Do you think that Dark Souls should be changed to offer an
No.
24.8% (115)
24.8% (115)
Hell No!
28% (130)
28% (130)
Yes!
33.6% (156)
33.6% (156)
Mebbe Bacon? Made of Spicy Pony?
12.9% (60)
12.9% (60)
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Poll: Dark Souls: Time to Put Up or Shut Up.

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So, it's that time of the month again.

People want to change Dark Souls. I say NAY! NEVER! and I don't intend to go for any elitism or any such thing. Hell, I was amongst those that never intended to get Demon's Souls (or Dark Souls) because I was - due to reporting and teh interwebz - absolutely certain that those Souls games were a bad, bad joke. Instadeath, permadeath, unfair enemies, insurmountable, giant foes, losing everything upon death, getting punished and pummelled and laughed at by demonic and undead hordes - that didn't exactly sound like a fun experience to me.

However, once I started playing and experiencing and learning, I couldn't stop. To be honest, Dark Souls is the one game I still play pretty much whenever I feel like it. I find it to be fun, zen and there's still new stuff to figure out. At the moment, I am working on perfecting my parrying skills with Queelag's Furysword in my left hand. It's just too sexy to not give it a spin... and a whirl... and a neat little shoulder with some attitude.

And yet - people think just plain enjoying the game is 'elitism'.

So, I guess, it's 'elitism' vs. 'entitlement' - entitlement to have anything changed, even before one makes the effort to figure something out. It's a shame.

So, what's your stance?

EDIT: Ah, my mistake - question should read:

Do you think that Dark Souls should be changed to offer an easy mode?

Oh dear, look what you gone and done... You poked the gelatinous mass, just when it had finally subsided into the depths.

My stance is right there by the emergency exit. Watch me go.

Personally I don't care if they do or don't.

I've already blown through Dark Souls twice and found it pretty easy (NG+, people said it was harder ... they lied)....

If they put in an easy mode the "hard" mode will still be there.

Plus, I hear companies like to make money .. I know, I know, they should do it out of love and feed their children on the praise of the players. How rude of them to want actually payment .. And if offering an easy mode makes them more money then go for it.

Rawne1980:
Personally I don't care if they do or don't.

I've already blown through Dark Souls twice and found it pretty easy (NG+, people said it was harder ... they lied)....

If they put in an easy mode the "hard" mode will still be there.

Plus, I hear companies like to make money .. I know, I know, they should do it out of love and feed their children on the praise of the players. How rude of them to want actually payment .. And if offering an easy mode makes them more money then go for it.

No no no ! If they put an easy mode , the have to put the normal (regular dark souls difficulty mode ) and an even harder hard mode . It's the only way .

OT: i choose elitism , if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen . Honestly , i want to meet the guy , that hears dark souls is hard ( because it was marketed as such ) , buys it anyways , then complains it's too hard , and punch him in the face . YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING INTO !

I want to know why the reputation these games have has been blown so far out of proportion, and it seems more frequently that the people who refuse to play it are the ones perpetuating the reputation in the first place.

Sure, compared to its contemporaries, Dark Souls is a "hard" game, but it's not really a hard game. It's not difficult in the same way that Devil May Cry 3 is with damage-sponge cannon-fodder enemies that shave off half your health with a single hit, it's just challenging because you need timing, you need awareness, and you need knowledge of your limits. Practically everything, player and monster alike, dies relatively quickly with the notable exception of certain special enemies and bosses, neither of which will respawn. Successfully navigating the terrain just comes down to knowing your environment, knowing the pull range of enemies, and being able to effectively read them. There are certain sections that are just straight difficult to overcome (looking at you, Stone Guardians in the DLC area), but nothing about it is patently unfair. Except those Silver Knight archers.

