Game Grumps: Egoraptor Hated Old Dante.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Well I never liked Dante as a character. I never gave a shit about the story in DMC games either though. I just enjoyed the gameplay.

Dante is, and shall forever remain, one of my favourite characters.

He's half human so the comments about that were half wrong.

Scared? Dante? Why the feth would anyone want him to be scared?

Those have to be the worst reasons for not liking a character i've heard.

But, each to their own.

Well it's just not to Arin's taste. He doesn't like it and he stated his opinion. I'm inclined to agree with him. It's shallow and boring and unrelateable. A character with zero vulnerabilities is the laziest piece of shit form of writing.

Granted, the DMC games were never meant to be games where you cared about the characters. You were there to kill giant monsters and see goofy antics (or were they? That fucking LIIIIIIIIIGHT scene trying to tug on heartstrings in the worst way possible makes me doubt that theory...)

And you're entitled to it.

I did understand "Overly Cool" as something of "Trying way too hard to make him cool", in the end is a matter of opinion, I like Dante but I can definetly see why someone could be bothered by it. Hell, I got bothered by it while playing Devil May Cry 4, they went a little overboard with Dante there... So I kinda see his point.

Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

I remember that too.

What's even worse is that Bayonetta is basically a feminist's nightmare of an extremely sexualized over the top woman. Basically, a Dante with big tits and ass. So why like Bayonetta yet hate Dante is very strange.

Fixed the thread title for ya. Please do not post misleading information.

Why do characters have to be relateable? Why can't they just be entertaining?

I prefer characters I can't related to since I'm a weak little girl who can't fight off hordes of demons or run across walls or take on an entire army by myself.

My first thought is, who cares if he dislikes the old Dante? Do you really need your opinion validated by someone thats in no authoritarial position?

For what its worth, Dante never showed fear because he had been through all kinds of danger before the game began. Even in the prequel (Devil may cry 3) he had seen a lot of stuff before. So if 3 is any indication I think its fair for him not to show fear against many of the creatures in the original Devil may cry. So even though I wonder why anyone cares about Egoraptors opinion I also think hes talking out his butt

TehCookie:
Why do characters have to be relateable? Why can't they just be entertaining?

Yeah, I see people stating these high and academic things about how this is not up to standards or that, hence they are bad. Well, yeah - Dante isn't up to standards as a character. I still find him entertaining. I still find other things entertaining, even though they seemingly "fail" other standards.

TehCookie:
I prefer characters I can't related to since I'm a weak little girl who can't fight off hordes of demons or run across walls or take on an entire army by myself.

You can't?! But...I-I...I always looked up to you. I wanted to be just like you when I grew up. And now you destroyed my dreams D:

DoPo:

TehCookie:
Why do characters have to be relateable? Why can't they just be entertaining?

Yeah, I see people stating these high and academic things about how this is not up to standards or that, hence they are bad. Well, yeah - Dante isn't up to standards as a character. I still find him entertaining. I still find other things entertaining, even though they seemingly "fail" other standards.

TehCookie:
I prefer characters I can't related to since I'm a weak little girl who can't fight off hordes of demons or run across walls or take on an entire army by myself.

You can't?! But...I-I...I always looked up to you. I wanted to be just like you when I grew up. And now you destroyed my dreams D:

Life is about destroyed dreams. If you haven't already now is the time to shave your head, grow a 5 o'clock shadow and become a cynical alcoholic to relate to all the other game characters.

TehCookie:

DoPo:

TehCookie:
Why do characters have to be relateable? Why can't they just be entertaining?

Yeah, I see people stating these high and academic things about how this is not up to standards or that, hence they are bad. Well, yeah - Dante isn't up to standards as a character. I still find him entertaining. I still find other things entertaining, even though they seemingly "fail" other standards.

TehCookie:
I prefer characters I can't related to since I'm a weak little girl who can't fight off hordes of demons or run across walls or take on an entire army by myself.

You can't?! But...I-I...I always looked up to you. I wanted to be just like you when I grew up. And now you destroyed my dreams D:

Life is about destroyed dreams. If you haven't already now is the time to shave your head, grow a 5 o'clock shadow and become a cynical alcoholic to relate to all the other game characters.

Will that at least let me move in slow motion on a whim?

DoPo:

TehCookie:

DoPo:

Yeah, I see people stating these high and academic things about how this is not up to standards or that, hence they are bad. Well, yeah - Dante isn't up to standards as a character. I still find him entertaining. I still find other things entertaining, even though they seemingly "fail" other standards.

