Game Grumps: Egoraptor Hated Old Dante.

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Erin, Shame on you!How can you not like the Dante? He is the ultimate character that gamers can relate to. We all wanna have fun jugglig demons around. Not scowl on rooftops looking moody. That is Batman's job and territory.

To redeem yourself, You need to play DMC3 on game grumps...on DMD.

That Hyena Bloke:

Hagi:
I personally don't really like over-the-top characters outside of parodies, which DMC doesn't seem to be.

Doesn't really make them objectively bad characters though, just different.

Technically from a literature standpoint, Dante IS an objectively bad character. He's pretty much the definition of a flawless Marty Stu stereotype and would likely be completely unbearable if portrayed through something like a novel. But we have to keep in mind that he's not really there to present an intriguing character, he's the requisite bad ass propping up a hack and slash action game and in that context he ticks all the boxes.

Objectively bad? That's interesting, I wouldn't say that Dante's character is bad though I would agree the dialog is crapola 9 times out of 10. The deep story is there if you want one, and doesn't beat you over the head with it if you don't.

I don't really care who Egoraptor likes and dislikes because I know who I like and dislike and that's all that matters to me.

Another thing I've found is that the less relatable a character is to me, the more fun I have. I'd hate to play a game as myself because I don't like myself. On the other hand, I absolutely love playing as Rico Rodriguez because he's just not a random person. He's a super soldier who has lots of guns and other fun toys and also he can attach two helicopters to each other and fly them into a giant statue.

Shadowstar38:
So...characters must always show a sense of vulnerability in order for us to like them? That's really stupid. And too cool to be likeable? That seems like another bullshit reason to not like something.

Real Dante was always fine to me. The games I played with him were entertaining as hell. If you cant make someone well rounded, rule of cool works just as well.

What's being referred to is "psychological" vulnerabilities. The new DmC adds that in just enough doses for Dante to feel finally grounded in the lore. Otherwise, he's the same nigh-unkillable bastage you know and love, his "unkillable-ness" quotient depending largely on how good you are at the game.

Unless you go for "Heaven and Hell" or "Hell and Hell". Then Dante *really* becomes squishy. But that's largely for the masochist crowd.

I, for one, think the Rule of Cool has its limitations. I'm a copy editor for a living and I read *tons* of submitted pieces to student literary magazines. Sophomoric writers can invoke the Rule of Cool far too often, to the point where the end result is utterly unlikable. That's what happened with Old Dante. He could do *so much* quote-unquote "awesome shit" in so little time I'd start feeling burnt out. When do I get to start caring, in the old Devil May Cry titles? I'm not the kind of gamer who's sufficiently motivated by the gameplay's Score Attack elements. I need a story, I need reliable emotional hooks. I need to care about whatever it is I'm doing.

If you're one of those gamers who can just fire a game and just go wild without the least bit of emotional engagement, well... Good for you, I guess. My idea of fun doesn't involve getting Trophies or Achievements or obsessing over my Style rating at the end of each mission.

That Hyena Bloke:

Hagi:
I personally don't really like over-the-top characters outside of parodies, which DMC doesn't seem to be.

Doesn't really make them objectively bad characters though, just different.

Technically from a literature standpoint, Dante IS an objectively bad character. He's pretty much the definition of a flawless Marty Stu stereotype

...really? Maybe in the first one, but in 3 and 4, there's too much humour based around the character for the Marty Stu label to stick, IMO. I see Dante as more of a piss-take of that trope. Marty Stu characters are still characters the writer expects you to take seriously, whereas for the most part, DMC3/4 Dante is nothing but ludicrously flamboyant and over-the-top. I see him as more of a Trickster archetype than anything else- he has incredible strength and power, but is so very self-aware and lacking in seriousness that you're not expected to treat him like a typical 'hero'. Superman is a Marty Stu, as you're expected to take him seriously as a character, and he seems to have no idea of how ridiculous his own concept it. Dante, on the other hand, knows exactly how ridiculous he is, and plays it up even more. The fact that he's ultimately well meaning and good, but has a strong anti-authority streak puts him well in classical Trickster territory.

I've posted this in another thread, but it's worth posting again:

OT: I'm not a fan of Egoraptor at the best of times, but I don't understand this idea that a character has to be 'relatable' in order to be a good character.