Would I mind if they implement a mode that reduces the damage enemies deal/raises the damage the player deals? As long as it had no effect on a "normal" Dark Souls mode, then no. If the entire theory behind their world design is torn asunder to make it more straight-forward and simplistic in an effort of becoming "easier", then yes, I would be disheartened.

Personally I think they should make it harder. Only 1 HP, start the game naked, and if you die the game bricks your machine.

This would appeal to a small niche audience who are tired of not being catered to. Anyone who wants an easier game can play one of the many other options out there.

#totallynotelitist

The enemies wasnt difficult to begin with.If adding an easy mode meant change on the mechanics,level design,Bosses and the learning curve then i would have to say NO.

Enjoying darksouls does not make you elitist, who even saying that? The people getting called elitist are the ones freaking out over an option.
I don't care if they add one or not but an easy mode doesn't have to change anything. If they design the game around the difficulty they want and then tweek some shit like enemy damage, how easy staggered you and they are, the amount of souls dropped on death, maybe remove an enemy or two here and there, etc to make a easy mode (and before someone say "oh but then people will still fall off shit and die", easy doesn't mean impossible to die on) it won't affect the standard. The only thing it might possibly affect is the multiplayer. If they segregate easy mode and normal mode players you might get a smaller pool to work with.

I feel I've made my position on the subject known in a number of other threads. Suffice it to say, I believe the game is not hard but rather designed to make the learning process tedious. I also tend to hold the belief that the strong argument against the inclusion of an easy mode to such a game without the loss of the difficult mode that current fans love demonstrates a fundamental desire to withhold any democratization of the title and, were I to venture a guess as to why, it is because a great number of them do, in fact, hold their play of the game as a mark of elitism.

I think it would ruin the identity of the game. You have a lot of games with "hard" modes, where you can make things hard on yourself by changing the pre-existing rules to modify difficulty. But we don't have many games that are just plain hard, and Dark Souls is one of them. It's not as big a deal to beat a game with an easy mode because, "Hey, I beat X game on hard," just sounds a little douchey to me. But if you beat a hard game, like I Wanna Be the Guy, you get respect, because those games have an identity that is focused around difficulty, whereas other games have a more, "Start where you feel comfortable and then work your way up to harder modes for extra challenge". It feels like it takes all of the focus and structure out of the identity to the detriment of the game.

Wasn't this whole easy mode thing, like, not even confirmed for DSII?

BloatedGuppy:
Personally I think they should make it harder. Only 1 HP, start the game naked, and if you die the game bricks your machine.

This would appeal to a small niche audience who are tired of not being catered to. Anyone who wants an easier game can play one of the many other options out there.

#totallynotelitist

Dosent go far enough in my opinion if you die I think someone should come around your house and kill you and everyone you ever cared about for sucking hard at a game. Its easy for people to just go and buy a new machine real gamers game with their life.

#totallymyopinion

Otherwise I dont care if they put in an easy mode as long as its implemented well, the game(s) isnt that hard really it punishes recklessness not lack of skills as its not a heavily skill based game (you just have to be aware of whats going on) but say if the easy mode was that you just get to keep all your souls on death or something like that I see no problem with it

No. I don't believe it should. The challenge is a large part of the experience and, in fact, there actually are already numerous ways in game to counter the difficulty. Just as with every other art/entertainment genre, not every piece of media needs to be enjoyed by everyone and if the developers at From decided that Demons Souls and Dark Souls were games for a niche audience then there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make it better or worse, and it doesn't make the people who enjoy it better or worse, it just means they like something different. And that's okay.

That said, it does sound like they may be going in a different direction with Souls 2 being that they basically canned the previous director. Maybe the future Souls games will be more open and inviting. Maybe they will have modal difficulty selection instead of the already existing organic difficulty selection. I can't say I'm happy with that but it's not a choice thats in my hands.

Casual Shinji:
Oh dear, look what you gone and done... You poked the gelatinous mass, just when it had finally subsided into the depths.

My stance is right there by the emergency exit. Watch me go.

