"Heroics" that left a bad taste in your mouth

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Saviordd1:

bigfatcarp93:

Saviordd1:

This is implying Renegade/Paragon was anything other than "black v. white"

I mean, in the first game you have the option to slaughter a colony because renegade shepard just isn't feelin' the whole saving people thing today.

Um... no you don't? Seriously, when the fuck was this?

Feros, when you have the option (which is the renegade option) to go in guns blazing and shoot all of the colonists. Despite the fact you have knock out grenades and a melee attack.

Ah, right, my mistake. Though your initial post made it sound like you were describing Shep dropping a nuke on Terra Nova or something.

Two words...

"No Russian"

...although actually...
... I rather enjoyed that!

Anyways, it's really the only thing I can think of that fits the bill... Not really "heroics" but, hell, it left quite a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths didn't it

katana-409:
Jim Raynor killing Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2. I mean, you sent your best friend to prison in your stead, and then you kill him over a girl? Never liked Raynor as a character ever since -.-'

Right, but this is after it was revealed that her death would also mean the destruction of all life, and stuff. So yeah, maybe saving humanity (and Protisanity, and Zerganity) was a bit more important that Tychus.

Does Heroes the TV series count?

It started out promising but MAN, it really bit the tits around the second season.

I watched it up to the conclusion only to see how bad the trainwreck could get.

"It's like, how much more bad could this be? and the answer is... none, none more bad".

Captain Price. Shooting an unarmed and bound civilian prisoner? Why that's a war crime, mind you not the only one in COD4.

Saviordd1:

This is implying Renegade/Paragon was anything other than "black v. white"

But I never implied that, though . . .

Captcha: only way to be sure. Man, fuck off, Captcha. I don't need you playing devil's advocate.

pretty much all of walking dead
basically anything you do that might be considered heroic usually involves being a dick to someone else

kman123:
Dishonored really screwed up on the good/bad moral dilemma, seeing as the 'good' version of doing things is far, far worse than death. Selling someone into slavery for the rest of their life? Giving up that woman to that stalker dude was fucking creepy. I'd rather just kill her but nooooooooo I had to get the GOOD ending.

yeah, it should of been more individual from each mission. the killing of the triplet would have been good, but "rape island" would of been bad, even though she lives.

Tom_green_day:
When the guy in Far Cry 3 dumps his girlfriend. I thought she was his rock, the person meant to represent the side of him which was remaining sane? You can't just forget about her for the second half of the game or you're missing out a vital aspect of his story arc, him not knowing what to do about it and keeping himself on the fence.
He says it in such a bland voice, and then when he leaves he's like 'that wasn't as hard as I thought' Well obviously fekkin not if you didn't even feel a thing about it -.-

In context, that IS showing how the island (and its trippy hallucinogenic drugs) are tainting him and turning him into a tool of Citra. He was so consumed by hatred and a sense of belonging that his vision of what mattered was insanely clouded. It took the murder of *shall not spoil* to show him he was being used all along.

TheBelgianGuy:

katana-409:
Jim Raynor killing Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2. I mean, you sent your best friend to prison in your stead, and then you kill him over a girl? Never liked Raynor as a character ever since -.-'

Right, but this is after it was revealed that her death would also mean the destruction of all life, and stuff. So yeah, maybe saving humanity (and Protisanity, and Zerganity) was a bit more important that Tychus.

gyrobot:

katana-409:
Jim Raynor killing Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2. I mean, you sent your best friend to prison in your stead, and then you kill him over a girl? Never liked Raynor as a character ever since -.-'

Allowing her to die and eventually face a hopeless end that you may witness personally or try to save her and give a chance for hope at the light at the tunnel. Her death knell will be the beginning of the end.

Yeah, no I still don't buy it. Raynor could've at least figured out a way to get Tychus out of the damn suit. Especially if they could reverse engineer the Odin, etc.

