The State of PC gaming

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Zachary Amaranth:

SkarKrow:

I have steam with a small library of games on it, but it is definately DRM and there are some nasty downsides to Steam.
Contrary to what people may believe Valve is not the gaming messiah.

This won't end well. RUN! I'll cover you!

I agree that Steam is not the end-all and Valve isn't a messiah. Unfortunately, Gabe figured out the Apple process. You build it as a lifestyle, not a product, and you can be as big of a monster as you want. People will still flock to you.

I shall never flee! I ate the Mera-Mera no Mi, the flames have no effect on me!

Yeah that's pretty much it, I have no real issue with Steam but there are a lot of people out there for whom Steam is the be all and end all of gaming. Yeah they have good sales, but outside of that Steam isn't really anything special, and if you read it's terms and conditions there's some nice evil stuff there to be seen, like the fact that if they shut your account down for whatever reason your games are gone.

I can safely say I've never paid more than 15 for a Steam game and never will, if I'm gonna pre-order or buy brand-new outside of a steam sale I'm gonna buy a physical copy (surprisingly it can be cheaper) and you can bet your ass I'm checking green man gaming first, and even gog and amazon I'll check for PC games.

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

I have steam with a small library of games on it, but it is definately DRM and there are some nasty downsides to Steam.
Contrary to what people may believe Valve is not the gaming messiah.

I always enjoy the arguments that Valve's steam-box-fixed-system-that-isn't-a-console-despite-being-a-console of myth, will come from the heavens to the console market and vanquish all competitors, because Valve totally knows exactly what it is doing in a market it has never participated in.

Also, they need to count to 3, or that Steambox thing won't be around for more than 10 years.

Oh I disagree. I think the Steambox WILL release in the next two years... in beta. It'll stay in beta for half a decade before finally seeing an official release.

Because if there's one thing Valve loves more than taking their sweet old time, it's Beta.

Ah that is true, I don't see it being a huge success either way. Console gamers don't care, PC enthusiasts seem to think people are gonna buy it, though PC enthusiasts are still gonna just build their rigs rather than buy a fixed system.

To me it's market is what I refer to as the Village Shop market.

While we're having a dig at Valve; I really don't like Half-Life 2.

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

Oh I disagree. I think the Steambox WILL release in the next two years... in beta. It'll stay in beta for half a decade before finally seeing an official release.

Because if there's one thing Valve loves more than taking their sweet old time, it's Beta.

Ah that is true, I don't see it being a huge success either way. Console gamers don't care, PC enthusiasts seem to think people are gonna buy it, though PC enthusiasts are still gonna just build their rigs rather than buy a fixed system.

To me it's market is what I refer to as the Village Shop market.

While we're having a dig at Valve; I really don't like Half-Life 2.

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

I hate Team Fortress 2. I played it for a while, and y'know it didn't really seem all that different from the vast majority of multiplayer shooters out there. It just had a prettier aesthetic. At the end of it it was still a hollow cycle of spawn/kill/die and the chat was still full of toss pots arguing over who's mother was fattest.

PC gaming can't die as long as PCs (That includes macs) are a major part of people's life. An average home PC is usually an upgrade away from being a good enough gaming machine.

It seems that PC gaming is prospering in recent years, and that's probably due to the current console generation coming to an end. We might see a decline in the first two or three years of the next generation, but it should be fine once those consoles would become obsolete.

KingsGambit:
The only light in the tunnel for PC gaming is Kickstarter. I suspect that will be the future of PC gaming as crowd-funding brings to gamers actual good PC games which Ubi, EA, Activision and the rest can't be arsed to make anymore, instead giving us UE3 bland shooter after bland shooter, all designed for "mass market appeal". Fuck the mass market, give me back my niche games.

Really? Because I've got a ton of good games on my PC without crowdfunding. In fact, most of them are indie. So where's the problem?

SkarKrow:

I shall never flee! I ate the Mera-Mera no Mi, the flames have no effect on me!

