WiiU Specs unveiled: PC gaming officially cheaper than console gaming.

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

Stavros Dimou:

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Of course it can't. We are not talking about exclusives or software here,we just comment on that Nintendo makes 200€ worth of hardware and charges it 320€. So you don't care that the company in order to make people buy the system lied and said that that they are selling the hardware at a loss,when in fact you pay almost double price for it ?

They have to pay people you know. You're not thinking about the rest of the parts either. They said they have to sell one game to make up for the loss, I'm standing by that, plus it's a custom.
Pc gaming has been cheaper than consoles since 2005 at the least I don't see why you even bothered with this besides trying to get a response out of people.
image


The games can look good, I dunno what more you want.

ToastiestZombie:

Stavros Dimou:
Snip

You're simply pulling facts out from thin air because the CPU isn't overly powerful. If Nintendo says they're selling it at a loss, they're goddamn selling it at a loss. Why do you trust your own limited view of how many costs go into building and selling consoles over the word of the president of Nintendo himself? There are a LOT of costs to making one singular piece of tech, and I can guarantee you that you can't get a PC that could run games like Black Ops 2 at 720p at 60fps for under $300.

I doubt you can get a pc the size of a wii U at the cost of 300$ that's for damn sure.

Stavros Dimou:

ToastiestZombie:

Stavros Dimou:

Because the president of Nintendo has a motive to lie: money. His mission is to make it so Nintendo gets as much money as it can. But I don't have a motive to lie,so that's why I trust myself more than Nintendo's president.
The truth is that I tried to find which parts equal similar performance to those of WiiU,and I found out that parts with such specs are so old you can't even find them in stores any more. So by buying the cheapest parts I could find (cpu,gpu,etc..) they would still be more powerful than those used by WiiU.
If you don't believe me and you think that WiiU is a powerhouse,then OK.

You really think the CEO who took a massive pay cut because the 3DS wasn't selling well, who admitted the Wii U didn't have many good games released over Christmas and said sorry for it would say they're losing money on a console just to get more money? Explain to me how "We're selling it at a loss" is a legitimate business practice, because if it was why didn't Nintendo do it for every other of their systems. The truth is, selling at a loss is a very negative thing for a company and share-holders and investors do NOT like it because it means they get much less money. Why would Iwata lie about something that negative just to get a few sympathy buys? You haven't answered that yet.

When did I say I think that it's a powerhouse? It's not, my PC is a powerhouse and my Wii U is my Nintendo exclusive machine.

Are you kidding me ?
By saying that they sell the system at a loss and hiding the true specs of the system,they make you believe that its much more powerful than what it really is,so you get a perception of value that is fake. Thinking that a product has good value for its money is a very important factor that drives sales. And WiiU simply put,doesn't have a value/money ratio good enough for the costumers.

You know what gets more sales than saying that something's being sold at a loss? Pricing the damn thing at a lower price. Nintendo's extremely clever with pricing, they wouldn't create an elaborate ruse of selling things at a loss if they could price the thing lower and therefore get more sales. And like I said, investors and shareholders absolutely despise things being sold at a loss. Why would Nintendo willingly piss of them and make price their console higher than it should? You seem to have a really bad grasp of basic econimics, because selling at a loss=VERY bad. If they were lying I think we'd know by now, because there is a ton of people who know the cost of the console Nintendo who could easily come out and sue them over false statements. What you're accusing Nintendo of doing is highly illegal, so if you really believe they're doing it go to the courts. You have no evidence except "He's a CEO who wants money, and I don't want money!", whereas the evidence that they actually ARE selling it at a loss comes straight from the CEO himself.

What most of you are missing is that, this is a piece of Application specific hardware. It doesn't require to run Windows or deal with other overhead.

WiiU might be similar to a mid-range PC. But a same game would run better on it because

a) Nintendo / Third-party devs actually optimize console games, unlike PC Games which are developed to run on an range of architectures instead of a particular spec.

b) Console Devs actually do not need to deal with unrelated platform B.S. (Audio drivers / GFX drivers / Third-party apps breaking APIs), etc. While most if not all of this is common on a PC game during the play test stage. (and in some horrible cases on actual launches!)

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Thread is too long so I don't know if anyone already said this... but... inb4 Dolphin U.

Stavros Dimou:

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Of course it can't. We are not talking about exclusives or software here,we just comment on that Nintendo makes 200€ worth of hardware and charges it 320€. So you don't care that the company in order to make people buy the system lied and said that that they are selling the hardware at a loss,when in fact you pay almost double price for it ?