I've just started reading the Sandman series by Neil Gaiman. It's a story about Morpheus, the King of Dreams, as he loses his powers and tries to regain his former place. As a character, he's thousands of years old, and regularly soliloquises about the politics of Hell, the nature of dreams or general out-there mindfuckery. As a character, he's completely unrelatable, being that he himself has very few human qualities. He operates on a level, both functionally and psychologically, much higher than your average Joe.

And yet, he's still a fucking great character. The fact that he's a millenia-old anthropomorphic personification of an abstract ideal does nothing to lessen the emotion of the story, and just how enjoyable it is to read.

A good story is a good story, regardless of whether the main characters are schmucks or not. The Iliad and The Odyssey are pretty much the foundation of Western literature and storytelling, and you know what? The main characters are all demi-gods, royalty and heroes of war. Nothing relatable about them at all, yet they're still great characters. Demanding that all characters be 'relatable' is a fucking boring way of telling a story, and it ignores the fact that psychologically, we're becoming more complicated all the time. 800 years ago, a relatable character to most people was someone who worked in a field all day, then got drunk and if they were lucky, had a spouse they could bang. Nowadays, relatable characters are people who go through complicated relationships, suffer philosophical and existential angst, suffer the highs and lows of 21st Century existence, and generally struggle their way through the myriad intricacies of modern-day life. If characters are meant to be relatable, then how should characters be fifty years from now? A hundred? Two hundred?

Rawne1980:
Dante is, and shall forever remain, one of my favorite characters.

Agreed. When listing iconic video game characters you just can't forget Dante.

Rawne1980:
He's half human

Most people don't seem to realize that Dante loathes the fact that he's half demon.

Rawne1980:
Scared? Dante? Why the feth would anyone want him to be scared?

Exactly. That's the thing that actually makes him relatable. Gameplay makes you feel awesome when you execute all those moves and combos, and you need a character who's just as awesome as the moves he can preform. Dante isn't scared because you as a player aren't scared. And it works.
It's also one of his most recognizable personality traits. He's confident to a point of arrogance. That's who he is. Changing that would be like making Solid Snake into a high school cheerleader.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Dante, on the other hand, knows exactly how ridiculous he is, and plays it up even more. The fact that he's ultimately well meaning and good, but has a strong anti-authority streak puts him well in classical Trickster territory.

Dante is kinda what The Joker would be like if he wasn't a deranged murderer.

IamLEAM1983:
I, for one, think the Rule of Cool has its limitations. I'm a copy editor for a living and I read *tons* of submitted pieces to student literary magazines. Sophomoric writers can invoke the Rule of Cool far too often, to the point where the end result is utterly unlikable. That's what happened with Old Dante. He could do *so much* quote-unquote "awesome shit" in so little time I'd start feeling burnt out. When do I get to start caring, in the old Devil May Cry titles? I'm not the kind of gamer who's sufficiently motivated by the gameplay's Score Attack elements. I need a story, I need reliable emotional hooks. I need to care about whatever it is I'm doing.

If you're one of those gamers who can just fire a game and just go wild without the least bit of emotional engagement, well... Good for you, I guess. My idea of fun doesn't involve getting Trophies or Achievements or obsessing over my Style rating at the end of each mission.

You didn't get any emotional vibes at all in any of the games? I found at least a couple in each.

What about in DMC 1 when Dante kills Nelo Angelo? And then you see that amulet that falls that looks exactly like the one Dante always carries? And then he picks it up and you get the audio flashback and we all realize: Shit, he just killed his lost brother! Damn it! I can't remember his expression but I'm pretty sure there was pain there. So now Mundus didn't just take Vergil away, but he took complete control, made him his slave and forced Dante to kill him. Grrrrr... More motivation.

DMC 2 and DMC 4 I don't believe had much as far as Dante went because they weren't exactly about him in a personal level. Both are pretty much Jobs that Dante took on/got hired for. So there wasn't anything personal in it for him.

Number 2 at least sorta just confirmed he's a good person behind all his coolness as we learn the coin gimmick he used to decide if he was going to help was double headed. So he was going to help anyway regardless. Of course, that made him a little bit pretentious which probably was another mark on the game. As Dante never really "hid" his nice side so much. If you saw it, you saw it. If you didn't, you didn't. But yeah, really the main emotional story in DMC 2 was focused on Lucia.

