Create a hostile faction in a modern fps

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Treblaine:

Akratus:

WHAT? Seriously . . .DUDE WHAT?

I said it was an awesome cinematic, but they would be better villains if they didn't kill people that have nothing to do with what they are trying to accomplish.

Seriously . . what the fuck was that rant all about?

No, you thought it was awesome till a different type of defenceless unarmed victims were being murdered.

Take your medicine, you can either be fine with anyone being killed because herp a derp it's just a video game and fake violence is fun, or you can adapt it into some kind of context of legitimate combat, like fighting and killing truly dangerous opponents.

You're clearly taking exceptional delight in New York businessmen being murdered, but not "the man on the street".

I don't know whay you think words mean but you said without Qualification it was Awesome when just the Businessmen were being targeted. If you are now realising what an awful thing that is, don't complain to me for calling you out on it, just delet your post and apologise for going overboard.

I mean how old were you when 9/11 happened? When terrorists targeted business people in the World Trade Centre? And the resulting carnage killed thousands? Have any clue the ramifications of that event and how they so clearly relate to the fictional events in the video in question.

if they didn't kill people that have nothing to do with what they are trying to accomplish.

But that's what terrorists DO. They terrorise people killing and maiming so many till they get what they want. You think that if they are insane enough to think a book-manufacturer accountant deserves to be strapped with explosives and defenestrated, that that insane ideology won't spread to targeting other people.

I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?

Repeat after me:

I like villains that make sense. I do not support terrorists or their worldviews.

rhizhim:

that game doesnt really represent the 99% movement, you are getting yourself rilled up for nothing.

i said the "99%" as a joke on the op's saying "that would not count as a minority in the western world."

these guys in the video game are just terrorists (rainbow six games were all about anti terror / swat groups fighting kidnapers and terrorists.)

and like the al Quaida and every other terrorist organisation in existence (even the "american revolution"), they are acting under the umbrella of either religion or an "ideal" to "justify" pushing their own agendas through violence.

and people are not rooting for these madmen as much as you think.

hell, seeing the Concept Gameplay video doesnt leave any sane person romantise root with the "patriots"

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker for company x and who is just a publisher for children books in general?

Akratus:

That is awesome, except for when they detonate the bomb in public. It's as thought they're adding evil to them just to get you not to root for them, or just not want to kill them enough.

it is awesome because it has so many potentials as to show why terror can be so complex and it doesnt necessarily involve brown people being angry at others because they believe in something else, rather people who might have indulged themselves in a twisted worldview and think of themselves, they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

just like this guy
thought he could "shake awake the sheeple" by commiting an atrocity.

please watch the Rainbow Six Patriots Concept Gameplay i provided above and you'll see that it doesnt really give you any "space" to really root for the "patriots".
btw. poor bastard in the concept video..

Well the other person thought it was "awesome" except the killing of guys on the street... clealry showing his preference for murdering businessmen. And he's not the only one I've ever heard take that stance and the Occupy Movement have had to do a lot of self exclusion of these extremist elements and are rightly PISSED THE FUCK OFF how their extremist ideology are poisoning the work of their moralistic activism.

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker

No, I really think they wouldn't. Because that IS the fracking precedent set by terrorists.

You think Al Qaeda were selective when they crashed two commercial jets into the World Trade Centre buildings? You think the Red Army Faction targeted anyone other than those who they could kidnap and who were most high profile?

See when these groups become extreme enough to think it's appropriate to HORRIBLY MURDER PEOPLE for things like tax avoidance, then they aren't going to be specific to individuals, they'll see the whole group of "suits" as all being the target of their wrath. That is the way terrorists work, their destructive hatred is targeted at groups.

Don't post that picture of Breivik again... he isn't Voldemort, you can say his name and not treat him like a dragon.

That's the thing with Breivik, he doesn't represent any political movement in Norway, he is just one extremely twisted and deluded psychopath. He's not even the head of a movement that he is manipulating, he is one of only a couple individuals in all of Europe who think terror is the path and these people aren't talking to each other. That's because on the sale of sensibility, they are outliers on the side of extreme delusion and muddled thinking. And the thing is these people, they do NOT work in groups, they only really function writing and reading their own rambling manifesto because they can't convince a single god damn person of anything.

involve brown people being angry at others

People don't dumb down things like the English Civil War as "white people angry at each other" so don't do it here, no one does. The only time I ever heard things being summarised as that way is by people objecting to other people apparently doing that... when they don't.

they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

What happens is the "means to the end" of the "greater good" becomes the "end in itself".

It's like socialism is great, leads to the greater good of stopping the people in power exploiting and abusing people, then massive state control and domination becomes the means to that end then becomes the end in itself, completely losing focus on the final result.

Just look at North Korea, where people are being brutalised because they didn't cry hard enough at the demise of their dear leader, or

Treblaine:

rhizhim:

that game doesnt really represent the 99% movement, you are getting yourself rilled up for nothing.

i said the "99%" as a joke on the op's saying "that would not count as a minority in the western world."

these guys in the video game are just terrorists (rainbow six games were all about anti terror / swat groups fighting kidnapers and terrorists.)

and like the al Quaida and every other terrorist organisation in existence (even the "american revolution"), they are acting under the umbrella of either religion or an "ideal" to "justify" pushing their own agendas through violence.

and people are not rooting for these madmen as much as you think.

hell, seeing the Concept Gameplay video doesnt leave any sane person romantise root with the "patriots"

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker for company x and who is just a publisher for children books in general?

Akratus:

That is awesome, except for when they detonate the bomb in public. It's as thought they're adding evil to them just to get you not to root for them, or just not want to kill them enough.

it is awesome because it has so many potentials as to show why terror can be so complex and it doesnt necessarily involve brown people being angry at others because they believe in something else, rather people who might have indulged themselves in a twisted worldview and think of themselves, they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

just like this guy
thought he could "shake awake the sheeple" by commiting an atrocity.

please watch the Rainbow Six Patriots Concept Gameplay i provided above and you'll see that it doesnt really give you any "space" to really root for the "patriots".
btw. poor bastard in the concept video..

Well the other person thought it was "awesome" except the killing of guys on the street... clealry showing his preference for murdering businessmen. And he's not the only one I've ever heard take that stance and the Occupy Movement have had to do a lot of self exclusion of these extremist elements and are rightly PISSED THE FUCK OFF how their extremist ideology are poisoning the work of their moralistic activism.

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker

No, I really think they wouldn't. Because that IS the fracking precedent set by terrorists.

You think Al Qaeda were selective when they crashed two commercial jets into the World Trade Centre buildings? You think the Red Army Faction targeted anyone other than those who they could kidnap and who were most high profile?

See when these groups become extreme enough to think it's appropriate to HORRIBLY MURDER PEOPLE for things like tax avoidance, then they aren't going to be specific to individuals, they'll see the whole group of "suits" as all being the target of their wrath. That is the way terrorists work, their destructive hatred is targeted at groups.

