Baldur's Gate: tried to catch up on this classic, didn't age too well :(

With the recent release of Baldur's Gate: EE, I thought it's time pay an old debt to one of the best crpgs out there. Gotta personally see Minsc and Boo in action. When the original games appeared my rpg fix came from Fallout 1-2, Gothic, Deus Ex, Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption and Diablo 2 so I managed to miss them. I got the EE and went to town. Problem is, age really shows and for me it destroys the whole experience.

The good:

- The environment is done with an ageless design. I like these kind of hand drawn isometric worlds, Baldur's Gate is right up there with Commandos in style. The generic forests get a little repetitive though.
- Some battles need a bit of planning. Still not among the greats for me, I play the dedicated tactical games like Silent Storm, Fallout Tactics, Jagged Alliance, Icewind Dale 2 or X-Com for those kinds of challenges.
- Minsc and Boo :)

The bad:

- 2nd edition rules:
Imho simplistic and a bit silly at places(the thac0 system comes to mind :)). The first D&D rpg I played was Neverwinter Nights, so
3rd edition spoiled me with the ability bonuses, feats, prestige classes, actual skills/proficiencies, better saving throws and the like.
After that going back to 2nd felt pretty bad.

- Clunky interface:
After arriving at the friendly arm a mage attacks my party of 4. The next minute was spent trying to get at least 2 of them actually attack him while he murders absolutely everyone.

Very slow movement: frustration got to a point where I just teleported my party around in explored terrain, otherwise let Minsc scout in haste boots and port everyone to points of interest.

The spell glyphs are ugly and barely readable. Of course this comes with the age, but NWN 1-2 did such a great job with the spellbook/spell effects it sticked out like a sore thumb.

It's overall very hard to manage battles. I play these kinds of games with more pausing than actual action, but still occasionally lost track of what's happening.

- Storytelling/npc interaction isn't as immersive as others led me to believe:
The story is fine, but didn't really grab me like Deus Ex/Fallout 2 in their time. Of course the tools for telling it are pretty limited, that may be one of the causes. NPC chatter is basically nonexistent, Dragon Age did set the bar high in that area.

- Difficulty isn't that high:
I've read up on 2nd edition rules + picked out the npcs I found entertaining from a list, that was the extent of my preparation.
I originally planned to roll a jolly neutral cleric/fighter dwarf. After noticing that Yeslick will be exactly that,
I went with the only rpg trope missing: the friggin girly elven ranger/archer with longbows(yes, I know I'm a terrible person).
I consciously avoided mages/codzilla setups since they tend to make everything too easy in D&D games I know of.

Attributes weren't rolled, just 90 points distributed. I hate the hit die randomness so just switched to easy on levelups and played on
insane to compensate for the extra hp. After the friendly arm melee incident I've just given everyone but Yeslick bows/slings, when I found the turboboots and freedom of movement greatsword Minsc got those to add some extra punch against tough guys.

The result:
Tough enemies get 1-2 actions off. That either kills someone outright(reload time, save scumming filth :)) or my main archer absolutely murderkilldeathstomps them by himself in 2 turns. If the others somehow manage to hit or the party uses some offensive spells it's even uglier. Summed up it's a steamroll with some exceptionally tough enemies having binary win/lose moves.
Later I did find out that mass ranged weapons are very strong in BG1, but the main char felt like Rambo just by himself.

I hoped once I'm a bit deeper the game gets better, but in the end this felt more like a chore. I gave up after getting to Baldur's Gate.
Just had to vent a bit, had so high expectations. If I played it when it came out I'd probably think of BG like the first 2 Fallouts, this way it was another bad game.

Draba:
- 2nd edition rules: Imho simplistic and a bit silly at places(the thac0 system comes to mind :)). The first D&D rpg I played was Neverwinter Nights, so 3rd edition spoiled me with the ability bonuses, feats, prestige classes, actual skills/proficiencies, better saving throws and the like. After that going back to 2nd felt pretty bad.

Bleargh. I loved 2nd edition. 3rd edition was like a tumor on a leper's ass in comparison.

Really though, BG1 was never the most amazing RPG. It's mostly notable as being the progenitor for BG2, which was superior in almost every respect. And the infinity engine, alas, was clunky even when the games were new.

