Well, I don't mind it so much if the gameplay itself is good. I didn't mind having to grind a bit in Dragon's Dogma to kill some of the higher level bosses because the combat mechanics are so BAWS. But in, say, Dragon Age, which has combat mechanics I just plain can't get into, I'll cheat if I can to skip grinding. If not, odds are I'll put down the game, I play games to have fun, not to punish myself.

Depends on the game but I typically like doing it.

I got so good at it, even when I'm trying to level up slowly in an mmo, I end up out leveling people who are trying to level fast and play the game more often than I do.

I prefer the journey instead of the goal. I enjoy the time spent getting to the max level much more than actually being max level.

I've never had to grind and RPG. I find there are people that do, however. For example, my friend spent several hours on Skyrim grinding to increase his smithing to a high enough level so that he could make the best armour. Me, being genius as I am, just played the game until I found it in a loot chest. My tactic probably took longer, so does it count as grind or not?

s69-5:
Most RPGs (FFXII included) don't require grind if all you're concentrating on is the main story. Being plain bad at the game notwithstanding. It's usually only if you try to do side quests or post game content that grind can become a factor.

I personally enjoy grind, so long as the gameplay is fun. If the gameplay is shit (DA:O on PS3 for example) then I won't bother.

Of course, I love me some NIS and they make the grindiest games of all.

I call bullshit.

Big. Fat. Bullshit.

Unless you're the luckiest man alive, FF XII is not a game you can just finish without any grinding. Finding good gear is just annoyingly random and the money to buy good gear is not all that plentiful - unless, you know, you grind for some good loot to sell. I mean, yeah, maybe if you use a walktrough to know where and when you can find the best gear (in which case, shame on you), but that just doesn't count.

That said, I play RPGs to get immersed in an amazing world with an intense story revolving around interesting characters. If a little bit of grinding allows me to wander around in said world a little longer and get a few bonuses while doing so, I don't mind. As long as it's only a little.

If I am required to skin and kill 5 wolves and bears for pelts and then kill X amount of monsters and then repeat it again then I will either skip that mission and do something that is more unique and worth the time, skill and effort.

Apart from that I find grinding annoying and tedious which is why I often try to avoid it most of the time because to me it's nothing special or unique.

Grinding, defined as repetitive combat (or other gameplay) scenarios that do not directly progress the plot of the game, doesn't have to be bad. The problem is, the types of RPGs that normally force you to grind also typically offer up the worst gameplay mechanics for repetitiveness.

For example, I find fighting dozens and dozens of similar pitched battles in Skyrim using the Warzones mod can be a lot of fun because: a) the layout of the battlefield is open, b) the trajectory/narrative of the battle can be sufficiently randomized because the AI is dynamic, c) the context makes sense. Participating in 30 vs 30 running skirmishes in first person view is exhilarating no matter how many times you do it.

I understand its purpose in MMOs so I can't judge that but if you reach a point in a single player RPG that requires grinding (even if you've been fighting just about every enemy until that point) then I think that's a sign of bad game design. You shouldn't HAVE to run in circles killing the same crap over and over and over again. I'll usually grit my teeth and bear through it but my own rating of the game will suffer. I play RPGS for the story which I would like to proceed with.

Shadow-Phoenix:
If I am required to skin and kill 5 wolves... then I will either skip that mission and do something that is more unique and worth the time, skill and effort.

In that order?? =P Well damn, I'd call that unique! I don't know of many games that ask you to do that!

Rack:

Playing the item world in Disgaea wasn't grinding because I was enjoying myself and stopped the moment I wasn't. Drawing endless spells in FF8 to get to the end of the game was grinding.

Easiest way to cut it out in my book is to make it optional, offer only tangential awards and people will either play or not,

Do you mean like transforming cards or turning item drops into spells negating the need to draw from monsters? Ther are plenty of options in FF8 to cut down on grind...

Guess that harkens back to my original post: "Being bad at the game notwithstanding".

