Jim Sterling says PS+ humiliates the game industry

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I stick with Xbox Live because I just like the system better. My friends all play on Xbox and we use the party chat system all the time. That being said... I FUCKING HATE Xbox Live. I don't have PS+ because I hardly play my PS3, but the $60 for a year of Xbox Live is a ridiculous price for things that I can already access for free (Hulu, YouTube, Internet access, most of the video player apps) or have to pay a subscription fee somewhere else (Comcast Xfinity app, Netflix). They keep adding on more stupid features that I will never use because I use my Xbox for gaming and occasionally as a DVD player, and then use that to justify forcing me to spend what is basically the cost of a brand new game every year. The final icing on the cake is the fact that in order to play freaking Spartan Ops on Halo 4 I need Xbox Live Gold. A mode that I am perfectly able to play alone (and by alone, I mean actually using the same conventions of a single-player game) on content that needed to be downloaded from Xbox Live, but I need a premium subscription to play it.

Treblaine:

You just proved me right... because you forgot what I said.

No I didn't. Your argument was that you can't get deals (or even look at the deals) on PSN without PSN+. You made some fanboyish claims about the PC vs consoles (an argument that is both tired and trite). And if I missed anything else, well, it's hard to decipher your argument past the yelling, hyperbole and misinformation. Most of your argument comes off as someone who has never even been in the same room as someone on PSN.

Finally, I posted what I did to put it all in perspective. If I get a 69% discount as a free user (1 person -results may vary, so keep your supposed and possible made number of 75% on Steam to yourself) then surely users who are paying for the service are seeing greater returns. Wasn't it mentionned somewhere that the content had a value of just over $2000? If someone was to obtain all that, then removing the $50 is a drop in the bucket.

Here's a thought, maybe actually boot up a PS3 and visit PSN before commenting next time?

s69-5:

Treblaine:

You just proved me right... because you forgot what I said.

No I didn't. Your argument was that you can't get deals (or even look at the deals) on PSN without PSN+. You made some fanboyish claims about the PC vs consoles (an argument that is both tired and trite). And if I missed anything else, well, it's hard to decipher your argument past the yelling, hyperbole and misinformation. Most of your argument comes off as someone who has never even been in the same room as someone on PSN.

Finally, I posted what I did to put it all in perspective. If I get a 69% discount as a free user (1 person -results may vary, so keep your supposed and possible made number of 75% on Steam to yourself) then surely users who are paying for the service are seeing greater returns. Wasn't it mentionned somewhere that the content had a value of just over $2000? If someone was to obtain all that, then removing the $50 is a drop in the bucket.

Here's a thought, maybe actually boot up a PS3 and visit PSN before commenting next time?

Your argument was that you can't get PSN deals without PSN+

That was PART of my argument that PS-Plus sucks, and it's TRUE a lot of deals you CANNOT get without subscribing to Playstation Plus.

I was only wrong that there were a few games that had discount promotions available to people who hadn't subscribed.

But still you are missing my central point of comparison of Steam (and other PC services) with Sony Store with and without Playstation Plus. That steam service offers more for less. It offers more discounts and NONE are placed behind any subscription wall. Anyone immediately right now can make a steam account and get access to these deals.

You have focused on the means to the end and forgotten the end in itself... getting better value for money.

You made some fanboyish claims

Look who's talking. And yet another in a long list of accusations without any explanation or examples, I don't even know what I have to amend in my approach. I've told you what you need to improve on: be specific.

yelling

It's text. Text cannot yell. One word in block capitals cannot constitute even figurative yelling. Where is the hyperbole? what misinformation? How can you make such accusations without examples.

If I get a 69% discount

Stating this AGAIN ignoring my counter point, this is disinformation and unlike your vague accusations I will be specific. I made clear that discount % is not illustrative of a better deal if they are discounting from a higher price, for example %66 off can be better than 75% off if it is 66% off $9.99 compared to 75% off $14.99.

then surely users who are paying for the service are seeing greater returns.

That logic doesn't follow, as people can be conned out of their money by paying first and accepting WHATEVER comes later when they wouldn't have bought it (even if they cost overall would be the same) because they haven't been roped into a financial commitment. It's mini-bar economics, just because someone drinks from the mini-bar doesn't mean it's good value for money.

Wasn't it mentionned somewhere that the content had a value of just over $2000?

Irrelevant, as it assumes you want every game on sale and want to get it on Playstation 3.