I remember the then renowned RPG critic Scorpia slammed Baldur's Gate when it was released, implying it "wasn't a real RPG", and contrasting it negatively against enshrined classics like Ultima IV. It's part of why I find it tremendously funny that, over a decade later, we have people slamming modern RPGs and holding them up against enshrined classics like Baldur's Gate. There's always someone with their panties in a knot to tell you what a "real RPG" is and why the game you're enjoying sucks.

But I digress.

Sorry to hear it isn't floating your boat; glad to hear you're a fan of IWD2 though. Each of the infinity engine games had their strengths and weaknesses, and BG was the first, so some clunkiness is to be expected. It took me several attempts before I could bring myself to play it all the way through.
Most of your problems with it were improved in the sequel, so you could always stick with BG2: all of the Minsc, and less of the clunk. Or just go back to Kuldahar ;)

Waaaaaaaaay more depth in 3rd edition tbh xD

I never did get through Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately that was back in the days of Windows 98 and with a subpar rig. Even stable games had frequent crashes. With BG I might get 5-10 minutes of play at a time before a BSOD or hard reset. The most I remember is stealing a shit-ton of these magic shields from this one vendor, then getting annoyed I couldn't sell them back to him again. I think I went up north to the capital city trying to find a fence and that's about as far as I got.

I don't particularly like pauseable realtime when you're controlling a group though. I liked NWN where you just had the one hero, but not so much NWN2.

As it is it didn't age well. That's why I like modding it to death. I've not tried the EE as I don't feel like shelling out for it given that I've seen it said many times that just modding the originals properly gives a comparatively equal experience give or take a few refinements.

However I do like 2nd edition as I feel that the only game that has done the later editions justice has been Temple Of Elemental Evil which had an amazing combat system but was lacking in a few places (which modders smoothed out again)

BeeGeenie:
Most of your problems with it were improved in the sequel, so you could always stick with BG2: all of the Minsc, and less of the clunk. Or just go back to Kuldahar ;)

Will probably check out BG2 when the EE is done. Right now I've got my sights on Temple of Elemental Evil, looks like just what I expected BG to be(and made by Troika, to boot).

WoW Killer:
I don't particularly like pauseable realtime when you're controlling a group though. I liked NWN where you just had the one hero, but not so much NWN2.

I've felt the same way, the only squad based games I loved were Commandos and Jagged Alliance.
Recently played some Silent Storm and Fallout Tactics(heard so many bad things about this one and it's great), got to a point where I enjoy the party/squad based games more. Only catch is I usually muck around until I manage to create my own custom party, hate playing with gimped premade characters if they are not done like in Dragon Age Origins(Sten dialogue rocked).

Tallim:
However I do like 2nd edition as I feel that the only game that has done the later editions justice has been Temple Of Elemental Evil which had an amazing combat system but was lacking in a few places (which modders smoothed out again)

Looks great and I already liked the 3+ edition Icewind Dale 2 and NWNs, if the combat is better than those my sunday is probably gone :)

Draba:

BeeGeenie:
Most of your problems with it were improved in the sequel, so you could always stick with BG2: all of the Minsc, and less of the clunk. Or just go back to Kuldahar ;)

Will probably check out BG2 when the EE is done. Right now I've got my sights on Temple of Elemental Evil, looks like just what I expected BG to be(and made by Troika, to boot).

True, TOEE is also pretty good. Sounds like what you're looking for. Just remember to get it patched, and make plenty of saves, 'cause it's notoriously buggy. I've had many a corrupted save file :'(

BeeGeenie:
True, TOEE is also pretty good. Sounds like what you're looking for. Just remember to get it patched, and make plenty of saves, 'cause it's notoriously buggy. I've had many a corrupted save file :'(

I just replayed TOEE recently, as it happens. It still plays pretty good, although it bears a lot more resemblance to turn based tactical games like JA than an RPG proper. I had fun with it.

Oh right...and I'm quoting you because it's still buggy as fuck. OP should absolutely save like a champion.