And DMC 4's emotional story was mostly about Nero. First going after Dante for vengeance then mostly ignoring him for his girlfriend and then teaming up with Dante later. There's no special thing about Dante helping Nero except the already established fact that Dante is a good person under all his badassness. Although separately, the mission was mostly Dante trying to retrieve his brother's sword, if I recall. So it's probably telling when the end of the game comes and he lets Nero keep Vergil's sword. I don't remember if it was in that gimmick of 'coming back for it one day' to imply they'd see each other again or whatever. But still.

DMC 3 was a combo. Focused on both Lady and Dante. With some Vergil mixed in. Lady's out on a mission of vengeance. Vergil's goal is to get some amazing power and become even stronger than his father, I think. Dante's goal is to stop him though not out of the goodness of his heart. Over the course of the game, Dante becomes less selfish and loses his disdain or whatever of his father and heritage, Lady comes to terms with her father and trusts Dante in spite of his demon blood and yadda, yadda.

But yeah, this was my impression of the games...

Adam Jensen:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Dante, on the other hand, knows exactly how ridiculous he is, and plays it up even more. The fact that he's ultimately well meaning and good, but has a strong anti-authority streak puts him well in classical Trickster territory.

Dante is kinda what The Joker would be like if he wasn't a deranged murderer.

Surprisingly so, actually.

What's always funny is when you look at some of the cutscenes in the DMC games not from Dante's perspective, but from the perspective of one of the other characters. There's a scene in DMC3 for instance where Dante meets up with Lady, starts off helping her fight some demons, then brushes her off and leaves her to deal with it by herself. The fact that we've been following Dante the entire time means we see it from his perspective, ie, she's already tried to shoot him, and she's obviously capable of looking after herself, so he's not already needed.

Look at it from her perspective, however, and Dante is this weird guy who keeps appearing out of nowhere, spouting one liners and engaging in ludicrous tricks like rocket surfing, then fucking off and usually leaving her in more of a mess than she was in before, such as hanging over a precarious drop thousands of feet up, or leaving her to face a demon horde. He's not bad for doing so, because we quite clearly see he has reasons to do so, but it still puts him in a very different character mould to traditional 'heroes'. A classic hero would have saved Lady from falling no questions asked, and stuck with her to defeat the demons. Instead, Dante's this weird guy who acts impulsively, and likes to follow up boss fights with screaming guitar solos.

Remind me again why we're supposed to care what this guy thinks?

He dislikes a character, where's the discussion value?

Well I liked Dante in DMC 1 he was just cool and a joke as well there wasnt much to him he was just terrible as a character but so likeable because he was so bad. In 2 onwards he just lost his charm I cant say anything about the new one because I havent played it but from the little I have seen and played he seems to be more fleshed out but not particularly likeable.

Bayonetta tries to follow in the original Dantes footsteps (DMC1 here ppl) but fails she controls much better and the game is better than DMC because of it but as a character she dosent nail the line between cheesy and engaging much like Dante in 2-4.

As for Egoraptor well I am not a fan neither do I lie Gamegrumps but he is entitled to his opinion like most people.......except you OFC yeah you!.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

...really? Maybe in the first one, but in 3 and 4, there's too much humour based around the character for the Marty Stu label to stick, IMO. I see Dante as more of a piss-take of that trope. Marty Stu characters are still characters the writer expects you to take seriously, whereas for the most part, DMC3/4 Dante is nothing but ludicrously flamboyant and over-the-top. I see him as more of a Trickster archetype than anything else- he has incredible strength and power, but is so very self-aware and lacking in seriousness that you're not expected to treat him like a typical 'hero'. Superman is a Marty Stu, as you're expected to take him seriously as a character, and he seems to have no idea of how ridiculous his own concept it. Dante, on the other hand, knows exactly how ridiculous he is, and plays it up even more. The fact that he's ultimately well meaning and good, but has a strong anti-authority streak puts him well in classical Trickster territory.

I've posted this in another thread, but it's worth posting again:

OT: I'm not a fan of Egoraptor at the best of times, but I don't understand this idea that a character has to be 'relatable' in order to be a good character.

I've just started reading the Sandman series by Neil Gaiman. It's a story about Morpheus, the King of Dreams, as he loses his powers and tries to regain his former place. As a character, he's thousands of years old, and regularly soliloquises about the politics of Hell, the nature of dreams or general out-there mindfuckery. As a character, he's completely unrelatable, being that he himself has very few human qualities. He operates on a level, both functionally and psychologically, much higher than your average Joe.