If I have 20 thousand items in my store and put 10c off each one, that's a "$2000 value". It's playing around with numbers in a way that is worthless to consumers just to make it seem good. Putting the really great deals behind a big subscription fee stops someone just taking a few deals from PS Plus, they have to go all-in and are oBLIGED to buy many more games than they necessarily want

This is accusation is regularly levelled against steam, but this is LITERALLY the situation with Playstation Plus, you MUST buy lots of games to just break even on PS Plus.

Here's a thought, maybe actually boot up a PS3 and visit PSN before commenting next time?

(1) I have, but stopped using it months ago as it was too damn depressing searching for anything that wasn't a rip off.
(2) how about you do the same for Steam and Gog.com particular www.steamprices.com

Even though I have an Xbox, I'm actually quite pleased by this turn of events. Hopefully, once microsoft has had it's ass kicked a little, they'll either make Live free or actually make the stuff they're charged even worth a damn.

TecnoMonkey:

Vault Citizen:
I know that any games I get for free with ps plus go once I stop paying for subscription but is that also true of games that I buy for a discounted price with a ps plus membership?

No, if you buy a game at a discount using Plus you can play it whenever you want.

Huh, I was worried that the opposite was true. Now that I know that my purchases would be safe I might actually renew my plus membership one day.

edit

Thank you for the help

While I agree that Xbox Live Gold isn't look worth the money that it used to, I'm more of a Halo person at heart and I do enjoy the Xbox Party system, even though it can be emulated through Skype or other alternatives. Regardless, I'm attracted to the service merely because it does happen to suit my needs... and because I honestly cannot play CoD on the PS3 controllers.

*shrugs*
Sony lost me as a customer long ago. When they demonstrated that they were willing and able to downgrade systems already purchased for the sake of profit, they lost me. I cannot trust a company who will do that; there's just way too much room for abuse.

On-topic.
Xbox Gold was overpriced?

Yup. That was the entire point: Entice, engage, expand, extort.
In the world of services, popularity, not quality or value, equals power.
They got away with charging 50 bucks a year for a service that's primarily advertisements for so many years solely on account of XBL's popularity (and Halo).

Microsoft banked on keeping their marginal lead over Sony long enough to exploit it, and the fact that it has taken Sony THIS LONG to make a noticeably better offer than MS suggests that they succeeded.

This doesn't surprise me; I've met people who were only too happy to upwards of 10 bucks on a fucking jpeg for their Dashboard.

I suspect the only reason Sony isn't also gouging customers in a similar manner is because they had Microsoft to compete with bringing PSN online years after XBox Live; playing from behind.
Fortunately, between the aforementioned competition and the fact that Sony's gaming division is still the only part of their company consistently making money they aren't likely to gamble what good-will they have at this stage.
It could sink the whole company if they did.

ShinyCharizard:

Supertegwyn:

krazykidd:
Ugh 4 $ a month isn't much , people spend more than that in coffee in a day . Plus i find XbL has a better internet connection than PS3, so if i'm paying 4$ a month to have a better connection with online games , i'll gladly pay.

Since when has that been the case? I have owned both in the past, and they each had equal internet connections.

I have both currently, and the Xbox is simply the better console for online play.

I dunno man, I have both as well (I have a PS3 and my brother has the 360) and I've never seen a difference online on comparable games.
For example, I literally can't tell the difference between connections for just about any CoD on either system, and even with the respective console's flagship online titles (lets go with Halo 4 and Killzone 3, both of which we have) I always connect even connections to full games.

Honestly, if I was to say anything, I'd actually say that the 360 has given us more trouble online, as it's broken down twice in the past year, whereas the PS3 never has in the two and a half years I've had it.

I've had a 360 (well, two because the first one died within two months) since 2007, and I haven't had XBL Gold since 2008. Seriously, why are they charging for Facebook apps that no one uses, ESPN apps that no one uses, music apps that no one uses, Netflix app that you have to pay even more to use? The biggest insult, however, is PAYING A MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION TO USE A GOOD CHUNK OF A GAME YOU PAYED $60 FUCKING DOLLARS FOR! What the hell? It really annoys me that people continue to justify that abysmal business practice. While PS+ sounds better than XBL by a million years, I'll still stick with Steam. Massive sales, free weekends, cloud saves for most of my games and all of it for free.
I will say, however, that I really do wish I had gotten a PS3 instead of an xbox often these days. It was great for a few years, what with all my friends playing the same games as me on the same system, but that dried up real quick and I was left with a system with none of the exclusives I actually want. It also has an interface that ISN'T a nightmare to use.

You know what I like about Playstation Plus? It's OPTIONAL, you don't HAVE to get it to enjoy just about everything on the PS3. Unlike Xbox 360 where if you DON'T get Gold you more or less cut yourself off from at least 50% of the digital content of the system. And even when you DO get Gold, LIVE still shoves ad's into you home screen. The hell Microsoft, I already paid you why are there ad's using up my homescreen?