I enquired about a gamepad repair just for curiosity and to get an estimate for the price and I gotta say, the gamepad is the expensive bit. A minor repair was 93 if it was out of warranty and a major repair was 140. So I think that needs to be factored into the whole thing aswell.

Though the console itself, Nintendo is almost definately making profit on. When did they say they were selling it at a loss? Nintendo have sold most of their recent machines at profit for some time now.

And gaming PC, at 1080p, which good framerates, in every game, for 300? Not bloody likely.

Gaming PC at 720p with good framerates for 300? Plausible.

This all said I'm running a Pentium e5700 dual core and an ATI 4770 and most things up until 2011 play fine. Except GTA4. Which runs like arse no matter what I do. It will be upgraded to an i5 and GTX 600-series when I actually have a job again....

(If anybody is wondering I play games on near every format going from the past 2 generations (currently ready to switch on and play: PS3, Wii, Wii U, PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Mega Drive, Master System, PC) except the Xbox because meh not paying for a 140 machine and 50 live subscription to play Halo.)

DazZ.:

Emulation is not a trivial matter.

Here's a basic experiment which you can try if you have nothing better to do.

Get an SNES. Then get a top-spec PC from about the year 2000.

The PC, on paper has a 10 year technological lead on the SNES, AND it would not be unreasonable to claim it has about 1000 times the power.

Now run an emulator on that PC, and see how well it runs compared to the real thing.

emulation as a rule is SLOW. very slow.

So slow in fact that you can count on needing a minimum of about 100x the raw power of the system you're emulating unless you get incredibly lucky with the hardware you're emulating being similar to what you're running it on.

(Which on paper at least means the easiest thing to emulate on a PC would be an original Xbox.)

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Snip

Oh hey Jeffers, should remember to ctrl+f your username on these threads and if it finds anything not bother posting because you always ninja me but with much more detail.

Don't forget though that the basic wii u is around $200 with the gamepad, the gamepad being maybe $110, i don't know the exchange but Nintendo quoted me 93 for a repair out of warranty when I enquired out of curiosity.

SkarKrow:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Snip

Oh hey Jeffers, should remember to ctrl+f your username on these threads and if it finds anything not bother posting because you always ninja me but with much more detail.

Wherever you see a Nintendo topic, I'll be there.

image

Don't forget though that the basic wii u is around $200 with the gamepad, the gamepad being maybe $110, i don't know the exchange but Nintendo quoted me 93 for a repair out of warranty when I enquired out of curiosity.

Amazon's got the Wii U Basic for 229. At a guess I'd say that means Nintendo are selling it at around 180-200 to retailers, in which case they're almost certainly making a loss on hardware. Iwata admitted a couple of months ago that they're selling at a loss this time round, and the tech and price they're selling it at would suggest as much.

So the future of gaming is about doing more with less power?

Nintendo's going green :D

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

SkarKrow:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Snip

Oh hey Jeffers, should remember to ctrl+f your username on these threads and if it finds anything not bother posting because you always ninja me but with much more detail.

Wherever you see a Nintendo topic, I'll be there.

image

Don't forget though that the basic wii u is around $200 with the gamepad, the gamepad being maybe $110, i don't know the exchange but Nintendo quoted me 93 for a repair out of warranty when I enquired out of curiosity.

Amazon's got the Wii U Basic for 229. At a guess I'd say that means Nintendo are selling it at around 180-200 to retailers, in which case they're almost certainly making a loss on hardware. Iwata admitted a couple of months ago that they're selling at a loss this time round, and the tech and price they're selling it at would suggest as much.

I'll make sure to sign a calvin and hobbes silhouette into the sky when I need you in future. (I tried to find an image of this unsuccessfully).

Maybe they are selling it at a loss, I couldn't tell you to be honest but it's plausible and I have absolutely no reason to doubt Iwata, from what he's done the past few years he seems a very genuine man who cares about his company and it's fans.

I did get mine last week and I'm impressed with it, it feels natural to use, the gamepad is incredicomfy, the pro controller is brilliant, the thing runs cold and really quiet, looks nice too, games are good and Mario looks brilliant in HD. The Miiverse is also lovely with it's moderation to filter out the trolls and drawings of cocks. Can't wait to get a few more games but thus is the bane of the early-adopter, until then I'll obsessively hunt down star coins!

Bhaalspawn:
So the future of gaming is about doing more with less power?

Nintendo's going green :D

Taste that 33W power draw, taste it and savour it. Runs quiet and fairly cool too.

And when you turn it off at the wal the standby light stays on for like an hour ._____. it runs on willpower rather than electricity.

