Biggest plot holes in games

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Legion:
Fallout 3 original ending is the worst one that I have ever encountered.

...

Yeah... I am glad that they added the DLC which allows you to take the logical option... but they still do the whole "You die despite being exposed to no radiation" thing... And they effectively call you a coward for taking the sane option!

Devoneaux:

canadamus_prime:
One that's been bugging me since the end of Mass Effect 2 (haven't played 3, so maybe someone who has can sort this out for me), but it's established in the first game that the Citadel is the only (known) way for the Reapers to get into our Galaxy from Dark Space and yet at the end of Mass Effect 2 it's implied that a huge invasion is on it's way and that was the whole plot of Mass Effect 3 was it not? My question is how the hell did they get here? We shut down their only known way in in the first game.

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

bloodrayne626:
Not so much a plot hole, but in FarCry3

what the hell happened to all the guards?

It just irked me a little. Not enough to be an "oh my god this game sucks because it missed a few details" moment (not like I have those, anyway), but still, what the hell?

The answer is simple

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

canadamus_prime:
One that's been bugging me since the end of Mass Effect 2 (haven't played 3, so maybe someone who has can sort this out for me), but it's established in the first game that the Citadel is the only (known) way for the Reapers to get into our Galaxy from Dark Space and yet at the end of Mass Effect 2 it's implied that a huge invasion is on it's way and that was the whole plot of Mass Effect 3 was it not? My question is how the hell did they get here? We shut down their only known way in in the first game.

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Well Relays are like a fast travel between areas. So there was a relay at the Citadel and a relay off in Dark Space that they were camping. When it activates they can get there much quickly than flying from dark space to the very first active relay they come across. It was more about Arrival, where they ambush the central government and then spread out. Instead they ended up having to start at the very fringe worlds (Batarians) and work their way to the Alpha relay (which was blown up) and then they had to work their way to the NEXT relay. Sure they can do it through standard flight, but the Relays would have been far more efficient and would have been far more effective in terms of attacking the other races.

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

canadamus_prime:
One that's been bugging me since the end of Mass Effect 2 (haven't played 3, so maybe someone who has can sort this out for me), but it's established in the first game that the Citadel is the only (known) way for the Reapers to get into our Galaxy from Dark Space and yet at the end of Mass Effect 2 it's implied that a huge invasion is on it's way and that was the whole plot of Mass Effect 3 was it not? My question is how the hell did they get here? We shut down their only known way in in the first game.

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Actually, it took the Reapers half a year to get to the edge of our galaxy, rather than the instantaneous teleporting in the Citadel relay would have allowed them. Their MO has always been to pop into the galaxy through the Citadel, fuck shit up and take control of the Citadel, shut down the relay network for all but their use, and take over the galaxy system by system. By stopping them from using the Citadel, you both pushed back their invasion and slowed them down. The real plothole comes from the fact that the Reapers didn't go after the citadel until the very end. The whole thing would've been much easier for them if they did, as not doing so allowed people to flee the major systems, fight the Reapers on multiple fronts, and allowed a unified resistance amongst the different races.

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

canadamus_prime:
One that's been bugging me since the end of Mass Effect 2 (haven't played 3, so maybe someone who has can sort this out for me), but it's established in the first game that the Citadel is the only (known) way for the Reapers to get into our Galaxy from Dark Space and yet at the end of Mass Effect 2 it's implied that a huge invasion is on it's way and that was the whole plot of Mass Effect 3 was it not? My question is how the hell did they get here? We shut down their only known way in in the first game.

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Only because the 2nd game sucked.

See the idea I think was that stopping sovereign was supposed to give Shep time to build alliances and prepare for war and find a way to stop them. The problem is that the 2nd game doesn't go anywhere with this, rendering the previous struggles completely moot. You might as well just start off at ME3 and not bother with anything prior.

Well there is sort of one in Spec Ops the Line. Let me just start by saying that I love Spec Ops the Line, however I can't deny that as chilling and powerful as the ending is and the twist certainly was clever in a way of defying genre, one aspect doesn't make sense.


Now that works very well but where it falls apart is the fact that:

Of course there is also the possibility that:

That could make it make more sense.

tendaji:

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Well Relays are like a fast travel between areas. So there was a relay at the Citadel and a relay off in Dark Space that they were camping. When it activates they can get there much quickly than flying from dark space to the very first active relay they come across. It was more about Arrival, where they ambush the central government and then spread out. Instead they ended up having to start at the very fringe worlds (Batarians) and work their way to the Alpha relay (which was blown up) and then they had to work their way to the NEXT relay. Sure they can do it through standard flight, but the Relays would have been far more efficient and would have been far more effective in terms of attacking the other races.

wintercoat:

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Actually, it took the Reapers half a year to get to the edge of our galaxy, rather than the instantaneous teleporting in the Citadel relay would have allowed them. Their MO has always been to pop into the galaxy through the Citadel, fuck shit up and take control of the Citadel, shut down the relay network for all but their use, and take over the galaxy system by system. By stopping them from using the Citadel, you both pushed back their invasion and slowed them down. The real plothole comes from the fact that the Reapers didn't go after the citadel until the very end. The whole thing would've been much easier for them if they did, as not doing so allowed people to flee the major systems, fight the Reapers on multiple fronts, and allowed a unified resistance amongst the different races.