Don't post that picture of Breivik again... he isn't Voldemort, you can say his name and not treat him like a dragon.

That's the thing with Breivik, he doesn't represent any political movement in Norway, he is just one extremely twisted and deluded psychopath. He's not even the head of a movement that he is manipulating, he is one of only a couple individuals in all of Europe who think terror is the path and these people aren't talking to each other. That's because on the sale of sensibility, they are outliers on the side of extreme delusion and muddled thinking. And the thing is these people, they do NOT work in groups, they only really function writing and reading their own rambling manifesto because they can't convince a single god damn person of anything.

involve brown people being angry at others

People don't dumb down things like the English Civil War as "white people angry at each other" so don't do it here, no one does. The only time I ever heard things being summarised as that way is by people objecting to other people apparently doing that... when they don't.

they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

What happens is the "means to the end" of the "greater good" becomes the "end in itself".

It's like socialism is great, leads to the greater good of stopping the people in power exploiting and abusing people, then massive state control and domination becomes the means to that end then becomes the end in itself, completely losing focus on the final result.

Just look at North Korea, where people are being brutalised because they didn't cry hard enough at the demise of their dear leader, or

AGAIN you are taking my words and giving them a different meaning. Stop making this political. I JUST thought it was awesome IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS A WELL MADE VIDEO AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE GREAT VILLAINS TO FIGHT IN A GAME, but I would like it more if they were morally ambigious rather than going on RANDOM killing sprees. GEE, I LIKE GAMES THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY BLACK AND WHITE AND GIVE YOU OTHER REASONS TO HATE VILLAINS THAN EVIL ACTIONS USELESS IN THE STORY. JESUS CHRIST!!

Akratus:

I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?

Yeah, but the problem was you liked them as villains ONLY when they were brutalising businessmen.

You've got to realise how that make it seem on WHY you like them as villians. I mean it doesn't seem you like them as villains because they do bad things, because they do a bad thing and it is a downside to you. But a bad thing to someone other than businessmen.

Treblaine:

Akratus:

I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?

Yeah, but the problem was you liked them as villains ONLY when they were brutalising businessmen.

You've got to realise how that make it seem on WHY you like them as villians. I mean it doesn't seem you like them as villains because they do bad things, because they do a bad thing and it is a downside to you. But a bad thing to someone other than businessmen.

Liking =/= anything else. I like to play Nazi's in Company of Heroes, does that make me a nazi?

Akratus:

AGAIN you are taking my worlds and giving them a different meaning. Stop making this political. I JUST thought it was awesome IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS A WELL MADE VIDEO AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE GREAT VILLAINS TO FIGHT IN A GAME, BUT I WOULD LIKE IT MORE IF THEY WERE MORALLY AMBIGIOUS RATHER THAN GOING ON KILLING SPREES. GEE, I LIKE GAMES THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY BLACK AND WHITE AND GIVE YOU OTHER REASONS TO HATE VILLAINS THAN EVIL ACTIONS USELESS IN THE STORY. JESUS CHRIST!!

What?

You mean it isn't "black and white" on whether the terrorists are evil if they strap a suicide vest to a defenceless man and throw him out of a window?!?!?

That's as black and white as it get... of wait, but the terrorist is doing this all in the name of a popular political ideology. No. That is uttelry 100% wrongheaded that there is any kinds of moral ambiguity for an unforgivable crime just because it happens to be done in the name of your ideas on reform of the economic system.

No, it was black and white and they were evil when they started executing businessmen, not suddenly when the "crossed the line" of slaughtering non-businessmen. There is no moral ambiguity. The victims just happen to be a group that people have some issues with that are really quite trivial compared to such a horrific murder.

I'm not changing the meaning of your words, I am exposing how utterly wrong your approach is and that may not have been your intention but it wasn't because of manipulation of words, it's due to extremely unethical approaches to righteous violence.

Akratus:

Treblaine:

Akratus:

I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?

Yeah, but the problem was you liked them as villains ONLY when they were brutalising businessmen.

You've got to realise how that make it seem on WHY you like them as villians. I mean it doesn't seem you like them as villains because they do bad things, because they do a bad thing and it is a downside to you. But a bad thing to someone other than businessmen.

Liking =/= anything else. I like to play Nazi's in Company of Heroes, does that make me a nazi?

There is a difference.

It's like the difference between playing the Germans in WWII where they fought the Americans and British according to the rules of war.

And the difference from liking to play the Germans in a Death Camp simulator.

See, they're different thing, one is an unconscionable and unethical crime and nothing else, the other is just the tactics of 1940's infantry warfare where it's belligerent verses belligerent, kill or be killed, it's not exactly nice but they are going into this with agreed intentions of defeating each other militarily.

You like the terrorist there when they are specifically committing a horrifically brutal crime of murdering a defenceless old man.

You can admire the Wehrmacht for their prowess on the battlefield, but it's another thing to admire the Gestapo when observing them commit their worse crimes.

Treblaine:

Akratus:

AGAIN you are taking my worlds and giving them a different meaning. Stop making this political. I JUST thought it was awesome IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS A WELL MADE VIDEO AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE GREAT VILLAINS TO FIGHT IN A GAME, BUT I WOULD LIKE IT MORE IF THEY WERE MORALLY AMBIGIOUS RATHER THAN GOING ON KILLING SPREES. GEE, I LIKE GAMES THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY BLACK AND WHITE AND GIVE YOU OTHER REASONS TO HATE VILLAINS THAN EVIL ACTIONS USELESS IN THE STORY. JESUS CHRIST!!

What?

You mean it isn't "black and white" on whether the terrorists are evil if they strap a suicide vest to a defenceless man and throw him out of a window?!?!?

That's as black and white as it get... of wait, but the terrorist is doing this all in the name of a popular political ideology. No. That is uttelry 100% wrongheaded that there is any kinds of moral ambiguity for an unforgivable crime just because it happens to be done in the name of your ideas on reform of the economic system.

No, it was black and white and they were evil when they started executing businessmen, not suddenly when the "crossed the line" of slaughtering non-businessmen. There is no moral ambiguity. The victims just happen to be a group that people have some issues with that are really quite trivial compared to such a horrific murder.

I'm not changing the meaning of your words, I am exposing how utterly wrong your approach is and that may not have been your intention but it wasn't because of manipulation of words, it's due to extremely unethical approaches to righteous violence.

I said it would be LESS black and white. From a narrative perspect they would be more logical, and thus they'd be better and more realistic villains.

You need to stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking man, can't I just like whatever villains I like, which I do for non political or immoral reasons?

HannesPascal:
Thing is I can't really make up who you should shoot in these games it's not like anyone would accept that Denmark started to conquer the world and you have to stop them.