I am very confused by how the OP intends to buy a PC with a $100 graphics card, a $50 CPU, a custom case with custom cooling, a Wii built in for backwards compatibility and a $50 controller with a fairly large and hi-res touchscreen attached to it for $350. I'm also at a bit of a loss about where he's going to hire the engineers to make the proprietary video streaming tech with whatever money's left from the hardware, too.

Nintendo may sell its consoles at a profit (not the Wii U, they've confirmed that they need one extra game purchase to break even, if I recall correctly), but they are still buying in massive bulk and assembling in factories they control entirely. There is no way you can put together the same machine for that price with off the shelf prices, let alone have it assembled in that form factor. $700 for an Alienware Steambox sure, but you can get three PS3s for that money and a couple of Wii Us.

SkarKrow:

I'll make sure to sign a calvin and hobbes silhouette into the sky when I need you in future. (I tried to find an image of this unsuccessfully).

Maybe they are selling it at a loss, I couldn't tell you to be honest but it's plausible and I have absolutely no reason to doubt Iwata, from what he's done the past few years he seems a very genuine man who cares about his company and it's fans.

Iwata is a fucking legend, and probably one of the single most underrated people in the gaming industry. I have no doubt that he not only genuinely cares for Nintendo and its fans, but for gaming. Reason being, before he became CEO, he spent nearly two decades developing games.

That's something neither Sony or Microsoft have. They're both run by money men, guys who studied business degreesm and ultimately only care about the bottom line. Iwata is one of the only corporate gaming CEO's I can think of (apart from Gabe) who's got any experience in the field of business he deals in. Not only that, but all accounts, he's a damn legend at what he did. He was the main programmer for Earthbound, and apparently the scripting code he wrote from scratch for the game is just insane. There's a claim that you could build an entire SNES emulator, just from the code he wrote for Earthbound. He not only worked on Pokemon Gold and Silver, but was single-handedly responsible for compressing the cartridge data to the point that Game Freak were able to fit a whole second continent into the game. According to TV Tropes, he also ported the battle code of Pokemon Stadium to the N64 inside of a week, despite not having access to any development documents. And apparently, he still occasionally chips in to help with the latest Kirby games when he has the spare time.

There simply isn't another game CEO out there (aside from Gabe) who's still as intimately involved with game development as Iwata. The fact that he has his own series of Iwata Asks videos, where he talks to developers about their new games, new gameplay mechanics, and general gaming goodness... can you imagine Bobby Kotick doing that? Or Steve Bulmer, or John Rititititicello? Fuck no. They're all business graduates, who just view games as another avenue to make money. None of them would know the first thing about scripting languages, or code, or game mechanics.

...sorry, somewhat tangential there. I'm something of an Iwata fan.

I did get mine last week and I'm impressed with it, it feels natural to use, the gamepad is incredicomfy, the pro controller is brilliant, the thing runs cold and really quiet, looks nice too, games are good and Mario looks brilliant in HD. The Miiverse is also lovely with it's moderation to filter out the trolls and drawings of cocks. Can't wait to get a few more games but thus is the bane of the early-adopter, until then I'll obsessively hunt down star coins!

I'm hopefully getting a tax rebate soon, so if I don't have the money before, that's how I plan to get mine. With somewhat brilliant timing, Rayman Legends and MH3:Ultimate should be out at the same time. Sounds pretty sweet to me, as I've been wanting to try out Monster Hunter for ages.

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:
So the future of gaming is about doing more with less power?

Nintendo's going green :D

Taste that 33W power draw, taste it and savour it. Runs quiet and fairly cool too.

And when you turn it off at the wal the standby light stays on for like an hour ._____. it runs on willpower rather than electricity.

No matter what you think of the Wii U's raw power, the fact that it only has a 33W power drain is an engineering miracle in itself.

Another day, another j-e-f-f-e-r-s /thread.

Whatever I had to say on the matter was effectively neutered by this:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

I don't think enough people read this before they continued arguing. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

SkarKrow:

I'll make sure to sign a calvin and hobbes silhouette into the sky when I need you in future. (I tried to find an image of this unsuccessfully).

Maybe they are selling it at a loss, I couldn't tell you to be honest but it's plausible and I have absolutely no reason to doubt Iwata, from what he's done the past few years he seems a very genuine man who cares about his company and it's fans.

Iwata is a fucking legend, and probably one of the single most underrated people in the gaming industry. I have no doubt that he not only genuinely cares for Nintendo and its fans, but for gaming. Reason being, before he became CEO, he spent nearly two decades developing games.

