Why is the Wii U not selling as well as expected?

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Many have said it before, but... Games. The are many factors, but games have always been the main reason. I see the Wii as a crappy console in many regards (not in the least the forced motion controls on so many games), but when Xenoblade Chronicles (and in lesser extend The Last Story and Pandora's Tower) hit the market, I just had to buy one. Especially since you could play Xenoblade Chronicles with a normal controller!

Same with the Wii U, the whole "tablets are popular, let's put an entire freakin' iPad in one of our controllers and just keep the retarded motion control for all the rest"-scheme didn't really impress me and there are no games to convince me.

Yet.

When Monolith Soft announced they were working on a new RPG for the Wii U, they had my curiosity.

Ever since I've seen the trailer for it, they've had my attention.

Abandon4093:

They've gone down the same rout as the PS3. It's a powerful system that they're going to have to lose money on for X amount of years. And it's still going to be expensive if they do that.

You mean...*gasp* The loss-leader method that has been standard in gaming for literally decades, and employed not only by console manufacturers but retailers and the almighty VALVE?

Yeah, even though what you've said is unproven, if true it means absolutely nothing.

Oddly enough, the CoD generalisation wasn't the problem. The fact that you are assuming specs not offered into evidence or that it holds any relevance to my argument does.

Just for the record, the "shinier turd" philosophy applies to Durango as well, barring something mind-blowing about the new console.

Desert Punk:

People may ask themselves if an extra 50-100-200 dollars or what have you is worth the ability to play their games without worrying about an internet connection, having to install your games to play them, ect.

Assuming truth to any of that.

Which, at this point, is complete assumption like Abandon is doing.

Zachary Amaranth:

Auron225:
People have finally learned their lesson to NOT buy any console as soon as its released.

I see what you're saying, but it's only one console. Also, I just watched the SimCity fiasco live and in HD, so I'm not inclined to believe that gamers have learned their lesson.

Gamers don't buy consoles with the promise of good games further down the line. But they do buy games with the promise of good games down the line. It's one of gaming's great mysteries.

It's just a matter of games.

Worry not I bet with the Escapist 10 euros as Wii U will sell more than PS4.

PS3 and 3DS also started badly but they both picked up the train.

Desert Punk:
Because all Nintendo has to offer their Fanboys...er...consumers is Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. Until one of those drops I doubt WiiU will have many sales at all, as you can get better libraries of games, at the same looks, on older consoles or PC.

The WiiU is too close to this generation in terms of tech to make it a killer item to buy, and once the better next gen consoles drop it will be in the same position the Wii was, using shitty older tech, without the benefit of having a huge casual install base.

Why are people still talking about tech nowadays?
Do you know that I have almost all my needs covered with a Nintendo console and a PC? I have no need for PS and Xbox crap if they are the same as ever. The few games I can't buy usually don't interest me, the only exception might be The Last of Us, but I don't like shooters with classic controller, unless it's kinda easy to shoot like in Zombi U.
So yeah, while most of escapist droll over PS3 and 360 and their graphics, I'd rather have a PC for graphics and shooters and a Nintendo for the best exclusives.

Also, what does 360 has to offer to fanboys...er... consumers? Paid Online? Games I can play on my PC?

Sorry for my argumentation level being low, but I lowered to the level of this thread :)

Dryk:

Gamers don't buy consoles with the promise of good games further down the line.

If you truly believe that, you need to brush up on launch history.

That, my friend, truly IS one of gaming's great mysteries.

Anoni Mus:
Games I can play on my PC?

Given the tears of the PC fanbase, games that actually work when not played on PC.

I really dont want another 5 years of games being strangled and not being what they could be on the PC just so they can run well on consoles

I agree with madwarper. It's completely obvious to see why the Wii U's sales are not as good as the Wii, and why it's generally not selling fantastically.

However, the question of why aren't they selling as expected, well... When you consider that the Wii U is the follow up to one of the biggest success stories in gaming history, the fact that it still has few/no "killer apps" like Wii Sports, the fact that the controller isn't as huge an innovate leap as the Wiimote was, the failure to properly market the thing, the lack of a proper target market (is it still aimed at casuals, or now the hardcore crowd? Is it still a family system, or just for the household gamer? These are the kinds of questions consumers need answers to in Nintendo's marketing scheme)...

