Knights of the Old Republic 1 or Knights of the Old Republic 2?
KotoR!
35.1% (87)
35.1% (87)
KotoR 2
64.9% (161)
64.9% (161)
Want to vote? Register now or Sign Up with Facebook
Poll: KotoR vs KotoR 2 (Mods allowed!)

 Pages PREV 1 2 3
 

Phuctifyno:
The rushed ending of KOTOR2 also left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. Lastly, the original was more eye-opening and impressive because it came first, which is a stupid bias, but one I have nonetheless.

Even still, KOTOR2 was great, and all the praise I'm seeing for it here has me wanting to play it again. Maybe I could still change my mind.

If you do decide to try it again, I highly recommend grabbing it for the PC if you don't have it already so you can play with the Restored Content Mod. Otherwise, you're absolutely right. The original ending is... well... Jaeke said it best.

Jaeke:
And also remembering endings (or lack thereof) :P

The mod also makes a lot of tweaks and actually fills in story gaps, such as putting back the original plan for the Dantooine Enclave sublevel, dealing with the HK-50 issue and giving the game a proper ending.

Just a suggestion.

I look back and see the world when KOTOR 1 was released. It's 2003, you've just come off the second letdown in the Prequels, and here you have this new Star Wars game telling a traditional Star Wars story, and telling it WELL. It's got its own Empire Strikes Back plot twist, and it manages to blow Lucas's most recent movies out of the water in terms of coherency and dedication to the saga.

I played them on Xbox, so I didn't have the luxury of mods.

My take is that the original is WAY better and I was floored when I submitted my answer and saw 2 winning. KotOR2 had so much filler dialogue. I have never heard so many words spoken that didn't say anything at all. I wonder who would win if the poll did not include mods.......

I think they're two completely different animals.

Note: This isn't taking mods into account, nor should it. Game development is about your allotment of resources and Obsidian's repeated floundering shows incompetent management and unrealistic goals. Shipping an unfinished product is their own fault. And releasing the "finished" version later does not change that.

Now then, let's begin.

KotOR 1 was an epic. It was everything that a Star Wars game really should be. It had epic fights, exotic locations, love, an epic story, great characters and a dastardly villain.

It was also elegant in design and in execution.

KotOR 2 was the dark chapter. Rather than exquisite locations, it simply focuses on smaller scale locations but with a greater attention to detail. The combat system wasn't as well designed and it seemed to just wander from place to place in search of answers in a dying republic. But the villains were great in an anti-epic way. All of them with serving to deconstruct something about the force. It was more well written and the characters were more interesting. But I can see why some people like KotOR 1 more.

Although I love both, I have to give my personal vote to KotOR 2. Simply because I just got more out of its dark setting. But that doesn't mean I don't absolutely love KoTOR 1.

herbortamus:
I played them on Xbox, so I didn't have the luxury of mods.

My take is that the original is WAY better and I was floored when I submitted my answer and saw 2 winning. KotOR2 had so much filler dialogue. I have never heard so many words spoken that didn't say anything at all. I wonder who would win if the poll did not include mods.......

I imagine it would be much closer but KOTOR 2 would still be in a slight lead, the storytelling and characters in 2 are just so much better than the first (I love the first game too and played through it several times, but i have to admit, most of the character motivations, particularly your companions don't make much sense)And i have a feeling that most people will take a slightly broken game with an amazing story over one with a story that is nowhere near as deep.

*edit
Also im not sure what you mean by filler? i found that pretty much all the dialogue in kotor 2 had some form of purpose in regards to the story etc.

People complaining about the combat in both games have clearly never played a game of d20 based DnD or its ilk. KotoR is just Star Wars d20 in video game form, and that appealed to me greatly. Some of it was simplified, but it kept a lot of the mechanics from the tabletop games intact.

Also, I'll take 2 over 1 any day. The ending was broken due to a rushed schedule, but the characters and story were much more interesting than most of the cast in 1.

Nigh Invulnerable:
People complaining about the combat in both games have clearly never played a game of d20 based DnD or its ilk. KotoR is just Star Wars d20 in video game form, and that appealed to me greatly. Some of it was simplified, but it kept a lot of the mechanics from the tabletop games intact.

Also, I'll take 2 over 1 any day. The ending was broken due to a rushed schedule, but the characters and story were much more interesting than most of the cast in 1.

I agree, I found the combat incredibly appealing, and not just in the d20 system, the way auto attacks work (with the actual strikes and parries etc during the fight) is incredible and i honestly can't believe no other rpg uses it! It looks so much better than rpgs where people take swings at each other and occasionally look like they are actually parrying

herbortamus:
I played them on Xbox, so I didn't have the luxury of mods.