That's something neither Sony or Microsoft have. They're both run by money men, guys who studied business degreesm and ultimately only care about the bottom line. Iwata is one of the only corporate gaming CEO's I can think of (apart from Gabe) who's got any experience in the field of business he deals in. Not only that, but all accounts, he's a damn legend at what he did. He was the main programmer for Earthbound, and apparently the scripting code he wrote from scratch for the game is just insane. There's a claim that you could build an entire SNES emulator, just from the code he wrote for Earthbound. He not only worked on Pokemon Gold and Silver, but was single-handedly responsible for compressing the cartridge data to the point that Game Freak were able to fit a whole second continent into the game. According to TV Tropes, he also ported the battle code of Pokemon Stadium to the N64 inside of a week, despite not having access to any development documents. And apparently, he still occasionally chips in to help with the latest Kirby games when he has the spare time.

There simply isn't another game CEO out there (aside from Gabe) who's still as intimately involved with game development as Iwata. The fact that he has his own series of Iwata Asks videos, where he talks to developers about their new games, new gameplay mechanics, and general gaming goodness... can you imagine Bobby Kotick doing that? Or Steve Bulmer, or John Rititititicello? Fuck no. They're all business graduates, who just view games as another avenue to make money. None of them would know the first thing about scripting languages, or code, or game mechanics.

...sorry, somewhat tangential there. I'm something of an Iwata fan.

I did get mine last week and I'm impressed with it, it feels natural to use, the gamepad is incredicomfy, the pro controller is brilliant, the thing runs cold and really quiet, looks nice too, games are good and Mario looks brilliant in HD. The Miiverse is also lovely with it's moderation to filter out the trolls and drawings of cocks. Can't wait to get a few more games but thus is the bane of the early-adopter, until then I'll obsessively hunt down star coins!

I'm hopefully getting a tax rebate soon, so if I don't have the money before, that's how I plan to get mine. With somewhat brilliant timing, Rayman Legends and MH3:Ultimate should be out at the same time. Sounds pretty sweet to me, as I've been wanting to try out Monster Hunter for ages.

Man I didn't know all of that stuff about Iwata (only some of it), dude is fucking even more legendary now. I have nothing but respect for a lot of people at Nintendo, b ecause a lot of people there care about the most important part of games: FUN.

Oh and anyone who worked on Pokemon Gold & Silver makes my list of favourite people ever. I played the hell out of those as a kid and I love them. Still a big pokemon player to this day.

Miyamoto is underated of late, I've seen people calling him an irrelevant relic, the same people who will to this day clame the cunt who made quake has any importance to modern gaming besides trolling forums with stupid claims. Miyamoto is easily one of the most creative and innovative souls in the industry and he lives for games. He's a man who will delay a game without hesitation by several months, with his apologies, because he wants to release a masterpiece as opposed to a classic.

AH I expect to get a nice rebate come April myself. I splurged my bonus and redundancy on mine! XD I recommend Mario Bros U if you like 2D platforming, it's great fun, fairly challening and looks fucking gorgeous. Can play it in the bathroom too.

Rayman Legends demo was great fun, pre-ordered it, and I'm intrigued by Monster Hunter 2 Ultimate, I fancy picking it up I was put off greatly by the Wii version because Friend Codes D=<.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

SkarKrow:

Bhaalspawn:
So the future of gaming is about doing more with less power?

Nintendo's going green :D

Taste that 33W power draw, taste it and savour it. Runs quiet and fairly cool too.

And when you turn it off at the wal the standby light stays on for like an hour ._____. it runs on willpower rather than electricity.

No matter what you think of the Wii U's raw power, the fact that it only has a 33W power drain is an engineering miracle in itself.

It's really impressive that it draws so little.

Oh and, postscript, new 3D mario title for E3 I'm betting, can't wait, Galaxy and Galaxy 2 easily justified the Wii's existence to me those were just exquisite games.

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

*cough* yeah give google a go some time. It could and it will.

The Diabolical Biz:
Another day, another j-e-f-f-e-r-s /thread.

Whatever I had to say on the matter was effectively neutered by this:

I don't think enough people read this before they continued arguing. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight.

image

I really would encourage people to check out the Neogaf thread. I'm not a tech-head by any means, but even I find it interesting (and quite entertaining) seeing very clever people get thrown through the loop by what Nintendo's come up with. It's like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Currently, the tech-heads have agreed that Nintendo put all the eDRAM memory in the GPU for some specific reason. The thing is, no-one can figure out what.

Nothing quite as entertaining as seeing eggheads get totally stumped.

ToastiestZombie:

Stavros Dimou:

Explain me how an IBM POWER6 processor with 3 cores running at 1.6Ghz (WiiU) is more powerful than an IBM POWER 6 processor with 3 cores at 3.2Ghz (xbox360) ?