You can't?! But...I-I...I always looked up to you. I wanted to be just like you when I grew up. And now you destroyed my dreams D:

Life is about destroyed dreams. If you haven't already now is the time to shave your head, grow a 5 o'clock shadow and become a cynical alcoholic to relate to all the other game characters.

Will that at least let me move in slow motion on a whim?

Only if you have enough energy in the bar in the corner of your vision.

TehCookie:

DoPo:

TehCookie:

Life is about destroyed dreams. If you haven't already now is the time to shave your head, grow a 5 o'clock shadow and become a cynical alcoholic to relate to all the other game characters.

Will that at least let me move in slow motion on a whim?

Only if you have enough energy in the bar in the corner of your vision.

Whew, that was close. I thought you'd totally shatter everything I've been living for. I have painted a full HUD on my glasses, I have energy bar, HP and everything. I knew these would come in handy some time in the future!

Meh... If he doesn't, he doesn't.

I don't necessarily need him to like Dante. I like him enough already.

Although I can get into a debate about this stuff. Like how Dante has been hunting demons practically all his natural born life. Either he copes and mans up or he wouldn't survive. But there you are.

And it's less that he's cool with stuff other than that he doesn't give a shit. The Opening of Devil May Cry proved that Dante was way beyond stronger than Trish. If he wanted to, Dane could have decimated her. And he likely knew that too. So why put up a fuss? And I also doubt he had any real attachment to most of the things in that office anyway. Maybe if she'd targeted the picture of his mother but the rest? Meh.

But yeah, my thoughts. I have more.

A character most DEFINITIVLY dosnt have to be relatable for me to like them.

Hell, theres only *ONE* character that I have found somewhat like me in ALL my 16 years of gaming so far (Louis from Left 4 dead), and yet I can assure you, than I like WAY more characters than just one.

Also... why the hell did OP get warned. It would be nice if the ninja mods could at least state the reason of why it did get warned. Most of the times is obvious enough, but other times, such as this one, is not really clear at all... They really cant make it so it says: "User received a warning for this post. Reason: (Insert reason here)".

So...characters must always show a sense of vulnerability in order for us to like them? That's really stupid. And too cool to be likeable? That seems like another bullshit reason to not like something.

Real Dante was always fine to me. The games I played with him were entertaining as hell. If you cant make someone well rounded, rule of cool works just as well.

He seems to miss the point of Dante by a mile. He was NOT supposed to be a relatable character, he was supposed to be entertaining and impressive. The writers of the series KNEW that and rolled with it, but instead of making him a grim and gritty wish fulfillment fantasy (like 90% of Western protagonists, oddly), they instead made him HORRENDOUSLY self-aware and over-the-top. He's like an old pulp hero like Doc Savage, Flash Gordon, or even James Bond. Sure, there's a little more depth to him (like his complex relationship with his brother as well as him trying to live up to his father's legacy), but the point is he was supposed to be FUN. He's an antidote to all the other videogame protagonists who are completely stuck up their asses in trying to be taken "seriously" and utterly fail at it.

TehCookie:
I'm a weak little girl who can't fight off hordes of demons or run across walls or take on an entire army by myself.

Well if i'd known that i'd have stolen that hat to start with instead of asking for it.

Your hat is mine puny mortal....

Although it will be mine another day I have the flu at the minute.

I happened to watch this episode earlier today, and I also thought that was a bit of a weird discussion. I don't think "coolness" has anything to do really with how relatable or well defined a character is.

Anyway, funny that this of all game grumps content gets a whole thread. I can think of a hell of a lot more stupid things that Arin has said on that show. He tends to be close-minded and pretentious when it comes to game design a lot of the time. I prefer when they just have fun and laugh while they're playing the game.

1. He's not wrong.

2. When they're just blabbing during Grump sessions, he's probably not putting in the time to think out long, well-reasoned defenses to his arguments, which is something he touched on during MAGFest.

Dante is a terrible character. Because he's part of a terrible story. Everything about the "old" Devil May Cry was completely over-the-top and ridiculously campy, including one-dimensional-protagonist Dante.

I will never cease to be amazed by the people who take the canon of Devil May Cry seriously. Capcom has some of the worst writers in the entire gaming industry, the only people who are consistently worse are probably Sonic Team. So, yeah, Dante is a bad character. But just because he's a bad character doesn't mean you're not allowed to like him, or think he's "cool". Just don't be surprised when people start criticizing him.