I feel like it IS actually selling as well as could be expected.

Anoni Mus:
It's just a matter of games.

Worry not I bet with the Escapist 10 euros as Wii U will sell more than PS4.

PS3 and 3DS also started badly but they both picked up the train.

Desert Punk:
Because all Nintendo has to offer their Fanboys...er...consumers is Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. Until one of those drops I doubt WiiU will have many sales at all, as you can get better libraries of games, at the same looks, on older consoles or PC.

The WiiU is too close to this generation in terms of tech to make it a killer item to buy, and once the better next gen consoles drop it will be in the same position the Wii was, using shitty older tech, without the benefit of having a huge casual install base.

Why are people still talking about tech nowadays?
Do you know that I have almost all my needs covered with a Nintendo console and a PC? I have no need for PS and Xbox crap if they are the same as ever. The few games I can't buy usually don't interest me, the only exception might be The Last of Us, but I don't like shooters with classic controller, unless it's kinda easy to shoot like in Zombi U.
So yeah, while most of escapist droll over PS3 and 360 and their graphics, I'd rather have a PC for graphics and shooters and a Nintendo for the best exclusives.

Also, what does 360 has to offer to fanboys...er... consumers? Paid Online? Games I can play on my PC?

Sorry for my argumentation level being low, but I lowered to the level of this thread :)

Because higher levels of memory and processors will allow for better and smarter AI, physics simulations, less load screens and larger environments. Some people will be happy with less naturally, they are still Amish after all. But the majority want to see advances. :P

If you pay attention I never mentioned graphics. Graphics are so high at the moment that any difference between the WiiU and the PS/Durango will be mostly academic in nature to the point that the average player wont be able to distinguish between one and the other.

Personally I play PC and have a 360 only for exclusives (Which is why my 360 library consists of about 10 games and my Steam library has thousands of dollars on it lol), but I tend to think Nintendo has shitty exclusives but that is up to a matter of taste, not hard numbers like the tech involved. Though IF the durango rumors are proven true at the release, I will likely pick up the PS4 for exclusives I cant get on my PC.

Hell even the Console exclusives will likely be even less likely this next generation with so many starting to used modified PC parts.

Desert Punk:

Because higher levels of memory and processors will allow for better and smarter AI, physics simulations, less load screens and larger environments.

will allow for, but won't necessarily happen. We've been seeing smaller games which still have bad AI and a lot of load screens.

Physics and shiny textures happen, but not everyone is satisfied with a finely polished turd.

K84:
I just hope the WiiU does'nt become Nintendo's "Dreamcast".

I would actually be quite happy for it to go that way, at the moment. Pretty much the only thing Nintendo's last three consoles have been good for is their first party titles, which were few and far between, so I think it would be better for everyone if they went the way of Sega and started releasing their IP on Sony and Microsoft's consoles.

And now that things like Playstation Move regrettably appear to be here to stay, Nintendo wouldn't even necessarily have to drop all that motion control rubbish, either.

Zachary Amaranth:

Desert Punk:

Because higher levels of memory and processors will allow for better and smarter AI, physics simulations, less load screens and larger environments.

will allow for, but won't necessarily happen. We've been seeing smaller games which still have bad AI and a lot of load screens.

Physics and shiny textures happen, but not everyone is satisfied with a finely polished turd.

Physics rely more on the CPU than GPU if I recall.

But again we have been held back by really really old tech, and varied tech to boot thanks to PS3s cell processor setup. And yes, "Well allow for."

Everything is speculation at this point

If I had to guess based solely on my own experiences and impressions...

The Wii failed to appeal enough to the 'hardcore' gamer.
The WiiU tried to appeal to the 'hardcore' gamer in the same way the Wii did when it came out.
The same thing was also attempted with the Wii motion plus attachment being geared towards the 'hardcore' gamer.

Those gamers, myself included, are not willing to give the console a chance this early on because we may well end up having a console that collects dust for weeks or months at a time.

Moving to the other end of the spectrum....
'Casual' gamers might not see the need or value in upgrading platforms.
The Wii still has plenty of support and the WiiU doesn't bring a lot of new elements to the table for group gaming. Especially given with the design of only one person getting the special controller while everyone else uses the same old technology (I'm aware you can buy more than one WiiU controller but it's not really promoted that way and it's very costly to buy several of them).