Oh and no,you dont have to add the costs of the monitor in the computer's price. That's like getting a new TV every time you get a new console,and from what I know more than 90% of the people doesn't.

Alright, so the CPU may be less powerful (but we still don't know because console CPUs aren't as simple as computer CPU's), but it's been confirmed that the GPU is more powerful and you can see this in the Wii U's version of Trine 2, a GPU heavy game. It runs at a standard much, much closer to the PC than the 360's version which looks crap compared to the PC version. It's also been confirmed to have much more RAM than the 360, the 360 has 512mb of shared RAM and the WII has 2gb of RAM (1gb for the games, 1 for the OS), and it's been confirmed to have Nintendo's equivalent of Blu Ray discs compared to the Xbox still uses their equivalent of DVDS (The reason LA Noire came on 3 discs on the 360, compared to 1 on the PS3).

Oh, and are you taking every single thing you need to build a PC into consideration? Here's what you need to build a PC:
.CPU
.GPU
.Motherboard
.Case
.Hardrive
.OS
.Thermal glue
.Fans
.Network card
.It's recommended you get a Disc-Drive
.Keyboard
.Mouse

I can confirm that you can't get a PC of equal or better power for $350.

You're also implying that everyone owns a decent, 1080p monitor. Unless you want to use your PC on your TV you'll have to buy a monitor. Most people buying a desktop PC for the first time don't own a monitor, yet pretty much everyone owns a TV. It's sensible to take that into consideration.

You don't need extra fans (CPU fan excluded but you can get CPU packaged with a fan at the same price as without). You don't need a network card, almost every mainboard has one onboard. A disc drive is recommended, ok that depends what else you have available. The only reason you really need a disc drive is to install the OS, but the installation can be easily done with a usb stick (I recently got a new PC and it doesn't have a disc drive). Almost everything else could be done by downloading the software from the internet.
While you need a keyboard and mouse, I think you shouldn't count it to the actual PC, because you don't have to get new ones for each new PC. If I divide the price for my mouse and keyboard between each computer I used them, the price would be about 15€ (3 PC's).

I think I understand what you're saying... It's time to get an xbox!

I'd like to see a gaming computer for less than $300.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

The Diabolical Biz:
Another day, another j-e-f-f-e-r-s /thread.

Whatever I had to say on the matter was effectively neutered by this:

I don't think enough people read this before they continued arguing. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight.

image

I really would encourage people to check out the Neogaf thread. I'm not a tech-head by any means, but even I find it interesting (and quite entertaining) seeing very clever people get thrown through the loop by what Nintendo's come up with. It's like a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Currently, the tech-heads have agreed that Nintendo put all the eDRAM memory in the GPU for some specific reason. The thing is, no-one can figure out what.

Nothing quite as entertaining as seeing eggheads get totally stumped.

Well it's dynamic and it enhances performance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDRAM
At least that's what wiki says.
Dynamic memory is pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Random_Access_Memory
I'd say it's because it's small and has a great deal of power and flexibility.
We won't know what they will use it for until they use it though, the potential is rather high.

SkarKrow:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

SkarKrow:

Taste that 33W power draw, taste it and savour it. Runs quiet and fairly cool too.

And when you turn it off at the wal the standby light stays on for like an hour ._____. it runs on willpower rather than electricity.

No matter what you think of the Wii U's raw power, the fact that it only has a 33W power drain is an engineering miracle in itself.

It's really impressive that it draws so little.

Oh and, postscript, new 3D mario title for E3 I'm betting, can't wait, Galaxy and Galaxy 2 easily justified the Wii's existence to me those were just exquisite games.

Less power usage means more efficiency means more power potential on overclocking meaning more power.
At least that is how I think it goes.
I could be way off here.

Assassin Xaero:
I'd like to see a gaming computer for less than $300.

You just have to youtube it.
Though a 400-500$ PC is much better.

GrimHeaper:

Less power usage means more efficiency means more power potential on overclocking meaning more power.
At least that is how I think it goes.
I could be way off here.

Umm...

Not quite, for one I'm hardly gonna overclock my Wii U's cpu. It just means it uses a shitload less power, which makes it cheaper to run first and foremost.

Though if we're on about PC's if it's drawing less power to do the same job as something that draws more... hmm here:

Exhibit A draws 100W, gives performance of 80.

Exhibit B draws 50W, gives performance of 80.

All other things equal, B is more efficient, it gives the same performance for less power usage.