I love PS+, if it weren't for the fact that I've been fairly broke lately I would have renewed it. As it stands however, my internet despises my PS3 so I don't even bother trying to play games online with it. When it takes over 8 hours just to download a demo while my PC and Xbox 360 handle that volume of data in less than half the time on the same connection, I know it's the service itself.

Bottom line is, PS+ is more customer friendly, but LIVE is overall a more smooth experience with my time with it. At least in my opinion.

360 online play is superior to PS3. Live has party chat- if you only use party chat to talk to your friends, you basically have a $60 per year phone bill! They have built Xbox Live into a social platform, largely through party chat. Get online, talk to your friends, hang out virtually, play games, Netflix vid parties were great til that disappeared. I think its great from that standpoint, as I'm away from home for college, and in general have friends and family scattered across a few time zones. It's all about if you can justify the cost. I can, some can't. Don't use it. Remember Xbox Live was born in the time of 56k modems, when the infrastructure wasn't as good as it is now (still not as good as it could be), and online games clogged up the tubes. All they do is say "look at these numbers, they keep growing, well don't change anything." $60 a year is negligible for what we get.

I have been a member since June 2011 and I will continue to subscribe to it because it is a guarantee that I will make up that much in savings during the year. The other reason I love it is because it actually rewards people who subscribe to it with discounts early access to demos, betas, and an online cloud storage system in the event something happens to your system.

Xbox live gold.....wow a whole 40 a year. Thats really breaking the bank, a whole 3 a month. Yep, MS are really ripping us off. Ok its not free, but still its not a rip off. Its very reasonable i think when you think they could charge a whole lot more if they wanted. End of the day its used for early demo usage and online gaming.....every thing else is a bonus.

End of the day if you use it loads then you get your moneys worth. I dont play games online so Live would be a waste, if you game with friends online everyday then its a bargain.

But, given all my talking, i would prefer all gaming online to be free just so you have the option down the line. Even if they had a free week every month for everyone to game online. Im sure next gen will be free.

I currently own more PS Vita games, than games for my 3DS, and I don't even own a PS Vita.

PS+ is great, I can download games and play them for free and the best thing is it crosses from my PS3 and my PS Vita with a single subscription. Getting discounts on brand new games in the PS store too.

Sony really have kicked Microsoft in the nuts with this.

God Jim can be such a dick for no reason.

Get a job. It's $4 dollars a month for an online service that people actually use.

If people used PS+, it would cost more money. But no, Jim has to be all "M$ is stealing your money. They are an evil corporation but Sony is a god-send that would never do anything to hurt you."

Even worse, he's talking down to the 360 users like people who have a 360 are morons.

I'm not a moron Jim... I'm just not a cheap piece of shit.

Its not the price of X-box live that's the problem:

The problem is me paying them for the privilege of using my internet connection...that I pay for.

ShinyCharizard:

Supertegwyn:

krazykidd:
Ugh 4 $ a month isn't much , people spend more than that in coffee in a day . Plus i find XbL has a better internet connection than PS3, so if i'm paying 4$ a month to have a better connection with online games , i'll gladly pay.

Since when has that been the case? I have owned both in the past, and they each had equal internet connections.

I have both currently, and the Xbox is simply the better console for online play.

Can you substantiate that claim? You say it's better, why, how? Do you have anything to back it up other than your personal, subjective experience?

People have probably already said it, but the fact that Xbox advertises all over your dashboard even when you pay the subscription fee is ridiculous.

SonOfVoorhees:
Xbox live gold.....wow a whole 40 a year. Thats really breaking the bank, a whole 3 a month. Yep, MS are really ripping us off. Ok its not free, but still its not a rip off. Its very reasonable i think when you think they could charge a whole lot more if they wanted. End of the day its used for early demo usage and online gaming.....every thing else is a bonus.

Everyone's argument when justifying Xbox live subscription fees is that its only a couple of dollars, that its so cheap... I'd like to think that that's the argument the British used when they taxed the colonists...

Anyway, the fact that almost every service offered through subscription fees is offered for free on PC and console means they are ripping gamers off. PS3 has a wide variety of TV and music apps, maybe not 100% of the ones Xbox offers, but at least 80%. And they're all free on PC. Demos are free on PC and PS3, you don't have to pay for the right to download it early lol. What other things do they offer as a bonus? The only thing I can think of is Party Chat, and yes, that's a really good feature that's missed on PS3, but guess what, I can go on any number of services on PC and use them to voice chat for free with many more than 8 people. Microsoft isn't giving you a reasonable offer considering everyone else doesn't charge for these "Privileges"

Sylveria:

ShinyCharizard:

Supertegwyn:

Since when has that been the case? I have owned both in the past, and they each had equal internet connections.