My thoughts exactly.

Why is this issuing being brought up... again? The only thing I've seen come out of it is the ugly side of gamers, and the distaste they may share for each other.

=/

What's up with the 30 million difficulty threads today. Can't say I understand the fuss. All you have to do is not select easy mode. There problem solved, you can thank me now.

All these threads are pretty irrelevant as From Software has already said what they're going to do for Dark Souls 2: The beginning will be a bit easier, but by the middle of the game it will be just as difficult. This is probably the best option to satisfy everyone IMO. It will keep the artistic integrity without having such a ridiculous learning curve.

Adding an easy mode for the entire game would be a terrible idea. The difficulty is part of the themes of the game. I don't particularly like horror games, but I don't ask for horror games to have a "scare-free" mode just for me.

If you don't like FPS, you don't play FPS. If you don't like platformers, you don't play platformers. If you don't like hard games, you don't play Dark Souls. It's rather entitled to demand that the game change just for you.

Dark Souls advertised itself as a "hardcore" game. Any game with a hard mode could, but they don't because it's optional.

I've said all this exhaustively before, so I'll be brief, maybe.

There are already systems in the game to help the player. The Orange Soapstone, summons (player or NPC) which are plentiful, and many players equip above their level to help new players, the ability to play online, offline, in human or hollow form basically throws out any notion that invaders are a problem, not to mention the Black Seperation Crystal, upgrading weapons is an easy way to become powerful fast, the Drake Sword is an easy first weapon if you need it, the game supplies Gold Pine Resin and Black Firebombs early in the game and most people's first boss after the Asylum (the Taurus Demon) has a blatant plunging attack opportunity, etc.

Secondly, the game's difficulty is inherent in everything it does, and is there for a reason. An easy mode which only reduces the difficulty of combat in PvE would not be ideal because nothing else is presented on a platter and it would make for a short and boring game. With no real story, the bulk of the lore is obtained from item descriptions and conjecture. It would also take away the immense satisfaction (which, by the way, is enough reason to leave the game unchanged by itself) that comes from defeating a boss. In short, the game is designed with thorough, intuitive players in mind, and to cater to those who aren't willing to put in the effort in one aspect would just make the game confusing. The only thing I can see coming from an easy mode is an all-around making the game more straightforward. Which is basically what we've seen happen in most other series' and it almost goes without saying, that would be a bad thing for fans of the first two games.

Lastly, the lessons and message of Dark Souls require a challenging and inspired game. It aims to force the player to use their intuition and try different things, to pay attention to NPCs, to try and make sense of what is happening. If you don't want that experience then you shouldn't be playing Dark Souls.

There's no elitism about it. There is just those who put in the time and effort and those who would rather see the product cater to them than the other way around. I'm not better than another person because I play Dark Souls. But nor are they entitled to play Dark Souls at my expense. And quite frankly if you can't get through the game with the plentiful co-op summons, excellent, helpful, knowledgable community, so much of the playerbase willing to give their time to help YOU, then play another game.

May this be the last we see of the topic, please.

The Plunk:
It's rather entitled to demand that the game change just for you.

And demanding that a game never change just for you isn't?

Thing is, nobody is really demanding a change. A rumour started that there was going to be a change (and an optional one at that) and a sizable segment of the fanbase spat their dummies and thew a tantrum at the prospect of others potentially being able to join their exclusive little club.

Whats great is this whole controversy started off with a mis-translation of what the main guy at From Soft said. He was saying he was hoping to find someway to guide people through the game easier, like extra little messages or small things that directed the player, not that they should add a different difficulty. (I didnt find this out, I took it from Epicnamebro, which ill post his video here. He's one of the main heads in the DaS community).

Anyway, ill finally put my views down about this easy mode.