And this is coming from someone who does like "classic" Dante.

Considering this and the "Cracked thinks homefront is racist" topic up there, tonight seems to be "Someone has a different opinion to me, therefore they suck" night.

Although I disliked dmc4, I think that version was my favorite. The dialog didn't seem as forced(most of the time). But having listened to egoraptor's reasons, I think they're completely valid. He dislikes that particular archetype of character. I don't think he would like this new dante either.

Whether a character is "good" or "bad" depends on context. You can talk about how you like a character more than another, but that's entirely subjective. When you start calling characters you don't like bad, you lose a little integrity. I will freely admit that I have never beat a Devil May Cry game. I have the collection. I have all the time in the world to do it. I just won't. I hate the level design, I hate how closed in, confusing, and bland everything is, but I love Dante. It's funny that Egoraptor doesn't get this because he boasts about Zero all the time. Zero, at first, can seem too cool. In Megaman X, that's pretty much all there was to him. But you still wanted to be him because he was cool and capable. You saw him in action and thought, "Wow". Some of you, anyway.

That's who Dante is. Devil May Cry is taking that badass character, showing him being over the top, silly, campy, and fun, and then handing you the controller and allowing you to be him. That's why I pop in the disc from time to time. There's an almost guilty pleasure to it that no other game could quite capture, at least for me. There are so many beat 'em up games that capture the mechanics well, but they don't get the heart. And it's running around like a total tool, stringing up combos, being too cool for school, over the top, ridiculous, and dumb. Other games used that badass character to motivate you. You wanted to be them or beat them (but never in that same badass way, sadly). You were working up to being that powerful (but never that cool, sadly). In Devil May Cry, you ARE that guy. And it's magnificent.

He's a good character in that he fills a slot no other game or game series ever has, and even though I'm thoroughly convinced it's an accident, it's a marvelous accident. It may sound odd to some, but it's the purpose of the character in this case that makes him good. Great. Wonderful. Dante is one of the best characters in video games by that definition, and I proudly say so.

image

I'm really not sure what else I can say here. People have different opinions! Some people may like or dislike things which you dislike or like but it shouldn't mean you have to change yourself just because some random asshole says their own intake.

I disliked old Dante too. I thought he was an androgynous douchebag.

But then I think that about the new Dante too.

I don't like the new Dante as much as I liked the old. Mostly because it was refreshing to see a character that truly didn't give a shit and had fun with the game. Dante was supposed to represent the player who cared more about the crazy things he could do rather than his involvement with the story, hence why he's so happy whenever he gets a new toy and doesn't seem to be phased when he gets shot or skewered in a cutscene.

But at least new Dante isn't as bad as Nero.

Meh. I never liked nor respected game grumps (fuck me that's a stupid name), and this does nothing to change that.
I've only played DMC 4, but when I did, Dante was definitely a welcome replacement for whiny little Nero, whose only dialogue was "KYRIE!"

Good or bad character, it's all just opinions.

I just never understood what's wrong with a character being camp and over-the-top. It works for James Bond, it works for all the Warner Brothers cartoons.
You don't like it? Fine, don't make out that it makes for an objectively "worse" character though.

I... don't get it. So? He dislikes old Dante. So do I. What now? What is this thread for? Where is the discussion value?

Should we discuss how the opinion of guy A who clearly states that it is his opinion ("I dislike...", "I hate...") holds merit? It does not, it has as much merit as your and mine opinion on that subject matter.

Maybe I could takle your question... No, it does not work. There is always more to a character than 'overly cool' and it is always different executed. It is a characterisation which exectuion varies from writer to writer like seen in the new DmC.

Half the things they rant about on Game Grumps, especially in the Sonic videos, are at most half truths meant to get a laugh out of people. Did nobody watch Awesome May Cry?

Arin was referencing this animation short he did years ago.

I personally don't really like over-the-top characters outside of parodies, which DMC doesn't seem to be.

Doesn't really make them objectively bad characters though, just different.

Hagi:
I personally don't really like over-the-top characters outside of parodies, which DMC doesn't seem to be.

Doesn't really make them objectively bad characters though, just different.

Technically from a literature standpoint, Dante IS an objectively bad character. He's pretty much the definition of a flawless Marty Stu stereotype and would likely be completely unbearable if portrayed through something like a novel. But we have to keep in mind that he's not really there to present an intriguing character, he's the requisite bad ass propping up a hack and slash action game and in that context he ticks all the boxes.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here