BloatedGuppy:

BeeGeenie:
True, TOEE is also pretty good. Sounds like what you're looking for. Just remember to get it patched, and make plenty of saves, 'cause it's notoriously buggy. I've had many a corrupted save file :'(

I just replayed TOEE recently, as it happens. It still plays pretty good, although it bears a lot more resemblance to turn based tactical games like JA than an RPG proper. I had fun with it.

Oh right...and I'm quoting you because it's still buggy as fuck. OP should absolutely save like a champion.

Did you play it with the Circle Of Eight mod installed? Pretty much the only way to play it IMO. Fixes a ton of stuff, makes other parts more intuitive and adds back in a lot of content that got shelved.

The main problem with TOEE is it is based on the module of the same name which is little more than a large dungeon crawl. However because the combat is extremely good it makes it easier to overlook the lack of roleplaying that goes into it. Still a quality game if somewhat marred by some problems.

Tallim:
Did you play it with the Circle Of Eight mod installed? Pretty much the only way to play it IMO. Fixes a ton of stuff, makes other parts more intuitive and adds back in a lot of content that got shelved.

The main problem with TOEE is it is based on the module of the same name which is little more than a large dungeon crawl. However because the combat is extremely good it makes it easier to overlook the lack of roleplaying that goes into it. Still a quality game if somewhat marred by some problems.

Sure did! Still buggy. It did add some stuff though. And in fairness, it wasn't anywhere near as buggy as it was on release. I bought and played it at release as well, and it's got to be top 5 of the buggiest games of all time, behind Battlecruiser 3000 AD and Ultima IX.

I could dig more games in the same vein. I love tactical combat. And TOEE was actually pretty decent for it.

BloatedGuppy:

Tallim:
Did you play it with the Circle Of Eight mod installed? Pretty much the only way to play it IMO. Fixes a ton of stuff, makes other parts more intuitive and adds back in a lot of content that got shelved.

The main problem with TOEE is it is based on the module of the same name which is little more than a large dungeon crawl. However because the combat is extremely good it makes it easier to overlook the lack of roleplaying that goes into it. Still a quality game if somewhat marred by some problems.

Sure did! Still buggy. It did add some stuff though. And in fairness, it wasn't anywhere near as buggy as it was on release. I bought and played it at release as well, and it's got to be top 5 of the buggiest games of all time, behind Battlecruiser 3000 AD and Ultima IX.

I could dig more games in the same vein. I love tactical combat. And TOEE was actually pretty decent for it.

Yeah I got it release day and it was a pain to play. So many issues that cropped up all over the place without warning. Still I muddled through it and I still love it, even more so with Circle Of Eight.

It's ok, I'll love it enough for the both of us and possibly a few other people.

I might disagree on nearly every point, but ultimately if it's not your thing it's just not your thing.

I don't know how the EE compares to the modded base edition, but it doesn't seem to be that favourable. Spell effects are improved in the sequel, there's a ton of much improved content. If you set the fps to 45 or 60 it helps the pacing a lot. 2nd edition D&D is pretty bad, but the difference between it and 3rd edition compared to the difference between 3rd edition and an actually good roleplaying system such as Five Rings is absolutely negligible. As a result there's no way I could possibly considered myself "spoiled" by any roleplaying system in any CRPG, they are all similarly god-awful.

So yeah, I can see where you're coming from, but once you get past all this there's a great game to play.

Sorry to hear you don't care for it. I actually just picked up BG:EE and have been having an utter blast with it. Yes, THAC0 came from a dark place and some design decisions displease me (bards get armor and spellcasting, but can't cast in the vast majority of armor they have proficiency in, but still can't wear robes) but otherwise it has been a very solid rpg so far.

Keep in mind, I played NWN2 far more than is probably healthy, and have gone through NWN1 once (got it a lot later). So yes, I do prefer 3.5e, (since a heavily homeruled version is what I use in the game I'm running), but I find there is a certain charm to it.

And seriously, bards getting a non restricted (expect max spell level) spell list? Hello blaster bard wielding a longbow.

I wish the interface wasn't as clunky. For an enhanced edition, they sure left a lot of the obtuse design choices in.