My take is that the original is WAY better and I was floored when I submitted my answer and saw 2 winning. KotOR2 had so much filler dialogue. I have never heard so many words spoken that didn't say anything at all. I wonder who would win if the poll did not include mods.......

There was another one of these threads a while back that didn't specify mods allowed and the ratio was exactly the same in 2's favour. (And it's not like the mods changed the existing dialogue)

I'm really surprised you found KotoR 1 dialogue to be better. I mean look at that opening dialogue
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6c9FH-1rUY#t=1m13s

'We've been ambushed by a sith battle fleet. The Endar Spire is under attack.'

This is exposition. I am telling you what is happening. ~It's not a good first line

That's awful bland stuff, that doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense. The PC has been walking around and serving on that ship for a period of time now and he doesn't know what the ship is called? They couldn't think of any other way to get in exposition (and unneeded exposition) than 'What is the Endor Spire?' and thats the very first line of PC dialogue.

Or check out this remarkable display of human emotion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MO1xN7csfw

'Damn it women, if you keep hounding me, I'm going to put you on my knee and teach you a lesson'
~But in all honesty thats at least exciting. Most of his romance is the most awfully cliche stuff possible. "I'm a proud man... I don#t admit things like this easily." Yada yada yada Romance sub plot #4 or whatever.

To compare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfGPT0SaCrI#t=2m15s
'Find what you're looking for amongst the dead?'

Reven:

Nigh Invulnerable:
People complaining about the combat in both games have clearly never played a game of d20 based DnD or its ilk. KotoR is just Star Wars d20 in video game form, and that appealed to me greatly. Some of it was simplified, but it kept a lot of the mechanics from the tabletop games intact.

Also, I'll take 2 over 1 any day. The ending was broken due to a rushed schedule, but the characters and story were much more interesting than most of the cast in 1.

I agree, I found the combat incredibly appealing, and not just in the d20 system, the way auto attacks work (with the actual strikes and parries etc during the fight) is incredible and i honestly can't believe no other rpg uses it! It looks so much better than rpgs where people take swings at each other and occasionally look like they are actually parrying

I too enjoyed the dynamic actions of the characters during the fights. None of this Final Fantasy style dancing in place til it's their turn/the ATB gauge filled up and then making a single strike or spellcasting. Characters ducking and weaving, parrying, etc. all made things look neat.

Soviet Heavy:
KOTOR 2. Specifically, for this, which isn't even declared in the game, but left intentionally ambiguous:

If that doesn't blow your mind...

This bit and the side arc of the torture droid GoTO are some of the best I've seen in any game.

I really liked Kreia. It is something deeply personal to me. I have lived my life thus far among the presence of several strong women. I'd say my life has been influenced by them in more ways than it has by other men.

Kreia is by far the best most insightful master of ANY star wars game or movie or book. She made me deconstruct light and dark and taught me lessons that I would bring to bear in college and religion classes later in my life. The idea that you do yourself a disservice by chaining your mind to one dogma and refusing to look at the other side. It is knowledge you should seek and not care what petty trifles and labels come with seeking out such things.

I even got a little misty eyed at the end when she fell. So many people disliked her, but I could never bring myself to hate her.

Captcha: Deep Waters. Yes I suppose they are.

The thing that pissed me off about KOTOR2 is that they nonchalantly dismiss the epicness of the first game within the first couple minutes. It always left a bad taste in my mouth.

Baldr:
The thing that pissed me off about KOTOR2 is that they nonchalantly dismiss the epicness of the first game within the first couple minutes. It always left a bad taste in my mouth.

while im not so much disagreeing with you, could you elaborate?

For me Kotor, loved Revan and it was a better way to introduce me to me to star wars again, was a big fan as a little kid and kind of fell out of it then Kotor happened. But I find it odd so many people are saying Kotor 2 is better becuase of gameplay, story and graphics...that is how a sequel works right, it is meant to be an improvement? Besides I see Kotor as the story setter for Kotor 2, kind of like new hope being the story setter to empire.

I'll always take brilliant but flawed over competent but average.

Kotor2 every time. The only problem I have with it is the same one I had with Kotor...the first planet drags...

After trying to go through these games a second time I realized they're very hard for me to not call a pile of hot garbage.

UnusualStranger:

On the flipside, Canderous in Kotor1 holds his honor in high regard as you come to learn, and when someone challenges it he demands to go fight. Carth is all pissed off and whiny a lot of the time because of a dead family and betrayed by friends who helped kill them. Life dealt him a bad hand. Mission (the bubbly blue girl) is all happy go lucky because she's a born and raised crook, meaning that as a kid survival IS her fun time. As you talk to these three characters, you learn that Canderous has seen some things that you can only dream of at this point, Carth has gone through several of his own hells and betrayals, and Mission has been street living and stealing with a horrid family for as long as she has been alive. These are deep stories that you run into, that I just didn't really see at all in Kotor 2.