Why not? That would be awesome. You could build a whole storyline about how they'd been biding their time as an apparently small player on the world stage, when really an extremist right wing faction had infiltrated the government and quietly grabbed some crucial reins of power... building up a massive war chest (from, I dunno, diverting the revenue from bridge tolls between Germany and Sweden, or taxes on butter cookies and premium lager, or secretly mining for gold and uranium in Greenland, or...), then used it (and various recent cutting edge technologies - 3D printing, dense supercomputer matrices made from smartphone chips and sensors, quadrotor drones, graphene, non-newtonian fluid armour, kilowatt lasers, suitcase EMPs etc) to develop a great arsenal of advanced weaponry ... maybe some metal gear/gundam type shit, who knows... recruiting footsoldiers from impressionable and easily swayed sectors of society... launching a blitz-style coup d'etat when the time came, and immediately launching a campaign to conquer western europe and from there the world.

If your plan and your weapon systems are integrated and fast enough, you could be bringing the rain on the capital city of every last one of the 40-odd sovereign states within the geographic borders of the Mediterranean, Atlantic, arctic ice cap and the Urals within the span of a working day. Denmark is actually fairly handy for that - the Alps and Pyrenees are a bit of a pain to get over in order to hit Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc, but not that much, and you could have sleeper cells anyway. All you need to build a few local giant robots is a tall enough warehouse in a little-trafficked part of town, a suitably large reprap, some diplomatic bags (or a light aircraft doing airdrops) full of plutonium fuel for their micro-reactors, a few willing operatives and a minor cash injection after all...

Kick off at 8.30 local, just as the EU is on its way to work (either setting out, mid-commute, or just settling in at their desk, and no-one paying a great deal of attention to breaking news stories), grab control of the government within an hour of the doors of beaurocracy opening for business and before they can effectively raise the alarm, and then launch your shock troops across the continent. Flatten the seats of power of much of the G20 within a couple hours more, batting jet planes out of the sky. Chaos rains, whilst much of the populace is still hacking away oblivious at work until the more twitter-obsessed person in the office drops by saying that they're getting a lot of strange reports off their timeline and it might be worth nipping down to the canteen and having them switch the TV over from The Hits to News24...

By 5pm, most of the significant army bases that could have mounted any kind of serious defence are smoking craters, and the union is in serious disarray, and effectively destroyed. Martial law imposed. TV and radio stations taken over. Everyone except essential healthcare staff ordered back to their homes under curfew... monitored using nightvision and infrared, or just keeping a lookout for torches, as all the street lights are turned off.

Population databases seized and used to rapidly identify and round up or just plain execute undesirables (given my chosen setting, this would turn the usual current trope on its head by the civilians singled out for massacre =being= those which a uber-right-wing nutjob would assume of being a filthy terrorist within a second of catching sight of them, or even just their name - both those who actually ARE, and the innocents who are the fourth generation of their family to live peacefully in the same once-white-bread town) before word can even get out that they need to find somewhere to hide. A second holocaust, but instead of dragging out over six years it swings rapidly into action within the first day, with a bodycount that would make a 1980s Hollywood action film director wince within 72 hours. Stormtroopers raised on a diet of FPSes sent out to claim headshots on a long list of people, with their addresses. How many n00bs might you pwn over the course of a five minute deathmatch? Now multiply that by a small but determined army of stormtroops, "working" in 8-hour shifts... 24/7. With poorly armed, poorly trained, unarmoured, largely unsuspecting opponents cowering with their families. The ethnic cleansing of the 90s Balkan conflict, or even the current Syrian civil war would look like a playground argument.

Though most lines of communication out of the continent would have been cut as part of the first wave of attack (not particularly hard to bombard the undersea/mountain pass cable hookup depots), word would naturally get out across the globe quite quickly; the cessation of normal business alone would draw a lot of attention. Such audacious tyranny cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The remaining members of NATO and other organisations, including parts of Russia and the former USSR not physically occupied or otherwise affected, go into emergency conference to try to come up with some plan of action. The few spy shots they actually manage to get, before all vantage points are covered, and overflying planes and satellites are taken out with laser shots, show unknown and alarmingly advanced types of weaponry, including entire classes that have not been previously seen outside of comic books. Obviously, this shit is fucking serious. The war on terror is abandoned in order to bring all possible troops and weapons to bear. A few raggedy terrorists hiding in desert caves are chickenfeed in comparison. In fact, even a few hasty alliances are forged with said guerilla fighters, who aren't exactly optimistic about their own prospects should the Danish Aryan steamroller start to roll their way, but have unique skills of their own to offer. Planes, tanks, ships are modified with experimental, duct taped and jerry rigged countermeasures against the new weapons - for once, the United States, China and the remaining Russian forces are on the back foot, even when allied together and with all the nations of Asia, Africa, South America and Oceania, thanks to the unique and overwhelming offensive power even of the otherwise quite small Army Of The New Danish Empire.

And so you are dropped into this narrative at the start of the first United Global Liberation Force offensive against the NDE, landing in... oh, let's say Cork, in Ireland, in an attempt to secure some kind of defensible base of operations which at least has the natural barrier of the ocean to allow a little more notice of impending attack than might be had from a guy on a hilltop 20 miles away popping up to take a few people out with his laser cannon then disappearing again, as might be felt trying to infiltrate via a more landlocked border...

Damn, man. Someone get me whatever the literary equivalent of a patent is on this shit, I feel a "first novel" coming on. Or maybe an elevator pitch for a triple-A FPS-creatin' studio. After all, it can't be worse than Daikatana. Or Kane and Lynch. Or Steel Batallion...

Backtracking down the ideas tree, perhaps instead it might even be the place where Terminators or the "Screamers" (for you classic sci-fi/horror short story fans) were ACTUALLY first developed and start to spread from? Something like that? Or ground zero for some domestic terrorists launching a biological attack using some incredibly potent prion-esque virus. Maybe not one that creates zombies (seriously, that's played out), but quite possibly one that mucks about with your DNA and body structure in other ways... and can lie dormant in soil or on surfaces for days or weeks whilst still being infectious. So you have to go in with a biosuit to try and clear up the quarantine areas as each attack is launched (eventually spreading outside the country's borders) and also attempt to flush out and neutralise the culprits, and secure/carefully destroy their remaining stocks of the stuff.

You've got a potential imaginative goldmine sitting there and you're so willing to just chuck it away. Why not Zoidb... er, Denmark? Does it have to be either dusky terrorists or a present-day superpower every time? Just look at how the global map of empire and power bases has shifted over the last 200 years; why can't it shift a little more in an unexpected direction in the next 50, for a near-future speculative storyline?

Damn, I wish I was in a position of more creative influence, I'd so steal that tiny grain of an idea and then run with it hard and long.

In fact, I'm saving this to a timestamped text file just in case some game using it comes up in five years' time, so I can say I Told You So, Look They're Nicking My Idea.

tahrey:

HannesPascal:
Thing is I can't really make up who you should shoot in these games it's not like anyone would accept that Denmark started to conquer the world and you have to stop them.