1. The game isnt actually as hard as people make it seem. The few things that usually make it hard are people not understanding what to o to work the mechanics of the game. (i.e. upgrading weapons, moving slowly, direction). This isnt to say its hard to get into the game, but that is a game design flaw. When I started my first playthrough, I quit cus I got stuck with the skeletons. I finally came back after doing just a little bit of research and talking to the community, and BAM, its much easier.

2. There really is no way to effectively incorporate an easy mode without ruining the game, not just for those who play on hard, but also for the new players who want an easy mode.
Have you actually thought about how long the game would be if everything was easy? You would finish it in less than 10 hours, just by nurfing stats.
The only effective way to make the game easier would be to nerf the stats of the enemies and to change the enviroment to be less lethal. I know that since I know most of the mechanics now, most of the time is the enviorment mechanics that I am not paying attention to that get me killed.
Nerfing the stats of the enemies also makes the game less rewarding. My first kill of Capra would be as -near- as amazing if I wasnt facing the normal Capra, and that would take a BIG part of the game away. This game is about those moments where you just sit back, smile, and take a sip of your drink as you stand of the grave of the boss you just beat.
There is no effective way to cross Easy/Hard modes on online. Its already hard enough to find invasions in some areas of the game, and your thinking of cutting that even more, no. Also, you cant cross the difficulties because one person who got Gwyndolins set on the normal difficulty is going to be pissed that someone on easy went and 3 Gwyndolin with an unupgraded longsword. Thats where you hurt the old players.

3. Dark Souls already has -many- mechanics to make it easier. Player Phantoms, offline mode, Way of the White. There is also no effective way of changing the death mechanics to. Have you actually thought of what you lose in death? 1 humanity if your human, everything else can be retrieved. What do you lose if you dont retrieve it? Lose souls (which can be spent at a bonfire/blacksmith before you go on a hard area), and any lose humanity. -Nothing else-.

But yeah, thats all im pretty much gonna say here, I dont like to type to much, it just got away from me XD.

Honestly, I agree with ENB on this. This video explains perfectly why there shouldnt be an easy mode, and he is extremely respectful to the people on the other side of the debate. Its a great watch either way. The first half is very abstract reasons why, but the second half explains it pertaining to the mechanics of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b91BWzLigs

thethird0611:
There really is no way to effectively incorporate an easy mode without ruining the game, not just for those who play on hard, but also for the new players who want an easy mode.

Just add an offline mode with save/load enabled. And puff up the main character's stats a little to allow for a larger margin of error in combat. Poof. Easy mode.

I totally understand the arguments against an "easy mode" in Dark Souls, and I even agree with a couple of them (although I'm ambivalent about the subject in the entire), but this persistent fantasy that adding an easy mode would be "impossible", or "would destroy the mechanics of the game" or "would drain developer resources" is just silly. It would be so, so, so easy to add an easy mode, if adding an easy mode was indeed something they wanted to do. Whether that mode would be particularly rewarding to people who are accustomed to playing on normal is utterly irrelevant, since they wouldn't use it.

Mind summing up the ENB video for me? I went to check it out but at 40 minutes it's way past my threshold.

Considering that the main appeal of the game is its gameplay, making it easier would kind of make it worse IMO. However, just because I wouldn't use it doesn't mean others wouldn't. Why stop more people from enjoying this franchise? I say go for it. Why does this game have to be some elite club that only super hardcore gamers are allowed to experience?

I don't give a shit, so I went with bacon, even though I hate bacon.

I love the series, but an easy mode won't change it. Although I would like to see maybe some restrictions. Hammer home the point that the game is meant to be played on the normal (ludicrously difficult) difficulty. Maybe restrict all achievements to normal, make it so you can't leave hints. Honestly, that'd be enough for me.

Also: Dark Souls was a shit load easier than Demon's Souls, and no one really seemed to be bothered by that. So what's the big deal?

An optional easy mode? How horrible!

I voted yes, though I don't care that much. I'm mostly baffled that people are so freaked out over it.