You can say that the characters in KOTOR 1 had "deep" stories because of their "angst" or whatever. But they are all personal backstories, and that's all they are. What do they really add to the main plot? How are any of the characters besides Carth, Bastila, and Canderous related to the whole Jedi Civil War/Mandalorian War ???

They're not. None of them are related nor do they give you their own opinions on anything regarding the actual storyline. You have Mission, Juhani, Jolee all talking about themselves, but never anything related to the story. They are character archetypes, characters you've seen in countless other RPGs, they are just there for the sake of having a new character and to fill a character archetype.

See in the sequel guys like G0T0, Handmaiden, Visas, heck even T3 would give you information about things you actually had to know regarding the main plot, you talk to them and you will gain knowledge of the story, the republic, the Sith, they tell you stuff that are related to the ACTUAL story.

After finishing both games I realized how ridiculously unimportant your party members are in KOTOR 1. I mean a lot of them are not really related to the story at all, they are just there to fill an archetype. The second game actually had party members who mattered and is related to the story, meaning you have to talk to your party members to get the full storyline/plot, or else things won't make sense.

Here are the characters in KOTOR 1:

Juhani - Not related to the story at all except for her little Taris backstory, but why is she even there, to fill the archetype of the badass alien chick I guess.

HK-47 - Not really important except for the sand people translation. Other than that he's not very related to the plot, isn't that important but has funny "meatbag" lines.

T3 - Completely useless and not related to the story after Taris. Fills the "R2-D2" role I guess.

Jolee - Pretty much not related to the story, doesn't really care about the Republic or anything, preserves animals, he's the "old cranky Jedi character" in the game.

Zalbarr - Just barely any relation to the story except for his one required side-plot, plus he has NO, I mean NO opinion on anything. He was the strong wookie archetype I guess.

Mission - Fills the happy sidekick archtype character, but really has absolutely nothing to do with the main plot.

So the only characters that give you any information on the history or the backstory is Canderous, Bastila and Carth, they are the only ones who drive the story and tells you stuff about the past and the Mandalorian Wars and Malak.

Now here are the KOTOR 2 characters:

Bao-Dur - This guy is the reason Malachor V blew up, he was your comrade during the Mandalorian Wars, so he follows you now to put an end to things.

Atton - Also served in the Mandalorian War, also served under the Republic and the Sith, although he didn't talk about it too much he still has relation to the plot, and his encounter with Sion towards the end makes more sense. I think he even mentioned fighting on Dxun when you land there.

Kreia- The sole reason why this whole KOTOR 2 exists. She is the plot.

Hk-47 - No longer just a droid with funny "Meatbag" one-liners, in this game he serves as the voice of Revan. Since Revan couldn't be in the game, HK-47 speaks for him in a way, if you unlock his dialogue, he has tons of information regarding Revan, his philosophies, his tatics, the Republic, the Sith, I thought he was the best and biggest improvement in the writing department from KOTOR 1 to KOTOR 2.

G0T0 - He is one of the main reasons why the Republic has gone to hell in a handbasket, it's because of this guy. But you have to unlock his dialogue to know that though, and it's pretty hard to gain influence with him. Talking to him alone will solve at least 2 or 3 plot holes in the game (which you thought were plot holes but really isn't).

Hanharr - If you go LS he would be manipulated by Kreia. DS path, he has little to do with the main plot, but still the best Wookie ever in any SW stories.

Handmaiden - She is the bodyguard of your former master, and she will tell you stuff regarding your former master, plus the secret Jedi Academy.....and also important info on another member in your party.

Visas - She has also been affected by the Mandalorian War, in a sense she survived her own war, and now she follows you.

Disciple - Works for the Republic, and follows you to get things back in order.

T3 - Unlike the first KOTOR, he saves your butt a million times, and plus he is information overload. You want to find out what happened to the Ebon Hawk, or Revan, then talk to him as much as you can. He will tell you tons of stuff.

Mandalore - The only character who I thought was a bit unnecessary, but he obviously fought in the Mandalorian Wars, had tons of history with Revan, and tells you where Revan has disappeared to.

Mira - The only party member who probably doesn't have to do with the main story.

So in KOTOR 2, only Mira had very little to do with the story.