Why not? That would be awesome. You could build a whole storyline about how they'd been biding their time as an apparently small player on the world stage, when really an extremist right wing faction had infiltrated the government and quietly grabbed some crucial reins of power... building up a massive war chest (from, I dunno, diverting the revenue from bridge tolls between Germany and Sweden, or taxes on butter cookies and premium lager, or secretly mining for gold and uranium in Greenland, or...), then used it (and various recent cutting edge technologies - 3D printing, dense supercomputer matrices made from smartphone chips and sensors, quadrotor drones, graphene, non-newtonian fluid armour, kilowatt lasers, suitcase EMPs etc) to develop a great arsenal of advanced weaponry ... maybe some metal gear/gundam type shit, who knows... recruiting footsoldiers from impressionable and easily swayed sectors of society... launching a blitz-style coup d'etat when the time came, and immediately launching a campaign to conquer western europe and from there the world.

If your plan and your weapon systems are integrated and fast enough, you could be bringing the rain on the capital city of every last one of the 40-odd sovereign states within the geographic borders of the Mediterranean, Atlantic, arctic ice cap and the Urals within the span of a working day. Denmark is actually fairly handy for that - the Alps and Pyrenees are a bit of a pain to get over in order to hit Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc, but not that much, and you could have sleeper cells anyway. All you need to build a few local giant robots is a tall enough warehouse in a little-trafficked part of town, a suitably large reprap, some diplomatic bags (or a light aircraft doing airdrops) full of plutonium fuel for their micro-reactors, a few willing operatives and a minor cash injection after all...

Kick off at 8.30 local, just as the EU is on its way to work (either setting out, mid-commute, or just settling in at their desk, and no-one paying a great deal of attention to breaking news stories), grab control of the government within an hour of the doors of beaurocracy opening for business and before they can effectively raise the alarm, and then launch your shock troops across the continent. Flatten the seats of power of much of the G20 within a couple hours more, batting jet planes out of the sky. Chaos rains, whilst much of the populace is still hacking away oblivious at work until the more twitter-obsessed person in the office drops by saying that they're getting a lot of strange reports off their timeline and it might be worth nipping down to the canteen and having them switch the TV over from The Hits to News24...

By 5pm, most of the significant army bases that could have mounted any kind of serious defence are smoking craters, and the union is in serious disarray, and effectively destroyed. Martial law imposed. TV and radio stations taken over. Everyone except essential healthcare staff ordered back to their homes under curfew... monitored using nightvision and infrared, or just keeping a lookout for torches, as all the street lights are turned off.

Population databases seized and used to rapidly identify and round up or just plain execute undesirables (given my chosen setting, this would turn the usual current trope on its head by the civilians singled out for massacre =being= those which a uber-right-wing nutjob would assume of being a filthy terrorist within a second of catching sight of them, or even just their name - both those who actually ARE, and the innocents who are the fourth generation of their family to live peacefully in the same once-white-bread town) before word can even get out that they need to find somewhere to hide. A second holocaust, but instead of dragging out over six years it swings rapidly into action within the first day, with a bodycount that would make a 1980s Hollywood action film director wince within 72 hours. Stormtroopers raised on a diet of FPSes sent out to claim headshots on a long list of people, with their addresses. How many n00bs might you pwn over the course of a five minute deathmatch? Now multiply that by a small but determined army of stormtroops, "working" in 8-hour shifts... 24/7. With poorly armed, poorly trained, unarmoured, largely unsuspecting opponents cowering with their families. The ethnic cleansing of the 90s Balkan conflict, or even the current Syrian civil war would look like a playground argument.

Though most lines of communication out of the continent would have been cut as part of the first wave of attack (not particularly hard to bombard the undersea/mountain pass cable hookup depots), word would naturally get out across the globe quite quickly; the cessation of normal business alone would draw a lot of attention. Such audacious tyranny cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The remaining members of NATO and other organisations, including parts of Russia and the former USSR not physically occupied or otherwise affected, go into emergency conference to try to come up with some plan of action. The few spy shots they actually manage to get, before all vantage points are covered, and overflying planes and satellites are taken out with laser shots, show unknown and alarmingly advanced types of weaponry, including entire classes that have not been previously seen outside of comic books. Obviously, this shit is fucking serious. The war on terror is abandoned in order to bring all possible troops and weapons to bear. A few raggedy terrorists hiding in desert caves are chickenfeed in comparison. In fact, even a few hasty alliances are forged with said guerilla fighters, who aren't exactly optimistic about their own prospects should the Danish Aryan steamroller start to roll their way, but have unique skills of their own to offer. Planes, tanks, ships are modified with experimental, duct taped and jerry rigged countermeasures against the new weapons - for once, the United States, China and the remaining Russian forces are on the back foot, even when allied together and with all the nations of Asia, Africa, South America and Oceania, thanks to the unique and overwhelming offensive power even of the otherwise quite small Army Of The New Danish Empire.

And so you are dropped into this narrative at the start of the first United Global Liberation Force offensive against the NDE, landing in... oh, let's say Cork, in Ireland, in an attempt to secure some kind of defensible base of operations which at least has the natural barrier of the ocean to allow a little more notice of impending attack than might be had from a guy on a hilltop 20 miles away popping up to take a few people out with his laser cannon then disappearing again, as might be felt trying to infiltrate via a more landlocked border...

Damn, man. Someone get me whatever the literary equivalent of a patent is on this shit, I feel a "first novel" coming on. Or maybe an elevator pitch for a triple-A FPS-creatin' studio. After all, it can't be worse than Daikatana. Or Kane and Lynch. Or Steel Batallion...

Backtracking down the ideas tree, perhaps instead it might even be the place where Terminators or the "Screamers" (for you classic sci-fi/horror short story fans) were ACTUALLY first developed and start to spread from? Something like that? Or ground zero for some domestic terrorists launching a biological attack using some incredibly potent prion-esque virus. Maybe not one that creates zombies (seriously, that's played out), but quite possibly one that mucks about with your DNA and body structure in other ways... and can lie dormant in soil or on surfaces for days or weeks whilst still being infectious. So you have to go in with a biosuit to try and clear up the quarantine areas as each attack is launched (eventually spreading outside the country's borders) and also attempt to flush out and neutralise the culprits, and secure/carefully destroy their remaining stocks of the stuff.

You've got a potential imaginative goldmine sitting there and you're so willing to just chuck it away. Why not Zoidb... er, Denmark? Does it have to be either dusky terrorists or a present-day superpower every time? Just look at how the global map of empire and power bases has shifted over the last 200 years; why can't it shift a little more in an unexpected direction in the next 50, for a near-future speculative storyline?

Damn, I wish I was in a position of more creative influence, I'd so steal that tiny grain of an idea and then run with it hard and long.

In fact, I'm saving this to a timestamped text file just in case some game using it comes up in five years' time, so I can say I Told You So, Look They're Nicking My Idea.

i want this game now, and i will so pay 60 euros for it.

Akratus:
I said it would be LESS black and white. From a narrative perspect they would be more logical, and thus they'd be better and more realistic villains.

*Less* black and white?!??

You really expect people to believe that explanation?

Treblaine:

Like America? No. Not any more than, say, Australia (another country I've never even visited). I just don't like people talking nonsense and making spurious equivalence with Nazi Germany.