Yeah that's pretty much it, I have no real issue with Steam but there are a lot of people out there for whom Steam is the be all and end all of gaming. Yeah they have good sales, but outside of that Steam isn't really anything special, and if you read it's terms and conditions there's some nice evil stuff there to be seen, like the fact that if they shut your account down for whatever reason your games are gone.

I can safely say I've never paid more than 15 for a Steam game and never will, if I'm gonna pre-order or buy brand-new outside of a steam sale I'm gonna buy a physical copy (surprisingly it can be cheaper) and you can bet your ass I'm checking green man gaming first, and even gog and amazon I'll check for PC games.

Agreed. I bought quite a few games from Steam in various sales. I've got enough games that I've not yet played them all, though I know I will. Steam isn't really that competitive and as many people pointed out on the Escapist before me, you can often get the same prices elsewhere without Steam sales. Its ToU isn't really much different from the one EA had for Origin. You know, the one everyone threw a fit about. When it's pointed out, people make excuses as to why one is okay and the other isn't for doing the same thing.

Still, Steam is handy and not completely evil, either. If I truly hated it, I wouldn't buy through them. However, they're one of the reasons I dread the DD era: the last thing they need is more power in the PC market.

Zachary Amaranth:

KingsGambit:
The only light in the tunnel for PC gaming is Kickstarter. I suspect that will be the future of PC gaming as crowd-funding brings to gamers actual good PC games which Ubi, EA, Activision and the rest can't be arsed to make anymore, instead giving us UE3 bland shooter after bland shooter, all designed for "mass market appeal". Fuck the mass market, give me back my niche games.

Really? Because I've got a ton of good games on my PC without crowdfunding. In fact, most of them are indie. So where's the problem?

SkarKrow:

I shall never flee! I ate the Mera-Mera no Mi, the flames have no effect on me!

Yeah that's pretty much it, I have no real issue with Steam but there are a lot of people out there for whom Steam is the be all and end all of gaming. Yeah they have good sales, but outside of that Steam isn't really anything special, and if you read it's terms and conditions there's some nice evil stuff there to be seen, like the fact that if they shut your account down for whatever reason your games are gone.

I can safely say I've never paid more than 15 for a Steam game and never will, if I'm gonna pre-order or buy brand-new outside of a steam sale I'm gonna buy a physical copy (surprisingly it can be cheaper) and you can bet your ass I'm checking green man gaming first, and even gog and amazon I'll check for PC games.

Agreed. I bought quite a few games from Steam in various sales. I've got enough games that I've not yet played them all, though I know I will. Steam isn't really that competitive and as many people pointed out on the Escapist before me, you can often get the same prices elsewhere without Steam sales. Its ToU isn't really much different from the one EA had for Origin. You know, the one everyone threw a fit about. When it's pointed out, people make excuses as to why one is okay and the other isn't for doing the same thing.

Still, Steam is handy and not completely evil, either. If I truly hated it, I wouldn't buy through them. However, they're one of the reasons I dread the DD era: the last thing they need is more power in the PC market.

Yeah only a fool won't shop around for the best price, frankly. Terms of Use arse often cruel to the consumer, Valve isn't evil for Steam, but it's no angel either, it's the same thing as Origin really, the only difference is EA's marketing gobshites aren't very popular at all.

That era concerns me deeply, publisher dictated prices? Can't fucking wait for 50 PC games and 70 console games. One glance at the prices year old games go onto the PlayStation store for should say all that needs to be said about concerns for the Digital future (which I think is many years off still).

PC gaming is fine.. and always have been.. just the consoles overshadowing sometimes with the "uuuh look at our fancy new toys!!!" :)

PC gaming.. we are doing aaaalrright ;)

Doom972:
PC gaming can't die as long as PCs (That includes macs) are a major part of people's life. An average home PC is usually an upgrade away from being a good enough gaming machine.

This touches on points made by both Bob and Jimothy. But first, I'd point out that it can die if people don't want to put the time and effort into making it a gaming machine.