What we end up with a game console that satisfies neither the stereotypical hardcore or casual gamers.
The WiiU wants to make everyone happy but simply can't deliver.

Desert Punk:

Physics rely more on the CPU than GPU if I recall.

Your point being?

I'm not the one who brought it up, and nothing I said specifically differentiates.

Marketing and lack of exposure would be my guess, along with a lack of games

You have to actively seek it out to know anything about the Wii U. Hell I thought it was a handheld device for the longest time

There is nothing that remotely interests me about its games, or even the potential of future games. I'm a huge fan of Metroid and Zelda, but after Other M and Skyward Sword/Twilight Princess/Windwaker for the most part I am reticent towards their future installments.

Games aside, I have no love for motion controls, and even less for gimmicky controllers like the WiiU mini screen thing. The kinds of "unique experiences" that these systems of control are desperately trying to convince us we are missing if we don't have this hardware just don't interest me.

I've waved my arms around while playing a game, when I was 6, and again with my Wii for about 3 days. The fact that the second example actually elicited a response didn't make my day the way is does for some people. I don't like Miis, and no company will be better served developing for Nintendo than Sony or Microsoft.

Their customers are already invested in one or both of those console lineages. Most of the people that are into Nintendo hardware today, and honestly going back to every one of their consoles after the SNES, are primarily fans of their 1st party titles. Myself included, people are remembering the days where Nintendo was synonymous with videogames, and hold on to the few bright shining stars that are Mario/Zelda/Metroid etc. releases. A system is considered as useless until they release a Zelda game on it as plenty of prior comments aver. Why would you, as a dev, even bother taking a new Nintendo console seriously as a potential customer install base until those 1st party gems are released? Why release anything for a console that's primary fandom hasn't been given a reason to even own the system yet?

Most devs gave Nintendo a pass with the overwhelming majority of their IPs in this last gen, and nothing short of rampant bribery and lowering of their integrity towards releasing the best possible looking/performing version of their titles will see the WiiU receiving anything but the occasional backhanded port with an added nod to the hardware's various gimmicks as the huge selling point.

In the event that they DO release something phenomenal on the WiiU, I'd probably just as soon watch an LP of it on Youtube like I did for Dead Space 3. Glad I did, as DS3 was such an unmitigated disappointment I would have literally felt shame if I had purchased it myself.

I swear that game should win the Guiness World Record for most elevators in a videogame. Or at least it has to tie with Zillion. Also, most well ventilated game environment as every other wall features at least 2 man sized vent covers for the obvious reason.

Forlong:
The Wii U sales haven't been steller. And I mean in terms of most Nintendo hardware. Saying the Nintendo product "isn't selling as expected" is like saying that Donald Trump is losing money. There is no real reason to worry.

However, this is a pattern that has emmerged in the youth of the eighth console generation. The 3DS had similar sales issues, and the Vita had them in spades. If what Sony says about PS4 specs is any indicator, this selling issue will hit it like a wrecking ball. Microsoft will fair no better than Nintendo. As for the fabled Steambox...er...we can download Steam onto our computers, so Valve will need to throw one hell of a sales pitch at E3.

I think what happened was that gamers in general have gotten wise to this ploy. Developers long believed they always needed to be on the cutting edge of inovation. New graphics, new control mods, new features, ect. But thanks to the development of technology, inovation can take the back seat. We certainly still need inovation, just not in the form of new tech every seven years. Sure Nintendo needed a new console, but do Sony and Microsoft really need it? Nope.

The bad news is that the console providors will be in denial of this fact for quite a while. We might indeed, have to watch Sony go bankrupt. We my have to suffer through more of Microsoft struggling to come up with "hip" names for new consoles. We can only hope EA makes a botched console that we all comfortably laugh at.

The good news is that, once they figured this out, we won't be seeing new consoles for a long time. A console generation will last for an average of 12 years, instead of 8. We might see a few upgrade parts, like the ROM addaptor for the N64, but not as much new consoles. Game devs will clue in soon after and step in line, focusing on just making good games rather than being on the cutting edge 100% of the time.

