract) is moving while an enemy is in overwatch.

This is a known bug that affects both the AI and the player.

There are a few maps where the walls and ceilings are "transparent"... which is another bug. However these bugs can be exploited by the player as well (and the AI does not seem to actively seek out these exploits, they just happen accidentally).

A few smaller points:

After seeing your other points I have a few more issues with the game, I've been shot and have shot through walls (SOLID COVER) because the game decided that cover wasn't there, I've also had 3 mutons spawn in the middle of my troops during the enemy turn, which meant I saw them, so they took cover, then shot me. THAT's bullshit.
And I would take a bunch of aliens patrolling the area, because then you could use tactics, and set up ambushes, which you can't do in this game because it's entirely luck based, if the computer fucks up and gets seen, it should be punished for it, not helped.

You also seem to have forgotten about the missions where they enemies DO patrol around and some are on overwatch almost the entire time, I've had scenarios where I run to a new area, and an alien I hadn't seen yet was on overwatch shoots and kills my soldier, but because I saw him he can now duck into cover.

*They can't "appear" and shoot in the same turn, even if they appear in their turn.

*Enemies never enter overwatch unless previously spotted. The only enemy that does are the snake men in council missions, but even then you are pretty much told where they appear during the "hostiles incoming" phase of those missions.

*Free patrols instead of "monster closets" would actually seriously ramp up the difficulty. Your complaints about finding previously unseen enemies in overwatch is exactly what you would find in a free patrol situation. That is how the classic xcom worked... what resulted was instances where your first move (back then you had to get off the lander yourself) could get a soldier shot and killed before you even spotted the enemy. The format of classic xcom was to hire dozens of rookies each month with the sole purpose of being cannon fodder, so you can waste their free shots in the opening sections of a battle (you could have up to 20+ units on the field as well)

*Again cover is abstract... the wall is not actually a wall, but a stat modifier... same with elevation. If you can see the enemy, the enemy can see you (unless your using the field scanner). Full cover can affect line of sight too: If you stand next to an open corner (one you peek around) enemies you see can see you too, but if there is another spot of full cover next to this (and with no open corners) it can be used to obstruct line of sight (tactically this can be used to lure enemies around a corner for some serious overwatch rapeage).

Heck, my sniper with his archangel armour could 100% any enemy in full cover from well beyond that enemies field of view (using squadsight). He'd never hit walls or obstructions.

Finally:

I was moving the last person, who then sees a muton, and the mutons immediately run to a position that lets them flank me, then it's the aliens turn, now that is bullshit

Not bullshit at all, that's your fault entirely.

You have 2 moves for each unit, and NEVER should you EVER use the last move of your turn as a scouting move. The only unit that can use up both moves for scouting are the assault guys using the run and gun perk, since they can shoot or overwatch if such an event arises.

Even if they didn't move in your turn, they would just move in their turn THEN shoot you. In this scenario your fucked either way, even if the game was doing exactly what you want it to do. Not because of bullshit, but due to BAD TACTICAL DECISIONS.

If you struggle with Tactics now, how would making the game "more tactical" help? I think you have disillusioned yourself as to what the problem actually is.

Product Placement:

Ragsnstitches:
I'd love to see a "Terror from the Deep"-esque DLC (new maps, unit types, weapons etc.)

Oooh! Oooh! I just had the most sadistic idea.

Picture this scenario: Having to deal with the original invasion AND the Terror from the Deep scenario, at the same time!

You would have to juggle between maintaining your ground base and ocean base, dealing with UFOs of both the flying and floating variety. Since your ground base weaponry doesn't translate well into ocean scenarios and vice versa, you would have to maintain two separate research and development programs.

It sounds like such a deliciously nasty 1-2 punch type of an invasion.

Ha, you crazy man, you crazy.

I actually was thinking of this too when I wrote that, but now I think a standalone experience (distinct from vanilla xcom) would be better. It can play out as you dealing with the remnants of the alien invasion who have retreated under the ocean (along with previously unseen variants) and, after so long, are now wreaking havoc on coastal environments and Naval vessels (very much like the classic Terror from the Deep).

Man they have to do something like this... Terror from the Deep was great.

Misho-:

Interesting, I've never had the unpleasant surprise of being attacked by an enemy and then they get to sprint for cover. What did happen to me was that a Berserker and his Mutton friend showed up, made the little cinematic, sprint for cover and then... made the animation again and moved to an even better position. The mutton went into Full Cover and the Berseker got in frot of my Sniper like: "Hey, 'sup?"

Same group moved twice? Are you sure it wasn't 2 groups?

or

Did any of your guys shoot the berserker (in overwatch or something)?
If they did that can trigger intimidate which makes the berserker charge (after a cinematic sequence) at its attacker (and if shit really hits the fan, makes your guy panic in his next turn).

Misho-:
Here's the thing, they waste their turn when they are discovered. They might double move, but, they never go to cover and shoot you in the same round (the same unit anyhow). But it can be frustrating, such as when a Cryssalid goes from a dark area to a "visible area" and the move again right to the civilian you were trying to save!!! Or Civilians(s)s!

How can they waste a free turn?
In games such as JA2, if you manage to catch an enemy unaware, you get to shoot at them before they can react. Once your turn ends, THEN they get to react, go into cover, shoot back, etc.

In XCOM, you find an enemy -> THEN they get to react and go into cover, and now you have the hassle of trying to get into flanking or defensive positions(after already having spent half your movement) and/or attempt to take out the aliens, except now it is much harder to do so since they're all in cover.
Then, once you end your turn, the aliens get to shoot at you while already being in entrenched positions.

This cheating gimmick would have been acceptable if the aliens could also trigger spontanous turns for the player, if they happen to walk into the players' sight during patrols, but no, only the AI gets that priviledge - and THAT is my grudge.

Ragsnstitches:
snip

Start of enemy turn, the mutons showed up, saw me, moved, then got their regular turn. I know that happened because that's one of the times when I just reloaded then set everyone into overwatch. At least that only happened once, though I have had the aliens spawning where they shouldn't (two mutons and a berserker at my skyranger during a UFO landed mission.

The last movement was NOT a scouting move, I placed that person directly next to another guy, and apparently the one square difference was enough to see the mutons, and have them see me.
The reason I'd be much happier if they moved in their turn, saw and shot me is because at least then it would have been their ambush that I would have fallen into, incidentally, if it was their turn when they saw me, they could not have shot because they would have had to sprint to the cover that gave them the flanking position, and they cannot shoot during their free move.
I'm not going to defend this any more because while I still hold that situation partially up to a bad game mechanic, it's also my fault for not abusing these mechanics.

That extra turn I absolutely hate, but I already explained why. I probably wouldn't mind it as much if they could only move as far as the berserker charge (instead of being able to sprint), that would be far enough for them to get into cover, but not enough for them to flank you when you see them.

Here's why the free patrol system would work within this game, because you have items that extend line of sight, and your assaults have skills that let them dodge overwatch shots, that system would make assault units more useful on the battlefield because you can use them as scouts instead of cannon fodder rookies, you also have armour that buffs up their HP, allowing them to take several hits (and even critical hits) before they die, whereas in the original X-COM I had units wearing the flight armour and sectoids were still killing them with one shot.

I would love a sequel. I'm one of those people who bought every single X-Com game (yes, including Interceptor and Enforcer) and I am really happy that the franchise is getting a much-deserved, well made renewal.

I'd like it to be more like Apocalypse than Terror from the Deep, though, which was essentially just a reskin of the original. And if Jake Solomon, the remake's lead designer is to be believed, a TftD expansion is unlikely, as he wasn't too fond of it either.

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