Draba:

- Storytelling/npc interaction isn't as immersive as others led me to believe:
The story is fine, but didn't really grab me like Deus Ex/Fallout 2 in their time. Of course the tools for telling it are pretty limited, that may be one of the causes. NPC chatter is basically nonexistent, Dragon Age did set the bar high in that area.

You are absolutely correct in this regard. One of the things that separates the original Baldur's Gate from its sequel Baldur's Gate 2 is the quality of interaction with your companions. It's with Baldur's Gate 2 that you'll see the characters and story suddenly flourish, by default however with the original title the cast is in general quite silent. Almost depressingly so. To its credit Baldur's Gate did set the groundwork for what was to come, but standing on its own it can be hard to appreciate when we're so used to its predecessors.

It's why I can't replay the original without also installing the BG1 NPC Project which brings the quality and volume of banter up to a level more comparable to BG2. Unfortunately that mod is also not compatible with the 'Enhanced Edition' yet, a compatible version is apparently in the works but that could take a long time before it happens due to the complexity of the mod and the changes that would need to be made for the Enhanced Edition. When it is eventually made compatible I would extremely highly suggest checking it out!

Anyway if you're at least intrigued by Baldur's Gate I would recommend finishing it and moving on to BG2 which is an improvement in very nearly every way possible. No need to wait for an enhanced edition, BG2 still looks and plays fantastic today. 2nd edition DnD becomes considerably more interesting at higher levels, the artwork is leagues better than the rough backgrounds used for BG1, the story is more compelling with one of the most memorable villains in gaming, and as mentioned the characters are more interactive. Behaving more like, well, characters instead of just walking class sets with a few lines of dialogue.

The Madman:

Draba:

- Storytelling/npc interaction isn't as immersive as others led me to believe:
The story is fine, but didn't really grab me like Deus Ex/Fallout 2 in their time. Of course the tools for telling it are pretty limited, that may be one of the causes. NPC chatter is basically nonexistent, Dragon Age did set the bar high in that area.

You are absolutely correct in this regard. One of the things that separates the original Baldur's Gate from its sequel Baldur's Gate 2 is the quality of interaction with your companions. It's with Baldur's Gate 2 that you'll see the characters and story suddenly flourish, by default however with the original title the cast is in general quite silent. Almost depressingly so. To its credit Baldur's Gate did set the groundwork for what was to come, but standing on its own it can be hard to appreciate when we're so used to its predecessors.

It's why I can't replay the original without also installing the BG1 NPC Project which brings the quality and volume of banter up to a level more comparable to BG2. Unfortunately that mod is also not compatible with the 'Enhanced Edition' yet, a compatible version is apparently in the works but that could take a long time before it happens due to the complexity of the mod and the changes that would need to be made for the Enhanced Edition. When it is eventually made compatible I would extremely highly suggest checking it out!

Anyway if you're at least intrigued by Baldur's Gate I would recommend finishing it and moving on to BG2 which is an improvement in very nearly every way possible. No need to wait for an enhanced edition, BG2 still looks and plays fantastic today. 2nd edition DnD becomes considerably more interesting at higher levels, the artwork is leagues better than the rough backgrounds used for BG1, the story is more compelling with one of the most memorable villains in gaming, and as mentioned the characters are more interactive. Behaving more like, well, characters instead of just walking class sets with a few lines of dialogue.

I agree with everything the Madman says above.

I prefer 3.5ed for the ability to create almost any character concept coneivable. My first NWN character at the time was a dual-blade wielding wizard (possible inspired by Darth Maul). Since I've had shapeshifting rogues, dual wielding warlocks and....well I stopped at the warlock but I've made my point :-)

BG is tougher to play than its successor, agreed, but once one gets into it, I think it's easy to lose oneself in the world, the story and forget the graphics and system. I've always rolled pure wizard in BG and BG2. For one thing, there's not enough real magic otherwise and for another I enjoy the flexibility and variety. It's also not really a fantasy RPG/D&D game without magic to be honest.

My favourite party of all time (with a mod that prevents people leaving) was Minsc, Jaheira, Korgan, Viconia and Imoen/Yoshimo/Nalia/Jan. I've dabbled with Aeria and Keldorn and cool though they are, the former five are my favourites. I've taken to "cheating" somewhat however...if I want a different companion, because they don't get XP when not in the party, I use an editor to give them the same XP as the next lowest in my party.