This isn't about liking America to any exceptional extent, I like all countries, there is not any country I categorically dislike.

WWII and Cold-war socio-political history in Europe is my expertise.

If anything were going to get "out of hand" in America from the trends today it most certainly would not be towards one monothlithic fascistic ideology, it would be increasingly fractured and diverging points of view. This should be blindingly obvious to anyone that American politics is full of constant disagreements and conflicting interests, not just from state to state but within states and from street to street.

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

Arfonious:

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Treblaine:

rhizhim:

snip

Well the other person thought it was "awesome" except the killing of guys on the street... clealry showing his preference for murdering businessmen. And he's not the only one I've ever heard take that stance and the Occupy Movement have had to do a lot of self exclusion of these extremist elements and are rightly PISSED THE FUCK OFF how their extremist ideology are poisoning the work of their moralistic activism.

you are getting to much wrapped up on this.

its like he said "i like jumping in super mario" and you immediately jump him and yell out loud
"HE LIKES JUMPING ON DEFENSELESS ANIMALS THIS SICK FUCK!"

dont you think that people who play video games could not differentiate real violence from "fake" violence?

or reality with a made up virtual world?

Treblaine:

rhizhim:

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker

No, I really think they wouldn't. Because that IS the fracking precedent set by terrorists.

You think Al Qaeda were selective when they crashed two commercial jets into the World Trade Centre buildings? You think the Red Army Faction targeted anyone other than those who they could kidnap and who were most high profile?

See when these groups become extreme enough to think it's appropriate to HORRIBLY MURDER PEOPLE for things like tax avoidance, then they aren't going to be specific to individuals, they'll see the whole group of "suits" as all being the target of their wrath. That is the way terrorists work, their destructive hatred is targeted at groups.

Don't post that picture of Breivik again... he isn't Voldemort, you can say his name and not treat him like a dragon.

That's the thing with Breivik, he doesn't represent any political movement in Norway, he is just one extremely twisted and deluded psychopath. He's not even the head of a movement that he is manipulating, he is one of only a couple individuals in all of Europe who think terror is the path and these people aren't talking to each other. That's because on the sale of sensibility, they are outliers on the side of extreme delusion and muddled thinking. And the thing is these people, they do NOT work in groups, they only really function writing and reading their own rambling manifesto because they can't convince a single god damn person of anything.

no. terrorist do a proper research, they have high priority targets.
they dont just blow themselves up just for the lulz.

they try to kill prioritised targets and dont care for colleteral damadge as long as they can archieve their primary goal.

and if they pick up a random joe to make an example out of him, they even do a small research as which random joe they are going to kill.
they are going to prioritise that random guy over there rather than this random joe over here , when they find out that he just happens to be talking to an "enemy" or have another religion or whatever.

its callculated.

or else they would had just flown the plane into the statue of liberty or the bank of america tower or the empire state building.

and as for posting a picture of brevik: i know he is not voldemort and you shouldnt get all mad about it for me choosing to post a picture of him instead of spelling out his name. why would you want to forbid me posting his image?

and i chose him because these "patriots" might be as lunatic as him, thinking they are doing the "right thing"

Treblaine:

rhizhim:

involve brown people being angry at others

People don't dumb down things like the English Civil War as "white people angry at each other" so don't do it here, no one does. The only time I ever heard things being summarised as that way is by people objecting to other people apparently doing that... when they don't.

sorry but they do dumb thing down or else we wouldnt had people complaining about muslims because a minor group of extremists are blowing themselves up and killing people for not living the way they say they should.

people love to generalise things

thats what video games do most of the time, too.
they just tell you, that guy is al quaida or that guy is from faction x and faction x is bad, shoot him dead.

thats why these "patriots" seem like "better villians" in a video game since they already give them a bit more background just by giving them this premise and it makes you question them a bit more.

like "why would they do that, dont they know it wouldnt change anything?" or "what can drive a man to join them?"

yes, these questions can also be applied to the "brown people" that are generalised in video games.
but it has a greater effect when it comes from someone you were trained to wouldn't expect.

like the time people were suprise when they caught John Phillip Walker Lindh aka the american taliban
image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh

Treblaine:

rhizhim:

they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

What happens is the "means to the end" of the "greater good" becomes the "end in itself".

It's like socialism is great, leads to the greater good of stopping the people in power exploiting and abusing people, then massive state control and domination becomes the means to that end then becomes the end in itself, completely losing focus on the final result.

Just look at North Korea, where people are being brutalised because they didn't cry hard enough at the demise of their dear leader, or

you didnt finish the sentence. and thank you for snipping my statement out of context

it is awesome because it has so many potentials as to show why terror can be so complex and it doesnt necessarily involve brown people being angry at others because they believe in something else, rather people who might have indulged themselves in a twisted worldview and think of themselves, they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

and i also added this

and taking a concept that should be kind of rootable (fighing for the small common man) and potraying it like it really would be, if it ever came to this, is something really cool to see.

and you are just stating one aspect why these patriots might be more interesting villians rather than the known face covered terrorists from "some country far away".

north korea has problems the day it started and they are currently experiencing the most desasterous famine of this century. but still i dont quite get why you want to involve north korea into this discussion since a great deal of people know that things that started as a good concept went sour fast.

thats why we have the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

i get that you want just to provide an example to the "means to the end", but i am smart enough to know what things in reality never really turn out like it was planned on paper. mostly they get even worse than you would expect.

plus your statement

Treblaine:

I don't know whay you think words mean but you said without Qualification it was Awesome when just the Businessmen were being targeted. If you are now realising what an awful thing that is, don't complain to me for calling you out on it, just delet your post and apologise for going overboard.

of making him delete his post and apologize for stating his opinion is crossing the line.

Treblaine:

Arfonious:

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.

Arfonious:

Treblaine:

Arfonious:

I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.

No, the US military isn't exceptionally big and powerful, it's redundant and expensive. Here's a look at how things get the way they are and to spite this being a dramatisation the numbers and details are all accurate:

They literally spend 1000 times as much for something that is less effective. I must point out, loading a troop compartment with 25mm explosive shells, means anything that penetrates the thin aluminium armour won't just create one or two casualties that may live, and the vehicle may be repaired... it'll burn and explode killing almost everyone inside and totally destroying the vehicle.

This puts into context the huge military expenditure of the US.

And don't even get me started on fighter jet procurement.

And this has been the case with the US military since WWII, where frontline commanders withheld the introduction of the Pershing Tank, a tank that could have totally overcome the threat of superior German tanks, all because they were so wed to the pre-war ideology of infantry-tanks and OPEN TOPPED tank destroyers. If the Germans hadn't run out of fuel the Americans would have been completely overrun, instead they were only occasionally overrun.

The US military constantly has a manpower shortage as conscription has become politically impossible and adequate retention of trained soldiers is untenable.

The thing is we've had American military forces as opponents in games DOZENS of times before. Half Life - the cornerstone of FPS gaming - had the US Marine Corps as the principal organised antagonist. And what was the big difference? How was it any different than if Black Mesa had been invaded by the Russian Spetznaz or the Chinese?