I see three of these threads out on the front page. Seriously people, why make your own when there are many others to comment on? Bah. BAH I say! I will copy paste my response from another thread, that while an easy mode wouldn't effect me, it isn't entirely necessary; a better tutorial would be a godsend. Also disregard parts of the post directed towards the Op, that was for the op of the previous thread.

Broderick:
First of all, I love all of you(insert bob ross voice here). As other have suggested, there are quite a few tools already available for you(the OP) to use for your particular circumstance. Being hollow will cut your chances of being invaded to 0%, and your item find still goes up with your humanity counter till 10, regardless of whether you are hollowed or not. The way of white helps cut down invasions substantially too. As for elemental weapons? Most people early level use them because it is easy to pray on new players with them. Ever see someone wielding a lightning uchigatana slamming on someones shield before they either get blood loss or die from the lightening damage? It is REALLY scary for a new player. Better quality armors tend to have better resistance to such elemental damage, so many players tend to just upgrade their weapon to +15 AND use a resin of their choosing.

As for the debate at hand.... I do enjoy these debates, but this horse is tired and beaten. I am on the side that thinks a better tutorial would be a godsend to those new players and people wanting an easy mode. Frankly, I think most of the difficulty has to do with the learning curve of the game, and knowing how to respond to an enemies move set. The game does not do a good job of explaining how certain vital things work, like humanity(I didn't even know it increased item find till after sen's fortress). Heck, the game does not even tell you that you can roll jump. If those, and things like stats(Yes I know you can figure out what stat does what in the stats screen, but the game does not tell you that either) were better explained, people would have a much easier time I think.

A lot of the gripes with an easy mode basically come from the view that there are already tons of tools for players to make the game easier on themselves, so why have the dev waste time and money making an easy mode? There is way of the white, and hollowing if you do not want to be invaded. There is upgrading your armor and weapons to deal more damage and take more. There is kindling bonfires for extra flasks( I know I needed them the first time I faced manus). Players can leave messages for other players, so they can help(or troll if they prefer) others. There is player summoning to help you take out whole areas, including bosses; there is even a covenant(in game guild like thing) designed around that particular addition to the game.

The game also expects players to learn from their mistakes, or die. There are very few deaths that cant be avoided(the exception being the first time you face seath the scaleless, and even then you can just wear a ring of sacrifice to negate the loss of dying. The anor londo archer section was a bit bullshit though, mainly because you did not fight any silver knights up to that point, and you do not know their move set. The knights are easily parried and can be cheesed by poison arrows however. Also the bed of chaos was a terribly designed fight, and if I remember correctly, even the devs agree.

So...yeah! I think a better tutorial would be the best route frankly. It solves early player confusion, and helps show what the player may be coming up against, bettering them for the rest of the game. If there were less confusion about such things, and no bs sections, I believe the game would be near perfect for its niche.

Broderick:
I see three of these threads out on the front page. Seriously people, why make your own when there are many others to comment on? Bah. BAH I say! I will copy paste my response from another thread, that while an easy mode wouldn't effect me, it isn't entirely necessary; a better tutorial would be a godsend. Also disregard parts of the post directed towards the Op, that was for the op of the previous thread.

The strange part is that they seem to always divert the discussion as well. Seem to be more interested in how I play the game differently from them and somehow that seems to get in the way of some kind of Dark Souls Feng Shui.

Wow this is the third thread on this on the front page. It's nice to know Dark Souls is getting so much recognition on the Escapist. I'm not going to argue anything though. It was fun at first but now it's getting boring. The horse has been beaten to death, and now it's being beaten into the ground so i'm going to put my spices on it and make bacon out of it before it gets buried.

Well i should have done that but i replied to another argument in a different thread so no bacon for me, but that's what i'm voting for.

BloatedGuppy:

thethird0611:
There really is no way to effectively incorporate an easy mode without ruining the game, not just for those who play on hard, but also for the new players who want an easy mode.