AgentLampshade:
Grinding early on isn't so bad, but when you get to later levels that require 44672 experience points to level up and the best you can get per enemy is something like 1042, then that's a chore. A painstakingly long, pointless chore.

As such, I've never levelled higher than 41 in Dragon Quest VIII.

Metal King Slimes + Lightning Thrust {50% chance for crit or nothing}= easy OHKO
Metal King Slimes + Hatchet Man (Executioner) {50% chance for crit or nothing}= easy OHKO
Drops XP: 30010

(Also, liquid metal slime drops 10,050XP)

mohit9206:
Do you like grinding in rpg's or do you not ? does grinding too much in order to level up and match your enemies frustrate you and you lose your interest in the game or does it satisfy you to grind a lot and finally beating that enemy or boss you could not have beat earlier.
for me i get really bored and frustrated if have to grind a lot to complete certain quests and to beat certain enemies. i like my game to flow along nicely and not distract me too much from the main story. so if have to grind a lot i will lose the interest in the story and eventually stop playing recent example being FF12.
so do you prefer to grind a lot because it gives you satisfaction or do you prefer rpg's where you dont have to grind too much and just focus on the main story ?

How did you have a grind problem in 12? you never need to grind to be powerful enough to fight the main bosses (doing so usually makes you overpowered compared to them). The only reasons I can think is that you tried to get to max level, which is not and should never be required, or you were hunting for the specific things that only come as a result of grinding, which, admittedly, can be annoying.

depends on the game and what I'm after

cause I'll grind any DMC game with a Bloody Place down to a nub for red orbs

but start getting into MMOs I'll need to know drop rates before I start going after ANYTHING, and very quickly becomes a case of 'is it easier to grind for the drop, or gold to buy it off the market?'

Arqus_Zed:

I call bullshit.

Big. Fat. Bullshit.

Unless you're the luckiest man alive, FF XII is not a game you can just finish without any grinding. Finding good gear is just annoyingly random and the money to buy good gear is not all that plentiful - unless, you know, you grind for some good loot to sell. I mean, yeah, maybe if you use a walktrough to know where and when you can find the best gear (in which case, shame on you), but that just doesn't count.

That said, I play RPGs to get immersed in an amazing world with an intense story revolving around interesting characters. If a little bit of grinding allows me to wander around in said world a little longer and get a few bonuses while doing so, I don't mind. As long as it's only a little.

I never had to 'grind' in FFXII to beat the game. But while I'm not a fan of spending 200 hours maxing everything out I play through the game at my own pace exploring every nook & cranny and taking the odd break from the main story to do a few hunts along the way.

Thoroughness and skill are two factors in play here. For thoroughness take a game like Super Mario RPG or the PS versions of the Lunar games where there's no random encounters but monsters appear onscreen and you can choose to fight them or skip them. Usually the games are setup so that if you take your time to clear each screen you can coast through the game without much difficulty. Start skipping fights on the other hand and at some point you're going to run into a wall, either in the form of a boss you can't beat or new equipment you can't afford.

For skill, Dragon Quest VIII is a good example. There are a few different options for advancement here, and I never tested them all out or read FAQ's or anything but I'm sure not all are equal. Build a good party and use sound strategy and while this is Dragon Quest so it's still challenging you should be able to make it through without having to stop and grind. I know I never had to, I built up a party that maybe killed things a little slower but had sustainable HP and MP.

So generally with any JRPG do things well and have patience and good strategy and you shouldn't need to grind. Skimp in an area and at some point you'll probably need to grind out a few extra levels to make it through at a few points in the game.

I hate it before I do it. When I'm fighting enemies that are too tough and I realise I have to go back and grind, I'll be pissed. But while I'm doing it I find it oddly relaxing and I don't wanna stop.

For the OP topic though I think it's worth point out that there's a few different flavours to grinding in JRPG's. WoW and all the other MMORPG's out there have created kind of a singular image to it.