Don't get me wrong, a decent part of my income comes off of people who want me to install their hardware for them, so I'm fine with people wanting to and not having the tech savvy, but not everyone is going to want to do even that. People may not want to do that upgrade. At that point, PC gaming could ostensibly go bye-bye.

Now, Jimothy's "irony of PC gaming" video points out that some of the best (his words) PC games are games almost anyone can run. And again, those games have a specific market with PC gaming. I'm not sure I would argue the "best" games can be played by anyone, but I own a decent caltogue of games that can be played with my modest computer that still lacks a dedicated video card (I've been upgrading when I've had time and money, but it's not my biggest priority). There's a lot of games out there that should be accessible to pretty much all. That is why PC gaming will have trouble dying. EA and Ubisoft and Activision can play "the shiniest turd" until the end of days, but "lesser" games can actually thrive on PC without such antics.

Bob makes an argument for idiot-proof modularity for PCs, which is more or less not going to happen, but the idea is an interesting one. This would mean that the question of "could" would no longer be an issue, because you could go out and buy the "for dummies" version if you wanted. It would also mean less business for me, but it's still an interesting concept. Time is still my biggest enemy when I install new parts on my PC, and I know what I'm doing. It's a slog for me, but it's a bloody brick wall for others. The market could effectively tear down that wall through user-friendly modularity, and then even high-end gaming could be just a couple parts away. Easily swapped parts that might actually incentivise people.

And, as Bob put it, "everybody wins."

I feel most people would enjoy PC gaming if they would properly invest in a computer dedicated to playing games(to which will be able to do MUCH more than just video games such as video editing, running 3d modeling software, and not to mention run multiple applications for your own personal business or home finances).

I will say that while it is hard to build a computer from scratch your average consumer can certainly benefit from buying a pre-built rig or hire someone to build a computer for them instead of buying a computer straight from their local retailer.

As of this moment, there are over six million people actively using Steam.

I think PC gaming is doing just dandy, thank-you-very-much.

Every time there's discussion about pc gaming it's as if it's mostly done by people completely cut off from pc gaming and only playing on consoles or something else. I mean, something wrong with pc gaming? I've got no idea what you mean.

FFP2:

TheKasp:

I can only talk from my subjective viewpoint (and thus it holds no mreit) but it would take me less time to get a cracked console and pirated games right now that it would take me to download a 4gb game and nearly everyone I know who plays games on the XBox360 has a cracked one.

I could never risk that though. There's way too much iffy stuff and it's not worth the effort plus MS and Sony can lock your console... PC, not so much.

The Witcher 2 sold 1 million on PC and was pirated around 5 million times... that would put off any dev.

If they have DRM it affects the legit customer. If they don't then they get the shit pirated out of 'em. That's why PC gaming isn't what it used to be.

There is literally zero risk involved in pirating at consoles (well, except you are a moron who also seeds like my brother who got caught - but this is just acquiring software). Get a used / baned console, let it crack for a few bucks / euros and voila, you are ready to go and the entry costs are low as fuck.

The Witcher 2 numbers were estimated guesses pulled out of their arses...

The big problem with console piracy is... that no one seems to give a fuck because the manufacturers still get the money for the hardware one way or another (the used / banned console belonged to someone who still bought it). That is the only reason I can think of why people still think that piracy is lesser of a problem on consoles. But may I point out that about every big titles AAA leak happens on the 360? This is not some legal game they acquire, it is a pirated copy, and yet piracy numbers of consoles are nearly ever talked about.

This is sadly also the reason why "I would argue" it. I won't state that this is a fact, I work of the few numbers I saw and my knowledge of the console piracy market.

Zachary Amaranth:
Really? Because I've got a ton of good games on my PC without crowdfunding. In fact, most of them are indie.

This is making my point for me.

PC gaming is doing fine although I wouldn't say we are quite back to the heady days of the PS2 era.