I can think of only one good gameplay reason to have American Military as the opponents, as they'll drop popular American weapons like M16s and M203 grenade launchers, that are so popular and ripe for gameplay design. I suppose it's also slightly more plausible they'll be giving commands and exclamations in English, and considering how many people know English this can be useful from a gameplay perspective of the added tactical element of guessing what the enemy is doing by what they yell. Like "fire in the hole" is telegraphing the move they're about to throw a grenade at you.

Frankly I think that this is much more about Politicised impressions of who the underdog is rather than who actually is.

Treblaine:

Arfonious:

Treblaine:

OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.

Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.

No, the US military isn't exceptionally big and powerful, it's redundant and expensive. Here's a look at how things get the way they are and to spite this being a dramatisation the numbers and details are all accurate:

They literally spend 1000 times as much for something that is less effective. I must point out, loading a troop compartment with 25mm explosive shells, means anything that penetrates the thin aluminium armour won't just create one or two casualties that may live, and the vehicle may be repaired... it'll burn and explode killing almost everyone inside and totally destroying the vehicle.

This puts into context the huge military expenditure of the US.

And don't even get me started on fighter jet procurement.

And this has been the case with the US military since WWII, where frontline commanders withheld the introduction of the Pershing Tank, a tank that could have totally overcome the threat of superior German tanks, all because they were so wed to the pre-war ideology of infantry-tanks and OPEN TOPPED tank destroyers. If the Germans hadn't run out of fuel the Americans would have been completely overrun, instead they were only occasionally overrun.

The US military constantly has a manpower shortage as conscription has become politically impossible and adequate retention of trained soldiers is untenable.

The thing is we've had American military forces as opponents in games DOZENS of times before. Half Life - the cornerstone of FPS gaming - had the US Marine Corps as the principal organised antagonist. And what was the big difference? How was it any different than if Black Mesa had been invaded by the Russian Spetznaz or the Chinese?

I can think of only one good gameplay reason to have American Military as the opponents, as they'll drop popular American weapons like M16s and M203 grenade launchers, that are so popular and ripe for gameplay design. I suppose it's also slightly more plausible they'll be giving commands and exclamations in English, and considering how many people know English this can be useful from a gameplay perspective of the added tactical element of guessing what the enemy is doing by what they yell. Like "fire in the hole" is telegraphing the move they're about to throw a grenade at you.

Frankly I think that this is much more about Politicised impressions of who the underdog is rather than who actually is.

I still think that you are reading a bit too much into my original comment

WaysideMaze:

ccdohl:

HannesPascal:

So my question to you is:
Can you make up some enemy in a modern fps that isn't brown skinned, russian or something else that would count as a minority in the western world.

Why is it so bad for folks who happen to be brown skinned to be the enemies in games? If you are trying to base your game in a modern military setting, and you need a lot of enemies to fill up your levels, there are really not too many places to look. Africa, Asia, South America, and the Middle East are sort of the only places that a modern military could realistically be conceived to need to fight. Maybe Mexico, but you'd still just be fighting brown skinned people, which is bad for some reason, right? There just aren't any European terrorist states.

I mean, you can make it right wing nutjobs or a PMC or something, but the scope of the story would have to be pretty small.

All of this is assuming, of course, that the protagonist would be from the United States or some other western nation.

Why not a game where some crazed dictator ends up leading Great Britain, and decides he wants to restore the country to it's former glory by rebuilding the empire, starting with Europe. A western nation fighting other western nations could work. It doesn't have to be realistic, you could even set it in an alternate timeline. It can still be modern day, just with different politics in play.

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

a cult of insane cannables who hunt other people and eat them

Dogstile:

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

Yeah, except ALL THE GAMES WITH AMERICANS AS ANTAGONISTS!

No. Homefront was ignored because it was a shitty COD clone, and the most lauded Modern Warfare 2, the big bad guy was a serving American General.

So you are utterly and categorically wrong that "everyone got annoyed because it's america".

I'm bloody fed up of these endless petty attacks on America.

PS: I wonder how long it'll be because I'm accused of a jingoistic reactionary American, even though I'm a Lib-dem voting Brit who has never been further west than Cornwall.

PPS: I wonder why every time there is a thread suggesting "novel antagonist" in video games a good fraction of the responses are "herp a derp, the Americans" as if games like Half Life never had the US Marine Corps as the antagonists, way to go with "innovation", just about catching up to where Valve was 15 years ago.

Treblaine:

Dogstile:

They tried modern day with different politics, they called it homefront and everyone got annoyed because it's america and nothing can touch america, america is invincible.

Yeah, except ALL THE GAMES WITH AMERICANS AS ANTAGONISTS!

No. Homefront was ignored because it was a shitty COD clone, and the most lauded Modern Warfare 2, the big bad guy was a serving American General.

So you are utterly and categorically wrong that "everyone got annoyed because it's america".

I'm bloody fed up of these endless petty attacks on America.

PS: I wonder how long it'll be because I'm accused of a jingoistic reactionary American, even though I'm a Lib-dem voting Brit who has never been further west than Cornwall.

PPS: I wonder why every time there is a thread suggesting "novel antagonist" in video games a good fraction of the responses are "herp a derp, the Americans" as if games like Half Life never had the US Marine Corps as the antagonists, way to go with "innovation", just about catching up to where Valve was 15 years ago.

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

I'd like to see Americans as the bad folks in a game as well without it being comically or overly offensive and overdone.

But is it ever going to happen? It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell and back und refuse buying it if there ever was a game like that.

At least it seems like it

Dogstile:

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

BLAHwhatever:
I'd like to see Americans as the bad folks in a game as well without it being comically or overly offensive and overdone.

But is it ever going to happen? It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell and back und refuse buying it if there ever was a game like that.

At least it seems like it

image

It's only the single most lauded FPS game ever made...

It's so popular, it's one of the only 3D shooter there was an entirely FAN MADE remake!!! Even down to new voice acting.

It seems too big a chunk of the FPS buyers seem to be american patriots/rednecks that would shame the game to hell

image

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

4chan founder "moot" becomes so rich and powerful that he owns and funds his own PMC Army. After using his backing at Anonymous to track the whereabouts of all the world's most wanted men. Multiplying his fame and fortune, moot's activities extend in to European, Asian and even South American shores. Although much of the Anonymous Army's activities have been considered good, the Senate fears his growing influence. You are sent to gather information on this new global force, only to uncover a terrible plot... But whose?

Treblaine:

Dogstile:

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

How about one where you play as a normal soldier/special ops in the US military and have to take down your own command structure in the army. Parts of the US high command, angry at proposed cuts to military spending reducing their influence and fearing that American power would decline, have become part of a military-industrial complex with the aim of starting wars using pretexts to continue high levels army funding and boosting the economy while furthering American influence.