A man can dream...a man can dream...

and here was me thinking it might have something to do with being in one of the longest recession's or that none of the struggling consoles have any good games yet.
Developers needing to be on the cutting edge wasnt ever a ploy it was a simple hardware fact, games a year old used to look terrible back in the power growth boom , the old adage of power doubles every year hasnt applied for a good few years now. it makes total logical sense that console and pc generations will last longer when the speed of improvement in hardware has slowed to what is a comparative crawl.

im really not sure why you link the troubles of the 3ds vita and wii u to also hit the ps4 and xbox, those last two will have a stable of exclusives, or maker exclusives at the least. And as for not needed? i disagree, and so do you, because your not complaining the ps2 is good enough and we dont need a ps3, if you just want good games you can go get a sega dreamcast or any one of consoles from multiple generations past. but the argument that the ps3 and xbox are good enough for todays modern games? sorry but its simply not true.

Look at the quality devs, they never have been the best because they were cutting edge it was because of the games, always was always will be. dont go thinking the marketing blurb on the ass of the box actually represents what a dev thinks.

Was blizzard the god of devs back when its stable was wc1-3 sc+bw, and the 2 diablos because they were cutting edge? feck no SC got ripped for using sprites and not leaping on the polygon 3d bandwagon, same as it ever was.

Nintendo was expecting that the controller alone would sell the console,but that's not the case,touch screens are nothing new and thus nobody gets excited about it. Can the WiiU sell better in the future ? Of course it can,if it has lots of games of good quality. But the gimmick Nintendo decided to add in the system was a risk,a hit or miss,and according to the reactions of people I can say it must be a miss. Touch screen isn't so special to drive people to buy the console just for that. If the console gets some powerful AAA games,its sales will start rolling. But until then...

Most of the reasons have been stated already, but here's my take on it.

Lack of games
The Wii U's library is currently quite small and unimpressive, with hardly any good exclusives. Most of the launch titles were already available on other consoles (X360 and/or PS3), and in some cases were old releases on them. We got a Mario title at launch, but very little else comes to mind right now. I actually got a Wii U largely for Xenoblade Chronicles, a Wii game (with a tendency to kill older Wii consoles, including my own). The promise of future titles is still out there, such as the mysterious X from Monolith Soft (XBC's developers) and Nintendo's rock-solid first-party titles; but right now, they are in short supply of good exclusive titles.

Lack of Hype
Some overlap with the "lack of games", but having The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess as a launch title for the Wii was a HUGE boon for it; even if it technically still was a Gamecube title (the Wii version coming out earlier also avoided the possibility of players not bothering because they had it on the GC already). Anyhow, having a Zelda game as a launch title is hype in and of itself; it moved a lot of consoles, make no mistake about that.

Desert Punk:

Anoni Mus:
It's just a matter of games.

Worry not I bet with the Escapist 10 euros as Wii U will sell more than PS4.

PS3 and 3DS also started badly but they both picked up the train.

Desert Punk:
Because all Nintendo has to offer their Fanboys...er...consumers is Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. Until one of those drops I doubt WiiU will have many sales at all, as you can get better libraries of games, at the same looks, on older consoles or PC.

The WiiU is too close to this generation in terms of tech to make it a killer item to buy, and once the better next gen consoles drop it will be in the same position the Wii was, using shitty older tech, without the benefit of having a huge casual install base.

Why are people still talking about tech nowadays?
Do you know that I have almost all my needs covered with a Nintendo console and a PC? I have no need for PS and Xbox crap if they are the same as ever. The few games I can't buy usually don't interest me, the only exception might be The Last of Us, but I don't like shooters with classic controller, unless it's kinda easy to shoot like in Zombi U.
So yeah, while most of escapist droll over PS3 and 360 and their graphics, I'd rather have a PC for graphics and shooters and a Nintendo for the best exclusives.

Also, what does 360 has to offer to fanboys...er... consumers? Paid Online? Games I can play on my PC?

Sorry for my argumentation level being low, but I lowered to the level of this thread :)

Because higher levels of memory and processors will allow for better and smarter AI, physics simulations, less load screens and larger environments. Some people will be happy with less naturally, they are still Amish after all. But the majority want to see advances. :P

If you pay attention I never mentioned graphics. Graphics are so high at the moment that any difference between the WiiU and the PS/Durango will be mostly academic in nature to the point that the average player wont be able to distinguish between one and the other.