Just add an offline mode with save/load enabled. And puff up the main character's stats a little to allow for a larger margin of error in combat. Poof. Easy mode.

I totally understand the arguments against an "easy mode" in Dark Souls, and I even agree with a couple of them (although I'm ambivalent about the subject in the entire), but this persistent fantasy that adding an easy mode would be "impossible", or "would destroy the mechanics of the game" or "would drain developer resources" is just silly. It would be so, so, so easy to add an easy mode, if adding an easy mode was indeed something they wanted to do. Whether that mode would be particularly rewarding to people who are accustomed to playing on normal is utterly irrelevant, since they wouldn't use it.

Mind summing up the ENB video for me? I went to check it out but at 40 minutes it's way past my threshold.

See, but that fix is already almost fully implemented in the game. Like on the xbox, you can get into offline mode just by starting an xbox live party. Buffing up the players stats also wouldn't do to much either, because if you dont know how to fight the enemies, your going to die anyway. Also, you have plenty of souls that you can spend on your character/equipment before the first boss fight. Heck, after you get used to the mechanics, you dont even have to level up health or endurance. Im playing a mage right now who only has intelligence for spells and faith for miracles, and im doing just fine, and its my second play through.
Now the whole save/load thing, I just dont agree with, from the actual game design perspective. You take all consequence out of the persons actions with it, and it can also hurt game mechanics. Say an easy mode is running through Sen's Fortress, and comes across the small walkway with the mage shooting at them. All the easy mode person has to do is save, then can die as many times as they want. Death has -no- consequence, when in DaS, its meant to be a consequence for not doing something right. Also, if invasions were still enabled, they could get invaded, the invader kill them, and then just reload. Again, no consequence, and it also takes the fear away from invasions, when they are supposed to have fear and suspense.
Though maybe you have something to counter those to, so ill gladly listen :)

Anyway, yeah, ill sum up a few points from his vid. the 40 minutes is understandable, heh.
-The very first point is the 'Why do you care' argument. Well, we care because we love this game, we love how the difficulty is intertwined with the game in a spectacular fashion, and many of use dont want the game to be lessened by adding an easy mode. (When I say lessen, I mean the games impact, not cus 'NOOBS SUCK LOL')
-Making an easy mode would take away from the sense of acheivement of beating a boss, finding an awesome item in a difficult place, or just finding an awesome shortcut.
-On the box it says 'Prepare to Die'. When it says that, it doesnt mean 'Prepare to fail'. Dieing in DaS is not failure, giving up is. Removing that pressure to succeed would lessen the game, and lessens the achievement. With easy mode present, you -can- succeed. You -know- your going to succeed. It cheapens the game. Without an easy mode option, you have to find a way to succeed, to proceed, to overcome. This game provides the risk of failure, which barely any other games do. Also, if you want to put an easy way out in the game, you put it in -everyones- game.
-Even though you may difficulty sliders would make the game better, the dev's may be showing you how difficulty can be fun. A game not having difficulty sliders is a design choice, its something different from mainstream games. Its different like reading books from different authors, watch different movies with different writers, etc. This is a game that is not like mainstream games, it strays away from it, and it is there because of the dev's.
-Most of the elitism is not, especially if you think challenge runs are trying to be that. People who know DaS, want those breakthroughs, those achievements again, because the longer you play, the less fun it is because it gets extremely easy.