And yet, he's still a fucking great character. The fact that he's a millenia-old anthropomorphic personification of an abstract ideal does nothing to lessen the emotion of the story, and just how enjoyable it is to read.

A good story is a good story, regardless of whether the main characters are schmucks or not. The Iliad and The Odyssey are pretty much the foundation of Western literature and storytelling, and you know what? The main characters are all demi-gods, royalty and heroes of war. Nothing relatable about them at all, yet they're still great characters. Demanding that all characters be 'relatable' is a fucking boring way of telling a story, and it ignores the fact that psychologically, we're becoming more complicated all the time. 800 years ago, a relatable character to most people was someone who worked in a field all day, then got drunk and if they were lucky, had a spouse they could bang. Nowadays, relatable characters are people who go through complicated relationships, suffer philosophical and existential angst, suffer the highs and lows of 21st Century existence, and generally struggle their way through the myriad intricacies of modern-day life. If characters are meant to be relatable, then how should characters be fifty years from now? A hundred? Two hundred?

Thing is, I've come to realize that people using "relatable" is just they're way of saying "well, my characters are BETTER." That's a load of shit. Dante DOES have some more grounded characteristics, such as his complex relationship with his brother and his issues with his father. However, TONS of great characters in fiction are not relatable. Michael Corleone, James Bond, the Man with No Name, Doc Savage, Allen Quatermain, the Doctor, Charles Foster Kane, Tony Soprano, Tyrion Lannister, damn-near every superhero EVER. Besides, if you relate to an asshole like the one NT made, then you got some issues to take care of

I haven actually played DMC old or new but simply from watching videos I can tell that old Dante was far less insufferable than new Dante, and like the guy above my says if you find new Dante "relateable" you have deep seated issues (and I imagine a very large collection of hot topic merchandise). As for Egoraptor I almost never agree with him and my reaction do his reasoning ranges from "understand but disagree" to "really? are you sure you are gonna go with that?" but he is entitled to his opinion as much as I am entitled to think he is a moron half the time.

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

Dante just constantly tries to act 'too cool for anything' throughout the entire series, and it just ends up looking really cliche and cheesy.

Bayonetta on the other hand comes out with more sass, acting like less like some hipster who's trying to look like they don't give a damn and acting with more class, ridiculing and flirting with her enemies as she kills them.

With Dante you just laugh at the character, with Bayonetta you laugh with the character.

I find "2cool4u" characters extremely grating. That's the main reason why I hate Sonic. Whatever greatness might be in the game play is completely destroyed by sonic being the "you're too slow!", sun glasses wearing, chili-dog eating pain in the ass that he is

There is one thing I've learned in the past few months and that is not to insult Dante.

Most of the posts in this topic criticizing Arin's opinion begin with a failure to understand the concept of relatability and run with that, thus entirely failing to understand Arin's argument.

For example:

Anastasia Steele, main character of Fifty Shades of Grey. Normal person. Relatability Level: Extremely low.

Lelouch vi Britannia, main character of Code Geass. Genius, sociopathic ex-royalty with a magic eye and commanding an army of terrorists. Relatability Level: Fairly high.

Now I've never played Devil May Cry even once, so I can't comment on the particulars, but hopefully those examples were somewhat illustrative of how little relatability has nothing to do with how "like you" a character is.

Aiddon:

Besides, if you relate to an asshole like the one NT made, then you got some issues to take care of

If you judge people based on what characters they can relate to, you have have some issues to take care of yourself.

OT: Eh, I agree that he isn't a "good character" in the traditional sense (he is not deep at all; he is in fact quite shallow), but he is certainly a memorable and entertaining one. I just think it is his attitude that really turns some people off, like Nathan Drake.

The more concerned one gets with other people's opinions, the worse you get in formulating your own. Ok maybe that doesn't apply to everyone, but it certainly does with me I found.

When I first played a DMC game (DMC3, I was a lil late to the party) I didn't like Dante at all. Thought he was the biggest douchebag with only forced campy lines and waaaay too cool for school. It took a while for me to "get it", if you're taking Dante seriously you're doing it wrong. He's exactly what he's set out to be, and does it perfectly. And it matches his arrogant fighting style and in a way spurs you on into stylish brawling with as much variety and flawless coolness as possible. Story? Pfft, screw that, story didn't make enough sense for me to care about it anyway, though I loved the huge fights and the setup to each, which in a way was like a quick-paced manga episode, with a demon boss at the end of each one.