It's incredible just how much game there is to be had with BG thru ToB. And the writing is spectacular, as is the cast. The bit with the silver pantaloons, with the adventurers in the beholder's cavern is such a perfect mix of tongue in cheek humour and homage to the genre. I miss when developers just made great games, rich and complex, instead of "mass-market entertainment products" with as much content removed (to be sold back later of course) as can be, not to mention honest to God expansion packs with tens of hours of gameplay.

BeeGeenie:
True, TOEE is also pretty good. Sounds like what you're looking for. Just remember to get it patched, and make plenty of saves, 'cause it's notoriously buggy. I've had many a corrupted save file :'(

The Troika logo says it all :)

BloatedGuppy:
I just replayed TOEE recently, as it happens. It still plays pretty good, although it bears a lot more resemblance to turn based tactical games like JA than an RPG proper. I had fun with it.

Tallim:
The main problem with TOEE is it is based on the module of the same name which is little more than a large dungeon crawl. However because the combat is extremely good it makes it easier to overlook the lack of roleplaying that goes into it. Still a quality game if somewhat marred by some problems.

I'll admit I mainly play RPGs for the combat, closer to the turn based tactical game means less idle talk :)
The story and world has to be pretty damn great to get me interested in the dialogue. The game I liked most for those parts is the first Gothic. Simple combat, open world similar to the elder scrolls, but even the fluffy little rainbow ponies will murder you if you take a step in the wrong direction and don't start runnning the moment you see them. I will remember old camp/new camp/the swamp/running from a shadowbeast 15 minutes in for a long time :)

Rack:
I don't know how the EE compares to the modded base edition, but it doesn't seem to be that favourable. Spell effects are improved in the sequel, there's a ton of much improved content. If you set the fps to 45 or 60 it helps the pacing a lot. 2nd edition D&D is pretty bad, but the difference between it and 3rd edition compared to the difference between 3rd edition and an actually good roleplaying system such as Five Rings is absolutely negligible. As a result there's no way I could possibly considered myself "spoiled" by any roleplaying system in any CRPG, they are all similarly god-awful.

So yeah, I can see where you're coming from, but once you get past all this there's a great game to play.

The Madman:
Anyway if you're at least intrigued by Baldur's Gate I would recommend finishing it and moving on to BG2 which is an improvement in very nearly every way possible. No need to wait for an enhanced edition, BG2 still looks and plays fantastic today. 2nd edition DnD becomes considerably more interesting at higher levels, the artwork is leagues better than the rough backgrounds used for BG1, the story is more compelling with one of the most memorable villains in gaming, and as mentioned the characters are more interactive. Behaving more like, well, characters instead of just walking class sets with a few lines of dialogue.

Tried getting past all the little annoyances, but they add up fast so I've just read the rest of the story. When I went in I actually expected the "bad" mechanics, but I thought the companions carry the game themselves even if it turns out to be a stinker. Compare that with almost complete silence(except the occasional "There is strength in numbers ..." :)). I don't see myself playing BG again. On the other hand, I already knew BG2 is considered better and gets much praise here, too, there is no missing that one.

On other rpg systems: I'm pretty noob when it comes to pen & paper. My only experience comes from some 15+ years ago, played a bit of Shadowrun and a hungarian rpg called M.A.G.U.S. with some mates. Usually got stupidly drunk 2-3 hours in so counts even less :)

Quote instead of edit.

Draba:

Tried getting past all the little annoyances, but they add up fast so I've just read the rest of the story. When I went in I actually expected the "bad" mechanics, but I thought the companions carry the game themselves even if it turns out to be a stinker. Compare that with almost complete silence(except the occasional "There is strength in numbers ..." :)). I don't see myself playing BG again. On the other hand, I already knew BG2 is considered better and gets much praise here, too, there is no missing that one.