Having been a PC gamer since 2000 I know that generally PC gaming provides the best gaming experience by and large. However the problem with PC gaming is identity. Back in the PS2 era PC gaming had a good identity, it was the place for FPS and RTS with consoles doing their own thing with Japanese / arcade gaming. However since MS entered the fray gaming on different platforms has become pretty much the same. Consoles provide a close to PC gaming experience without any of the old PC gaming hassles. The gaming experience might not be as good as a real PC game, but it's good enough for the CoD loving mainstream.

And this is my problem with gaming in general, it's all multiplat games and very little exclusives that play to the platforms strengths and aren't held back by other platforms. As everyone knows the consoles and AAA industry is often their own worst enemy. The console manufacturers are happy to stick with old hardware and retail models while Steam and PC stores are increasingly better and more competitive at selling games and been pro active in creating interest in new gaming experiences. MS is the worst of the bunch by far with their shitty dashboard, backwards digital downloads anti indie / niche practices and the complete lack of sales and marketing. Increasingly the 360 is becoming a wasteland for none FPS and Sports games as ppl interested in other games jump to other platforms for those games and don't bother paying for Live locking them from all MP making it even harder for remaining to find ppl to play with in anything other than CoD and Fifa.

Also there are the big AAA publishers always shooting themselves in the foot. How most of them jumped from PC to the XBox years ago only been so kind to give PC gamers the odd shitty console port. However the AAA industry is no longer the land of milk and honey like it was five years ago. Milking the mainstream console gamer with a never ending deluge of shitty sequels that treat the gamer as a 5year old thicky has nurtured some very bad habits in their customers. Instead of gamers who buy a large selection of varied games like most of us on this forum still do. They have changed their buying and playing habits to something more like a MMO gamer who just plays one game and nothing else. That's why AAAs with their DLC and game mechanics are designed to hook ppl into playing them over the long term, F2p and shitty micro transactions is the next logical step in modern gaming as just getting someone to stop playing WoW or CoD and play something else is most the battle. Thats why every publisher apart from Activistion is running around like a headless chicken wondering how the hell they can survive in such a market.

Since community is more important than ever, it's often the lack of community that spells doom for most other MP games that are niche. Atleast until MS and Sony become more pro-active and implement cross platform play and better ways to find other gamers with similar tastes.

So like the great console crash of the 80s, there's an opportunity for computer games to step in, back then it was the UK home computing boom time and now it the PC and non AAA industry that is taking up the slack and provide an alternative for those who are sick with western AAA console gaming. Although the old guard of EA and MicroSoft are trying to do their best and fuck everything up with their greed. (Origin exclusives and Windows 8)

That said PC gaming has another threat on the horizon, that of the tablet as an increasing number of ppl stop buying PC desktops and buy tablets instead. Windows 8 will have made the threat much much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCs07FmjBC0&list=UUpf0HFUmqDTnUY0fgaLqnFA&index=2

This vid is interesting as it also mentions the problems with the industry as a whole.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1M4OSMZFwU

I purchased a gaming PC about month ago and the only time I will ever touch an Xbox again is to play the new Halo. I am loving my PC. Even though the starting cost might be higher than purchasing an Xbox, things will even out because of cheaper games and not having to pay for Xbox Live. You can get so much more content on the PC for cheaper because of Steam's sales and digital downloads, and not to mention mods which add immense value to games. Oh and the graphics, which blow the consoles out of the water.

PC master race.

PC gaming is fine, Bob is talking out of his ass.
Seriously go look at the motherboards/cases/parts out there; stuff has gotten more and more idiot proof. I just bought a bunch of a new parts a few months ago and I was floored that damn near everything was color coded and labeled on the mother board. Hell even my new case barely had any screws everything had a plastic snap in. Heck I still remember manuals for the PC being massive books, my new one was basically a giant fold out because the thing is programmed for you to hook it up to the net and it downloads its own damn drivers, the same with my graphics card. The card is like 2 years old and on every other occasion I boot up my PC and its like "Hey a new version of your graphics driver is available, do you want to install it?"

Just a note: I didn't think any online videos could get even schlockier than entry videos from That Guy With The Glasses....Bob sure proved that wrong.