The opening scene of DMC3 is awesome and sets the tone for the rest of the game. He has a demon hunting business, he's not quite human, aaaaand....that's it. The rest is about eating pizza, pulling out blades stuck into his body and surfing on dead bodies while shooting pool balls thrown up in the air. What could be more awesome than that.

IamLEAM1983:

Shadowstar38:
So...characters must always show a sense of vulnerability in order for us to like them? That's really stupid. And too cool to be likeable? That seems like another bullshit reason to not like something.

Real Dante was always fine to me. The games I played with him were entertaining as hell. If you cant make someone well rounded, rule of cool works just as well.

What's being referred to is "psychological" vulnerabilities. The new DmC adds that in just enough doses for Dante to feel finally grounded in the lore. Otherwise, he's the same nigh-unkillable bastage you know and love, his "unkillable-ness" quotient depending largely on how good you are at the game.

Unless you go for "Heaven and Hell" or "Hell and Hell". Then Dante *really* becomes squishy. But that's largely for the masochist crowd.

I, for one, think the Rule of Cool has its limitations. I'm a copy editor for a living and I read *tons* of submitted pieces to student literary magazines. Sophomoric writers can invoke the Rule of Cool far too often, to the point where the end result is utterly unlikable. That's what happened with Old Dante. He could do *so much* quote-unquote "awesome shit" in so little time I'd start feeling burnt out. When do I get to start caring, in the old Devil May Cry titles? I'm not the kind of gamer who's sufficiently motivated by the gameplay's Score Attack elements. I need a story, I need reliable emotional hooks. I need to care about whatever it is I'm doing.

If you're one of those gamers who can just fire a game and just go wild without the least bit of emotional engagement, well... Good for you, I guess. My idea of fun doesn't involve getting Trophies or Achievements or obsessing over my Style rating at the end of each mission.

The problem is, those writers you edited for may have just been adding cool stuff because they couldn't personally come to anything deeper. I'd personally rather have an awesome roller coaster ride than sit through thrash. And that's pretty much what DmC was.

Ninja Theory didn't bring their usual A game when it came to writing the story this time. The result is something where they tried for something compelling and ended up falling flat.

This all depends, is Arin referring old Dante from DMC1 or old Dante from DMC3?

Because he is not wrong when he says Dante is a bad character. Considering his personality just didn't fit well in DMC1. DMC3 though....
Thats where he was intentionally supposed to be this over the top, goofball badass in a story that actually doesn't call for his criteria of character. That is until near the end of the game and considering his brother is a long for the ride, parts like those really bring out his true character.

Now relatable? No. Fun to be around with to watch cause shenanigans in serious situations, Yes.

Whats hard to get that he is written to be a fun character and nothing more or less. Then again, opinions.

A Smooth Criminal:

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

Dante just constantly tries to act 'too cool for anything' throughout the entire series, and it just ends up looking really cliche and cheesy.

Isn't it kinda ironic to call Dante's character cliché when there's really no other characters like him? Actually, it's not only ironic, but a plain misuse of the word. Bayonetta is probably the only one that comes close to his style, but even she's got her own thing going.

game-lover:
Good points, but...

It's not so much the intent that hurt the series. I could definitely see they were gunning for some kind of motivating pathos in all of the game. The problem is, the series' Rule of Cool made most, if not all of the "poignant" moments clash in an odd way. I didn't go through them thinking "Well, now. There's an interesting or unfortunate turn of events; I'm motivated to keep plugging ahead to see how Dante fares further down the line!"

Most of the time, these moments (to me, at the very least) felt like really hackneyed attempts to make the game more credible, when so much effort has been placed on making the whole thing as silly and trivial as possible.

Essentially, I'm made to believe that a guy who obsesses on style and who acts flippantly at pretty much anything and anybody can suddenly be knocked out of that hard shell of douchebaggery because of the sight of a single locket? And after, oh, one sad look, it's back to the demon-slaying?

