Silent Hill series

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ToastiestZombie:
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Hm, they had afew good points (such as the fresh paved roads - which i DID notice. As well as a few censored scenes). The rest of it, (particulary part 2) just came off as whiny bitching of the hardcore fans :/ Especially when they got to the audio changes. Which is just personal taste IMO.

Im convinced that the technical issues only existed in the ps3 version. Every problem i have seen has been in the ps3 version. I played it on 360, and there was definitley no slow-mo parts for example.

mohit9206:
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I enjoyed downpour. It wasnt particulary scary (certainly creepy, might be desensitized at this point though) and they REALLY dropped the ball on monster designs. But the spin on the rain being a bad thing and the return to more exploration and puzzles, rather than combat was good. It felt like they were starting to "get" what the older silent hill games were about. I liked that they made it semi-open world too. With many sidequests to do. Had some weird glitches and a REALLY jumpy framerate though.

Unfortunatly i doubt downpour is going to come to PC. Downpour didnt sell that well, and i THINK the dev that made it has been shut down :/ A shame.

EmperorSubcutaneous:
I have, actually...Like I said, I've been getting into David Lynch and Stephen King recently. And one of my favorite movies of all time is The Haunting (1963).

Good, then I'm sure you'll be quick to realise that the influence of traditional Japanese horror in the Silent Hill series was next to nil (save, as always, for SH4).

Dfskelleton:
Also, I think someone mentioned this before, and I can't agree more; a lot of people confuse "psychological horror" and "Japanese horror".
Frankly, Japan's traditional style of horror is actually a little bit goofy, at least to me. Sure, we've got serial killers in rubber masks slaughtering idiotic teenagers, and just as that gets old for us, I'm sure a lot of them are a bit tired of the "creepy little ghost kid" thing as well. And, just like us, Japan gets maybe a few good horror flicks every once in a while, amidst a sea of knockoffs and mediocrity.

That would be me. Japanese horror (and overall Japanese storytelling) can be extremely unsubtle and hamfisted when it wants to get a point across (see: Hideo Kojima and his verbose elocutions on why nuclear weapons are baaaaaaaaaaaaaad and other matters of war, or almost every manga/anime/videogame ever). Giving props to the Japanese for something that they only sometimes get right strikes me as highly disingenuous, especially when the West has been getting it right just as often.

Casual Shinji:
I don't know, Silent Hill's atmosphere was influenced very heavily by an American movie called Jacob's Ladder, as well as a tiny bit by Twin Peaks. Silent Hill 2 even had a bit of Lost Highway (another David Lynch creation) in it in the form of the videotape.

Thank you.

FizzyIzze:
You're right. The one thing that creeps me out about certain 70's horror movies is how they really took their time in telling a story. There weren't too many rapid cuts in editing. Some movies (Sybil) had really slow panning camera shots--slow enough to make the viewer uncomfortable. And instead of a real soundtrack you might have a single, screeching violin note playing in the background. Directors weren't afraid to just leave the camera sitting there. I think the best, most recent example would be John Carpenter's The Thing versus the prequel/remake.

Even older, "regular" movies from back then leave me with an uneasy feeling because of the aging film stock they used, mixed in with the oppressive California daylight (where most films were/are made) which gave movies an overexposed look. I can't blame anyone for not knowing their older movies though, because you have to go out of your way to find them.

Pretty much, yeah. John Carpenter's Halloween, for example, was a supremely decent and acceptable take on psychological horror, particularly by way of Psycho. Having a clearly unstable character stalking the protagonist, with pretty much no gore, a low body count, and large amounts of time where nothing exciting happens (to build tension) were what made it a solid entry into the psychological horror category. That the ending implies (again: subtlety!) that the demented stalker has become an actual supernatural force veers firmly into Magical Realism, a genre where subtlety is key and which Latin America has been exporting non-stop (though, admittedly, not in the horror variety) since Jorge Luis Borges, Ernesto Sabato and Gabriel Garcia Marquez started writing about seemingly normal locales with subtle supernatural elements. The very concept of Silent Hill, a town that is almost perfectly normal, quiet and boring, but where something has clearly gone supernaturally wrong, is so Magical Realism it physically hurts.

You can find examples of psychological horror all over Western media, but it most often crops up in literature, since books cannot, by their very nature, rely on jump scares or visceral gore. Literature has to be psychological, or else it fails, since it has no other way of grabbing the reader and making them feel emotions.

daveman247:

ToastiestZombie:
snip

Hm, they had afew good points (such as the fresh paved roads - which i DID notice. As well as a few censored scenes). The rest of it, (particulary part 2) just came off as whiny bitching of the hardcore fans :/ Especially when they got to the audio changes. Which is just personal taste IMO.