I have both currently, and the Xbox is simply the better console for online play.

Can you substantiate that claim? You say it's better, why, how? Do you have anything to back it up other than your personal, subjective experience?

Party chat plus unified online system for every game. That is why it is better

Oh god I I think I finally finished reading all that Lol but yeah PS plus does seem like an awesome deal. Too bad Im flat broke lately V.V . Honestly if xbox live just added a bit more it would probably be worth it but as of right now, I personally think it isnt.
On a side note, reading treblaine's comments made me laugh so hard. So much hypocrisy and elitism. Sorry Treblaine but it kinda was funny to read.

Crono1973:

PlayStation Plus is one of the most consumer-friendly, convenient, and worthwhile ideas to hit the PlayStation 3. More importantly, in an industry where publishers are trying to take more money than ever for less content, Sony's the guiding light in how to draw a steady payday from users in a way that makes everybody happy.

The company recently revealed Plus' discounts and giveaways amounted to a cumulative $2,472 in 2012. While it's unlikely a customer downloaded absolutely everything required to get these savings, it would be quite easy to at least make back the $50 entry fee in content.

Compare this to Microsoft, a company struggling more and more to justify its subscription service with a straight face. The Xbox 360 owner has systematically worked to hold its content to ransom in an increasingly futile bid to make Xbox Live Gold look worth its fee. The biggest feature is, of course, online play -- something available for free on PS3, Wii U, and PC. The company took something that was already a given, and held it back.

Read more at http://www.destructoid.com/plus-points-sony-s-ps-plus-humiliates-the-game-industry-243470.phtml#fAkkciFgBbDv0B82.99

So, discuss. I think he's correct.

Glad to know that somebody's at least trying the Steam business model that Valve originated.

I prefer my xbox because it's what I'm most invested in; All my friends, online or not, have xbox and we like party chat.
I've got a pretty bitchin' game library now on there,
I can't be bothered to get a new pc and then faffing with it to get games running,
I never pay 40 for live, each year I've averaged paying about 20 for it, I can distinctly afford this without even thinking.
But I think the most important factor is: I don't really care.

I like my xbox, it does what I need it to, and does it well.
Anyone that argues against that is just arguing for the sake of it.

Darren Carrigan:
As someone who owned both a PS3 and an Xbox I used both for internet play until around 2009.
Then I moved and didn't have enough room in my smaller room for both consoles and had to pick one to sell.
Picked the PS3 due to the fact I felt Xbox Live was better, if pressed today I am 89% sure I'd make the same choice.

Captcha:
Love you

- I love you too Captcha

What was your reason? Why choose xbox live over ps3?

LuckyClover95:

Darren Carrigan:
As someone who owned both a PS3 and an Xbox I used both for internet play until around 2009.
Then I moved and didn't have enough room in my smaller room for both consoles and had to pick one to sell.
Picked the PS3 due to the fact I felt Xbox Live was better, if pressed today I am 89% sure I'd make the same choice.

Captcha:
Love you

- I love you too Captcha

What was your reason? Why choose xbox live over ps3?

Personally I have found Xbox Live to be a better platform for online gaming in terms of server quality and community.

Now I don't say that everyone on XBL are my best friends that hold great conversation with great sensitivity for everyone.

But the % of assholes on PSN was much higher in my experience
And I got less connection trouble,server lag disconnects and such on XBL.
I'm glad that I never had a credit card on my account on either platforms due to the fact that it was such a tough call and I could have beenthe victim of the PSN hacking had I not went for XBL over PSN.

I'd have to think about it for a while to come up with longer or clearer answers - these are the first 2 that came to mind at 00:33am

Ps3 is pretty great. I think so, anyway

The one edge I'd say XBL has over PSN is cross-game chat, since I appreciate being able to play shooters or fighters while my friend is playing a single-player game in some radioactive wasteland. Whether this is worth $5/month is up to you.

Also I've been wondering what incentive Sony has for giving a consumer hundreds of dollars worth of content for $50. Not that I don't appreciate the offer, I'm just wondering if Sony is just ending up losing money more than anything.

I'm never going to praise to the play station marketplace, after discovering having used it for the first time last month. I hate its utterly foul wallet system with a passion, and I don't care what discounts the premium version offers because frankly, paying for set amounts of credit before I can buy a game undermines those discounts anyway. The same goes for Microsoft's point system. Fuck 'em both. I'm sticking with PC's Steam and hard copies.

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