Now here comes the mechanics

-Making the game easier would make the game very, -very-, short. This game doesnt has 10 minute long cut scenes, and doesn't have long walks to get you 'immersed'. An experienced player could speed through half the game in half an hour.
-The only way to make the enemies easier would to change the stats of the enemies. This takes a crucial part of the game away, and it would make the game -way- to easy. The game is about discovery, learning how to work the mechanics of the game, learning the moves of the enemies, learning to take this slow, methodical way through the game. Lowering the stats of the enemies loses that whole aspect, and would make combat nothing, as well as shortening the game to -extreme- levels.
-Addressing the issue of 'Wouldn't playing a lesser version be better than not playing at all". No. If you take out the part of the game that makes it difficult, the trial and error process, you are left with a short game, minimal narrative, none of the major features of a mediocre RPG game. No one will drop 50 bucks on that and be satisfied.
-With how short it would be, you would totally miss the narrative of the game, because you would blow through it. The narrative does not lend itself to moving fast through it, and no one would stop and see the story.
-Adding an easy mode is targeting an audience that the game wasnt meant for, the players who dont have the patience to endure the trial and error process, or even look up a solution online, and you think they will appreciate the minimalist story? Nope. If you change the difficulty, you have to change how the narrative is presented, which is telling the dev's to change another MAJOR part of the game.
-Addressing the 'Selling to more people makes money is better'. Throwing more money at the games would make it better, especially if your asking the game dev's to change the whole game design to make it more accessible to the mainstream. Awesome example. "Dark souls is chocolate Ice cream. From Soft are chocolate lovers and make the -best- chocolate ice cream in the worlds. DaS fans are the chocolate ice cream, and freakin love it. Then others come along and say "You need to make this shit in vanilla". Nah, there are already dozens of places that you can buy some stank ass vanilla ice cream. "Nah, but they can make more cash by stopping thinking about chocolate ice cream and making vanilla ice cream, they can make a better chocolate ice cream". Nope."
-This game is -easy-, especially if you get in the online community of DaS. There are -thousands- of people who would love to help you.

There ya go. Sorry it took to long, I went to his video for the points. I really wanted to use something close to his words, because he explains it awesomely.

Of course it should have an 'Easy' mode. Not everyone plays games for the same reasons (story vs challenge), not everyone has the same time to devote to a game (unemployed vs full timer) and ultimately no-one should be forced to play their game by the standards of someone else. Who really gives a flying fuck if Dark Souls has an optional easy mode? Those opposed to it wouldn't use it and those who support it would get more enjoyment from their purchase. The inclusion of such an option would hurt no-one and open up the game to a larger audience.

Take as an example Fallout: New Vegas with its 'Hardcore' mode which limits ammo capacity and introduces limb crippling (that can't be healed with Stims), dehydration, hunger, sleep deprivation and follower death - now personally I've never played a game of NV that didn't have this mode enabled, but does it impact my gaming experience that others choose to play their game with the training wheels firmly welded on? Of course not, and for me to complain at other NV players for not playing the game on the most challenging setting would be peevish of me at best.

Colt47:

Broderick:
I see three of these threads out on the front page. Seriously people, why make your own when there are many others to comment on? Bah. BAH I say! I will copy paste my response from another thread, that while an easy mode wouldn't effect me, it isn't entirely necessary; a better tutorial would be a godsend. Also disregard parts of the post directed towards the Op, that was for the op of the previous thread.

The strange part is that they seem to always divert the discussion as well. Seem to be more interested in how I play the game differently from them and somehow that seems to get in the way of some kind of Dark Souls Feng Shui.

Indeed. Sorry that your thread got high jacked. I did my best to address your points as well as the other discussion at hand. I guess people have the dark souls fever at the moment...

If anything should be changed there should be fewer one hits. That's it, really. But then again; nothing -should- be changed. That's simply something I think might make an improvement personally. I don't believe it -should- be implemented, but might make the game flow just a little bit nicer if it were.

thethird0611:
Though maybe you have something to counter those to, so ill gladly listen :)

Well, you're debating whether or not you would find the mechanics of an easy mode rewarding, which we already covered. The easy mode wouldn't be for you. You're not meant to find it compelling. Any more than you'd find the easy mode in any other game compelling. I suspect you would find it too easy.