Tragedy's Rebellion:

I felt that Nihlus and Sion were *dislodged* from the whole narrative, like they were operating on a different plane of existence and had no impact whatsoever on the story. The sith assassins could easily have made their move without them and the reason for Nihlus and Sion to be there is to unseat Kreia. After that they felt like a chain on the story.

Sion's role is much more improved if you play a female Exile, there's actually a reason he's chasing you. If you're a male Exile, then yeah he's just a psycho dude.

As for Nihilus, I didn't really understand his role in the story either. Like....why is a boss in the story? I know he's the lone survivor of the Malachor V thing, but still...if they made him into an NPC which you can interact with that would be so much better. Or maybe this just went over my head.

In my opinion, Kotor 2 is just better.

Influence is one of the best things, it gives you the option to make characters jedi. It simply allows you to make another
use the force, kotor doesnt do this.
Storyline; You may disagree, but i think kotor 2 has a very good storyline, and almost the same main objective as the first one; Go to several different planets looking for something.
The ending is good for me, because throughout the game you hear about Malachor V, and then at the end, you go there, i just like that :P .
Kreia's morality may be leaning towards the darkside, although she is supposedly neutral, however, what can you really expect from the one who is the Lord of the sith...
There are many reasons for me, and it may seem strange, but i much prefer HK-47 in kotor 2, which leads me on to the next reason, restored content.

The game would undoubtedly be better with this content in it, however due to a lack of time, they are not, but with mods you can unlock great things, such as the HK-50 factory, M4-78 and many, many new cutscenes, some of the best cutscenes are at Malachor V, Atton's Death, Disciples Death, Handmaiden asks to come with the Exile, the party VS Traya. HK-47 Vs GO-TO, so (with mods) kotor 2 is best!!

The best thing is, ive played it through 7 times, and i still havent done it all :P

Also, what some of you don't know is that Kreia (Traya) is the master of Nihilus and Sion, which is why they are in the game, i hope this clears it up.

Kotor 1 without a doubt. The storyline was so much better, I like Kotor 2 but I LOVE Kotor 1. One of the reasons why I got an Xbox last gen. Sure Kotor 2 let's you start out as a Jedi, but the storyline wasn't as engaging. Also the ending is bad, Kotor 1 had great characters and everything, it's as close to RPG perfection as you can get.

I have never played a KoToR game. Heard plenty of good things though.
My old roommate was pretty obsessed with them.

Hmm. Maybe I should pick up a copy.

KOTOR 2 was one of those "brilliant but flawed" games, where it's fantastic if you can overlook the bugs, the obviously rushed ending, and the dummied-out quest chains.

KOTOR 1 is a classic Star Wars story competently told by Bioware, but lacking the complexity and ambition of the sequel. It's enjoyable but not outstanding.

If I had to pick one I'd pick KOTOR 2, primarily because;

1. I liked Kreia as a subversion of the wise mentor cliche often used in Star Wars, and the way the game avoided the Bioware-standard "puppy-kicking versus puppy-charity" moral dilemmas.
2. I liked how the protagonist's backstory was slowly filled in as the game progressed, with a sense of mystery over what great crime happened at Malachor and the ability of the player to actually determine what happened in the backstory by the conversations they had in the present.
3. The ability to determine the alignment of your party members by your own actions towards them was really something special. Later Bioware games have just dumped alignments entirely or reinterpreted them like in Mass Effect, but Obsidian instead chose to make the alignment of your party malleable in a believable fashion - none of them were so fully good that they could avoid being made evil, or vice versa.

KotoR 2 is garbage.

I'm sorry, but there it is. The game is a -mess-. There is -one- likeable new character, Mira. I'll throw G0-T0 in there too, although I'm not a fan. But the rest of your crew fits into three camps:

A: Loathsome - Kreia, Hanharr, slight Atton.

B: Boring. - Bao-Dur, Visas, Handmaiden, Disciple, Hanharr, Atton.

C: From the original KotoR. Mandalore, T3, and HK-47.

There's some overlap on A and B.

The game was released unfinished. BUP BUP BUP. I don't want to hear about how that isn't Obsidian's fault, this isn't about Obsidian, this is the game. Partial credit not awarded for when fans have to clean it up for you. The ending is a mess. The opening act of Peragus/Telos takes for fucking ever and is boring as hell. The plot is basically nonexistent, and essentially leads up to a series of climaxes. It's a game with strong potential and no payoff.

Throws up an interesting question I guess - does a character have to be likeable to be good?

I definitely agree that a number of the characters in the game have loathsome qualities - though I don't think any of them (even Hanharr) could be described as purely loathsome, they're all a bit more multifaceted than that. I think it's a triumph on the writers' part that they managed to include characters that get such a strong reaction, mileage on that obviously varies though.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here