Im convinced that the technical issues only existed in the ps3 version. Every problem i have seen has been in the ps3 version. I played it on 360, and there was definitley no slow-mo parts for example.

The changed voices are quite clearly explained in the video. To me they changed them to be more dramatic and gamey, when Silent Hill 2 and 3's voice acting was great for the game it was in. A clear example is Douglas Cartland, he actually sounds 50 years old in the original SH3, but in the HD version he sounds like a 20 year old trying to sound 50. If they really cared about the original games and liked them, the team would have simply done what other companies have doing for every other damn HD collection. Which is keep the entire experience intact, but put better framerates and make it 720p. The original games were fine, they didn't need any changes for the modern day.

The MGS HD collection was amazing, since it kept the original games exactly how they were but made the framerate much better and the graphics really nice. The Silent Hill HD collection is like the Star Wars special editions, unneccesary changes to an otherwise perfect game/movie. I would say they're even worse, since it wasn't the original creator who did it but a guy who didn't really like the original games.

And why the hell didn't they add in SH4? It just screams of laziness and no actual love for the series.

ToastiestZombie:

Watch this review if you want a really, REALLY long explanation as to why the HD collection is much worse than the normal versions.

All those things may seem like little gripes to you, but they're really not when you add them all up.

Wow, I just watched those two videos (no really) and I'm glad I didn't purchase the HD collection. I had only read that they were bad ports; seeing the disdain the new team has for the original SH games means I will be actively seeking out games they're involved with and NOT buying them. I can't imagine being in the position of working on a remake while actively mocking the original source material.

ToastiestZombie:
The changed voices are quite clearly explained in the video. To me they changed them to be more dramatic and gamey, when Silent Hill 2 and 3's voice acting was great for the game it was in. A clear example is Douglas Cartland, he actually sounds 50 years old in the original SH3, but in the HD version he sounds like a 20 year old trying to sound 50. If they really cared about the original games and liked them, the team would have simply done what other companies have doing for every other damn HD collection. Which is keep the entire experience intact, but put better framerates and make it 720p. The original games were fine, they didn't need any changes for the modern day.

The MGS HD collection was amazing, since it kept the original games exactly how they were but made the framerate much better and the graphics really nice. The Silent Hill HD collection is like the Star Wars special editions, unneccesary changes to an otherwise perfect game/movie. I would say they're even worse, since it wasn't the original creator who did it but a guy who didn't really like the original games.

And why the hell didn't they add in SH4? It just screams of laziness and no actual love for the series.

When you realize how Bluepoint did the God of War, Ico/Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear Solid collections by comparison, the bumbling that occured with the Silent Hill collection becomes even more mind boggling.

My only guess to why Konami didn't hand Silent Hill over to Bluepoint was because they were already working on Metal Gear Solid, and Konami wanted both collections out at about the same time.

ToastiestZombie:
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Thats cool. But like i said, personal preferance. I liked the acting much more with the re-done voices. I just felt they had stronger voices :) I will admit its not the best collection it could have been, and the mgs collection is still the best out of all the others. But i still really liked this one!

I was disappointed with the lack of 4 as well, because i really liked it too. Im thinking they left it out not because of laziness, but because they "thought" the fans didnt care enough. And i will admit, whenever i mentioned SH4 anywhere its met with "meh's" or "it was crap".

I think its a catch-twenty two with these collections. If you leave it as it is, and just up the graphics. People moan that "theres no point" because its essentially the same game. But when they change stuff around people complain its changed too far, and is not as good as it once was.

TLDR: People... :/

Casual Shinji:

ToastiestZombie:
The changed voices are quite clearly explained in the video. To me they changed them to be more dramatic and gamey, when Silent Hill 2 and 3's voice acting was great for the game it was in. A clear example is Douglas Cartland, he actually sounds 50 years old in the original SH3, but in the HD version he sounds like a 20 year old trying to sound 50. If they really cared about the original games and liked them, the team would have simply done what other companies have doing for every other damn HD collection. Which is keep the entire experience intact, but put better framerates and make it 720p. The original games were fine, they didn't need any changes for the modern day.

The MGS HD collection was amazing, since it kept the original games exactly how they were but made the framerate much better and the graphics really nice. The Silent Hill HD collection is like the Star Wars special editions, unneccesary changes to an otherwise perfect game/movie. I would say they're even worse, since it wasn't the original creator who did it but a guy who didn't really like the original games.

And why the hell didn't they add in SH4? It just screams of laziness and no actual love for the series.

When you realize how Bluepoint did the God of War, Ico/Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear Solid collections by comparison, the bumbling that occured with the Silent Hill collection becomes even more mind boggling.

My only guess to why Konami didn't hand Silent Hill over to Bluepoint was because they were already working on Metal Gear Solid, and Konami wanted both collections out at about the same time.