Potentially that can have implications overclocking and overvolting and give you more room to play with I suppose, but overclocking is more a case of hardware manufacturers building in buffers for safety reasons, usually very large ones that can be abused. Though overclocking will increase power use.

At any rate iirc both the PS3 and 360 draw about 70W on average and can vary significantly between different games and idling on the OS. The Wii U seems to just draw around 30W for pretty much any game and idling and doesn't hvary much.

It'll be interesting to see whether that means anything beyond it just being really bloody efficient.

GrimHeaper:

Well it's dynamic and it enhances performance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDRAM
At least that's what wiki says.
Dynamic memory is pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Random_Access_Memory
I'd say it's because it's small and has a great deal of power and flexibility.
We won't know what they will use it for until they use it though, the potential is rather high.

I have neither the tech know-how, nor the vocabulary to adequately explain what's going with the memory in the Wii U. All I can say is that currently, people trying to work it out are in a constant state of "Ok, I think I see what that does... wait, what's that doing there?"

It's not just the fact that they're using eDRAM, but that they've apparently got quite a lot of it (37mb) set up in a very weird config (32mb/4mb/1mb, possibly), on a completely nonstandard die with a whole lot of unknown-as-of-yet parts to it. At least, that's the jist of what I got. To make things even more confusing, Nintendo has apparently got some fancy new patented memory controller working in the RAM that helps minimize changes in bus direction, or something or... wait what's that? Oh, it's my brain starting to seep out of my nostrils.

Basically, people know that there's some kind of plan at work here. Nintendo have definitely designed this with something specific in mind. But trying to work out what is nigh impossible. Until they work out what the rest of the die does, how the CPU works (they're still waiting on similar photos of the CPU) and just how the memory ties into all this, a lot of the functionality of this thing is a total mystery.

Less power usage means more efficiency means more power potential on overclocking meaning more power.
At least that is how I think it goes.
I could be way off here.

I think it's as much to do with the fact that electricity bills in Japan are apparently twice what they are in the US. When leccy's that expensive, you can't blame a company for trying to cut down power requirements.

Although yes, if the hardware is clocked lower, that could theoretically mean it could be overclocked easier. The only problem with that is that the Wii U uses a MCM module with the CPU and GPU all on one chipboard. I imagine keeping that thing from generating too much heat would have already been a bitch. I can't imagine the fans would appreciate the system getting overclocked as well.

SkarKrow:

At any rate iirc both the PS3 and 360 draw about 70W on average and can vary significantly between different games and idling on the OS. The Wii U seems to just draw around 30W for pretty much any game and idling and doesn't hvary much.

It'll be interesting to see whether that means anything beyond it just being really bloody efficient.

Any idea what rating the Wii U power supply unit is? Some people were hypothesizing that once developers have gotten used to the system, Nintendo could 'raise the limit' as it were on the power consumption of the Wii U if needed, essentially allowing the console to draw more power and push the hardware further if needed.

Thing is, from my view, that goes back into the whole 'overclocking' argument. Drawing extra power would make the whole thing damn near impossible to keep cool, when everything's all on one module. Maybe Nintendo have already factored for that though. They seem to have factored for a whole load else.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

SkarKrow:

At any rate iirc both the PS3 and 360 draw about 70W on average and can vary significantly between different games and idling on the OS. The Wii U seems to just draw around 30W for pretty much any game and idling and doesn't hvary much.

It'll be interesting to see whether that means anything beyond it just being really bloody efficient.

Any idea what rating the Wii U power supply unit is? Some people were hypothesizing that once developers have gotten used to the system, Nintendo could 'raise the limit' as it were on the power consumption of the Wii U if needed, essentially allowing the console to draw more power and push the hardware further if needed.

Thing is, from my view, that goes back into the whole 'overclocking' argument. Drawing extra power would make the whole thing damn near impossible to keep cool, when everything's all on one module. Maybe Nintendo have already factored for that though. They seem to have factored for a whole load else.

It runs only jus warm to the touch, so I can tell you that it runs pretty cool anyway and the cooling fan is constant and effective. Has intakes around the edges so it draws straight through and ejects the heat out the back.

I could tell you what rating the power supply is if it's on the power brick and I can read it without unscrewing anything (because I don't desire to be unscrewing power bricks right now), lemme dive down the back of my desk and find out....

...

-hitsheadmotherfucker-

...

It says 15V 5A output on the power brick and bugger all else.

Edit: Google tells me that unreliable sources claim it's rated for around 75W. So maybe there is potential for games to overclock the system or something crazy, but I HIGHLY doubt they'd do that, sounds complicated and risky.