On a side note, he was the first image we got of Starcraft 2. Why'd they decide to kill him? o_0

Tom_green_day:
When the guy in Far Cry 3 dumps his girlfriend. I thought she was his rock, the person meant to represent the side of him which was remaining sane? You can't just forget about her for the second half of the game or you're missing out a vital aspect of his story arc, him not knowing what to do about it and keeping himself on the fence.
He says it in such a bland voice, and then when he leaves he's like 'that wasn't as hard as I thought' Well obviously fekkin not if you didn't even feel a thing about it -.-

Uh... I thought he says "That was harder than I thought it would be."

It was the toughest moment he's had in the time I've been playing so far and its one of the first things he's done that hasn't involved shoving a hunting knife through a guys heart.

For whatever reason (I haven't finished the game) Jason appears to be literally a warrior. He can only become emotionally connected with violence and revenge. Trying to reach his GF on an emotional level is impossible because he needs the thrill.

Blah blah blah, thrill seeker before killer, blah blah, other stuff.

I'd be more descriptive but I gotta go >.>...

Super Quick Edit: She is a very blunt representation of humanity. He cannot connect with her on any meaningful level and her diversion from him represents the final vestige of his humanity leaving him.

Or that's what I got from it. I've maybe been reading too much into it but that's what all those Alice in Wonderland quotes seem to suggest to me. I'll be back later after I actually beat the game.

katana-409:

TheBelgianGuy:

katana-409:
Jim Raynor killing Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2. I mean, you sent your best friend to prison in your stead, and then you kill him over a girl? Never liked Raynor as a character ever since -.-'

Right, but this is after it was revealed that her death would also mean the destruction of all life, and stuff. So yeah, maybe saving humanity (and Protisanity, and Zerganity) was a bit more important that Tychus.

gyrobot:

katana-409:
Jim Raynor killing Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2. I mean, you sent your best friend to prison in your stead, and then you kill him over a girl? Never liked Raynor as a character ever since -.-'

Allowing her to die and eventually face a hopeless end that you may witness personally or try to save her and give a chance for hope at the light at the tunnel. Her death knell will be the beginning of the end.

Yeah, no I still don't buy it. Raynor could've at least figured out a way to get Tychus out of the damn suit. Especially if they could reverse engineer the Odin, etc.

On a side note, he was the first image we got of Starcraft 2. Why'd they decide to kill him? o_0

Vaas is on the cover of Far Cry III. Centrefold even. He IS Far Cry III.

I don't think Raynor had the facilities at his disposal at that point in time to counter the killswitch in a suit of tactical armour - being in the middle of a battlefield and all.

Also, Tychus had just proven at that very moment he valued his own life over the life of everything else. I'd have popped him too.

I hate my Saints Row character.

I don't think you understand, I HAAAAAAAAAAATE him.

With the fire of a thousand suns.

So I take great pleasure in the "Health Insurance Scam" sidequests.

Shockolate:
First thing to come to mind is fightning Ceaseless Discharge in Dark Souls, since I just killed him yesterday.

You can avoid fighting him if you have high vitality and the Dark Wood Grain Ring, but most people don't know that.

He isn't hostile until you provoke him by either A) Attacking him or B) Taking the suit of armor in his area.

There is an incredibly easy way to kill him in which you lure him out to deep pit, in which he'll jump over it to try and get to you. If you whack his hand enough times, he slips and falls into the pit, supposedly dying. He'll only do this if you've taken the armor.

My friends going crazy, confronting the tragedies of the past, forcing me to kill monsters with good intentions?

Dark Souls is not a happy game.

What about the bit where you kill Great Wolf Sif, who only attacked you because you were grave robbing his master's tomb?

Moira from Fallout 3 is portrayed as a sympathetic character who cheerfully sends you into a minefield, asks you to get radiation poisoning, and so on. She acts like a cheery cuckoolander, but that woman is a sadistic witch taking advantage of the Vault Dweller's utter naivete.

Speaking of, almost all the evil options for Fallout 3 require the kid from the Vault to basically walk out the door and become a sadistic, brutal sociopath immediately. There's no practical villainy or hard-nosed decisions made in a cruel world; it's straight up sociopathy for the evulz.