You'd be invading a country like, say, Indonesia as they've been aiding Islamic terrorists in remote provinces, only to find out that its a ploy by the army and arms industries to further US influence by seizing resource-rich areas full of rare metals and inserting agents into the local administration to help fuel a "war economy" and increase their power in the US government. You would have to co-operate with the Indonesian "enemy" and perhaps European/Russian special forces to sabotage the high command's efforts and reveal the truth, while having to go through being labeled as a traitor and with a background of increasing world tensions due to the revealed involvement of other special forces.

There could be some missions as other unaware American special ops responding to the alleged betrayal of European forces by undertaking missions in European cities to assassinate key figures/steal intelligence etc. to add another dimension, and perhaps the chance for them to find out the truth and act upon it. There could also be a kind of choice system early on where you choose whether to defect from the US military to expose what's going on or continue fighting as the world begins to slide towards war and a nuclear conflict, again with interventions in Europe/Russia. Maybe also have an option to operate as a double agent or a system where the amount of intelligence you can find on a mission can add up to a total that could determine the chance and direction of world conflict.

I'd love to play a game like that which wouldn't be afraid of being controversial while also being relevant about genuine US problems (the budget, military power as China becomes more powerful, strength of arms industries).

The entire human race.
And you play as... a robot or an alien or something.

Rawne1980:
Spiders.

A game where the object is just to massacre hordes of Spider.

Because ... fuck Spiders.

But wouldn't people just install mods that replaces the spiders with bears?

Treblaine:

image

It's only the single most lauded FPS game ever made...

It's so popular, it's one of the only 3D shooter there was an entirely FAN MADE remake!!! Even down to new voice acting.

Well, during my playthrough when the game came out I never got the feeling I was fighting America/Americans. I was fighting aliens and faceless soldiers in full body armor.

Treblaine:

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game. The objective is, most of the time, to take revenge/kill other criminals/fuck shit up. The game has a lot of self-irony towards american habits and such, I'll give it that, with all the news and talk-channels/commercials. You're also not playing a "hero" like in most FPS-games.

You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops, killing good ones in the process which the game will try and punish you for.

When I say I'd like to see America portraied in a bad way. Imagine one of those Call of Duty introductions you get to see before missions, that tell you the story why you're going where you're going telling you America invaded this country, killed that many people, nuked that city and you are supposed to kill one of their generals.
All the shit you get told with Russians, arabs, North Koreans, Germans, Africans, whatever, just with Americans instead.

There's potential for a decent story in that, I feel. And I'd like to experience that.

kommando367:

French people vs Canadians and depict both sides as full of bloodthirsty awesomely skilled soldiers.

this would be perfect, since it would all start due to a comical misunderstanding of accents, and quickly devolve into bloodshed over the proper word for blueberry or some such.

sexy nuns with RPGs! Oh wait...

Dogstile:

Treblaine:

Dogstile:

What attack on America? You did see the reaction right? It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen because korea could never take on America, even in an alt universe. You can't get more "annoyed because it attacked america" than that.

Edit: Oh, i'm a brit to, so what?

Edit2: Fuck it, lets actually respond. In modern warfare two, the most big bad guy was actually maKarov, you just end up killing the general at the end of it. With half life two, the americans aren't the bad guys in it to take up the guy, they are black ops. From the wiki:

With the Black Ops, they are part of the "dangerous and very efficient clean-up crew" sent to Black Mesa in case of emergency, and are supposed to work in concert with the Black Mesa Security Force in these cases.

They're there to ensure that the project is never heard from again, arguably doing more good if they manage to close it down forever. The aliens are the main threat. The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

From the wiki:

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

The americans themselves are rarely the main threat.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

Ok so you played Half Life... I gave you the benefit of the doubt of ignorance... now it's apparent you have no excuse for not knowing better or you are making claims you know are not true.

People can complain all they like, you are living proof that people can make ANY CLAIM on an internet forum, it doesn't change the fact that not only was Modern Warfare 2 hugely popular in sales it also swept the board on metacritic, to spite America being invaded by Russia. Your theory of why Homefront tanked is utterly in contradiction with the facts.

The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America.

An issue you have concocted from nowhere. People were warned off getting this because the GAMEPLAY was awful, not at all because political opposition to the game because it DARED to have a future Super Korea invading and economically collapsed America. You've pulled that out of nowhere because a few people on an internet forum decided to make a fuss and ignoring the wider trends.

Don't give me a freaking internet thread, show me the popular critics who summarised Homefront as:

"A very good game that is worth playing, but I say we boycott this game because it dares to suggest that under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE America might be invaded by an Alliance of North Korea, South Korea and Japan"

Because that's your argument, it's a good game that was put down by a political boycott.

Frankly you are all over the place on Half Life.

The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player.

Black ops only attack the few Marines in your group in Opposing Force where you are a Marine that is not the orders. The black ops and Marines fight closely with each other and are never seen fighting each other in Half Life nor Blue Shift.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games.

Well you are talking about them as if you've never played the games.

The fact is the principal antagonist in Half Life is the US Marine Corps, and you are either ignorant or deceptive to lead people to believe otherwise.

Treblaine:

Dogstile:

Treblaine:

"It was a bunch of people scoffing that it was unbelievable and could never happen"

Nope. The few people who played it said the gameplay was terrible and the plot was bad even for a video game. Not because of implausibility, but because of hackneyed and painfully bad acting, and just slow tedious pacing presented like a Wikipedia summary. Plausibility hasn't held back any other game, not Half Life or Grand Theft Auto or, hell I don't need to tell you how many very popular games have implausible premises.

Russia invading both America AND Europe was no problem for the games of the Modern Warfare series.

which can be edited by anyone, clearly that has been written by someone who has not played the Half Life games. If they had, it would be very clear it was the US Marine Corps, not some special black ops outfit, though there are ALSO black ops soldiers (who literally are clad entirely in black). And NEITHER worked along side the Black Mesa security.

Don't you love it when people who don't know anything about the Half Life games lecture to fans about the series...

Oh well excuse me, let me reiterate so you don't think i'm some pleb who's never played the oh so glorious half life. Actually, let me bold that for you.

I have played half life

Now, to counterpoint.

Modern warfare

Turns out people did have a problem with it. Not reviewers, obviously. They were to busy saying how the set pieces were all very "infiltrate, escalate, balls out" before switching it up. Not only did people complain on these forums that it seemed a bit odd that russia could invade the entire world, people also wondered on the trailers.

Aside from that, russia is a juggernaut, its a huge country and the average person knows exactly how brutally effective it was in world war two. Americans with the relatively recent cold war (its dated as recently as having been ended in 1991, that is pretty damn recent). This would have gone a long way into making people go "oh its fine, its russia, they're huge and a legitimate threat".

Homefront

Notice that at no point did I mention gameplay issues. The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America. You mentioned few people bought the game, This is the reason why and is also my point, don't try to argue things unrelated to my point. I believe this is called a Red Herring, you can read up on them if you like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Half life

It said the soldiers worked alongside black ops. That is clearly true as both forces are trying to eliminate everything inside black mesa. The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player. The phrase used is correct.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games. I grew up on them, i've played them all multiple times. Make a point, not a personal attack. You're arguing like a child.