I saw one of your sources was the game overthinker, that stopped me right quick. I think it's alive, but needs far more... How do I put it, credibility. Because honestly, in my 2 years of being a PC gamer, I've had so much more fun than I ever did on console.

Today I picked up Mario Baseball, put it in my Wii, and started it up in seconds. Then I paused my 2 gig download of Eye so that I could watch videos on the internet. This is the main drawback to PC gaming. Other than the TV thing. We're not in an age where everyone has lightning fast internet and can download a game quickly, install it quickly, and PLAY it quickly. The games are cheaper, and the start up cost, if you have a PC already, is much the same. But games have the convenience factor going for them.

However, this is changing. Console install times, online updates on consoles, shitty publisher antics, distribution, nickel and diming for games as WELL as high prices--almost non-existent on the PC--modification ability...consoles are starting to become just as inconvenient while not possessing the same advantages as PCs do. As soon as this goes downloadable, as soon as we all feel like we can stop putting games on shelves, the PC might just take it.

Computers can now easily play most games that come out without any upgrades. They have a wider library of games! Can you imagine how little hassle it would be to get publishers to put out older games on the PC if it was the primary gaming console of choice? They don't have to pay much of anyone anything except the people who make it. They keep the rights. They get the profit. Just yesterday, I played about 15 amazing games that were free on the PC that were made by amateur game designers. I plugged in my PC to my tv, picked up a controller, and I had fun with interesting, innovative, free games. There have great communities, too. It's easy to communicate on PC. They're COMPUTERS. I can talk to my friends on Steam, browse the net and play some music while I play, and things of that nature. Consoles are specialized gaming computers, essentially, but they're becoming worse than your basic PC, and they cannot hope to compete if they continue in this direction.

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

Ah that is true, I don't see it being a huge success either way. Console gamers don't care, PC enthusiasts seem to think people are gonna buy it, though PC enthusiasts are still gonna just build their rigs rather than buy a fixed system.

To me it's market is what I refer to as the Village Shop market.

While we're having a dig at Valve; I really don't like Half-Life 2.

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

I hate Team Fortress 2. I played it for a while, and y'know it didn't really seem all that different from the vast majority of multiplayer shooters out there. It just had a prettier aesthetic. At the end of it it was still a hollow cycle of spawn/kill/die and the chat was still full of toss pots arguing over who's mother was fattest.

Team Fortress gets by on being free and Valve fans. No different from any first person shooter, online or offline

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

I hate Team Fortress 2. I played it for a while, and y'know it didn't really seem all that different from the vast majority of multiplayer shooters out there. It just had a prettier aesthetic. At the end of it it was still a hollow cycle of spawn/kill/die and the chat was still full of toss pots arguing over who's mother was fattest.

Team Fortress gets by on being free and Valve fans. No different from any first person shooter, online or offline

Exactly the same, screaming 12 year old shits and all! :D reminds me of CoD4.

TheKasp:

There is literally zero risk involved in pirating at consoles (well, except you are a moron who also seeds like my brother who got caught - but this is just acquiring software). Get a used / baned console, let it crack for a few bucks / euros and voila, you are ready to go and the entry costs are low as fuck.

The Witcher 2 numbers were estimated guesses pulled out of their arses...

The big problem with console piracy is... that no one seems to give a fuck because the manufacturers still get the money for the hardware one way or another (the used / banned console belonged to someone who still bought it). That is the only reason I can think of why people still think that piracy is lesser of a problem on consoles. But may I point out that about every big titles AAA leak happens on the 360? This is not some legal game they acquire, it is a pirated copy, and yet piracy numbers of consoles are nearly ever talked about.

This is sadly also the reason why "I would argue" it. I won't state that this is a fact, I work of the few numbers I saw and my knowledge of the console piracy market.

I don't know much about console piracy so I'm just gonna trust what you're saying:)

The piracy numbers weren't estimated by CD Projekt, some torrent news site did an article on the most pirated games and TW2 was near the top. They used actual numbers gathered from the torrent data itself or something like that.