That's the only thing I can think of too. It doesn't help that the team was only given only partial code to work with and that was with bugs and all. How that managed to happen is beyond me.

I do think Tom Hulett was a bad choice since apparently he's the biggest Silent HIll fan and no one comes as close to him. No hyperbole since he's said that. Also, I guess he wanted to do a complete re-write of Silent Hill 2, and I'm not sure about SH3, but Konami said no thankfully. That collection should've gone to someone else since the more I hear about what the team decided to do the more I think Konami should've stepped in and canned the project.

daveman247:

ToastiestZombie:
snip

Thats cool. But like i said, personal preferance. I liked the acting much more with the re-done voices. I just felt they had stronger voices :) I will admit its not the best collection it could have been, and the mgs collection is still the best out of all the others. But i still really liked this one!

I was disappointed with the lack of 4 as well, because i really liked it too. Im thinking they left it out not because of laziness, but because they "thought" the fans didnt care enough. And i will admit, whenever i mentioned SH4 anywhere its met with "meh's" or "it was crap".

I think its a catch-twenty two with these collections. If you leave it as it is, and just up the graphics. People moan that "theres no point" because its essentially the same game. But when they change stuff around people complain its changed too far, and is not as good as it once was.

TLDR: People... :/

I guess the new voices are personal-preference, like voice work normally is. But you can't really say that shit like wood sounds playing whilst walking on metal is personal-preference. They should have let you choose between the original and new voices for SH3, which for some reason they didn't. So you get stuck with Christopher Nolan's Batman and 20 Year old woman trying to act like a teen as main characters.

I think the whole point of these HD collections is to let a whole new wave of people play games from the past. Silent Hill really needed one in my opinion because the originals are really hard to buy now, and many people hadn't played them when they first came out. The better frame-rates, resolution and loading times are the benefits for people who want to replay the games. Making so many changes to an otherwise fine game shouldn't be done, because people playing it new won't get the experience the original creator intented, and any problem that arised with the HD collection would be seen as being in the original games.

They should have put SH4 in. They put MGS2 into the MGS collection even though that's seen as the black sheep of the franchise, so why not put SH4 into the Silent Hill collection? I guess we'll never really know

I think it's part of a larger problem that horror isn't marketable (or at least, so the AAA developers seem to think). To be fair, at least the new Silent Hill games TRY to be horror; it's just that they fail miserably.

What it comes down to, in my opinion, is that the series is in the hands of people who don't understand not only the series canon, but also how to craft a horror experience.

The fact that the HD collection and Downpour were buggy messes doesn't help much either. Unless someone capable (read: Hideo Kojima) steps up to direct the project, I would very much like to see the series end.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

Casual Shinji:
When you realize how Bluepoint did the God of War, Ico/Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear Solid collections by comparison, the bumbling that occured with the Silent Hill collection becomes even more mind boggling.

My only guess to why Konami didn't hand Silent Hill over to Bluepoint was because they were already working on Metal Gear Solid, and Konami wanted both collections out at about the same time.

That's the only thing I can think of too. It doesn't help that the team was only given only partial code to work with and that was with bugs and all. How that managed to happen is beyond me.

I do think Tom Hulett was a bad choice since apparently he's the biggest Silent HIll fan and no one comes as close to him. No hyperbole since he's said that. Also, I guess he wanted to do a complete re-write of Silent Hill 2, and I'm not sure about SH3, but Konami said no thankfully. That collection should've gone to someone else since the more I hear about what the team decided to do the more I think Konami should've stepped in and canned the project.

Well, apparently that code issue should never have been... an issue. Bluepoint apparently worked with just the retail versions of GoW, Ico/SotC and MGS, made them playable on PC, and then upscaled them like that.

Anyway, I'm just glad I still have my original copies of SH2 and 3.

Casual Shinji:

Fiz_The_Toaster:

Casual Shinji:
When you realize how Bluepoint did the God of War, Ico/Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear Solid collections by comparison, the bumbling that occured with the Silent Hill collection becomes even more mind boggling.

My only guess to why Konami didn't hand Silent Hill over to Bluepoint was because they were already working on Metal Gear Solid, and Konami wanted both collections out at about the same time.

That's the only thing I can think of too. It doesn't help that the team was only given only partial code to work with and that was with bugs and all. How that managed to happen is beyond me.

I do think Tom Hulett was a bad choice since apparently he's the biggest Silent HIll fan and no one comes as close to him. No hyperbole since he's said that. Also, I guess he wanted to do a complete re-write of Silent Hill 2, and I'm not sure about SH3, but Konami said no thankfully. That collection should've gone to someone else since the more I hear about what the team decided to do the more I think Konami should've stepped in and canned the project.

Well, apparently that code issue should never have been... an issue. Bluepoint apparently worked with just the retail versions of GoW, Ico/SotC and MGS, made them playable on PC, and then upscaled them like that.