Edit:

Actually here, fuck it, have a link to people on this very website laughing at how implausible it is because korea couldn't possibly do anything to america.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.268130-Trailers-Homefront-Live-Action-Trailer

Ok so you played Half Life... I gave you the benefit of the doubt of ignorance... now it's apparent you have no excuse for not knowing better or you are making claims you know are not true.

People can complain all they like, you are living proof that people can make ANY CLAIM on an internet forum, it doesn't change the fact that not only was Modern Warfare 2 hugely popular in sales it also swept the board on metacritic, to spite America being invaded by Russia. Your theory of why Homefront tanked is utterly in contradiction with the facts.

The only complaints I was talking about were the ones where people said they wouldn't buy it simply because it's story had Korea attacking America.

An issue you have concocted from nowhere. People were warned off getting this because the GAMEPLAY was awful, not at all because political opposition to the game because it DARED to have a future Super Korea invading and economically collapsed America. You've pulled that out of nowhere because a few people on an internet forum decided to make a fuss and ignoring the wider trends.

Don't give me a freaking internet thread, show me the popular critics who summarised Homefront as:

"A very good game that is worth playing, but I say we boycott this game because it dares to suggest that under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE America might be invaded by an Alliance of North Korea, South Korea and Japan"

Because that's your argument, it's a good game that was put down by a political boycott.

Frankly you are all over the place on Half Life.

The black ops are also taking out marines, this is true, but they are both working to eliminate you, the player.

Black ops only attack the few Marines in your group in Opposing Force where you are a Marine that is not the orders. The black ops and Marines fight closely with each other and are never seen fighting each other in Half Life nor Blue Shift.

Don't you love it when fans of half life assume anyone who also talks about half life hasn't played the games.

Well you are talking about them as if you've never played the games.

The fact is the principal antagonist in Half Life is the US Marine Corps, and you are either ignorant or deceptive to lead people to believe otherwise.

So basically, if a professional reviewer doesn't say it, people weren't saying it? I've given you proof, its not hard to find more, all you have to do is google the reveal trailers and trail back through the comments, people were all over this. Refusing to look at the proof that is there does not make you right, you're better than that. Actually look up what you're arguing.

Modern warfare

The reason Modern warfare didn't tank is because the game that got everyone into it was extremely good for its time. I would be talking about COD4. The story was believable (terrorists want to get ahold of nukes) and not overdone at the time. Then people stayed for the multiplayer.

Then people started getting it purely for the multiplayer. Yet again, not an issue i've only just made up. Professionally paid reviewers have said that the story is fine, while long time fans who actually get into the game (that would apparently be you and half life) disagree because the story is crap and the multi is good.

Hell, I can count the number of people I know who have completed COD MW3's multiplayer on one hand if I include myself. I'd need 10 hands to count the number of people I know that own the game.

*Sigh* half life wankery, again...

They never fight eachother in the first half life because unless i'm missing a scene, they're never in the same room together. The AI is coded to fight alongside eachother but in opposing force they do indeed attack the military and the military is taken completely by surprise. They work alongside eachother until the black ops guys stab them in the back.

Go back and play the games again. Fuck, there's even a conversation between black ops soldiers talking about how they hate the marines because they always have to clean up their mess. There are radio transmissions of the soldiers being completely surprised by black ops attacking them.

You're wrong. I'm leaving it at that because obviously, the notion that homefront tanked because it was a shooter that featured korea taking on america and almost winning is clearly without thought, despite evidence to the contrary.

Sources:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Ops
http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Ops?action=history

Look, i've even given you the page history, so just in case "anyone can edit it" crosses your mind again, you can fucking check.

I dabbled with the idea a while back where you play a European (Danish in my script, but any Scandinavian country, Germany, Poland, Austria and Switzerland all work equally well) who is caught between the invading American and Russian forces - both of whom are racing to capture mainland Europe as WWIII breaks out - either picking a side or fighting both of them.

It might even give you some different gameplay where Russians attack in larger numbers with brute force (lots of mechanized units, large infantry troops), and the Americans use more close-air support (helicopters, drones), small fireteams of elite soldiers and generally approach you more cautiously as opposed to the more aggressive but easier to predict Russians.

BLAHwhatever:

Well, during my playthrough when the game came out I never got the feeling I was fighting America/Americans. I was fighting aliens and faceless soldiers in full body armor.

image

They're clearly American.

What, do they have to be waving american flags and wear cowboy hats for it to be enough for you?!?!? I don't know what you problem is, pal, or what you want to kill in FPS games.

Treblaine:

The GTA series... can be summed up as... shooting American cops en mass. It's one of the MOST PROFITABLE video game series!!!

I had to check, this is in fact the "Gaming Discussion" website, only half the comments here seem to be TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to the most popular video games ever made.

Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game. The objective is, most of the time, to take revenge/kill other criminals/fuck shit up. The game has a lot of self-irony towards american habits and such, I'll give it that, with all the news and talk-channels/commercials. You're also not playing a "hero" like in most FPS-games.

You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops, killing good ones in the process which the game will try and punish you for.

"Sure, I'm killing cops, but that's not the objective of the game."

When has killing been the objective anywhere else?!? In most games you can jsut run past the enemies, the objective it to get to progress through the level, or get certain items. Really you are talking like a conservative TV anchor when you talk as if "killing is the objective".

"You're a criminal fighting other criminals and corrupt cops"

Cops are the main opponent to your freedom in the game not because they are corrupt, but because you committed crimes. There is nothing corrupt about cops chasing criminals that is this job! If you don't kill anyone, steal anything or destroy anything the cops will completely ignore you in the GTA games. The games will be very boring, as they are all about being a criminal and I'll tell you, the principal overriding antagonist of criminals IS law enforcement.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone can play ANY video game and ever HONESTLY claim they aren't ever fighting and killing Americans.

When I say I'd like to see America portraied in a bad way. Imagine one of those Call of Duty introductions you get to see before missions, that tell you the story why you're going where you're going telling you America invaded this country, killed that many people, nuked that city and you are supposed to kill one of their generals.
All the shit you get told with Russians, arabs, North Koreans, Germans, Africans, whatever, just with Americans instead.

There's potential for a decent story in that, I feel. And I'd like to experience that.

But that would be exceptional demonisation of America.

Look at how the Russians were depicted as the antagonists (notice the term I sued there, not "bad guy") in Modern Warfare 2, they weren't attacking america because they are evil, but because they think America is responsible for a terrible massacre at their airport. And it turns out they weren't entirely wrong, as General Shepard seems to have in some way been behind it and intended to provoke the war.

Hell COD4 the opening they give a chance for the big bad guy to give a speech for why he hates America, going on about how his land was "prostituted" to America, it never says why Russia was deserving of any attack, only the antagonists stating why AMERICA was deserving of attack.

This doesn't seem to be about gameplay, this seem to be about indulging your prejudiced political views at the expense of others.

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