I think devs don't complain about console piracy because it's nothing compared to the numbers on PC. Plus they have to waste additional resources optimzing and porting.

FFP2:

I don't know much about console piracy so I'm just gonna trust what you're saying:)

I can add something about how console piracy functions later on.

The piracy numbers weren't estimated by CD Projekt, some torrent news site did an article on the most pirated games and TW2 was near the top. They used actual numbers gathered from the torrent data itself or something like that.

No, the 4.5 million number was an estimation. There were numbers provided for 2011 for the most pirated games and they also included console numbers which seem to be smaller but I'd like to add that later on. Witcher 2 was not in the top lists of which every game had more than 3 million downloads.

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-times-cd-projekt-6346876

The first link are the numbers, the second is the claim from CD Project Red.

I think devs don't complain about console piracy because it's nothing compared to the numbers on PC. Plus they have to waste additional resources optimzing and porting.

I think it just seems that way if they ignore how console piracy works. It functions a little bit different than PC piracy. PC piracy: I google, download for me, play. Maybe share it between a few friends but overall if I can load it so can they and this mentality makes 1 download in most cases just one (for statistical accuracy add some random numbers after the point) pirated copy.

Console piracy is a little different. First of you need a cracked console. The guys doing that do it for a small fee of (a quick google search of one guy who went out with it) 40 british pound (do the math for the currency of your choice). But they also sell the pirated copies. Many, many people who pirate just get the games already burned onto DVDs from the cracker of choice for 1-5$ a game. It is a logical step for the people cracking consoles. Downloading and buying DVD-roms costs next to nothing and they add a little something to their profit. In countries that (for a lack of a better wording) lack decent support from game publishers there are stores that just outright sell only pirated copies of those games. Overall it just boils down to convenience for both offender (the cracker and seller) as well as the client (the one buying the pirated copies). In console piracy one download equals more than one pirated copy.

If we look at this from a financial standpoint: Console games are more expensive. A pirated console game would (from a hypothetical standpoint) hurt every party involved in the legit copy more than a pirated PC game simply because numbers (licencing fees, developer, publisher and store / platform that sells it).

Based on that I really don't get how many publishers seem to ignore the console piracy market, fighting the used games market (unlike pirated copies a used copy still equals one sale of the game! They may get less per person enjoying the game and there may be problems with shady tactics of some individual stores but they still get money) and harping on the piracy numbers on the PC. Yes, they are bigger. Because piracy on the PC does work in a different way.

I might also add: I have little evidence to add for this beyond personal experience with the people who do that kind of stuff in my city. I compare peeps who pirate for the PC with peeps who have cracked consoles and their habits of getting the games and just expand this onwards because this seems quite logical for me.

Just an edit to the ressource part:

How? The game is developed and they add another market that has nearly equal the buying power as the other platforms. Porting is not all that expensive and as long as the port is not shit then the porting costs are sure to be covered as well as additional profits added. I would just point to Alan Wake as an example for that.

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

Oh I disagree. I think the Steambox WILL release in the next two years... in beta. It'll stay in beta for half a decade before finally seeing an official release.

Because if there's one thing Valve loves more than taking their sweet old time, it's Beta.

Ah that is true, I don't see it being a huge success either way. Console gamers don't care, PC enthusiasts seem to think people are gonna buy it, though PC enthusiasts are still gonna just build their rigs rather than buy a fixed system.

To me it's market is what I refer to as the Village Shop market.

While we're having a dig at Valve; I really don't like Half-Life 2.

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

Ah well, there shall always be people who will hate the game I love, but unlike others I respect your opinions unless you have a horrible reason.

Bhaalspawn:

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:

While we're taking digs at Valve and throwing firecrackers down a fanboy hole, I really hated Team Fortress 2

I hate Team Fortress 2. I played it for a while, and y'know it didn't really seem all that different from the vast majority of multiplayer shooters out there. It just had a prettier aesthetic. At the end of it it was still a hollow cycle of spawn/kill/die and the chat was still full of toss pots arguing over who's mother was fattest.