Anyway, I'm just glad I still have my original copies of SH2 and 3.

Yeah, I heard what Bluepoint did with doing their previous collections and that makes the most sense since at that point you're dealing with finished code. It's only then you make the game "HD" and make it workable on a console. Why that didn't happen with the Silent Hill Collection is beyond me, and the only thing I can think of is money and that they wanted it to be done as cheaply as possible. If that's the case, then how come Bluepoint can do it with the Metal Gear Collection, but not Hijinx?

I still have my copies. I had to hold them and tell them I would never replace them, and that I will make sure the bad men will never get near them.

Darks63:
The main reason is after part 4 the original team which made the games Team Silent disbanded and development shifted from Japan to the US which have a different style of horror.

They aren't with the US anymore dude. VATRA, who made downpour, was Czech

Mr. Eff:
I think it's part of a larger problem that horror isn't marketable (or at least, so the AAA developers seem to think). To be fair, at least the new Silent Hill games TRY to be horror; it's just that they fail miserably.

What it comes down to, in my opinion, is that the series is in the hands of people who don't understand not only the series canon, but also how to craft a horror experience.

The fact that the HD collection and Downpour were buggy messes doesn't help much either. Unless someone capable (read: Hideo Kojima) steps up to direct the project, I would very much like to see the series end.

How was Downpour buggy? I had zero problems the whole way through.

Darks63:
The main reason is after part 4 the original team which made the games Team Silent disbanded and development shifted from Japan to the US which have a different style of horror.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the key members of Team Silent had left even before 4. I think Yamaoka basically was Team Silent by that point.

BleedingPride:
How was Downpour buggy? I had zero problems the whole way through.

It lagged for me. A lot. In addition, textures would appear/disappear at will (boards covering doors would re-appear, switches would be invisible, etc.)

The one that sticks out most, however, was in the orphanage. There's a bit where the player enters a room and the door locks behind them, and they have to use an axe to destroy some boards covering a door. I destroyed them, and the door stayed locked. Thinking I made a mistake, I reloaded and tried again. This time, it opened.

I never encountered a glitch in the console releases of 1-4, and starting with Origins it went downhill pretty fast.

Vivi22:
If I'm not mistaken, most of the key members of Team Silent had left even before 4. I think Yamaoka basically was Team Silent by that point.

Lots of them had left, but a few key members remained to create 4. It was after 4 that the team was officially disbanded.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

Why that didn't happen with the Silent Hill Collection is beyond me, and the only thing I can think of is money and that they wanted it to be done as cheaply as possible. If that's the case, then how come Bluepoint can do it with the Metal Gear Collection, but not Hijinx?

I think its the simple fact that horror doesnt really sell anymore. At least in the numbers companies are wanting these days. And the silent hill games have been ailing for a while. Metal gear solid is still regarded by most as a great franchise. Most of the games have been consistantly good. The same can't be said for silent hill :/

You can't really blame them for being choosy which to throw money at.

daveman247:

I think its the simple fact that horror doesnt really sell anymore. At least in the numbers companies are wanting these days. And the silent hill games have been ailing for a while. Metal gear solid is still regarded by most as a great franchise. Most of the games have been consistantly good. The same can't be said for silent hill :/

You can't really blame them for being choosy which to throw money at.

Horror not selling doesn't explain the mess that was the Silent Hill HD Collection. And the interesting thing here is that we can pretty much pinpoint when the series went downhill...

Mr. Eff:

Horror not selling doesn't explain the mess that was the Silent Hill HD Collection. And the interesting thing here is that we can pretty much pinpoint when the series went downhill...

Sure it does. Less money and effort was put into it. If konami wanted a good collection, they would have at least have given them the full game to work with :P

And aye, once the americas got hold of it.

I enjoyed earlier games, but I respect some of the newer attempts. Part of it is because of potential for new ideas, even if they don't always work, the other part is that it seems to be one of the only horror IPs left that at least tries to prioritize atmosphere over gore. Honestly, Shattered Memories is probably my second favorite of the series.

Ideally there would be new atmospheric horror series that could try new things without being constantly held to the original games' standards and set of rules, but they're few and far between. So for now, I still follow news of the series, not hoping to recapture the glory of the older titles so much as hoping to see something interesting done with a dark psychological theme.

daveman247:

Sure it does. Less money and effort was put into it. If konami wanted a good collection, they would have at least have given them the full game to work with :P

And aye, once the americas got hold of it.

Ah, I suppose that makes sense. I suppose it's a slightly better explanation than "laziness" but it irks me just the same.

And you and I would agree on that second point. Lots of people hate The Room, but I thought it was a solid game flaws and all. Origins at the very latest I think they should have called it quits.

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