Nope. I'm sorry. I've always felt like the whole "Devil May Cry" concept is part of the usual habit the Japanese have of twisting European mythology out of shape, adding supposedly badass elements for the sake of adding them, and seeing where this goes. All I was getting was the sense that Capcom was shaking its arms at me and leaping around frantically, going "LOOK! THIS HAS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT AND AWESOMESAUCE COMBOS AND HEROES THAT DON'T GIVE A SHIT OHGOD THAT'S SO NINETIES AND EDGY! PLEASE BUY IT NOW!"

The new one? Well, the script's not going to get anyone a Pulitzer, but we're nowhere near close to getting gaming's piece of Great National Software, either. The whole jab at media corporations and the soft drink industry feels like the sort of thing a suddenly very politically conscious, clumsy and raw teenager would put together - but it feels more honest. More straightforward and less indulgent.

Between a guy who has a palpable cause and who becomes a somewhat likeable person without relying on blink-and-you'll-miss-them signs of empathy; and a guy who just does his thing because, fuck it, that's too fucking cool for words and shit - I'll pick the first option.

New Dante doesn't react strongly, but when he does react, it feels appropriate to the script. His personal struggle doesn't get lost amid the jumping puzzles and the sprawling interiors. I don't know - it just feels to me like DmC is much more focused. It delivers a tighter narrative experience, and I'm grateful for it.

That's just me, though.

Look, I really like Arin and Jon's work (both separately and together), but unless I know someone personally, I don't put a lot of weight into opinions when the clash. Obviously when I agree I think "right on!" but that's because we'd be agreeing.

His criticism of Dante/Shadow/Rule of Cool characters is perfectly valid. It's just also okay to like to play as a super badass who has all of zero fucks to give. I wouldn't lump Kratos and Dante together like he did, but not because it wouldn't apply, but because Kratos is a rage cannon, not obnoxious douchebag.

Geez, why even get into this discussion? Arin also hates Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time...
...and any sensible gamer and commenter knows that when he mentioned that, it was the equivalent of starting a damned war crime.

But I won't begrudge him of that, it's his opinion. Even if love both TMNT and Dante.

At the very least, JonTron shares my taste and approval on both matters.
Seriously, why is nobody mentioning Jon's thoughts, since he's the other half of the Grumps?

Shadowstar38:
So...characters must always show a sense of vulnerability in order for us to like them? That's really stupid. And too cool to be likeable? That seems like another bullshit reason to not like something.

Real Dante was always fine to me. The games I played with him were entertaining as hell. If you cant make someone well rounded, rule of cool works just as well.

I can call your reasons for not liking something bullshit too. I don't, because subjective opinions are subjective and complaining that someone has a different opinion to you is not only incredibly petty, but wastes people's time. The best thing you can do is find someone who agrees with you and try to make a long lasting friendship out of it. Doing that will improve life for both you and the friend you find.

Just a flat out "Who Cares?"
Seriously, Game Grumps is just like every other shlock Let's Play out there. They're basically hamming it up/acting/derping it up to get views. They're just sitting around playing a game and bullshitting to crank out episodes and the more outlandish stuff they say the more views they get. Honestly after 4-5 episodes you have to realize they over exaggerate everything they do.

Jove:

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

I remember that too.

What's even worse is that Bayonetta is basically a feminist's nightmare of an extremely sexualized over the top woman. Basically, a Dante with big tits and ass. So why like Bayonetta yet hate Dante is very strange.

Aw, come on, you're misrepresenting feminists a bit there. They/we (insofar as a male can be a feminist) don't necessarily dislike the concept of sexualisation itself. I've seen plenty of people argue that Bayo is empowering, including the escapist's very own "female gamer panel".

Plus, she's not all about the "cool" factor. By the end I was surprised at how attached I'd gotten to the character (the supporting characters, too).

Am I the only one who actually read the OP in which he flat out states Egoraptor(whoever that is) never said any of this?

corneth:
I find "2cool4u" characters extremely grating. That's the main reason why I hate Sonic. Whatever greatness might be in the game play is completely destroyed by sonic being the "you're too slow!", sun glasses wearing, chili-dog eating pain in the ass that he is

A Smooth Criminal:

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

Dante just constantly tries to act 'too cool for anything' throughout the entire series, and it just ends up looking really cliche and cheesy.

Bayonetta on the other hand comes out with more sass, acting like less like some hipster who's trying to look like they don't give a damn and acting with more class, ridiculing and flirting with her enemies as she kills them.