As to the video points...there's a lot of concern about the kind of experience other people would have with an easy Dark Souls, which...they're not having ANY experience with it now, are they? They're just not playing it. I've said before and I'll say again...core, life long gamers tend to overlook just how accustomed to gaming conventions they are, and tend to overestimate the ability of people new to the hobby to immediately rise to their level. Just because I've been playing for 30 years doesn't mean I get to impose my expectations for an experience on everyone else. Which is why we have the concept of different levels of difficulty to begin with.

As to the game being way too short...you need to remember that difficulty is relative. For new or casual gamers, an "Easy" Dark Souls might be every bit as grueling as the normal Dark Souls is for current fans.

It's all irrelevant, really...I don't think From really has any intention of making an "easy" Dark Souls, and all this furor and noise will have been for nothing.

BloatedGuppy:

thethird0611:
Though maybe you have something to counter those to, so ill gladly listen :)

Well, you're debating whether or not you would find the mechanics of an easy mode rewarding, which we already covered. The easy mode wouldn't be for you. You're not meant to find it compelling. Any more than you'd find the easy mode in any other game compelling. I suspect you would find it too easy.

As to the video points...there's a lot of concern about the kind of experience other people would have with an easy Dark Souls, which...they're not having ANY experience with it now, are they? They're just not playing it. I've said before and I'll say again...core, life long gamers tend to overlook just how accustomed to gaming conventions they are, and tend to overestimate the ability of people new to the hobby to immediately rise to their level. Just because I've been playing for 30 years doesn't mean I get to impose my expectations for an experience on everyone else. Which is why we have the concept of different levels of difficulty to begin with.

As to the game being way too short...you need to remember that difficulty is relative. For new or casual gamers, an "Easy" Dark Souls might be every bit as grueling as the normal Dark Souls is for current fans.

It's all irrelevant, really...I don't think From really has any intention of making an "easy" Dark Souls, and all this furor and noise will have been for nothing.

The thing is though, this game is actually easy, as long as you take the time to learn with the game. If you go on easy mode and actually take it slowly and learn the game, by the time you get to Sen's fortress (like 1/4 of the way), it will be to easy, and you blow through the game. If not, people will just blow through enemies like no other, and it goes back to these points.

-The only way to make the enemies easier would to change the stats of the enemies. This takes a crucial part of the game away, and it would make the game -way- to easy. The game is about discovery, learning how to work the mechanics of the game, learning the moves of the enemies, learning to take this slow, methodical way through the game. Lowering the stats of the enemies loses that whole aspect, and would make combat nothing, as well as shortening the game to -extreme- levels.
-Addressing the issue of 'Wouldn't playing a lesser version be better than not playing at all". No. If you take out the part of the game that makes it difficult, the trial and error process, you are left with a short game, minimal narrative, none of the major features of a mediocre RPG game. No one will drop 50 bucks on that and be satisfied.

So that would make From Soft look bad, and -less- people would buy their games after that.

From what ive heard, From Soft is making an easier learning curve in the beginning (which is the only thing I see that needs to be changed), and keeping the difficulty the rest of the game. Honestly, if there was a better learning process in-game in DaS, more people would see there is no reason for an easy mode.

isnt one argument ridden topic enough for the moment?

I say go for it. I mean broadening your market so that you can have a larger profit which then means that you are able to include more games into your franchise. I also think Dark Souls should include a harder difficulty as well.

I think Dark Souls should be changed to have a proper fuckin manual.

I mean I Started this game yesterday, and this game, like how many games before it, Elder Scrolls Oblivion being one, doesn't have shit for a manual.

HOW HARD IS IT to put in a page, that tells what the symbols mean? This is your weapon damage, this your weight, this is whatever.

10 pages of information, that's all a manual needs. Doesn't need to be Ultima IV cloth map with 3 books of stories and stuff, just 10 bloody pages with a screen shot of each screen and some information.

Sick of figuring this shit out as I go along.

Devs are fucking lazy.

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