Do you think The Witcher series is "mature?"

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Vegosiux:
Well, there's this deal, "mature" and "rated M" are not the same thing. As far as Witcher goes, yeah, it's dark, it doesn't sugarcoat stuff, but at times it just seems as if it's trying too hard to be "mature" and comes across as pretentious. Let's just say that considering my taste in gaming, by all criteira, I should have liked the Witcher series, but I just couldn't enjoy the games.

I'm with you on this Vego...

I might've enjoyed the first game, if I didn't have the same problem as Yahtzee...

Azahul:

JoesshittyOs:
I recently bought the Witcher 2, and I have to say... I wouldn't call it a mature game.

I kinda set it down because it really wasn't holding my attention and was terribly written. Whoever wrote some of the dialogue options I feel really has never actually had a conversation with a woman before. It was a tad bit misogynistic.

Misogynistic? It's a game with strong women, with weak women, with honourable women (heck, the only truly "good" character I met in the course of my first playthrough was a woman), with despicable villainesses, and men of every stripe as well. It is, of course, set in a society that is decidedly misogynistic, but that doesn't mean the game itself is and the way it portrays the wide range of different female characters was pretty novel, frankly, compared to just about any other game on the market.

People just love to throw around the "M" word these days for the smallest reasons. I agree with you completely, I have yet to finish the game, but it comes across to me as more mature then most. Dragon Age had a far less mature feeling to it, not one I feel I can explain, not to say it wasn't fun, but its tone wasn't as dark considering the subject matter.

The Witcher has some more mature themes going on, sure. But it's not intellectually mature. It's simply more gritty than your usual fantasy RPG and morality system is better than in most games because it asks you to decide based on what you believe.
I think the only really intellectually mature RPG of this generation is Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Meh, worrying about whether or not something is "mature" is incredibly childish. The way I see it you either like something or you don't, everything else is moot.

endtherapture:
Been lurking on the Dragon Age Bioware forums today and come across an incredible hatred of The Witcher 2:

Also, calling Witcher series "mature" is like calling XBox Live a civilized discussion platform.

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

A lot of people appear to have this problem with TW series. Are they just Dragon Age fanboys or is it a legitimate argument?

Probably Fan boys. Both the Witcher and Dragon Age deal with very mature themes. The Witcher portrays life in that kind of world as being dirty, difficult and brutal. Misogyny and racism are big things in the game. Dragon Age does most of the same things.

The thing I could say about Dragon Age is that the romances and sexual encounters come off as forced. They're putting them in because it's expected. In the Witcher, at least in the second game, the only real sexual encounter/relationship Geralt has is with Triss. It's clear that they both deeply care for each other but at the same time they don't expect either to stay faithful due to the large amount of danger they put themselves in on a daily basis, which you can play out by choice by paying woman at brothels.

You could argue in the first Witcher game that all the sexual encounters Geralt have are related to his loss of memory or the setting itself. I'm not confident enough to argue that though.

On thing I could say that the Witcher series does that Dragon Age ultimately fails at is the amount of grey are decisions you're given. The fact that you could be doing something you believe to be the right thing, only to have it backfire and either screw you, get innocent people killed, or screw someone close to you. This, in my opinion, is very mature. It's just like in real life. Not every choice you make has an inherent good or bad outcome to it, because there are times that you simply can't know.

My example hopefully shows that even with good intentions, you don't always get the happy ending.

Dragon Age, and Bioware games in general, fail in this regard. The decision making in Bioware games are almost always binary, black and white. Some of their older games were better, like the KOTOR series, but recently not so much.

There are things that The Witcher series does well while there are other things it doesn't. The exact same goes for Dragon Age (Assuming we're not talking about DA2, in which case it does a lot of things bad.).

sex and promiscuity are undercurrents for the series and are apart of geralt as a character. its never explored in depth but its there as a sort of part of who he is. A man so removed from society takes what few pleasures and outlets that society will allow him. Even the women who sleep with him willingly as opposed to just for there job frequently have there reputation in question by mere association. People forget all this in an attempt to downplay the witcher series for whatever reason.

to me cd projeckt red is what bioware tries and hopes to be and what bioware used to be prior to now. from the story to the gameplay I play a cdprojeckt game and feel the way I used to when i picked up the first kotor. I play a good ass game from a company that cares plain and simple. Dragon age and mass effect? well I can understand why a fan of those games would resent witcher as its the antithesis of what they have.

also everything waagpowa just said.:)

I found it to be far more mature than the vast majority of games. It deals with issues such as racism, depicts warfare in a more realistic manner (ie with the raping and pillaging), and just generally treats sex in a more naturalistic manner. I am assuming the "it's not REALLY mature" attitude stems from American prudishness regarding sex in general.

Waaghpowa:

endtherapture:
Been lurking on the Dragon Age Bioware forums today and come across an incredible hatred of The Witcher 2:

Also, calling Witcher series "mature" is like calling XBox Live a civilized discussion platform.

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

A lot of people appear to have this problem with TW series. Are they just Dragon Age fanboys or is it a legitimate argument?

Probably Fan boys. Both the Witcher and Dragon Age deal with very mature themes. The Witcher portrays life in that kind of world as being dirty, difficult and brutal. Misogyny and racism are big things in the game. Dragon Age does most of the same things.

The thing I could say about Dragon Age is that the romances and sexual encounters come off as forced. They're putting them in because it's expected. In the Witcher, at least in the second game, the only real sexual encounter/relationship Geralt has is with Triss. It's clear that they both deeply care for each other but at the same time they don't expect either to stay faithful due to the large amount of danger they put themselves in on a daily basis, which you can play out by choice by paying woman at brothels.

You could argue in the first Witcher game that all the sexual encounters Geralt have are related to his loss of memory or the setting itself. I'm not confident enough to argue that though.

On thing I could say that the Witcher series does that Dragon Age ultimately fails at is the amount of grey are decisions you're given. The fact that you could be doing something you believe to be the right thing, only to have it backfire and either screw you, get innocent people killed, or screw someone close to you. This, in my opinion, is very mature. It's just like in real life. Not every choice you make has an inherent good or bad outcome to it, because there are times that you simply can't know.

My example hopefully shows that even with good intentions, you don't always get the happy ending.

Dragon Age, and Bioware games in general, fail in this regard. The decision making in Bioware games are almost always binary, black and white. Some of their older games were better, like the KOTOR series, but recently not so much.

There are things that The Witcher series does well while there are other things it doesn't. The exact same goes for Dragon Age (Assuming we're not talking about DA2, in which case it does a lot of things bad.).

Dragon age also challenges these perceptions in the most masturbatory way. Like an 80s cartoon.

for example;

open scene

character1: womenz aint powerful.
female character 1: yez we iz.

female kicks males ass

character 1: I cant believe womenz is powerful!

everyone walks away feeling confident that there opinion is right and stuff.

I keep waiting for heman to come in and say something cheezy
Heman:I guess you showed him what it means to be feminine, cue group laughter-

cut scene.

I think its cool when you challenge perceptions but I hate that cheezy forced way of doing it.

Anything labeled mature tends to be very immature. Porn is a great example.

Here's a personal rule: any game that has a female character named Trish, is never going to be mature.

( A trailer trash name in a game set in medieval times...?? Right! Next we should have a dude named Trip Nathaniel Travis abbreviated TNT which be tattooed on his neck in old English letters, wearing a sports cap to the side, and with snake bite piercings...lol)

:P

Nomanslander:
Here's a personal rule: any game that has a female character named Trish, is never going to be mature.

( A trailer trash name in a game set in medieval times...?? Right! Next we should have a dude named Trip Nathaniel Travis abbreviated TNT which be tattooed on his neck in old English letters, wearing a sports cap to the side, and with snake bite piercings...lol)

:P

Her name is Triss.
Just sayin'.

OT: Eeeeeuuuguguugghghg kinda.
More mature theming than a lot of games but as mentioned, it's kind of the "14 year old" mature. Lots of swearing, rape and sex interrupting the occasional interesting political and social situations that the games attempt to portray.

Of course, I'm saying "games" here but I'm only talking about the second one. First one was abysmal in every way.

As a fan of both Witcher games, no, they are not mature. I'd describe the first game as slightly immature and the second game as low level mature. I base my decision on how the game handles "adult" content. The first Witcher game was enormously chauvinistic and treated all females as sex objects. It's only redeeming quality was Triss, a strong and well realized character. The game also used swearing more frequently than it needed. The plot was "mature" insofar as it dwelled on regional issues rather than "save the princess." It seems to me that the first Witcher in in its prepubescent stage of development.

The second Witcher is not much more progressive with how it views women. The undercurrent of sexual promiscuity is mostly gone, but the game lacks any strong female characters. Triss has been reduced to a helpless wench who needs Geralt to do everything for her. The game revels in violence more than its successor, but only slightly. The mechanics of the game were simplified some, compared to the first, which makes it a less mature game. It's slightly more progressive view of women, compared to the first, gives it a slightly more mature feel.

The above are not criticisms. I enjoyed how the first Witcher made Geralt seem like a medieval James Bond, fucking every hot little thing in sight. I missed that when the second Witcher game came out. I hope they bring it back, complete with sex trophy cards.

endtherapture:
Your opinions?

**puts on Literary Theory glasses**

Ahem.

The Witcher is Low Fantasy - or trying to be. It deals with more "grounded" subject matter like politics and strives to be "realistic".

This is as compared to High Fantasy, where magic is far more common and flashy, and politics take a side seat to big monsters and powerful wizards flinging fireballs willy nilly.

Someone else made the Game of Thrones comparison, and I'd say that's apt - Game of Thrones is also Low Fantasy (moreso than the Witcher, as magic is less common in GoT, but again Low Fantasy is harder to do in a videogame because players want spells).

Many people who dislike fantastic elements in stories prefer Low Fantasy because it doesn't require as much suspension of disbelief. Because it is less fantastic and often more bloody and gritty, many people consider it more "mature".

However, like with all things, maturity and quality have nothing to do with genre. Some people pretend that they do because they want to seem mature while enjoying the things that they enjoy, and they want to make fun of people who enjoy what they don't enjoy, but that is just people being pretentious jerks and has nothing to do with the quality of the actual work being looked at.

IE: The Witcher is Low Fantasy (well, sort of) which is a genre which deals with a more down-to-earth setting, more politics, and less "fantastic" elements. Does that make it more Mature (ie 'better', but not using that word to avoid being shot down on matters of taste) than something more fantastic? No. It depends on the specific qualities of the works in question.

90sgamer:
As a fan of both Witcher games, no, they are not mature. I'd describe the first game as slightly immature and the second game as low level mature. I base my decision on how the game handles "adult" content. The first Witcher game was enormously chauvinistic and treated all females as sex objects. It's only redeeming quality was Triss, a strong and well realized character. The game also used swearing more frequently than it needed. The plot was "mature" insofar as it dwelled on regional issues rather than "save the princess." It seems to me that the first Witcher in in its prepubescent stage of development.

The second Witcher is not much more progressive with how it views women. The undercurrent of sexual promiscuity is mostly gone, but the game lacks any strong female characters. Triss has been reduced to a helpless wench who needs Geralt to do everything for her. The game revels in violence more than its successor, but only slightly. The mechanics of the game were simplified some, compared to the first, which makes it a less mature game. It's slightly more progressive view of women, compared to the first, gives it a slightly more mature feel.

The above are not criticisms. I enjoyed how the first Witcher made Geralt seem like a medieval James Bond, fucking every hot little thing in sight. I missed that when the second Witcher game came out. I hope they bring it back, complete with sex trophy cards.

the fact that triss was the only one might have to do with the setting. in such a place and time exceptional males are rare and females even more so.

90sgamer:
snip

Out of interest, have you only played through the Roche path of the game? Because on the Iorveth path, you meet Saskia and Philipha Eilhart, both very strong female characters. The latter is even said to have totally dominated Radovid's court for a long, long time, with King Radovid mentioning that whenever his father gave an order, the court would look to Eilhart for her permission. At one point when given a quest to retrieve a bunch of magic items, Philippa just goes and gets half of them herself without any help from Geralt.

And seriously, what is with this obsession with how the games portray sex? Yeah, the sex cards were immature, but even in the first game there are a number of female characters that refuse to sleep with Geralt, including one random waitress that practically laughs him out of the bar for suggesting it. But there's a lot more to the games than the optional ability to have sex with a lot of the characters. Does the presence of sex in the game wipe away the complexity of the game's moral choices or the political maneouvering that makes up so much of the second game's plot?

Azahul:

90sgamer:
snip

Out of interest, have you only played through the Roche path of the game? Because on the Iorveth path, you meet Saskia and Philipha Eilhart, both very strong female characters. The latter is even said to have totally dominated Radovid's court for a long, long time, with King Radovid mentioning that whenever his father gave an order, the court would look to Eilhart for her permission. At one point when given a quest to retrieve a bunch of magic items, Philippa just goes and gets half of them herself without any help from Geralt.

And seriously, what is with this obsession with how the games portray sex? Yeah, the sex cards were immature, but even in the first game there are a number of female characters that refuse to sleep with Geralt, including one random waitress that practically laughs him out of the bar for suggesting it. But there's a lot more to the games than the optional ability to have sex with a lot of the characters. Does the presence of sex in the game wipe away the complexity of the game's moral choices or the political maneouvering that makes up so much of the second game's plot?

You called it. I only played Roche's path.

You are summarizing my entire post to "sex." No, sex alone do not make the game immature. The combination of the vast number of mistresses Geralt can court, sex cards, the lack of any strong female roles besides Triss, and vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity makes the game immature and not much different from most video games in terms of over all maturity. The plot is the only mature thing going for it, and even then I didn't think the plot was particularly mature.

A good example of a completely mature game not so different from The Witcher would be Deus Ex, the original. Everything about that game exuded maturity without subtracting from its humor.

The content, by most standards, would be considered mature, yes. The one area where it is lacking is the portrayal of sex but given how minor those plot points are with the respect to the greater narrative, I'll let it slide.

90sgamer:

The second Witcher is not much more progressive with how it views women. The undercurrent of sexual promiscuity is mostly gone, but the game lacks any strong female characters. Triss has been reduced to a helpless wench who needs Geralt to do everything for her.

Triss gets captured and so is gone for most of the game but when she isn't I wouldn't say she helpless wench and what about Philippa, Sile and Saskia?

Edit: oh I see, you only played Roche.
Most the stronger female characters are on Iorveths path. Unfortunately so is most of the more annoying fan service.

It's certainly an M rated game because you have to be of a certain mindset to understand what's going on. The content alone warrants the rating, and I actually feel that it should have gotten a stronger rating for the sex scenes (all of which you can view on YouTube without bothering to play the game yourself).

The thing is that there are other games without the M rating that have strong women, themes dealing with government treachery, racism etc. It's the blood and the sex that give it the mature rating, not all that other intriguing stuff that people have posted here. Beyond Good and Evil had all that stuff with cartoony characters and a really decent woman lead.

The first problem I see here is that you are taking information from BSN, aka the worst fanbase website this side of No Mutants Allowed.

If you wanted a comparison between The Witcher 2 and Dragon Age 2, the woeful latter lacks a quarter of the complexities in terms of plot, character motivation or visual storytelling that are rife throughout the former.

I hesitate to throw the word Mature around, because in Video games that's the equivalent of a teen wearing black makeup to look edgy. But I will say that it has a fairly tight story that is told well and deals with some heavy theems, such as racism and misogyny. Dragon Age 2 deals with similar themes, but the difference is in the presentation. Witcher 2 treats its source material a lot more seriously than Dragon Age 2, it doesn't sugar coat the violence or revel in it (see exploding SUPER GORE DA2 execution moves), and it doesn't shy away from the fact that some people just want to fuck. I'd say that Witcher 2 handles its material more "tastefully" than Dragon Age, if that makes sense.

this is the game where you get cards of the women you bed in suggestive poses ? yup very mature

Well, it is mature in the sense that it contains adult content, including violence, nudity, drugs, etc. I don't think that is what is being asked here though.

Now, is it mature in the sense that it approaches these adult topics with a certain degree of sophistication in order to prop up an atmosphere and elevate discourse on the subject material? I say no, HELL NO. I mean come on! What are some of the scenes in the opening act of The Witcher 2? A guy running in and yelling out, "What the ass fuck is going on here." The game depicting a town square where the topic of greatest interest was the impotence of an unimportant guard. Nudity for the sake of nudity. Giving a whore money to preform oral sex on a guard in a corner (you can see the animation) so you can sneak past him. All of this crap is just silly. I don't see it building toward an atmosphere or stimulating conversation; it's all just thrown in there for the sake of being there. I'm not offended by the material in the game, but let's just say it was frivolous to say the least.

Dragon Age Origins on the other hand managed to approach topics like racism, religion, and politics without using any profanity and without constant sexual innuendos... Yeah, I'd day Dragon Age was a far more mature game and a better game than The Witcher 2 on most accounts.

gamernerdtg2:
It's certainly an M rated game because you have to be of a certain mindset to understand what's going on. The content alone warrants the rating, and I actually feel that it should have gotten a stronger rating for the sex scenes (all of which you can view on YouTube without bothering to play the game yourself).

The thing is that there are other games without the M rating that have strong women, themes dealing with government treachery, racism etc. It's the blood and the sex that give it the mature rating, not all that other intriguing stuff that people have posted here. Beyond Good and Evil had all that stuff with cartoony characters and a really decent woman lead.

Actually, I didn't answer the question from the perspective of rating; rather, on if the game itself handled mature ideas in a proper manner. It frankly depicts issues of racism, nationalism, and sexism and handles such things remarkably well. The portrayal of sex is more than a little naive as it approaches it more as pornography (i.e. sexual fantasy) than anything else.

That said, sex was handled far better given many of the key encounters actually make a fair amount of sense given what we know of the characters in question, given they include a long term mistress, a fellow warrior, a person who's life you've saved etc. All present plausible reasons why a sexual relationship would transpire but the fact that Geralt hops from fling to fling is the problem. It stands in relatively stark contrast to his demonstrated loyalty to friends and relations.

I find, by comparison, the Witcher series to be one of the most mature franchises out there.

As has been expressed by a poster earlier in this thread: their world is not our world. Their world is a feudal setting. In The Witcher I Geralt is faced with a world where he has become somewhat obsolete and is dismissed as a freak and "human but not" in a world that despises non-humans. The Witchers are not needed as often as before because they have been TOO successful in their task. Now they're a bunch of supercharged warriors with strange practices and no political affiliation who financially benefit from the presence of monsters. The average peasant isn't going to look too favourably upon such death machines. They suspect them to be firemen who are also arsonists to keep themselves in business.

The Witcher II involves a series of small kingdoms in the face of an encroaching Empire seeking to expand its dominion by intrigue rather than physical force. A non-human rebellion has been given a significant morale boost due to the assassination of a few kings, one assisted by a group of guerrillas on the extreme side of the non-humans. Meanwhile a dynastic vacuum has appeared and the 3 other kingdoms are squabbling to obtain it while the Empire also eyes the squabble as a good starting point for another invasion or a way to split the alliance that defeated it before.

These are deep and adult themes that the game handles with the kid gloves off. Every aspect of a feudal society is embraced to its fullest extent. Social and political norms (for the setting) are displayed to us at every opportunity, the player is made to understand exactly what this world is like. The game isn't trying to promote sexism, rape or any other terrible crime one can perform on another. It contains FAR more racism than sexism but you do not see anyone decrying it for that. Feudal society hardly ever fair or just for women of the West, why would it be for a game written from a Polish perspective at the onset of the Holy Roman Empire? Life was shit for women then so it's also shit for women in the Witcher.

The sex cards? I actually believe they serve two purposes, to place you in the character of Geralt - he was a womaniser. To him the women he slept with WERE conquests. He's the James Bond of the era and those cards are just notches on his belt. The cards then serve the purpose of being 'collectables' to encourage most gamers to fill that aspect of Geralt. Don't like collecting cards? Well don't have Geralt sleep with them, nobody forces you to.

alphamalet:

Now, is it mature in the sense that it approaches these adult topics with a certain degree of sophistication in order to prop up an atmosphere and elevate discourse on the subject material? I say no, HELL NO. I mean come on! What are some of the scenes in the opening act of The Witcher 2? A guy running in and yelling out, "What the ass fuck is going on here."

Such an example is not precisely a mark of a lack of maturity but rather an attempt to characterize. Your example isn't particularly common and it comes from a character where such a reaction is consistent and reasonable.

alphamalet:

The game depicting a town square where the topic of greatest interest was the impotence of an unimportant guard.

Which isn't particularly out of line for the setting and time period. People are social creatures and the lack of sexual viability of a member of the community would be a matter of interest. Thus this becomes setting appropriate and not simply added for the purpose of titillation.

alphamalet:
Nudity for the sake of nudity. Giving a whore money to preform oral sex on a guard in a corner (you can see the animation) so you can sneak past him.

The paying a whore to do precisely that is again setting appropriate. While one could certainly avoid confronting the subject directly, placing the act in the open diminishes most of it's power. By contrast, the ability to engage a whore's services personally would fall into the category of needless nudity as there is no advantage to this course of action and it calls into question both Geralt's abilities as a womanizer while simultaneously acting in stark condemnation of his otherwise staunch loyalty to friends.

alphamalet:
All of this crap is just silly. I don't see it building toward an atmosphere or stimulating conversation; it's all just thrown in there for the sake of being there. I'm not offended by the material in the game, but let's just say it was frivolous to say the least.

By and large most of the things you cite are appropriate for the setting. I feel that the player's sexual escapades are where the game demonstrates a more adolescent sensibility.

alphamalet:

Dragon Age Origins on the other hand managed to approach topics like racism, religion, and politics without using any profanity and without constant sexual innuendos...

The use of profanity and sexual innuendo is perfectly legitimate so long as it serves a purpose beyond being simply sordid. In most cases in the Witcher, this is accomplished. Indeed, in many cases the use of profanity demonstrates a stronger commitment to realism; people curse in regular conversation and more often when in a stressful scenario. Like most things it is not that cursing is immature; using a curse regularly for the sole purpose of titillation of the audience is immature. Just as it is immature to completely avoid the use of commonly used words because they happen to be on the naughty list.

alphamalet:

Yeah, I'd day Dragon Age was a far more mature game and a better game than The Witcher 2 on most accounts.

I'd give you that on the first one. The second did not hold my interest as well largely because a handful of really odd design choices largely related to encounter management. Where the first game placed a premium on maneuver and positioning, the second undermines this with regularly use of enemies materializing from the aether.

BrotherRool:
The Witcher isn't mature in terms of sex, women and NPC dialogue. In fact, it's incredibly immature and half the dialogue has been written by a 13 year old. There's a whole gameplay mechanic that would give people who know what a female is migraine's just thinking about the design of it.

'I couldn't sleep last night over the sound of my neighbour beating his wife' as NPC dialoge is something that belongs in Saints Row, it is the purple dildo of maturity and is only fitting in a game which doesn't understand the words it's using.

However I think once you get over the fact the writers have giggling fits whenever they hear the word 'whore', I think the politics and grey morality is fairly mature. Overall there was too much juvenile crud for me, but fantasy is often famously airy fairy and bringing in some grit is a gesture I can understand a lot of people getting behind. And the racism stuff was done pretty well.

So not Planescape: Torment, and pretty darn juvenile in some aspects, but a decent job in others

Oh PLEASE tell me that's not in Witcher 2? That's just so, so bad if so :(

OT: Well not really. I'd say it was trying too hard. Ok game, I understand that your world is supposed to be this grimdark swords 'n' stuff fantasy thing and that's fine but stop shoving it into my fucking face every 2 seconds.

Seriously, you can't walk down a street without somebody loudly bragging about whores or dicks or beer or murder or something along those lines. It's dumb as hell.

The game is practically going "Have I told you i'm feeling grimdark today? No? I'm feeling grimdark, maybe we should go out for some racism and muder later?" all the fucking time

Oh yeah and the sex thingies are awful. Maybe that's just me and my near phobia of women but w/e >.<

Y'know a game that's really mature wouldn't go out of its way to LOOK mature. Like Persona 4 for example. It deals with some incredibly mature elements and you would never say it goes out of its way to look cool, dark and edgy just because those elements are fast tracks into Matureville.

Y'know the primary colour scheme in Persona 4? Guess? It's bright fucking yellow.

It's as mature as real life, I suppose. You can go around laughing at breasts, sex scenes, dirty jokes or swearwords or you could focus on the more plot related aspects such as politics and death. It's a fairly accurate interpretation of a medieval society at its worst. Yes, people do make dirty jokes (don't you?), yes there is sex, yes there are underlying plots around and kings are just thugs with an army. I don't think it's trying to be mature as much as it tries to be realistic and accurate in its time-frame.

It's just not wrapped in a silk glove. It doesn't try to tell you this or that is proper, you can't save everyone and everything and you're not some big damn hero whose influence makes everyone around a better person.

The Wykydtron:

Oh PLEASE tell me that's not in Witcher 2? That's just so, so bad if so :(
------------------------

Y'know the primary colour scheme in Persona 4? Guess? It's bright fucking yellow.

It's Witcher 1. -Also now I really want to play Persona

BrotherRool:

The Wykydtron:

Oh PLEASE tell me that's not in Witcher 2? That's just so, so bad if so :(
------------------------

Y'know the primary colour scheme in Persona 4? Guess? It's bright fucking yellow.

It's Witcher 1. -Also now I really want to play Persona

I think i'll join you. *boots up PS2* LET'S DO THIS!

Is it a first playthough or a re-run for you? I couldn't tell. I'll stop myself here before I end up writing an essay called Why Persona 4 is the Greated Game Ever Made. It randomly happens I swear XD

The Wykydtron:

I think i'll join you. *boots up PS2* LET'S DO THIS!

Is it a first playthough or a re-run for you? I couldn't tell. I'll stop myself here before I end up writing an essay called Why Persona 4 is the Greated Game Ever Made. It randomly happens I swear XD

I still haven't had the chance of a first playthrough :( My PS2 KO'ed and I'm waiting for it to be released in the European PSN

EDIT: Wikipedia now says it's going to be released in Europe on the 22nd. This is going to be so good. My entire easter holiday is going to be spent on this one game now

I think there is a major split between themes and presentation.

Its themes handles some very deep subjects off moral great areas, crime and punishment as well as some political topics that all ties in. It is also touching on the subject of nature VS nurture for Geralt as he is presented with a clean slate from his memory wipe and a world where he has become obsolete as a monster hunter but could have a very promising career killing humans.

There is a lot of stuff in there worth talking about.

It is unfortunate the presentation isn't as well performed as its subject deserves...

Mature? Only in the sense that you probably shouldn't show it to the little'uns. But it's an original, ambitious continuity that is trying hard to do right by people who don't want the cuss words bleeped, the nudey bits blurred or the choices black and white.

They're mature in the sense that the plot is about political intrigue and deals with difficult topics such as racism, terrorism and political corruption, puts an emphasis on the consequences of player decisions, and includes ambiguous moral choices that are more about ideology than good and evil.

They're not very mature in their approach to sex.

What you encountered was just a standard fanboy who's a little insecure about the fact that there are serious RPGs made by developers who aren't Bioware. You shouldn't really trust anything said on the Bioware forums. Even Bioware's own staff thinks it's a toxic wasteland.

JoesshittyOs:
I recently bought the Witcher 2, and I have to say... I wouldn't call it a mature game.

I kinda set it down because it really wasn't holding my attention and was terribly written. Whoever wrote some of the dialogue options I feel really has never actually had a conversation with a woman before. It was a tad bit misogynistic.

Bwuh?

I think I summarised my response adequately and now I'm just trying to avoid a low content warning, but seriously - I'm interested in hearing what specifically put you off. The Witcher games are a bit sex-obsessed, but I'd never go so far as to call it misogynistic.

Zhukov:
Yes, what you encountered was just garden variety fanboyism. See, after Dragon Age 2 went down the gurgler and The Witcher 2 was a hit, there were some people hailing CDProject Red (developers of The Witcher) as "the new Bioware" or "like Bioware but better". To a hardcore Bioware fan, this would be akin to a needle under the fingernails, so they respond by hating on The Witcher games with all their might.

As for whether or the Wither games are mature.... hahahahahaaa... nope.

The first one was laughably immature. Surely we haven't forgotten the Gotta Bonk 'em All collectable sex cards.

The second one was a bit better. But it's the kind of maturity you'd expect from a 14 year old boy who wears his father's pants, desperately shaves his bumfluff and swears loudly in the schoolyard. "Hey, hey, have you noticed how totally mature I am? Here, have some more cussing! Ohh, and I'm dark too. See, here's implied rape scene number four!"

Hang on a sec here Zhukov I need to call you out on something. A random guy on the Bioware forums calls the Witcher games immature, which according to you are grounds for being a fanboy (and all the negative connotations that term carries with it). You then turn around and say "Yep, the Witcher games are pretty immature". Care to explain this morsel of double standardism? Or do you have something against Bbioware fans in general? :(

Sorry about going off rails here op but if you want my opinion: just enjoy a game if you find it entertaining, who cares if game X is mature or game Y is more grounded in reality at the end of the day it's a piece of entertainment and different people have different ideas of what's entertaining or meaningful for them. This dick swinging contest of game A was totally better than game D, and you must play game Z or your a moron gets nobody nowhere. Just a lot of butthurt comments and bitter rebukes.
wow... that argument degenerated fast.

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