Team Fortress gets by on being free and Valve fans. No different from any first person shooter, online or offline

There is a reason why TF2 is so successful, and that it is more relaxed than other FPS, it is the only game that has made Classes work, and has a good horde mode without zombies (I'm sick of devs thinking that the only way they can make horde mode is through zombies). If any of you guys know a good PC game with a zombie-less horde mode/game. Tell me, because I like those games.

SkarKrow:

That era concerns me deeply, publisher dictated prices? Can't fucking wait for 50 PC games and 70 console games. One glance at the prices year old games go onto the PlayStation store for should say all that needs to be said about concerns for the Digital future (which I think is many years off still).

Well, with American ISPs still fighting to not have to actually provide the services we pay for, I'm pretty sure the DD era will take some time to really take over, but I fear we're on the cusp.

So far the digital age has been unprecedented in stripping consumer rights, so I'm not looking forward to it.

KingsGambit:
This is making my point for me.

You just insisted crowdsourcing (Kickstarter) was necessary, a light at the end of the tunnel. I demonstrated otherwise. That's not making your point.

Unless your point is something like "Kickstarter will have almost no impact in terms of quality gaming's continued existence," in which case you said it very poorly.

If it's a statement on the quality of indie games, then I can only react thus:

IMO

PC gaming is better, but being hindered by consoles. games are being made for very dated technology and when it comes to PC all we get are minor improvements. It's so bad EA have come out and said Dead Space 3 on PC will be the exact same as the console game with no improvements. There are exceptions (Borderlands 2 was great port) but they are becoming few and far between. It's also a good thing though, since we don't need amazing PCs anymore to play these games developed for old hardware we don't have to spend as much to make a viable gaming rig.

So PC gaming, where the worst thing is also a plus.

EDIT - Read a few more posts and i think people are a lil confused at what Steambox is. Steambox is not a console Valve are going to release. Steambox is an idea for computer manufactures to work towards. Cheap PCs that run Linux designed purely to run Steam Big Picture mode.

V8 Ninja:
As of this moment, there are over six million people actively using Steam.

I think PC gaming is doing just dandy, thank-you-very-much.

plus there's the how ever million people playing WoW, which isn't on steam

Zachary Amaranth:

KingsGambit:
This is making my point for me.

You just insisted crowdsourcing (Kickstarter) was necessary, a light at the end of the tunnel. I demonstrated otherwise. That's not making your point.

Unless your point is something like "Kickstarter will have almost no impact in terms of quality gaming's continued existence," in which case you said it very poorly.

That's not entirely accurate. In my original post, I mentioned that indie games and kickstarter was all that PC gaming had now. My point of view is that it is not really enough. I don't care how good an indie game might be. But to call the state of PC gaming healthy is to lie to oneself. Big developers develop for consoles now, PC is barely a second class citizen that gets token lip service from a tiny number of them.

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It's hard for PC as a platform to die since it does everything, you can paint, make music, make things in 3D, write books, make games, netflix, do your homework , make websites yadda yadda. But no when devs or more specficially indie Devs say their game made more money in 1 week on steam vs 1 year on xbox then no it's pretty much fine.

PC isn't a platform that can die because it's not limited to just games, it does everything.

PC gaming is doing fine but the community is not. There are a lot of ass holes in the PC gaming community and its getting worse.

I honestly think that the PC world has been thriving for years now. As long as the console companies's lies are believed by the console owners there will always be console players but that shouldn't last forever considering how the business for those console companies are going down hill.

Snotnarok:
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It's hard for PC as a platform to die since it does everything, you can paint, make music, make things in 3D, write books, make games, netflix, do your homework , make websites yadda yadda. But no when devs or more specficially indie Devs say their game made more money in 1 week on steam vs 1 year on xbox then no it's pretty much fine.

PC isn't a platform that can die because it's not limited to just games, it does everything.

100% agree!

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