It's likely that as the hardware matures developers will find ways to exploit the hardware more efficiently. Especially since Nintendo are sharing their programming tricks with third parties this time round rather than keeping them to themselves.

Edit edit: As for what you were saying to GrimHeaper above, Nintendo always has a plan it seems, nothing is done without a purpose and nothing is pointless. Whether they actually use some of the stuff is questionable though, the Gamecube is capable of 3D in the same style as the 3DS, for example, but it was never used and I have no idea why.

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Dude... No console can brag against the PC when it comes to the library. Nope. With at least two decades of back-catalogue, PC crushes any console in this regard.

elvor0:

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

*cough* yeah give google a go some time. It could and it will.

And I could have a Morrigan Aensland Sex Android, but I don't now and have no idea when I will. What the PC "could" do and what it "can" do are vastly different things. If you've got the patience or lack of interest in a console to wait 10+ years for emulation to be stable enough to play it and to have a computer good enough to handle it, be my guest. But, all that does is demonstrate that PC gaming is going to be a decade behind console gaming as far as the available library.

Oh, and you're engaging piracy when you're using roms and emulation because you didn't buy the console and games.

RT:

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Dude... No console can brag against the PC when it comes to the library. Nope. With at least two decades of back-catalogue, PC crushes any console in this regard.

I believe what you tried to say was "No, the PC can't play any of those above listed games unless you download emulators and roms, which are in most cases acts of piracy and/or copyright infringement."

20 years of backlog is nice, assuming you can get the stuff to work but volume =/= quality nor does it equal demand.

Sylveria:

RT:

Andrewtheeviscerator:
Can the PC play Super mario, smash bros, Zombie U, Monster Hunter, Rayman Legends, Pikmin, or Legend of Zelda; no? Then I'll stick with the Wii U thank you very much.

Dude... No console can brag against the PC when it comes to the library. Nope. With at least two decades of back-catalogue, PC crushes any console in this regard.

I believe what you tried to say was "No, the PC can't play any of those above listed games unless you download emulators and roms, which are in most cases acts of piracy and/or copyright infringement."

20 years of backlog is nice, assuming you can get the stuff to work but volume =/= quality nor does it equal demand.

What about PC's own exclusives? As for making it work, even if a game doesn't work on current hardware, if it's good, it's very likely to have fanpatches, sourceports and the like. Not mentioning HD fixes, bugfixes, graphic mods, mods in general, et cetera.

So ok some people believe WiiU has secret alien technology in it.
Let me tell you a secret: Time will pass and third party games will keep not showing up on WiiU.
Because it won't be able to run them. Remember my words.
You can't change the fact that its a weak machine,weaker than even the current generation xbox360.
Its graphics card might be as good as it might be,and unknown to most people,but from the moment its processor which is very known is so much less powerful than xbox360's, it will bottleneck the graphics card and the power will go wasted.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

Stavros Dimou:

ToastiestZombie:
PC+Wii U+PS3/4 master race reporting in. I don't have to worry about not getting anything except Halo and Gears of War. I have my PC for graphically awesome games and good multiplats, the PS3/4 for console-exclusive multiplats like Metal Gear Rising, and my Wii U for it's awesome exclusives.

Oh, and you seem to be not noticing the big-ass controller with a touch-screen that comes with the package. That adds about $50 onto the price of every Wii U made. You're also not taking into consideration the other absolute musts for PC gaming, a decent Keyboard and Mouse and a decent Monitor which all add 100 to the price if you shop around well and don't get a crappy 15 inch monitor. So a computer with the same specs as the Wii U would still cost about the same due to those added costs.

That's simply bullshit. The Wii U is actually more powerful than the two other consoles, and they're able to run FC3 at 720p with medium-ish settings. Go look at the 360's and the PS3's specs, they're shit compared to even mid-range computers today.

Explain me how an IBM POWER6 processor with 3 cores running at 1.6Ghz (WiiU) is more powerful than an IBM POWER 6 processor with 3 cores at 3.2Ghz (xbox360) ?

I actually posted a link to the original Neogaf thread a few posts above you, where they do exactly that. Kindly read it. It will explain things much better than I could, regarding the Wii U's memory management, optimisation, higher amounts of RAM, and the fact that the hardware is almost completely custom.

Slightly more on-topic: My other objection with the DF/Eurogamer piece is how it completely misrepresents how information about console specs is obtained.

Digital Foundry:

It took an extraordinary effort to get this far and you may be wondering quite why it took a reverse engineering specialist using ultra-magnification photography to get this information, when we already know the equivalent data for Durango and Orbis. The answer is fairly straightforward - leaks tend to derive from development kit and SDK documentation and, as we understand it, this crucial information simply wasn't available in Nintendo's papers, with developers essentially left to their own devices to figure out the performance level of the hardware.