First would be the classic Dragon Quest formula. It's not so much that the game is about grinding, but it's actually more of a resource management. The key is there are no save zones or checkpoints, as you push ahead in the game the enemies push back and if you die you may face a significant setback. The enemies don't so much dominate or one hit kill you, but each battle slowly chip away at your HP/MP and you're only allowed to carry a limited amount of healing items. That's why I call it resource management, as you push ahead in the dungeon you always have to keep an eye on whether you have enough to keep going or do you play it safe and back out before you die. In addition to the Dragon Age series Phantasy Star 2 is probably the best classic example of this, while the Persona series is a good modern one. Many will play these in a grind fest manner however getting themselves to a point where the party is strong enough to breeze through the dungeon/boss without much challenge or risk.

Another one is the Final Fantasy method. Usually you can get through the main portion of the game without any problem, but starting with FFVI at or near the end of the game they provide content that lets you max out your parties power allowing you to breeze through the final dungeon & boss. Whether it's fighting in the dinosaur forest in FFVI to get characters to level 99 or racing & breeding for a black chocobo's in FFVII, this is certainly grinding but it lets you play the game a little longer if you want it and is completely optional otherwise.

MMORPG's like WoW tend to take the FF method but apply it to the entire game. A good way to keep people paying those subscription fee's.

Grinding is usually not a problem for me because I'll purposefully engage enemies at every turn and if the game is developed well that will usually do it.

I don't find the act of grinding though to be especially fun because it slows down the pace of the game and the story gets stale. With that said if I have a desire to level up through grinding I usually take on side quests and instead of flying or sailing or tele-porting to the location of the side quest, I'll have my character(s) walk through an over world to get there and I'll just challenge every enemy along the way. At least that way I have a an objective in mind and the grinding is just within the context of that goal.

If I enjoy the gameplay grinding is passable. If the level-up/upgrade system is good though, I might go out of my way to grind because I want such-and-such ability. If a game lacks these things though, then it's annoying.

Tom_green_day:
I've never had to grind and RPG. I find there are people that do, however. For example, my friend spent several hours on Skyrim grinding to increase his smithing to a high enough level so that he could make the best armour. Me, being genius as I am, just played the game until I found it in a loot chest. My tactic probably took longer, so does it count as grind or not?

there is probably an urban legend of an insane blacksmith crafting a mountain of iron daggers in skyrim. it definitely fits the bill of grinding your skill.

but grinding depends on how you approach it and player perception too. if its purely to raise your skill its grinding, if you enjoy making things not so much

Well, I don't really like grinding.
Not for levels.
However, I don't mind slaying hordes of enemies if there's a story attached.
And that story will actually be visible while slaying them.
Like for example, you're trying to take over a fortress.

My main problem with grinding isn't doing it, no I love it! My problem is I do it so much I end up ruining the difficulty in the game.

FF12 in particular, you could get easily to where you would kill bosses in a few seconds with basic attacks if you did all the hunts as soon as possible.

FF9 & Grandia are other ones where there are points in the game where you can farm and completely break the game.

I used to not mind grinding in RPGs but after playing Aion and almost getting to the level cap something in me broke and i lost the patience for it and havent really fully gotten my grind patience back since.

Cry Wolf:

EDIT: Other mindless filler content that breaks the flow of the game also is a deal breaker. Fore xample; in the first Infamous game there was a level where you had to defend a train as it moved from 'A' to 'B'. Every so often the train would stop and you'd have to get off the train, and fire at panels repeatedly to get the train moving again.

I stopped playing right after. The second game was pretty sweet though.

that part was the nadier of the game for me too, but it did get better after that, if you still have it, give it another shot, it does get better.

OP: I don't like grinding that much, though it depends on the game, I didn't mind the magic drawing in FF8 because you get some awesome magic and can kick ass early and not have to level or weapon grind that much. In games like Diablo, it's kinda necessary to grind to an extent, i had a lot of trouble beating Rakanishu in the second one (that freaken lightning AoE thing when he takes damage, i hated that) but RPGs where the main bosses are so stupidly overpowered and you can't continue unless you've ground yourself stupid (Barthandelus i'm looking at you). So, it's really dependant on the game, the mechanics and how much fun i'm having.