Miranda Lawson's attitude regarding Jack, especially since I brought her on the mission to Praggia. She saw the details first hands, then is like, "Oh, you've no reason to hate this organization." Right...

KotOR I, many of the dark side choices aren't "Dark Lord of the Sith", but the kind of choices a sadist who likes torturing animals might make. There was one which stood out; wounded wookies in the jungle. You would imagine a Dark Lord of the Sith might decide to heal them in exchange for service. Or maybe they'd put them out of their misery quickly, considering them too weak to bother with. Or just walk by with nothing but contempt. But no, your darkside character gets to pointlessly torture them and then brag about it as if (s)he had defeated them. Huh. Yeah.

Contaminating the Sacred Ashes in Dragon Age: Origins. Let me set the stage; imagine you found the mortal remains of someone who was half Mohammed, half Joan d'Arc. Imagine you had seen significant magical proof you really were in a sacred place. Imagine those ashes were a great quest to heal a leader, similar to the Grail quest of Arthurian myth. You can go ahead and despoil them. Really. Because that makes sense. Even if you didn't believe in the Maker before, you'd just seen a great deal that would make it likely for you to accept the story as true. And even if you still doubted it, it's the dominant faith in the world. And you're just going to contaminate the remains because a crazy cult out of Innsmouth Haven tells you to.

Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

Shockolate:
First thing to come to mind is fightning Ceaseless Discharge in Dark Souls, since I just killed him yesterday.

You can avoid fighting him if you have high vitality and the Dark Wood Grain Ring, but most people don't know that.

He isn't hostile until you provoke him by either A) Attacking him or B) Taking the suit of armor in his area.

There is an incredibly easy way to kill him in which you lure him out to deep pit, in which he'll jump over it to try and get to you. If you whack his hand enough times, he slips and falls into the pit, supposedly dying. He'll only do this if you've taken the armor.

My friends going crazy, confronting the tragedies of the past, forcing me to kill monsters with good intentions?

Dark Souls is not a happy game.

From the same game killing quelaag made me feel bad after finding out about the fair lady. She was probably just

Also sif, considering he is just guarding the grave of an old friend and comrade. Doesn't help that when he is near death he limps, and still fights in vain.

I tend to fly close air support in planetside 2 and I feel bad when I kill someone who is battle rank 1... well I feel bad when I kill a br 1 no matter what since its usually after they drop pod in and that is how the game starts, it just drop pods you into a big battle with no instruction, so killing a br 1 who just dropped in means your probably killing someone who just started playing and I don't like doing that.

Killing Saint Astraea in Demon's Souls.
Killing Sif (especially after seeing the cutscene if you play the dlc first), Ceaseless Discharge, Gwyndolin, various hollow npcs (especially Solaire and Laurentius) and Quelaag from Dark Souls.

AgentLampshade:
Snow. Fucking. Villiers. Dumbass self-proclaimed "hero" and complete tool who even says "heroes don't need plans." Argh!

Every single thing he does isn't thought through at all.

Yes! Thank you. Finally, someone else that believes it. He was by far the worst character in the entire game for this reason alone. Well that and he's absent for most of the game and by the time he's there to stay, Fang already has it covered.

Worgen:
I tend to fly close air support in planetside 2 and I feel bad when I kill someone who is battle rank 1... well I feel bad when I kill a br 1 no matter what since its usually after they drop pod in and that is how the game starts, it just drop pods you into a big battle with no instruction, so killing a br 1 who just dropped in means your probably killing someone who just started playing and I don't like doing that.

I feel bad in PS2 when I shoot down an enemy fighter, but the pilot survives, then I chase the pilot down and hit him with rocket pods.

Especially when it happens after an awesome dogfight or chase. Feels very unsporting. "Ohhh no, I'm not satisfied by shooting your plane to pieces. I'm going to blow you away while you're helpless on the ground."

I still do it of course. It's easy XP and daddy needs his cert points.

thedoclc:
Speaking of, almost all the evil options for Fallout 3 require the kid from the Vault to basically walk out the door and become a sadistic, brutal sociopath immediately. There's no practical villainy or hard-nosed decisions made in a cruel world; it's straight up sociopathy for the evulz.