With Dante you just laugh at the character, with Bayonetta you laugh with the character.


Surprised this hasn't been posted. Never really could accuse dmc of taking itself too seriously in 3&4.

Oh dear, someone has a different opinion than mine.

Better call their's pretentious rather than accept that people have different tastes, and reasons for those tastes.

I guess you're hoping for some sort of large reaction because it's heresy to say anything bad about the ridiculous overblown pile of wank that is Devil May Cry, in particular Dante, but really, come on. It's about whether you like something or not. You don't have to like everything, and there's nothing wrong with not liking something.

But since you loaded your spiel with how apparently his reasons are "Pretentious", I'll spin that back at you. If you think he's pretending to loftier standards (I really don't think you know what pretentious means, most who use it don't), that he doesn't hold, and that your undefined reason could be extrapolated to be simple-minded, shallow, and devoid of any critical merit.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

Denamic:

A Smooth Criminal:

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

Dante just constantly tries to act 'too cool for anything' throughout the entire series, and it just ends up looking really cliche and cheesy.

Isn't it kinda ironic to call Dante's character cliché when there's really no other characters like him? Actually, it's not only ironic, but a plain misuse of the word. Bayonetta is probably the only one that comes close to his style, but even she's got her own thing going.

No... Calling something cliche isn't a misuse of the word when I actually mean it's cliche.

Dante isn't the only character who acts like him. It's a character archetype you see commonly in japanese games and anime, and it's a REALLY dumb character personality that's so easily unlikable in my opinion.

And don't say I'm using a word wrong when you're only making assumptions... If I say cliche then I mean it.

Jove:
-snip-

You are analysing this as though Ego's made an analysis, a product ment to analyse Dante's character, that you are now analysing and critising. This is not the case. Some offhand comments do not represent his full and explained opinion. Saying it's pretentious and arrogant is a little arrogant in my opinion.

Rawne1980:
Dante is, and shall forever remain, one of my favourite characters.

He's half human so the comments about that were half wrong.

Scared? Dante? Why the feth would anyone want him to be scared?

Those have to be the worst reasons for not liking a character i've heard.

But, each to their own.

Just because he's not completely a human creature in the story does not mean any opinions on him not being like any of us is to be scoffed at. If Dante looked like a grey ball, would you still like him? Of course not. He needs to look human, and to be intriguing he needs to BE human, at least to a certain extent.

Ofcourse he doesn't need to be a pansy scared of anything, but having more emotions and reactions other than: "I am so cool so I do not care about anything" would make him a good character, which he is not. According to Egoraptor and some in here. Because I couldn't say definitely as I have not played any DMC game. Still, based on his appearance and what I've seen about him and read about him he's a very bad character. He IS apparantly only made to look cool and do cool things.

Jove:

scorptatious:
Didn't they say that they wanted to play Bayonetta in a previous video? I've never played Devil May Cry myself, but if Arin's description of Dante is any indication, Bayonetta is pretty much a female version of Dante.

I remember that too.

What's even worse is that Bayonetta is basically a feminist's nightmare of an extremely sexualized over the top woman. Basically, a Dante with big tits and ass. So why like Bayonetta yet hate Dante is very strange.

"I don't like Dante."

"We should play Bayonetta"

"Oh sure."

HEADLINES: EGORAPTOR SUPPORTS SEXISM AGAINST MEN.

Everyone on the internet is pretentious.

Dante has always been a fairly shallow character, a self-referential parody.

I mean, this

is freaking hilarious.

edit: oh, and defending Dante from the horrors of Pretension is actually ironically hilarious as well. I present again, exhibit A

well. uhmmm........hang on. let me get my internet prof shield up.
okay. soooooooooo. i ahhhh i kind of liked the new Dante.....don't hit me.
(i am not saying he's better than the old dante, but i am not saying the old one is the best either. but that may just be personal opinion. i like both)

Maybe he meant that there are no stakes or rules established.
See: Asuras wrath. Asura just punches through pretty much everything, there's nothing he can't beat so there is no reference to how much he struggles, even if the battle seemingly goes bad he just pulls some sort of super power straight out of his ass and wins anyway.

Dante is kinda similar. At one point, he even gets impaled by his own sword and is kinda just "eh" so it's never clear what can even touch the guy at all and if you have a character that is literally untouchable in more ways than one, that's kinda boring.

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