Well I got the very distinct impression that the Citadel was the Reapers only major means of entry. Maybe I just misunderstood what "Dark Space" meant.

Devoneaux:

canadamus_prime:

Devoneaux:

They just fly there directly somehow...Space magic that's how!

Whatever the case, it kinda renders all the shenanigans from the first game kinda moot, doesn't it? After all, if they could just fly in whenever they wanted, what the hell did they need the Citadel for?

Only because the 2nd game sucked.

See the idea I think was that stopping sovereign was supposed to give Shep time to build alliances and prepare for war and find a way to stop them. The problem is that the 2nd game doesn't go anywhere with this, rendering the previous struggles completely moot. You might as well just start off at ME3 and not bother with anything prior.

Not really relevant (the fact that the second game sucked according to you) since the only reason I mentioned the second game, aside from the fact that it's as far as I got in the series before I gave up on it, was that the ending introduced the impending Reaper invasion; which, as I said, I was a little confused as to how that was possible.

Modern Warfare 2. The whole Russian invasion of the U.s. doesn't make sense.

First off, after the mission "No Russian", wouldn't the Russian authorities have launched a massive investigation, which would involve identifying the three other gunmen? Which would, in turn, reveal that the leader was a known terrorist and madman.

Two, since when is it considered sane to declare war on a country for the actions of one crazy-person (who wasn't actually crazy)? Some may cite the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and WWI, but I (preemptively) counter that there were already factors and men/idiots who were pushing for war and the assassination was just the straw that broke the camel's back. As far as we (and the game) know, war is declared for the sole reason of an American being involved in the slaughter.

Three, the entire invasion force is shown to be attacking from the Pacific and the Atlantic. The Pacific? Yeah, I can buy that, since Russia has direct access to the Pacific Ocean. But the Atlantic? No way. That would mean that Russian forces had to either a)launch from the Barents Sea and make a long sea trip, b)take a massive road trip through Europe, or c)fly massive armadas over Europe, all of which involve (illegally) passing through the borders/airspace of almost every major European power.

Four, how do you launch a massive, full scale invasion force in the digital age, which has almost-instantaneous-communication and satellite surveillance, without anyone noticing until the last minute?

And finally, the coup-de-grace, the most glaring hole the Russian invasion in MW2 has. The entire invasion force: all the men, the equipment, the armor, the aircraft, the supplies and ammunition. All of that was gathered, prepped, organized, and mobilized, within the span of three days.

No sense at all.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate MW2. It's a solid and enjoyable shooter. It just didn't think things through.

Bioshock. Your character has just regained his free will and is now free for the first time (in his life or since coming to Rapture) to do as he wishes and to not have to follow orders. You are immediately given orders and lead down linear paths for the rest of the game. (Less a plothole and more a more a narrative failure but still relevant).

canadamus_prime:
Well I got the very distinct impression that the Citadel was the Reapers only major means of entry. Maybe I just misunderstood what "Dark Space" meant.

Yeah, Dark Space is just the term they use for the mostly empty deep space in between galaxies. At the end of each cycle the reapers take the Citadel Relay out to another relay that floats outside the edge of the Milky Way galaxy and wait for 50,000 years. Then they take the relay back into the heart of the galactic government and wipe it out, then isolate each system and take them one by one.

When Shepard & Co. stopped that from happening in the first game, it just meant that the reapers would have to use conventional FTL travel to the edge of the galaxy and find a working relay to take to the rest of the worlds they wanted to destroy. It was simply a delay, not a prevention. That's what the final frames of ME2 are about, the reapers have begun their long but inexorable advance on our galaxy.

skyward sword,

In sky=can not see ground to meany clouds

On ground = can see a nice blue sunny sky

Twilight_guy:
Bioshock. Your character has just regained his free will and is now free for the first time (in his life or since coming to Rapture) to do as he wishes and to not have to follow orders. You are immediately given orders and lead down linear paths for the rest of the game. (Less a plothole and more a more a narrative failure but still relevant).

Devoneaux:

TheVampwizimp:

Okay, possible spoilers for ME3 in here.


What else you got?

I'll concede to the first two not being plot holes (But they are still sloppy writing) however:

3: the desk shatters as it hits the wall, it's hard to see but it is what happens.

4: Again, Geth are hyper logical machines, the geth don't have that concept of "This is my home I will die defending it!" they have a concept of "The logistical value of this planet is equal to or greater than the combined value of our entire species, apparantly." And even if this were the case, why is it that the good geth never reach out and try to make nice with everyone else? Why not go directly to the council races and say "Help stop this war for us and we'll help you with the reapers?" I'm not saying this would work, but the fact that they never ever try this is dumb.

Ok, at this point I will have to take your word on the desk shattering. Still, I can assume that Anderson checked that escape route while Shepard was momentarily dazed after the explosion and decided it was blocked or otherwise unsuitable for use. Maybe the stairs were on fire. Point is, there are explanations, you don't have to immediately jump to the conclusion that it is an irredeemable mistake.