I could never play an evil character in Fallout 3 because it just made NO sense considering that Qui Gon was.. sorry, The Baron if Ibi-- sorry, Schindler - sorry, you know what I mean. He was your father. And somehow you turned into a prick? Sorry, no. Made ZERO sense.

thedoclc:
Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

But what if you had hemorrhoids? What if the person BEFORE you had hemorrhoids? Would you still let them heal you with it?

Capatcha: wisdom teeth

Would you use the shroud on your wisdom teeth after someone used it on their hemorrhoids?

theemporer:
Killing Saint Astraea in Demon's Souls.
Killing Sif (especially after seeing the cutscene if you play the dlc first), Ceaseless Discharge, Gwyndolin, various hollow npcs (especially Solaire and Laurentius) and Quelaag from Dark Souls.

I chalked most of the killing as mercy killings. These beings have been stuck in one spot for an eternity, sometimes they need a push, they even ask for it by attacking first. I know this sounds really sociopathic, but think about the zombie-dragon enemies who must cling to a ledge to protect some treasure, constantly corroding and eroding away, until a brave knight can send them packing. Quelaag really hit me hard though. I found her sister for free pyromancy and a bonfire outside the demon ruins, I left with: a Chaos servant covenant; a much reduced humanity tally; and a bucket of tears (and awesome lava pyromancy).

Abomination:

thedoclc:
Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

But what if you had hemorrhoids? What if the person BEFORE you had hemorrhoids? Would you still let them heal you with it?

Capatcha: wisdom teeth

Would you use the shroud on your wisdom teeth after someone used it on their hemorrhoids?

"You have hemorrhoids? Get out of line. We're busy with the inoperable tumors, patients with severe sepsis, folks with severe genetic diseases, and untreatable infections. We can take care of hemorrhoids fairly easily."

Jokes aside, that had to be one of Bioware's least sensible "moral" choices. It seemed to be included to have some sort of binary system...one where every major plot point could be solved one of two ways...hmm.

The entirety of Just Cause 2, the "Just Cause" being destroying an entire country's infrastructure for a very unspecific and forgettable reason, killing at least 13 billion civilians along the way, while the government soldiers do nothing to oppress the locals whatsoever.

And in a lesser way The Saboteur, you're killing Nazis and they sometimes harass people and line people up against walls and all the evil Nazi things, but the way you combat them is by setting explosives dangerously close to public streets, have shootouts with them in the street, and driving around very fast and accidentally running over civilians. Not so much malicious as Just Cause is, but more of a complete lack of subtlety and consideration for basic safety rules.

EDIT: The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

thedoclc:

Contaminating the Sacred Ashes in Dragon Age: Origins. Let me set the stage; imagine you found the mortal remains of someone who was half Mohammed, half Joan d'Arc. Imagine you had seen significant magical proof you really were in a sacred place. Imagine those ashes were a great quest to heal a leader, similar to the Grail quest of Arthurian myth. You can go ahead and despoil them. Really. Because that makes sense. Even if you didn't believe in the Maker before, you'd just seen a great deal that would make it likely for you to accept the story as true. And even if you still doubted it, it's the dominant faith in the world. And you're just going to contaminate the remains because a crazy cult out of Innsmouth Haven tells you to.

Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

I cleansed the ashes with the holy blood of my god. But then, playing as a dragon worshipper is pretty much par for the course for me.

thedoclc:

Abomination:

thedoclc:
Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

But what if you had hemorrhoids? What if the person BEFORE you had hemorrhoids? Would you still let them heal you with it?

Capatcha: wisdom teeth

Would you use the shroud on your wisdom teeth after someone used it on their hemorrhoids?

"You have hemorrhoids? Get out of line. We're busy with the inoperable tumors, patients with severe sepsis, folks with severe genetic diseases, and untreatable infections. We can take care of hemorrhoids fairly easily."