I`m normally no rpg player. The first game that got me into grinding was Diablo. After that there was nothing for a long time and the second game is Dragon`s Dogma. It`s a bit like the old Diablo fever- i try to collect armor or special weapons (pretty much done with it now) and try to get them dragon forged. I do the same thing over and over. Normally i would say i hate grinding but there are still these rare exceptions. My final answer would be that it depends on how hard a game manages to grap you.

I'm a fan of getting stats so I can enjoy some basic grinding. I do like RPG's like Ni No Kuni though which at about 40 hours in hasn't made me grind a single enemy randomly.

Grinding is just a way of artificially extending playtime without adding any new content for the game, I don't mind it but it's far from being a positive in a game.

To me, Grinding is another term used to describe padding or fluff. The only reason its there is because without it, the game wouldnt last as long as its apparently needs to. It usually is incredibly tedious, to the point that its nothing but a choir. This is one of the main reasons I dont care for MMOs much. There is about 20% content that fun and unique, balanced out by 80% grinding to reach said content. ITs the main reason I quite playing Wow after a few months.

I don't mind grinding if it's entertaining or or gives me a separate goal to attain while doing it. In Disgaea I only really dread grinding out the first few levels when I create a character, but the abilities kept me entertained for the most part. Otherwise if I can use the spare loot I get from grinding to make more stuff (KH2 is the first to come to mind), then I usually go back to previous areas to collect all the loot and don't mind it.

Depends on the amount and type of grinding. EVE grinding is rather fun, but (old) wow grinding was not.

well i really don't like very much grinding. it should be fun. but the pvp is most important thing if it is online

When grinding is made to be fun then I like grinding.Allow me to elaborate. When there is an elaborate well written sidequest that doesn't have repeating one dungeon over and over and there are multiple ways to dispatch enemies, it's not so bad Kingdom hearts II one and two had very little grinding in it and the variety of techniques you could use to dispatch an enemy from beating the crap out of them with your sword to juggling them to stunning them and beating them with their own weapon, that was brilliant.

I donīt think you can make the kind of RPG where you want to keep on playing without the kind of gotta catch em all mechanic that grinding is. Collecting stuff is something we sectrely enjoy and the fact that itīs either tedious or hard makes the reward sweeter. I donīt perticulary `likeī grinding but I wouldnīt want to have a WoW (or similar rpg) without it because it would go stale much quicker. It's basically the argument that you won't enjoy something that was just handed to you as much as something you had to work and save for. I'd prefer if they try to keep inovating grinding to make it itself a bit more diverse but I would never want to see it gone, or at least I don't see how without loosing what it provides.

Sam's sister here.

I just started FFXII again, because I love grinding. I love choosing what path I take my characters down with their skills. I don't know why I like grinding, I just always have.

Maybe because Sam and I have always played games together. We don't play alone except to grind. Whenever only one of us was home the other would grind and do side quests and crafting or whatever, so when we were both home and ready to play we could focus on the story.

Like right now I'm not working, so we always make sure to stop at a point in the story where I can go and grind while she's at work. That's what I've been doing on and off all day (when I wasn't cleaning the house top to bottom, running errands and doing the weekly baking/etc and other chores since I'm the "housewife" and I have to put 8 hours of work in too). I just find it satisfying, and I never consider a game completed until we've beaten every optional boss and gotten every (useful) secret treasure and seen every side story.

I don't mind grinding when it isn't just a dull mindless task. Grinding in Dark Souls is alright, because you're still constantly engaged and thinking about what you're doing lest you get killed.

In games like WoW I generally treat level grinding as an exercise in learning my class/specialisation and will generally opt to level up by doing dungeons constantly in order to become good in a PVE setting before I reach the level cap. So I don't mind that either. But resource grinding bores the hell out of me. Just farming for drops is a huge time drain with minimal meaningful input. Dull. As.

I dont really mind it, its just something I have come to associate rpg's with, just like chewing and food. I dont really like or dislike it, its just something I do.