And the geth had no reason whatsoever to trust the Council to step in on their behalf, because the fact is they wouldn't. They are far too concerned about the Reaper War to bother getting involved in another. More importantly, the geth are by their very nature illegal in council space, the Citadel government would only encourage the quarians to get rid of that problem. Third, Rannoch is far outside of council space anyway, beyond their jurisdiction. Asking for their help is in no way a logical action.

A more logical action would be to try asking the quarians themselves for peace. This might have been a good move, but 1) the quarians were already winning the war handily until the deadlock at the homeworld, why would they stop to parley now when they have their sworn enemy in a corner? and 2) we don't know that the geth didn't actually try this and had their offer rejected out of hand.

As far as I understood the situation, the geth had no way to escape the Rannoch system. The quarians had control of the relay and the geth were doing all they could just to hold them off. It seemed that the quarians had overrun the geth all the way down to one planet, had them surrounded, and were not about to relinquish this advantage to talk peace. The geth had no options, they had to fight their way out.

Look, the whole overarching point of my arguing is that so-called "plot holes" are not necessarily so just because the solution is not immediately obvious to everyone. There are answers here if you pay attention and think about it. Obviously not everyone can be bothered to do that, but declaring it faulty writing is uncalled for.

TheVampwizimp:

Devoneaux:

TheVampwizimp:

Okay, possible spoilers for ME3 in here.


What else you got?

I'll concede to the first two not being plot holes (But they are still sloppy writing) however:

3: the desk shatters as it hits the wall, it's hard to see but it is what happens.

4: Again, Geth are hyper logical machines, the geth don't have that concept of "This is my home I will die defending it!" they have a concept of "The logistical value of this planet is equal to or greater than the combined value of our entire species, apparantly." And even if this were the case, why is it that the good geth never reach out and try to make nice with everyone else? Why not go directly to the council races and say "Help stop this war for us and we'll help you with the reapers?" I'm not saying this would work, but the fact that they never ever try this is dumb.

Ok, at this point I will have to take your word on the desk shattering. Still, I can assume that Anderson checked that escape route while Shepard was momentarily dazed after the explosion and decided it was blocked or otherwise unsuitable for use. Maybe the stairs were on fire. Point is, there are explanations, you don't have to immediately jump to the conclusion that it is an irredeemable mistake.

Okay I know there is more but this one in particular caught my attention.

Part of the job of a writer is to explain not just what the hero(s) are doing, but why. If the audience has to make assumptions on behalf of the story to cover a plot hole then the story is sloppy. What is particularly irritating about this is that the fix is incredibly simple. All we needed was one scene where Anderson goes "Damn, the door's jammed. We'll have to find another way." But because this is Mac Walters we're talking about, attention to details like this is beyond him.

Also, here's something to think of. When we see Shepard first he's looking at some kid from a room that he apparantly lived in based on the fact that there is bedroom stuff in the room. So okay Shepard has been staying here maybe? But wait, there's tons of people in military uniforms running about. So it's a barracks then and Shepard is just in an officer's quarters...Wait, there's a court room too? A court room that also has communications staff and and monitors and all sorts of things like that?...What is this building that has the combined functionality of military command center, courthouse, comms center and a place for keeping people under house arrest? Where is this?

TheVampwizimp:

canadamus_prime:
Well I got the very distinct impression that the Citadel was the Reapers only major means of entry. Maybe I just misunderstood what "Dark Space" meant.

Yeah, Dark Space is just the term they use for the mostly empty deep space in between galaxies. At the end of each cycle the reapers take the Citadel Relay out to another relay that floats outside the edge of the Milky Way galaxy and wait for 50,000 years. Then they take the relay back into the heart of the galactic government and wipe it out, then isolate each system and take them one by one.

When Shepard & Co. stopped that from happening in the first game, it just meant that the reapers would have to use conventional FTL travel to the edge of the galaxy and find a working relay to take to the rest of the worlds they wanted to destroy. It was simply a delay, not a prevention. That's what the final frames of ME2 are about, the reapers have begun their long but inexorable advance on our galaxy.

Oh ok. I thought Dark Space was something else. Guess that makes sense then.

SamtheDeathclaw:
Fallout 3. Like, the whole thing.
The supermutants have no way out of Vault 87. The Enclave have no way in to capture you. There's a cure for radiation now. There's perfectly human-like androids, which are apparently very common around Boston.
Don't even get me started on the original ending. What a mess.

Also, I don't really understand the outrage about DA2. It's not as bad as people make it sound. At least, I never thought it was.
Specifically, I don't understand why people are insistent that the Templars are nice to you the entire game. They aren't. You meet a lot of crazy ones that often try and kill you. Same with mages. Not all of them are good, and not all are bad. And the story doesn't let you side with the crazy lady whose name I forget. Because she's crazy. You can totally side with the Templars until she betrays you, though. You even get different ending cinematics for it. I don't know how people can say it forces you to help/like/side/work with mages. It really doesn't. You just can't work with the crazy templars.

Anyways.

RedDeadFred:
Borderlands 2. Why don't they just turn off the new you station? You die once, you're gone for good. Better yet, why wouldn't Jack put his DNA into it so he couldn't die (after all, he has a massive amount of money)?

Cut dialogue explains this, actually. Jack calls you up to directly mock you for using his own machines and says you're such a failure that he takes pity on you and keeps you alive for teh lulz. Later, when he's serious about killing you, Angel is keeping them online. Then, after you kill a certain person and really piss Jack off, he wants to kill you himself.
Dunno about why they don't bring him back to life, though. It may have been explained too, but I haven't seen anything.

Same thing with the oft-referenced Wilhelm fight. Jack wanted you to get the power core so he could completely take off Sanctuary's shield. I stopped watching ZP out of disgust when Yahtzee completely missed that and mocked the game for it. It's a really painfully obvious ploy, but a lot of people still think it's a plot hole. -sigh-

Ah cool. That makes sense actually and maybe there's some obscure reason for Jack not using them. I don't know why people think the Wilhelm fight is a plot hole either. It's explained like 3 minutes later.

Edit: Also, I got three people responding to this and I don't post very many things that normally get responses so when I saw the three messages symbol, my first though was: "oh no, I accidentally just pissed off a bunch of people." Good to see that wasn't the case!

CityofTreez:

Twilight_guy:
Bioshock. Your character has just regained his free will and is now free for the first time (in his life or since coming to Rapture) to do as he wishes and to not have to follow orders. You are immediately given orders and lead down linear paths for the rest of the game. (Less a plothole and more a more a narrative failure but still relevant).

And yet you're still not choosing your path, and you have no free will. You're still, in game terms, a slave despite everything that happened for the last ten minutes being about fixing that. Whether or not revenge was your only option and escape can occur only one way you're still being directed by somebody on a radio and following their commands. You haven't advanced at all.

hermes200:

wakeup:

hermes200:
In Heavy Rain, they never explain Ethan's blackouts, which is a pretty big deal because they are the reason he is the main suspect. What is more, they contain information about victims Ethan wouldn't have even met...

they came out in a video and explained that one but it had a supernatural like explanation so the scenes that explained that were cut out of the game. shame really

Ohh, yes. The old "character with psychic abilities has a link with the killer" trope. I found that one out later, but it doesn't fix the plot hole they left dangling in the game.
Then again, that trope is so cheap that is probably better they cut it, shame they didn't fix the script to remove the weird blackouts, though.

There are other ways they could have made the blackouts make sense though, its just annoying because it exists in the game soley to create false suspicion. Although its not nearly as bad as

Heavy Rain was a step in the right direction, and a genuinely enjoyable experience at times, but its marred by some really retarded decisions

not to be a heavy rain defender but if you watch that scene again when the clocks start ringing the camera focuses on Lauren looking at a music box. that is supposedly when he is killed. although there is no way he could do that in that amount of time.

canadamus_prime:
One that's been bugging me since the end of Mass Effect 2 (haven't played 3, so maybe someone who has can sort this out for me), but it's established in the first game that the Citadel is the only (known) way for the Reapers to get into our Galaxy from Dark Space and yet at the end of Mass Effect 2 it's implied that a huge invasion is on it's way and that was the whole plot of Mass Effect 3 was it not? My question is how the hell did they get here? We shut down their only known way in in the first game.

Think of the Citadel as a cross country flight, and the backdoor methods as driving a bicycle down the entirety of I-40. Both will get you the 3,000 or so miles, but one's a lot faster than the other.

Devoneaux:

Renegade Shepard:

Devoneaux:

On the mars mission, why did Cerberus bring land based vehicles? And if they brought them, where was the ship they brought them on? Wouldn't it have shown up on the SR2's scanners like every other Cerberus vessel does?

Who is Vega and how does he know Shepard?

So reapers attack earth and Shepard and Anderson start climbing around on the rooftops. Why? Why didn't they just take the stairs, how is this in any way faster or safer than the sensible thing?

So Legion and all his buddies have been on Rhannoc for 290 years. Why during that amount of time didn't they just pack up their shit and leave when the Quarians came? what is so valuable about a planet to a bunch of machines that they would be willing to risk everything just to keep it?

I can do this all day!

I have a shotgun.

Well I stole your thermal clips! >:D

I never said I was going to fire it. That's always too quick.

Vrex360:

That could make it make more sense.

you almost hit the nail on the head with that one, according to the lead writer of the game.

of course he also stated that its all open to interpretation and you can believe whatever you want

Dalisclock:

deadman91:
Now this is a bit out but the fact that no one ever seemed to call attention to it pissed me off. In Modern Warfare 2, why is it that the Russian terrorists, perpetrating an act of terror in Russia (a region that really has supplied enough illegal weapons to maintain several wars since the fall of communism and immediately after a civil war which would have left even more arms floating around) buy their guns from a guy in Brazil? Seriously, why the fuck would you need to buy your guns from Brazil? I know it's just a deus ex machina so we'd have a level in the favellas, but it grated me nonetheless.

As I said, what really pissed me off was the fact no one else seemed to give it the same thought. Everyone else was too busy griping about nukes in space, or were unable to comprehend why that general bloke betrays you.

That bugged me as well, not to mention the bit about the oil rig workers being held hostage by the russians. Except the oil rig workers are russians so why would they bother holding them captive?

I think most of the problem lies with the fact that it's really unclear in MW2 and MW3 exactly what Makarov's reationship to the Russian Government is. Sometimes he hates them, sometimes he appears to be working directly with them. I've heard some people argue he's running the Russian Military by MW3. I really wanted to ask the IW guys exactly what's going on with that.

I'm not the only one who wants to have a chat with the writers then. It always struck me that it seemed in MW2 and 3 there seemed to be a large and somewhat complex story, but some shithead must have come along and went "we don't need all this exposition and plot! cut it out and replace it with another helicopter crash" and boom, we're apparently running through Paris looking for the President of Russia's daughter for... reasons. Well at least it's easier to follow and makes more sense than the convoluted tripe that Treyarch pumps out for Black Ops.

Devoneaux:

TheVampwizimp:

Devoneaux:

I'll concede to the first two not being plot holes (But they are still sloppy writing) however:

3: the desk shatters as it hits the wall, it's hard to see but it is what happens.

4: Again, Geth are hyper logical machines, the geth don't have that concept of "This is my home I will die defending it!" they have a concept of "The logistical value of this planet is equal to or greater than the combined value of our entire species, apparantly." And even if this were the case, why is it that the good geth never reach out and try to make nice with everyone else? Why not go directly to the council races and say "Help stop this war for us and we'll help you with the reapers?" I'm not saying this would work, but the fact that they never ever try this is dumb.

Ok, at this point I will have to take your word on the desk shattering. Still, I can assume that Anderson checked that escape route while Shepard was momentarily dazed after the explosion and decided it was blocked or otherwise unsuitable for use. Maybe the stairs were on fire. Point is, there are explanations, you don't have to immediately jump to the conclusion that it is an irredeemable mistake.

Okay I know there is more but this one in particular caught my attention.

Part of the job of a writer is to explain not just what the hero(s) are doing, but why. If the audience has to make assumptions on behalf of the story to cover a plot hole then the story is sloppy. What is particularly irritating about this is that the fix is incredibly simple. All we needed was one scene where Anderson goes "Damn, the door's jammed. We'll have to find another way." But because this is Mac Walters we're talking about, attention to details like this is beyond him.

Also, here's something to think of. When we see Shepard first he's looking at some kid from a room that he apparantly lived in based on the fact that there is bedroom stuff in the room. So okay Shepard has been staying here maybe? But wait, there's tons of people in military uniforms running about. So it's a barracks then and Shepard is just in an officer's quarters...Wait, there's a court room too? A court room that also has communications staff and and monitors and all sorts of things like that?...What is this building that has the combined functionality of military command center, courthouse, comms center and a place for keeping people under house arrest? Where is this?

its like Annapolis a major millitary base but also a school, training ground, comand center, and judical hall.

bloodrayne626:
Not so much a plot hole, but in FarCry3

what the hell happened to all the guards?

It just irked me a little. Not enough to be an "oh my god this game sucks because it missed a few details" moment (not like I have those, anyway), but still, what the hell?

I'm not entirely sure, but from what I've read online about the hallucination scenes i think they are supposed to represent the protagonist's deteriorating mental state. They are questionable at best (e.g why do the rooms switch all of a sudden when the fight begins/ends?). It could be in Jason's mind he thinks he's killing 1 person, when in reality he has killed like 6

On topic: Heavy Rain. There were so many plot elements that were left unexplained: why does Ethan wake up with origami in his hand? when he black's out, how does he wake up in a completely different from where he blacked out? How did Madison know Scott? There was apparently meant to be some DLC episodes that helped explain some of this, but they were cancelled, leaving all these giant plot holes unfilled.

Devoneaux:
Okay I know there is more but this one in particular caught my attention.

Part of the job of a writer is to explain not just what the hero(s) are doing, but why. If the audience has to make assumptions on behalf of the story to cover a plot hole then the story is sloppy. What is particularly irritating about this is that the fix is incredibly simple. All we needed was one scene where Anderson goes "Damn, the door's jammed. We'll have to find another way." But because this is Mac Walters we're talking about, attention to details like this is beyond him.

Also, here's something to think of. When we see Shepard first he's looking at some kid from a room that he apparantly lived in based on the fact that there is bedroom stuff in the room. So okay Shepard has been staying here maybe? But wait, there's tons of people in military uniforms running about. So it's a barracks then and Shepard is just in an officer's quarters...Wait, there's a court room too? A court room that also has communications staff and and monitors and all sorts of things like that?...What is this building that has the combined functionality of military command center, courthouse, comms center and a place for keeping people under house arrest? Where is this?

You're right about that, it was an easy fix to an easy problem that was apparently overlooked.

But why can't one structure have different functions? It's got a barracks, which we see Shepard and Vega in, then they meet Anderson and the Virmire Survivor in the hallways, then they take an elevator. The elevator could lead anywhere else in the building. Where Shepard and Anderson decide to go is, as far as we can tell, a command center.

We seem to have made different assumptions about the purpose of this room. You call it a court house, but I call it a command center on the ground. We know Shepard is awaiting a trial, but no one said he/she was going to this proceeding; as I recall, Anderson just said that the Admirals wanted to speak to him/her. Then Shepard is taken to the Admirals in a room filled with displays and monitors and military equipment, which says command center to me. So all I see here is a large military structure that houses officers and serves as a headquarters for the Admirals in charge. Not a stretch to say this could really exist, and I saw no incongruity there.

TheVampwizimp:

Devoneaux:
Okay I know there is more but this one in particular caught my attention.

Part of the job of a writer is to explain not just what the hero(s) are doing, but why. If the audience has to make assumptions on behalf of the story to cover a plot hole then the story is sloppy. What is particularly irritating about this is that the fix is incredibly simple. All we needed was one scene where Anderson goes "Damn, the door's jammed. We'll have to find another way." But because this is Mac Walters we're talking about, attention to details like this is beyond him.

Also, here's something to think of. When we see Shepard first he's looking at some kid from a room that he apparantly lived in based on the fact that there is bedroom stuff in the room. So okay Shepard has been staying here maybe? But wait, there's tons of people in military uniforms running about. So it's a barracks then and Shepard is just in an officer's quarters...Wait, there's a court room too? A court room that also has communications staff and and monitors and all sorts of things like that?...What is this building that has the combined functionality of military command center, courthouse, comms center and a place for keeping people under house arrest? Where is this?

You're right about that, it was an easy fix to an easy problem that was apparently overlooked.

But why can't one structure have different functions? It's got a barracks, which we see Shepard and Vega in, then they meet Anderson and the Virmire Survivor in the hallways, then they take an elevator. The elevator could lead anywhere else in the building. Where Shepard and Anderson decide to go is, as far as we can tell, a command center.

We seem to have made different assumptions about the purpose of this room. You call it a court house, but I call it a command center on the ground. We know Shepard is awaiting a trial, but no one said he/she was going to this proceeding; as I recall, Anderson just said that the Admirals wanted to speak to him/her. Then Shepard is taken to the Admirals in a room filled with displays and monitors and military equipment, which says command center to me. So all I see here is a large military structure that houses officers and serves as a headquarters for the Admirals in charge. Not a stretch to say this could really exist, and I saw no incongruity there.

We don't see a barracks. We see one room. One lone room with one bed. Why? If this is a barracks then why is it located in a high rise skyscraper type building? You can take the assumption of the court house if you like, it still doesn't make things any less confusing. Also, if he wasn't headed to his proceedings, then why even bring it up? What did Shepard do that necessitates proceedings anyway? I didn't play arrival, am I to assume that arrival happened anyway?

So Shepard and Anderson run into a building with a broken door and that stupid kid shows up. How? He was on a completely different building. Did he climb down that building, and climb up ours? Why would he do that? Why can't Shepard help him?
Also we heard him climbing around before, but now he just disappears without a sound. So then we see a dreadnought get blown up even though dreadnoughts aren't supposed to enter atmospheres like that I thought?

So then we're on the Normandy and oh hey Vega, why are you here? Why did you come with us? Did Kaiden say "Hey, Vega! Come with me on the Normandy!" I guess so, but why if he wanted to stay, didn't he just...Stay? Did Kaiden specifically order him to come with? Also let's deal with the fact that as a Major (on par with generals), Kaiden has authority over Shepard who is only a Commander, so why isn't Kaiden giving the orders? So then Liara shows up and after some fights remarks that "The major has become quite competant" or something..Wait, how does she know he's a Major? Nobody told her. I guess she's the Shadow Broker but is this really what she does with her time? Watching Kaiden for some reason?

And the list goes on and on and on. Some are debatable perhaps but all of them are things that bother me.

Twilight_guy:

CityofTreez:

Twilight_guy:
Bioshock. Your character has just regained his free will and is now free for the first time (in his life or since coming to Rapture) to do as he wishes and to not have to follow orders. You are immediately given orders and lead down linear paths for the rest of the game. (Less a plothole and more a more a narrative failure but still relevant).

And yet you're still not choosing your path, and you have no free will. You're still, in game terms, a slave despite everything that happened for the last ten minutes being about fixing that. Whether or not revenge was your only option and escape can occur only one way you're still being directed by somebody on a radio and following their commands. You haven't advanced at all.

So what was there to do? I'm really not seeing the problem. You couldn't leave. You have already killed or gone through all other protagonists, you had explored every area. The only thing left to do was to get back at the guy that you had been a slave to. I guess Tenenbaum could have asked what you wanted to do next, but I don't see the point.

Devoneaux:

We don't see a barracks. We see one room. One lone room with one bed. Why? If this is a barracks then why is it located in a high rise skyscraper type building? You can take the assumption of the court house if you like, it still doesn't make things any less confusing. Also, if he wasn't headed to his proceedings, then why even bring it up? What did Shepard do that necessitates proceedings anyway? I didn't play arrival, am I to assume that arrival happened anyway?

It's not a barracks it's Shepard's quarters. She's on lockdown awaiting trial because of either A. The Alpha Relay Incident if you did Arrival or B. Allying with Cerberus an avowed terrorist organization by both the Alliance and the Citadel Council. Or if you really want to think of how much crap she's in C. Both. The reason this is brought up is backstory purpose. If you are playing from ME2 you know that there were consequences for you siding with terrorists and (possibly) destroying an entire solar system. If you just started at ME3 you now know that Shepard isn't exactly the type of solider who plays by the rules all the time and it also allows the game to exposition dump for a bit.

The building you are in is Alliance Central Command on Earth and you are called to them because they are worried the Reapers have arrived as they are losing communication with other outposts. Heck this is actually explained in the dialouge. As Anderson walks her to the Admiral Council she flat out -asks- why they called for her. When Anderson can't answer her question or rather asks her back "Think it's the reapers?" She agrees it must be about the Reapers.

So Shepard and Anderson run into a building with a broken door and that stupid kid shows up. How? He was on a completely different building. Did he climb down that building, and climb up ours? Why would he do that? Why can't Shepard help him?

Firstly you move so far in the opening scene (with suggested elevator travel) when the Reapers attack you are probably on a different floor and a different side of the building, you then travel to another building and then another before you meet the kid. For all we know, that's the building he was playing on.

Why can Shepard not help the kid? Because the kid is scared, knows something horrible is happening, probably saw his family vaporized or eaten by cannibals. And if daddy and mommy can't help him, no one can. That's just my opinion though.

Also we heard him climbing around before, but now he just disappears without a sound. So then we see a dreadnought get blown up even though dreadnoughts aren't supposed to enter atmospheres like that I thought?

As far as the kid disappearing without a sound, artistic license to create a dramatic and also wtf moment.

The dreadnought has been admitted by writers to have been a lore oversight done for the sake of cool rather than accuracy. That could be considered an actual plot hole.

So then we're on the Normandy and oh hey Vega, why are you here? Why did you come with us? Did Kaiden say "Hey, Vega! Come with me on the Normandy!" I guess so, but why if he wanted to stay, didn't he just...Stay? Did Kaiden specifically order him to come with?

Vega was with Kaiden/Ash when you met with the Admiralty Board. After the attack, Anderson told Kaiden/Ash to prep the Normandy. I assume they just looked at Vega and went "Your with me." There's no reason to over think this as it's just a plot convenience; much like how Vega was your security guard for the 6 months you were on lockdown. Also realize that Vega acted like he didn't think the Normandy was going to leave Earth that it was instead staying after picking up Anderson and Shepard.

Also let's deal with the fact that as a Major (on par with generals), Kaiden has authority over Shepard who is only a Commander, so why isn't Kaiden giving the orders?

I got nothing on this one except for poor planning. They wanted to make it seem like time had passed between each game, so in ME2 Kaiden gets a promotion that makes him just below Shepard, in ME3 they give him another which basically puts him above her. Best explanation I can come up with is that by the time he was in position to give actual orders (Admirals order you off Earth and to Mars) he's already messed up and hospitalized.

As for you leading the ground team on Mars with him outranking you? Well you are still the superior combatant and have more experience leading ground forces due to the N7 training so he is probably just deferring to you.

Then by the time he rejoins your a Senior Spectre and outrank him technically as you were reinstated as a Staff Commander, a Spectre, and have been giving full diplomatic privileges by the Alliance (the last one was stated in the Reinstated e-mail)

So then Liara shows up and after some fights remarks that "The major has become quite competant" or something..Wait, how does she know he's a Major? Nobody told her. I guess she's the Shadow Broker but is this really what she does with her time? Watching Kaiden for some reason?

Liara has been working for the Alliance the last couple of months at the Mars cache. I'd assume she would be keeping her eye on Shepard as well as his known associates in he spare time. So she knows he's a Major (or that Ash is a LC.) Shepard doesn't know presumably because she's been on lockdown for 6 months and probably has just been reading the same three novels they gave her and can watch TV. No access to military records (this is confirmed when Vega tells her, "You read my service record it's all in there" and she points out that she hasn't because of the lockdown.)

And the list goes on and on and on. Some are debatable perhaps but all of them are things that bother me.

I get they bother you, and that's all well and good. But I've been fighting this battle on and off since the first day ME3 came out. Just because you don't understand it at first glance, or it bothers you does not make it a plot hole.

I'm not singling you out, over half the posts on this thread are more "Plot details I disliked" rather than plot holes. Something about a plot can not make sense to you or bother you and still not be a plot hole.

Devoneaux:

TheVampwizimp:

Devoneaux:
Okay I know there is more but this one in particular caught my attention.

Part of the job of a writer is to explain not just what the hero(s) are doing, but why. If the audience has to make assumptions on behalf of the story to cover a plot hole then the story is sloppy. What is particularly irritating about this is that the fix is incredibly simple. All we needed was one scene where Anderson goes "Damn, the door's jammed. We'll have to find another way." But because this is Mac Walters we're talking about, attention to details like this is beyond him.

Also, here's something to think of. When we see Shepard first he's looking at some kid from a room that he apparantly lived in based on the fact that there is bedroom stuff in the room. So okay Shepard has been staying here maybe? But wait, there's tons of people in military uniforms running about. So it's a barracks then and Shepard is just in an officer's quarters...Wait, there's a court room too? A court room that also has communications staff and and monitors and all sorts of things like that?...What is this building that has the combined functionality of military command center, courthouse, comms center and a place for keeping people under house arrest? Where is this?

You're right about that, it was an easy fix to an easy problem that was apparently overlooked.

But why can't one structure have different functions? It's got a barracks, which we see Shepard and Vega in, then they meet Anderson and the Virmire Survivor in the hallways, then they take an elevator. The elevator could lead anywhere else in the building. Where Shepard and Anderson decide to go is, as far as we can tell, a command center.

We seem to have made different assumptions about the purpose of this room. You call it a court house, but I call it a command center on the ground. We know Shepard is awaiting a trial, but no one said he/she was going to this proceeding; as I recall, Anderson just said that the Admirals wanted to speak to him/her. Then Shepard is taken to the Admirals in a room filled with displays and monitors and military equipment, which says command center to me. So all I see here is a large military structure that houses officers and serves as a headquarters for the Admirals in charge. Not a stretch to say this could really exist, and I saw no incongruity there.

We don't see a barracks. We see one room. One lone room with one bed. Why? If this is a barracks then why is it located in a high rise skyscraper type building? You can take the assumption of the court house if you like, it still doesn't make things any less confusing. Also, if he wasn't headed to his proceedings, then why even bring it up? What did Shepard do that necessitates proceedings anyway? I didn't play arrival, am I to assume that arrival happened anyway?

So Shepard and Anderson run into a building with a broken door and that stupid kid shows up. How? He was on a completely different building. Did he climb down that building, and climb up ours? Why would he do that? Why can't Shepard help him?
Also we heard him climbing around before, but now he just disappears without a sound. So then we see a dreadnought get blown up even though dreadnoughts aren't supposed to enter atmospheres like that I thought?

So then we're on the Normandy and oh hey Vega, why are you here? Why did you come with us? Did Kaiden say "Hey, Vega! Come with me on the Normandy!" I guess so, but why if he wanted to stay, didn't he just...Stay? Did Kaiden specifically order him to come with? Also let's deal with the fact that as a Major (on par with generals), Kaiden has authority over Shepard who is only a Commander, so why isn't Kaiden giving the orders? So then Liara shows up and after some fights remarks that "The major has become quite competant" or something..Wait, how does she know he's a Major? Nobody told her. I guess she's the Shadow Broker but is this really what she does with her time? Watching Kaiden for some reason?

And the list goes on and on and on. Some are debatable perhaps but all of them are things that bother me.

the reason kaiden folows shepard's comands when he clearly higher rank is because they are in different command structures. A comander in the navy is the equvilent of a major in any other service, just like a captain in the navy is the equivilent of a colonol.

Neronium:
I highly doubt that the military would allow Vault-Tec to get a hold of F.E.V.

I always thought Vault-Tec was above the law. What with their twisted experiments they don't seem to be burdened by ethics.

natster43:
Resident Evil 6, Leon and bitch fall constantly fall farther down, from a cliff, to a lab to a mine to catacombs to another type of mine/catacomb, and then slide down a water slide, only to fall into a lake that isn't underground, it makes no fucking sense as they have been falling so much they should be pretty damn far underground at that time.

It was part of Silent Hill (Six minutes in) :

ecoho:

the reason kaiden folows shepard's comands when he clearly higher rank is because they are in different command structures. A comander in the navy is the equvilent of a major in any other service, just like a captain in the navy is the equivilent of a colonol.

That'd be nice but by the lore of the setting it isn't true. The Alliance only uses one command structure:

But it may have been what the writers were thinking when they put it all together

RedDeadFred:
Borderlands 2. Why don't they just turn off the new you station? You die once, you're gone for good. Better yet, why wouldn't Jack put his DNA into it so he couldn't die (after all, he has a massive amount of money)?

This never really bothered me because I don't think you're supposed to take the story that seriously (even though I actually thought the story was very good) but it's still a pretty big plot hole. I guess you could just say it's simply a gameplay mechanic and isn't part of the actual story at all.

The first I think I can answer, in spoiler box form:

My be just guesswork, but it sorta makes sense...

DeimosMasque:
[quote="Devoneaux" post="9.397503.16232675"]snip

Why is Shepard's quarters in the central command area? Why is the central command area located on a high rise building in the first place? Where is this elevator? When is it ever alluded to?

As for the kid? Hate to tell you but you're simply not correct here. It's a completely different building. Shepard up to meeting this kid is on the roof of the building he started on, in fact he never actually leaves the building he started on until the explosion sends him tumbling down the side. (With no injuries, naturally)You can say it's possible that he somehow ended up on the side of the building closer to the kid, but then I can say it's equally possible that he ended up on the exact opposite side of the kid. Stories don't stand on "What could have happened" they stand on "What did and did not happen" A story does not stand on conjecture to cover up unanswered questions, inconsistencies ect.

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