Jokes aside, that had to be one of Bioware's least sensible "moral" choices. It seemed to be included to have some sort of binary system...one where every major plot point could be solved one of two ways...hmm.

For a Dwarf Commoner who has a very bleak view of the world, finds kinship in Sten and Morrigan, and finds the idea of acquiring immense power for what he views as a trivial task, desecrating the ashes was very much a sensible move. He didn't give two shits about Andraste's ashes. It's not evil, it's just business. The ashes were more use to him desecrated than pure.

rhizhim:
can we pick movies too?

Yeah, but Django was not all that heroic anyway. He made some far more questionable decisions elsewhere and was more of an anti-hero. Besides, she seemed pretty complacent, if not supportive, of all of the stuff that was happening at Candieland so I get why Django would be pissed.

RaeveSpam:
I had a weird moment playing Battlefield 3 multiplayer once. I've spent countless of hours on a lot of FPSs so I should be quite desentized. However I was playing this match and manage to flank about 4 enemy guys, I thought "awesome, they haven't even noticed me", and started firing my G3 at the poor bastards standing 3 meters away. They fell quickly, got all four with my 20 magazine. I should feel awesome for breaking their after my team started rushing forward, but I actually felt bad. The poor bastards didn't have a chance I slaughtered them, didn't even give them a chance to surrender.

believe me dude, don't feel bad, they would've cut you down and gang tea-bagged you without a second thought

LarenzoAOG:
The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

i guess once you go black, you can never really go back

Ix Rebound:

LarenzoAOG:
The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

i guess once you go black, you can never really go back

I respect you.

thedoclc:

Abomination:

thedoclc:
Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

But what if you had hemorrhoids? What if the person BEFORE you had hemorrhoids? Would you still let them heal you with it?

Capatcha: wisdom teeth

Would you use the shroud on your wisdom teeth after someone used it on their hemorrhoids?

"You have hemorrhoids? Get out of line. We're busy with the inoperable tumors, patients with severe sepsis, folks with severe genetic diseases, and untreatable infections. We can take care of hemorrhoids fairly easily."

Jokes aside, that had to be one of Bioware's least sensible "moral" choices. It seemed to be included to have some sort of binary system...one where every major plot point could be solved one of two ways...hmm.

Their moral choices were always pretty terribly slanted though. If you were to be 'evil' you were evil for the sake of it, not for any substansial gain.

Deals with demons were the only real 'evil' options and then they weren't universally evil unless you identify demons as having to always be evil because they're demons... which is subjective in itself. Sacrificing someone for personal power is evil but you hardly ever got those options. You just got "Be a hero" and "Be a dick".

theemporer:
Killing Saint Astraea in Demon's Souls.
Killing Sif (especially after seeing the cutscene if you play the dlc first), Ceaseless Discharge, Gwyndolin, various hollow npcs (especially Solaire and Laurentius) and Quelaag from Dark Souls.

Sadly Sif is honorbound to protect Artorias' grave from any and all intruders, including his good friend. Saddest fight ever ;-;
Killing Quelaag is self defense. Killing her sister though? That makes you a monster

LarenzoAOG:
The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

There were plenty of times I killed an innocent or did some other sadistic thing and Kreia scolded me for it. Shes fine with cruelty to your own advantage but senseless cruelty is wrong

Some of you seem to be missing the point with Dishonored. The game never says the pacifist ending is the "good" ending. Merely a non-lethal way to deal with your targets.
The game tells you right from the start that the less people you kill, the less chaotic the world will become, so naturally if you murder everyone you possibly can, people will panic and Dunwall will become more chaotic.
However if these people just go missing mysteriously then people wont panic, they'll worry, but they wont start rioting or anything.
The pacifist ending is portrayed as "good" because you did what was best for Dunwall and it's people, not because of the way you handled your revenge

Doing the Clan Wars mission in Borderlands 2, as things were escalating between the two clans who seemingly had a truce going on before you got involved, I was ready to run over Ellie and call it quits.

I'm sure that two clans had done some messed up shit off screen, but still you're doing some messed up shit on screen.

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