This is bullshit. The reason we didn't learn anything about the Wii U's specs is because of NDAs. Anyone working in the games industry has to sign an NDA if they want to work on next-gen/unreleased hardware. This basically means, if you get caught leaking anything, you will get the living shit sued out of you and never work in the games industry again.

Those AMD workers who got caught leaking hardware documents for the Nextbox and PS4? AMD is currently suing them to oblivion.

We don't have any confirmed, nailed-down specs for the PS4 and Nextbox. All we have is a bunch of rumours and possible out-of-date documents, which may or may not have come from people breaking their NDAs. Just because a console doesn't get much in the way of specs leaked, that doesn't mean anything. Developers may simply think its not worth getting sued just to put another anonymous rumour up on the internet. Who knows? But acting as if this is some specific flaw of Nintendo's, when it's actually an industry wide practise, is just foolishness.

I've read many pages from the Neogaf thread you linked me too.
So it seems that this graphics card's computational power is somewhere between:

Worst Case Scenario: 176 GFLOPS
Absolute Best Case Scenario: 600 GFLOPS

Let me give you a perspective:

AMD HD 4650 launched at 2008 costing 60 euros: 386 GFLOPS (can run games like Oblivion,Counter Strike on high at 720p,30+ fps)
AMD HD 4850 launched at 2008 costing 150 euros: 1000 GFLOPS (can run dx10 games like Crysis,on high at 720p,30+
fps)
AMD HD 6850 launched at 2011 costing 150 euros: 1651 GFLOPS (can run dx11 games like Crysis 2,on very high at 1080p,30+fps)

So its most possibly between a card that would have costed 20E and 100E at 2008.(5 years ago)
And because technology advances,with the same money today you would get a much more powerful card that you would back then. As I said on an earlier post,it would be too hard to find comparable PC parts that have about the same power as the ones of WiiU,because so weak and old technology parts have stopped being produced for years,and even if you buy the cheapest part in a PC hardware store,it will still be more powerful than the corresponding part of WiiU.

Stavros Dimou:

I've read many pages from the Neogaf thread you linked me too.
So it seems that this graphics card's computational power is somewhere between:

Worst Case Scenario: 176 GFLOPS
Absolute Best Case Scenario: 600 GFLOPS

Let me give you a perspective:

AMD HD 4650 launched at 2008 costing 60 euros: 386 GFLOPS (can run games like Oblivion,Counter Strike on high at 720p,30+ fps)
AMD HD 4850 launched at 2008 costing 150 euros: 1000 GFLOPS (can run dx10 games like Crysis,on high at 720p,30+
fps)
AMD HD 6850 launched at 2011 costing 150 euros: 1651 GFLOPS (can run dx11 games like Crysis 2,on very high at 1080p,30+fps)

So its most possibly between a card that would have costed 20E and 100E at 2008.
And because technology advances,with the same money today you would get a much more powerful card that you would back then. As I said on an earlier post,it would be too hard to find comparable PC parts that have about the same power as the ones of WiiU,because so weak and old technology parts have stopped being produced for years,and even if you buy the cheapest part in a PC hardware store,it will still be more powerful than the corresponding part of WiiU.

First off, the 176 GFLOPS number is complete bull. That was thrown out by a random user with no basis, and was quickly shot down by everyone else. People are saying 356GFLOPS minimum, which is a step up from the current gen.

Second, if you'd actually read what people are saying, you'd realise that you can't put this all down to nothing but GFLOPS. GFLOPS is not the be all and end all of GPU design, and it tells you nothing about efficiency. Which, apparently, is what this thing is.

Thirdly, you keep ignoring the fact that this thing is custom. It is not an off-the-shelf part designed to run in a variety of different PC setups, with a variety of different OS configurations. This is a GPU that has been designed from the ground up to work specifically in conjunction with the CPU, memory and other hardware also specifically designed and customised. You can't just go "Well such-and-such GPU has so many GFLOPS and can do this" because such-and-such GPU doesn't have the same custom aspects and additions as the Wii U GPU.

Lastly, whatever you may think about the Wii U GPU's raw power, this thing wasn't cheap. This isn't some money saving move by Nintendo. They spent a lot of time and money working with AMD to produce a custom chip for their design needs. If it doesn't have the raw power of the DurangOrbis hardware, that only reinforces what Nintendo have been saying all along- that they don't want to play the tech-porn game. They want their games in HD, and that's what this GPU will provide.

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked