Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?

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http://www.killscreendaily.com/articles/interviews/tomb-raider-writer-rhianna-pratchett-why-every-kill-cant-be-first-and-why-she-wanted-make-lara-croft-gay/

What do you think? Like it? Dislike it? Would it change the character of Lara too much?

Personally, I don't think we will see any major changes, the franchise is mostly about raiding tombs -more like destroying tombs- anyhow.

Furthermore, although Lara Croft was designed to be an attractive woman in the past games, she seemed to lack an interest in either men or women. Therefore I doubt this will change her character in any way.

This does't surprise me at all, Sam does seem to be a little obsessed with Lara and out of all her friends that Lara takes to the island, Sam does seem to be her main concern.

I kinda like it that way, maybe there is something there, maybe they're just really close friends. But if they had just made Lara gay, it wouldn't of bothered me. Though I imagine that some fanboy/girl somewhere would have been upset about it.

Sack of Cheese:
http://www.killscreendaily.com/articles/interviews/tomb-raider-writer-rhianna-pratchett-why-every-kill-cant-be-first-and-why-she-wanted-make-lara-croft-gay/

What do you think? Like it? Dislike it? Would it change the character of Lara too much?

Personally, I don't think we will see any major changes, the franchise is mostly about raiding tombs -more like destroying tombs- anyhow.

Furthermore, although Lara Croft was designed to be an attractive woman in the past games, she seemed to lack an interest in either men or women. Therefore I doubt this will change her character in anyway.

1. This thread will certainly end well.

2. By having a character who was more or less asexual before become a homosexual, you are changing her character. Mind you, I didn't say that this would make things worse, just that this possibly adds romance to games which didn't really feature romantic subplots till now.

3. I love how Rhianna Pratchett insists that Lara "Genocide" Croft is more empathic than her male counterparts. This really shone through when she put the 35th flaming arrow through a poor sods skull after insulting him. Or when she was gunning down legions of henchmen, all the while swearing like a sailor.
Empathy, right?

Ha!

Well, that probably would've tripled the sales right there. I certainly wouldn't have had any objections.

It was a good interview, Ms Pratchett came across well. Although I'm still not convinced of her writing ability.

I do find it amusing that out of all the content there it was the throwaway comment regarding the possibility of a gay Lara Croft that was seized upon.

Lastly, "Whitey McStubbly" made me laugh. I'm totally stealing her term for future use.

That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Lara Croft had a fiancée in her backstory who died in a plane crush. She had relationships in the movies and comic books - yes alternative canons but part of the general perception. Don't screw with existing characters, make a new one.

King Aragorn:

''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

This.

Is it bad that while playing the game I felt there was some kind of barely there romantic feeling between Laura and Sam that was maybe a leftover of an earlier incarnation of the story? I mean maybe they had this big idea of Lara and Sam being in a relationship early in development and it managed to exist for a while before being cut for some unexplained reason.

Meh. Most of the characters aren't really personalized outside of Lara herself...of course I'm only like 40% of the way through so iunno.

Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.
I think I would be really annoyed.
It would feel like they were taking away the one relate-able female protagonist ><
If she made her gay I wouldn't kick up a fuss but I really hope she doesn't.
By making her gay I can't help but feel it would just be pandering to the guys again...

It kinda came off that way in the game anyway. I was asking myself the whole game,"So, Lara and Sam?". As to whether it'd be a bridge too far, it wouldn't bother me. In fact, it would humanize our bloodthirsty protagonist a bit more to know it was for a loved one.

Just tweeted her about it and she got back to me with this.

Rhianna Pratchett ‏@rhipratchett 4m
@Bennjoon I was just musing on the subject/topic. The title of the piece was a bit misleading. It wasn't something I set out to do.

Yay.

Disclaimer (I would be upset not because she would lesbian but because Lara is like the single games character I relate too....so yes I'm super selfish :p)

What is it with people and seeing any affection as automatically sexual/romantic? Lara and Sam don't act any different than multitudes of modern girl friends I've seen.

I don't like the idea but not because I have something against homosexuality. They were trying to move away from overxesualization of Lara with this reboot. And I liked that. I really love the game. Now, everybody knows that guys like girl on girl action. So if they made Lara gay, it would have felt forced and immature no matter how they implemented it. Lara's sexuality isn't something the game should be focusing on.

When people don't focus on sexualization, they just make their characters heterosexual because it's easy. Heterosexual relationships are common and they are accepted everywhere. Everybody knows how they work and it doesn't require much thinking. Or any thinking. But making characters gay means that you spent a lot more time thinking about something that isn't important. You made a choice to focus on an aspect of the game that people shouldn't even care about. The game is not about Lara's sexuality, it's about jumping around, raiding tombs and surviving against impossible odds.

Also what Moonlight Butterfly is 100% true. Why can't we have a heterosexual female that is tougher than all of her male friends? Why would she have to be homosexual? To make guys feel less intimidated?

This brings me back to inclusion of homosexual romance option in Mass Effect. Bioware once said that Shepard is a heterosexual character.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2010/02/08/bioware-shepherd-is-heterosexual-by-choice/1

And then they made Cortez and Trainor for ME3 romance options and they made Kaiden bisexual. Which I don't have a problem with as long as it doesn't mess up my game. But why wouldn't all these characters know that Shepard doesn't swing that way? It threw me off when Kaidan declared that he wants to be more than friends. He should know that I romanced Liara in ME1. He should know that I romanced her in ME3 as well. He should know that Shepard is heterosexual. It was a real immersion breaker for me. Which is why I had the idea that players should be able to select their character's sexuality at the beginning of the game in the character creator. It's an RPG after all. Very character driven.

captcha: be mine

Always, captcha. Always <3

Moonlight Butterfly:
Just tweeted her about it and she got back to me with this.

Rhianna Pratchett ‏@rhipratchett 4m
@Bennjoon I was just musing on the subject/topic. The title of the piece was a bit misleading. It wasn't something I set out to do.

Yay.

Disclaimer (I would be upset not because she would lesbian but because Lara is like the single games character I relate too....so yes I'm super selfish :p)

She also stated she wanted to keep it "ambiguous".
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=6714752#post6714752

I guess no one's feelings would be hurt that way, people who root for it or against it.

Sack of Cheese:

Moonlight Butterfly:
Just tweeted her about it and she got back to me with this.

Rhianna Pratchett ‏@rhipratchett 4m
@Bennjoon I was just musing on the subject/topic. The title of the piece was a bit misleading. It wasn't something I set out to do.

Yay.

Disclaimer (I would be upset not because she would lesbian but because Lara is like the single games character I relate too....so yes I'm super selfish :p)

She also stated she wanted to keep it "ambiguous".
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=6714752#post6714752

I guess no one's feelings would be hurt that way, people who root for it or against it.

Yeah, I would love to see Lara have a boyfriend mostly because it was stated back in the day they did it deliberately so lads could feel like 'she belonged to them' -.- (not even joking) but ambiguous is fine with me. As then people can have their own head canon.

Moonlight Butterfly:
Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.
I think I would be really annoyed.
It would feel like they were taking away the one relate-able female protagonist ><
If she made her gay I wouldn't kick up a fuss but I really hope she doesn't.
By making her gay I can't help but feel it would just be pandering to the guys again...

Yeah, on a similar note to the Remember Me thing. A woman kissing a guy...that'd be weird, better make sure it's another woman (or in RMs case swap the sex of the player/NPC, but you get the picture) wouldn't want all the dudes playing it to feel uncomfortable. Plus 'HOT LESBIANS!!!' etc.

Now I'm sure that wasn't her motivation (and reading the interview it seems like the gay thing is a minor side note, one consideration of many during development that she would have been perfectly happy with had it been taken up) and isn't necessarily the motivation of any other instance of this happening but I can certainly see why people might be suspicious that it was.

Not a fan of the idea. This is I think the very first character that functioned as a "sex symbol" in the history of gaming (granted, we were all pretty young when we played the first Tomb Raider games). But writing her as gay 15 years after the character's conception sounds like a bad idea to all the people who have that particular kind of affection towards the character. It's not like she's a particularly deep character either, no need to go too much into issues of sexuality imho. It would be like having a Predator 3 movie with Arnold suddenly being gay, why would you do that.

King Aragorn:
That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Yeah, it's funny how so many games are changing things to include gays, whether to be "more inclusive" or to "push boundaries" yet they never intentionally plan to include gays from day one. At this point, gays are an "afterthought" market, only included after the game is proven to be successful so that they know the "gayness" won't jeopardize their sales. That, and games (like movies and still many books) seem to have that issue where every character in the game is white, male, and straight by default until the writers decide otherwise. Thus turning the cast development into less of an ensemble and more of a diversity checklist.

Oh really. Well i certainly hope that she will be a lesbian in a next game. I am no fan of tomb raider but this would certainly motivate me to at least watch cutscenes on YouTube. Provided that the cutscense would be interesting if you know what i mean :)

Zhukov:

I do find it amusing that out of all the content there it was the throwaway comment regarding the possibility of a gay Lara Croft that was seized upon.

That's how these things work. You know, combing through articles for minutia....

Moonlight Butterfly:
Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.
I think I would be really annoyed.
It would feel like they were taking away the one relate-able female protagonist ><
If she made her gay I wouldn't kick up a fuss but I really hope she doesn't.
By making her gay I can't help but feel it would just be pandering to the guys again...

Real pandering would be if they brought Kurtis Trent back.
Lesbians would have been the next best thing IMHO.

Go see how many remixes there are of these two on Youtube.

DVS BSTrD:

Moonlight Butterfly:
Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.
I think I would be really annoyed.
It would feel like they were taking away the one relate-able female protagonist ><
If she made her gay I wouldn't kick up a fuss but I really hope she doesn't.
By making her gay I can't help but feel it would just be pandering to the guys again...

Real pandering would be if they brought Kurtis Trent back.
Lesbians would have been the next best thing IMHO.<>Go see how many remixes there are of these two on Youtube.

God that game was so awful.

Pointless extra protag is pointless.

Kind of just seems pointless to be honest, and if they did make her gay they would probably sexualize it too much. Shes never really been proven to be straight to my knowledge either? Like a lot of game characters there sexual preference is never mentioned and thus we assume they're straight.

In her origin story she had a fiancée.

Calibanbutcher:
This really shone through when she put the 35th flaming arrow through a poor sods skull after insulting him. Or when she was gunning down legions of henchmen, all the while swearing like a sailor.
Empathy, right?

Or that finishing move where she jams a shotgun under some mook's jaw and takes his head clean off.

Even Mr Marcus Fenix might consider that one a bit much.

Lilani:

King Aragorn:
That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Yeah, it's funny how so many games are changing things to include gays, whether to be "more inclusive" or to "push boundaries" yet they never intentionally plan to include gays from day one. At this point, gays are an "afterthought" market, only included after the game is proven to be successful so that they know the "gayness" won't jeopardize their sales. That, and games (like movies and still many books) seem to have that issue where every character in the game is white, male, and straight by default until the writers decide otherwise. Thus turning the cast development into less of an ensemble and more of a diversity checklist.

I can't figure out whether this is sarcasm. Making Lara gay would have been a token move, just like her getting raped. But actually this news is encouraging to me, because her sexuality wasn't relevant to the story at all. She could well be gay and it would be just like a modern writer to throw it in for no reason at all than to be edgy or different. I still think the game's story is boring.

For me, Lara Croft falls firmly into the category of characters who don't need to have their sexuality made evident. She is an asexual character, she raids tombs and doesn't afraid of anything. To make a point of her sexuality would be superfluous.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Sack of Cheese:

Moonlight Butterfly:
Just tweeted her about it and she got back to me with this.

Yay.

Disclaimer (I would be upset not because she would lesbian but because Lara is like the single games character I relate too....so yes I'm super selfish :p)

She also stated she wanted to keep it "ambiguous".
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=6714752#post6714752

I guess no one's feelings would be hurt that way, people who root for it or against it.

Yeah, I would love to see Lara have a boyfriend mostly because it was stated back in the day they did it deliberately so lads could feel like 'she belonged to them' -.- (not even joking) but ambiguous is fine with me. As then people can have their own head canon.

That was the logic? Really? Damn, that's pretty sad. Now that I think of it I don't believe I know of any games where you play as a female in a relationship (besides Bioware RPGs). Wonder why that is >.>

I got the vibe that Lara and Sam were just best friends and that Lara felt guilty for bringing the crew to the island and that Sam kept getting kidnapped from right under her nose. Read one of Sam's journals, she says that they met a lot of cute dudes on some mountain or at a club or something so I don't think Sam is gay.

Fappy:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Sack of Cheese:

She also stated she wanted to keep it "ambiguous".
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?p=6714752#post6714752

I guess no one's feelings would be hurt that way, people who root for it or against it.

Yeah, I would love to see Lara have a boyfriend mostly because it was stated back in the day they did it deliberately so lads could feel like 'she belonged to them' -.- (not even joking) but ambiguous is fine with me. As then people can have their own head canon.

That was the logic? Really? Damn, that's pretty sad. Now that I think of it I don't believe I know of any games where you play as a female in a relationship (besides Bioware RPGs). Wonder why that is >.>

I know right :p

It was in a playstation mag if I remember correctly, you have to remember this was like 12 years ago or so. Dev's weren't as subtle lol.

I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't be ecstatic either.

The main concern I have is that I can't think of a way to fit a romantic episode into a game like the new Tomb Raider without bloating it unnecessarily. As the author indicated, the ramp-up time for her emotional adaptation to violence is already super-condensed.

I mean, I'm confused by the comment that nobody can truly be good who kills 'a lot'... If the circumstances demand it once and your motives are good, you're no worse the thousandth time than you were the first. You are as good as you were before you killed anyone and just as empathetic as well IMO.

BUT I still think her adaptation to violence should be slower, especially thinking back on some of my own less extreme but still relatable experiences.

Inclusion of a romantic arc of any kind, hetero or homo-sexual, would just further squeeze an already squashed character narrative.

Candidus:
I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't be ecstatic either.

The main concern I have is that I can't think of a way to fit a romantic episode into a game like the new Tomb Raider without bloating it unnecessarily. As the author indicated, the ramp-up time for her emotional adaptation to violence is already super-condensed.

I mean, I'm confused by the comment that nobody can truly be good who kills 'a lot'... If the circumstances demand it once and your motives are good, you're no worse the thousandth time than you were the first. You are as good as you were before you killed anyone and just as empathetic as well IMO.

BUT I still think her adaptation to violence should be slower, especially thinking back on some of my own less extreme but still relatable experiences.

Inclusion of a romantic arc of any kind, hetero or homo-sexual, would just further squeeze an already squashed character narrative.

To be fair on the writers they pushed to have her slowly introduced to the combat but the devs were against it. I think it would have made more sense that way.

I haven't played any of the Tomb Raider games, they just never appealed to me but in regards making a Lesbian Lara Croft

This...

Zhukov:
Ha!

Well, that probably would've tripled the sales right there.

Lesbian makes guys buy games...

And this

Moonlight Butterfly:
Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.
I think I would be really annoyed.
It would feel like they were taking away the one relate-able female protagonist ><
If she made her gay I wouldn't kick up a fuss but I really hope she doesn't.
By making her gay I can't help but feel it would just be pandering to the guys again...

A woman couldn't be that strong so they made the lesbian a man with boobs...
And again with the lesbian only to make the guys buy the game

And this

Adam Jensen:

Now, everybody knows that guys like girl on girl action. So if they made Lara gay, it would have felt forced and immature no matter how they implemented it.

When people don't focus on sexualization, they just make their characters heterosexual because it's easy.

Also what Moonlight Butterfly is 100% true. Why can't we have a heterosexual female that is tougher than all of her male friends? Why would she have to be homosexual? To make guys feel less intimidated?

Homosexual characters can't be well written so their inclusion is only for the titillation of the guys...
Any character that doesn't have a sexuality defined explicitly is hetrosexual...
And lesbians for guys again

Special mention goes to...

RTSnab:
Awww yiss.

Lesbians!

Really dude

I acknowledge that I'm taking a very basic view of what I've quoted, if she has to have a sexuality but doesn't make a deal of it (ie no sex, making out, etc) then what does it matter, throw in a couple of random lines here and there about a girlfriend or whatever and you establish a preference without actually making it an issue, though that would probably just be dismissed as tokenism. In a community where we have some in-depth "discussions" on gender, sexuality and representing minorities as protagonists just the suggestion that a major franchise protagonist might have been written as homosexual has no one supporting it and instead dismissing it as tokenism, or "impossible to write well, without obviously just being titillation for the guys" or as "suggesting that a straight female couldn't have filled that character role"

This is why we don't see change, because if its not perfect its not good enough. Next you'll be trying to tell me that the Master Chief is obviously straight because of the equally obvious romance between him and Cortana.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Lilani:

King Aragorn:
That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Yeah, it's funny how so many games are changing things to include gays, whether to be "more inclusive" or to "push boundaries" yet they never intentionally plan to include gays from day one. At this point, gays are an "afterthought" market, only included after the game is proven to be successful so that they know the "gayness" won't jeopardize their sales. That, and games (like movies and still many books) seem to have that issue where every character in the game is white, male, and straight by default until the writers decide otherwise. Thus turning the cast development into less of an ensemble and more of a diversity checklist.

I can't figure out whether this is sarcasm. Making Lara gay would have been a token move, just like her getting raped. But actually this news is encouraging to me, because her sexuality wasn't relevant to the story at all. She could well be gay and it would be just like a modern writer to throw it in for no reason at all than to be edgy or different. I still think the game's story is boring.

Oh no, I agree with you perfectly. Making her gay would have been a "Look at how edgy we are!" look, as King Aragorn pointed out.

But that's only because Lara is already an established character, and because they are revealing it after the game was already released. It's not that I mind characters in stories being gay, and like with straight characters I feel like you can have it be a known part of their character without "doing" a lot with it. Not every straight character in a story has to have an arc that has to do with them being straight, and nor should they. And there is no reason the same can't be done with gay characters.

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