On other rpg systems: I'm pretty noob when it comes to pen & paper. My only experience comes from some 15+ years ago, played a bit of Shadowrun and a hungarian rpg called M.A.G.U.S. with some mates. Usually got stupidly drunk 2-3 hours in so counts even less :)

Baldur's Gate uses the old 2nd edition DnD ruleset which by and large only gets particularly interesting at higher levels. It does however pick up and can be pretty satisfying once you've hit your stride, especially since Baldur's Gate 2 really just throws the entire DnD Bestiary at you. Dragons and Beholders and Mindflayers, oh my! Of course Vampires are probably the ones that annoy me the most; word of warning for you, being level drained is a bitch. Keep your clerics out of range of vampires and be sure they've got restoration spells memorized any time you even think you *might* encounter a vampire. Nasty things!

And again you're right about the companions not having much to say in the original game. Keep in mind that BG was literally the first Bioware game to ever have this feature, hell, it was their first rpg period. It's pretty rough. Whether by stroke of luck, pure skill, or the cosmic stars aligning however Baldur's Gate 2 actually strikes a brilliant balance between gameplay and story. Characters have tons of banter not just with you, but between each other as well. Relationships are formed, romances play out, rivalries created. It's a formula they've been copying with every rpg ever since.

So yeah, give BG2 a try. And if you do ever want to try the original again give that mod I link above a try, hopefully it will be out for the enhanced edition by then. It makes the original game much more entertaining by adding a ton of well written dialogue.

I think you are spot on in your post-mortem. Except I think that the dialogue in these old Black Isle games are far better than most newer games. I never really agreed with the modern BioWare style of dialogue.

Most RPG fans loved BG1 because it was such a huge step up in technology and quality from previous RPGs. It's the Half-Life effect all over again, when one game suddenly makes a 5-year step in innovation people will remember it forever. And then it will age poorly because newer generations arrive and wonder what the big deal is.

Another quality of that era of RPGs is the extreme attention to little details and the huge worlds. There are so many things to explore and so many things to miss that I always feel there is more out there. I like the world feel that the BG games provide.

BloatedGuppy:

I remember the then renowned RPG critic Scorpia slammed Baldur's Gate when it was released, implying it "wasn't a real RPG", and contrasting it negatively against enshrined classics like Ultima IV. It's part of why I find it tremendously funny that, over a decade later, we have people slamming modern RPGs and holding them up against enshrined classics like Baldur's Gate. There's always someone with their panties in a knot to tell you what a "real RPG" is and why the game you're enjoying sucks.

It's not a real RPG unless you spend 2 hours copying floppies before playing. Part of me still thinks that Wasteland was the only real RPG.

hm, i guess i cant really comment. i mean i re-played it recently and thought it was as good as ever. however, i also played it when it was still pretty new so nostalgia goggles could be getting in the way of forming an unbiased opinion

I really enjoyed the enhanced edition, I remember playing the first game when I was around 7 and my mom picked up the demo for it on accident. (Stuff like that was new to our family.) So I played it until you got to Xan but could never beat the boss in there because quite frankly this game goes over an 8 year old's head in terms of difficulty.

I would say this is one of the more difficult games out there, I mean starting out you can get killed by Kobolds, I like that when you get to about level 4 the basic monsters don't really cause you any problems which is kind of cool, I like knowing that I've risen up from being a young green adventurer who would get killed by some Gibberlings if he wasn't any good to just mowing down 30 of them because I'm a badass now.

I also like the new Characters, the Neera and the Orc guy's stories are really interesting. I lost my old copy of the game and this is the best way to try and beat a game that I was never allowed to finish. Also, the artwork is awesome. I have noticed that the difficulty of this game can scale up by ALOT sometimes if you try and overdo it with strategy.

I tried playing this game for the first time recently and so far I've run into 2 unwinnable battles. Yeah it's not really selling itself to me.

Personally I think that if they'd just changed the combat gameplay so that it was more like a turn based strategy game (You know like Dungeons and Dragons), it would be infinity better. That and pausing when you're in your inventory, those were really the only things about BG that got on my tits.

canadamus_prime:
I tried playing this game for the first time recently and so far I've run into 2 unwinnable battles. Yeah it's not really selling itself to me.

I daresay I know the Baldur's Gate games pretty damned well, what fights are those and what level is your group? I ask because perhaps I can give you a few tips, although if you're a level 2 trying to take on a Death Knight there's not much advice I can give beyond 'go somewhere else and come back when you're a higher level'. Them bastards are tough!

The Madman:

canadamus_prime:
I tried playing this game for the first time recently and so far I've run into 2 unwinnable battles. Yeah it's not really selling itself to me.

I daresay I know the Baldur's Gate games pretty damned well, what fights are those and what level is your group? I ask because perhaps I can give you a few tips, although if you're a level 2 trying to take on a Death Knight there's not much advice I can give beyond 'go somewhere else and come back when you're a higher level'. Them bastards are tough!

Well there was that one wizard that you run into when you arrive at that one Inn you're supposed to go to right at the start of the game. I had to cleverly lure him out of the entrance to the tavern so I could get in and meet up with those guys I was supposed to meet up with. It was only after having them join me and then going back outside was I able to beat that SOB. Then I tried heading directly south from that one town that's south of the inn place and ran into these big brute like things that slaughtered me. Meh.

canadamus_prime:

Well there was that one wizard that you run into when you arrive at that one Inn you're supposed to go to right at the start of the game. I had to cleverly lure him out of the entrance to the tavern so I could get in and meet up with those guys I was supposed to meet up with. It was only after having them join me and then going back outside was I able to beat that SOB. Then I tried heading directly south from that one town that's south of the inn place and ran into these big brute like things that slaughtered me. Meh.

Friendly Arm Inn Wizard Assassin Guy has three real spells as I recall; fear, mirror image, and magic missile. When he attacks you he also becomes hostile towards the Friendly Arm Inn guards. Easiest way to kill him even with a level 1 character is to split up your group, keep your most deadly to one side and have your most durable confront him when there are guards around. His first action after the whole 'bwah me kill' assassin speech will be to cast fear, which to be fair is a damned good way to open a low level fight. However if only one character is within his spell range at absolute worst only one character can be effected.

He will also try to can mirror image. If you can disrupt him here is saves a 'ton' of effort. When you start the game Imoen will have a wand of magic missiles, if your character off to the side has that and casts it at the right time you'll interrupt his spell. This guy is only a low level mage after all, sneezing at him hard enough will disrupt his spells. And from there it's just a matter of beating him into a pulp. Without his spells he's just a wimp in a dress wielding a stick, and if you've got the guards helping you he goes down within seconds. He'll try to cast magic missile once or twice, maybe melfs acid arrow as well? Can't remember. But again if you can use the wand to interrupt and he's helpless. Even if you can't time it right none of those spells do terribly much damage so you 'should' be alright as long as you're not unlucky.

If you're level 2 when you encounter him, which is pretty easy to achieve if you do all the stuff in candlekeep and explore a little in the wilds (quicksave often, there are some moderately dangerous enemies in the area south of Friendly Arm Inn though the area east of candlekeep is safe save for a few wolves and a couple bears) he's even easier. You might also have Xzar and Montaron with you as well, which makes the fight supremely easy presuming you kept three of your four group members from being potentially feared.

As for the the thing that killed you south of Beregost, that's probably an Ogrillon bandit, a half-orc mongrel. Shoot em with arrows before they can get close and if you must, let Khalid take any hits. He's a tough guy despite the stutter. They hit pretty hard for early levels but that's about it really. No fancy tricks to beating em, just kill em before they can thwack you too hard. They're thugs with big sticks!

Hope that helps.

canadamus_prime:

The Madman:

canadamus_prime:
I tried playing this game for the first time recently and so far I've run into 2 unwinnable battles. Yeah it's not really selling itself to me.

I daresay I know the Baldur's Gate games pretty damned well, what fights are those and what level is your group? I ask because perhaps I can give you a few tips, although if you're a level 2 trying to take on a Death Knight there's not much advice I can give beyond 'go somewhere else and come back when you're a higher level'. Them bastards are tough!

Well there was that one wizard that you run into when you arrive at that one Inn you're supposed to go to right at the start of the game. I had to cleverly lure him out of the entrance to the tavern so I could get in and meet up with those guys I was supposed to meet up with. It was only after having them join me and then going back outside was I able to beat that SOB. Then I tried heading directly south from that one town that's south of the inn place and ran into these big brute like things that slaughtered me. Meh.

BG can be very unforgiving at first, it took me a long time to get past the steep difficulty curve. As The Madman pointed out, missile weapons are really the key to victory before you get enough hp to survive a melee.

The Madman:

canadamus_prime:

Well there was that one wizard that you run into when you arrive at that one Inn you're supposed to go to right at the start of the game. I had to cleverly lure him out of the entrance to the tavern so I could get in and meet up with those guys I was supposed to meet up with. It was only after having them join me and then going back outside was I able to beat that SOB. Then I tried heading directly south from that one town that's south of the inn place and ran into these big brute like things that slaughtered me. Meh.

Friendly Arm Inn Wizard Assassin Guy has three real spells as I recall; fear, mirror image, and magic missile. When he attacks you he also becomes hostile towards the Friendly Arm Inn guards. Easiest way to kill him even with a level 1 character is to split up your group, keep your most deadly to one side and have your most durable confront him when there are guards around. His first action after the whole 'bwah me kill' assassin speech will be to cast fear, which to be fair is a damned good way to open a low level fight. However if only one character is within his spell range at absolute worst only one character can be effected.

He will also try to can mirror image. If you can disrupt him here is saves a 'ton' of effort. When you start the game Imoen will have a wand of magic missiles, if your character off to the side has that and casts it at the right time you'll interrupt his spell. This guy is only a low level mage after all, sneezing at him hard enough will disrupt his spells. And from there it's just a matter of beating him into a pulp. Without his spells he's just a wimp in a dress wielding a stick, and if you've got the guards helping you he goes down within seconds. He'll try to cast magic missile once or twice, maybe melfs acid arrow as well? Can't remember. But again if you can use the wand to interrupt and he's helpless. Even if you can't time it right none of those spells do terribly much damage so you 'should' be alright as long as you're not unlucky.

If you're level 2 when you encounter him, which is pretty easy to achieve if you do all the stuff in candlekeep and explore a little in the wilds (quicksave often, there are some moderately dangerous enemies in the area south of Friendly Arm Inn though the area east of candlekeep is safe save for a few wolves and a couple bears) he's even easier. You might also have Xzar and Montaron with you as well, which makes the fight supremely easy presuming you kept three of your four group members from being potentially feared.

As for the the thing that killed you south of Beregost, that's probably an Ogrillon bandit, a half-orc mongrel. Shoot em with arrows before they can get close and if you must, let Khalid take any hits. He's a tough guy despite the stutter. They hit pretty hard for early levels but that's about it really. No fancy tricks to beating em, just kill em before they can thwack you too hard. They're thugs with big sticks!

Hope that helps.

BeeGeenie:

canadamus_prime:

The Madman:

I daresay I know the Baldur's Gate games pretty damned well, what fights are those and what level is your group? I ask because perhaps I can give you a few tips, although if you're a level 2 trying to take on a Death Knight there's not much advice I can give beyond 'go somewhere else and come back when you're a higher level'. Them bastards are tough!

Well there was that one wizard that you run into when you arrive at that one Inn you're supposed to go to right at the start of the game. I had to cleverly lure him out of the entrance to the tavern so I could get in and meet up with those guys I was supposed to meet up with. It was only after having them join me and then going back outside was I able to beat that SOB. Then I tried heading directly south from that one town that's south of the inn place and ran into these big brute like things that slaughtered me. Meh.

BG can be very unforgiving at first, it took me a long time to get past the steep difficulty curve. As The Madman pointed out, missile weapons are really the key to victory before you get enough hp to survive a melee.

Noted. Thanks for the advice.

Yeah never got into Baldurs gate I have tried a few times and it just irritated the hell out of me especially the first time when I had absolutely no idea about anything and so had a wizard with atrocious stats across the board. I got further eventually but my save got wiped not far in and I never picked it back up, I havent played the enhanced edition and to be honest probably never will.

BG2 is much better imo it still didnt grab me much but it was leagues above BG 1. I think these games are either ones that resonate with you or dont most people I have spoke to either like it a lot or dislike it a lot.

Actually thats not true most people I have spoken to are unaware of its existence and will think of the hack and slash dungeon crawler game on PS2 if you say Baldurs gate thats if they think of anything at all.

 

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