Personally I play PC and have a 360 only for exclusives (Which is why my 360 library consists of about 10 games and my Steam library has thousands of dollars on it lol), but I tend to think Nintendo has shitty exclusives but that is up to a matter of taste, not hard numbers like the tech involved. Though IF the durango rumors are proven true at the release, I will likely pick up the PS4 for exclusives I cant get on my PC.

Hell even the Console exclusives will likely be even less likely this next generation with so many starting to used modified PC parts.

Loading screens? It's one of the reasons I stopped playing Bayonetta, full of cutscenes and loadings. Nintendo usually has lower loadings, specially N64 due to cartridges, Wii U is the worse Nintendo console in loading times tough.

So far I haven't seen much progress in terms of AI, because developers would rather focus on graphics than AI and better worlds, maybe that'll change with the new generation.

Zachary Amaranth:

Anoni Mus:
Games I can play on my PC?

Given the tears of the PC fanbase, games that actually work when not played on PC.

All games I tried work on PC. Keyboard + mouse for shooters and a 360 controller for other games, I played AC Revelations and III on PC, same with Dark Souls even if it was considered a terrible port.

The lack of games isn't helping it. Plus what marketing the console has had makes the Wii U look like an add on to the Wii rather than a brand new console, which I think creates some confusion with some of Nintendo's Wii audience.

I have owned every major home console since the PS1 (yes, including the Saturn and Dreamcast), but I'm just not interested in the WiiU. There are a few reasons:

1. My Wii has been my least played console of this generation, and one of the major reasons is that I'm sick of Nintendo's staple franchises. A formed Zelda fan, I have not even thought about picking up the latest incarnation. Simply put, I got bored of Twilight Princess. I am bored of Mario Kart. I loved Mario Galaxy, but got bored of number 2 after a while. I still play Smash Bros with my son, but again, it is still the same formula they have released since the N64 version. I really feel that Nintendo are in a strange situation. Players like me want some of the games to take a departure from their previous iterations, but other loyal fans would be out for blood if their Mario game was too different. If there next versions are too similar to previous installments, I probably won't be interested in them.

2. Games. Where are they? Sure, there's a handful of exclusive games out for the WiiU, but no real 'killer app'. This is the issue I have with the 3DS. I bought a 3DS on day 1. Apart from spending some coin on the E-shop (and getting the free games all early adopters got for buying before the price drop), I have not bought a single 3DS game. (I have bought DS games to play on my 3DS though). There simply hasn't been a game that I've desperately wanted. I already had Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed and Batman on other systems.

3.Will there be a price drop? I previously mention that I bought a 3DS on day 1. Then they dropped the price VERY shortly afterwards. Sure, I got a few GBA games.., but that doesn't change the fact that the system could receive a price drop to stimulate sales.

4. Next Gen consoles. Considering the PS4 is now coming out this year, and industry analysts are predicting that Microsoft will announce more about Durango in April, Nintendo should be doing more to get people interested in the WiiU now, and do something about the 'current generation' stigma the console has. Many people (including myself), don't see the WiiU as next gen, unlike the PS4 and Durango.

Zhukov:

PS. Jeffers, it's the N signal!

Quick Slippy! To the Nintendomobile!

image

Desert Punk:

Exius Xavarus:

Zhukov:
PS. Jeffers, it's the N signal!

Funny, that was actually my first thought upon seeing the thread title. "Oh, boy! Time for more Nintendefense: Jeffers!"

Mine as well, I was really shocked he wasnt here already.

A Nintendofan is never late, Desert Punk. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

....except when his alarm clock doesn't go off and he oversleeps but ARGLEBARGLENINTENDONINTENDONINTENDO!

Anyways... yep, Wii U sales have been pretty crap the last two months. No denying that. However, there's a very simple reason. It's nothing to do with the Gamepad being a crap idea (it isn't), or the Wii U being outdated hardware (it's not, and I wish people would get over that)... it's simply to do with the fact that there haven't been any games released for a couple of months. That's all.

However...

I still find this hard to blame Nintendo for this for a very specific reason- between December and now, there were supposed to be two high profile game releases for the Wii U in order to bulk out its launch library. Ubisoft were supposed to be bringing out Rayman Legends in February, and Sega were supposed to be doing the same for Aliens: Colonial Marines.

For those who don't know, Rayman Origins was one of the most acclaimed 2D games of this generation, and sold the most units by far on the Wii. Nintendo gamers dig platformers. Legends had the potential to come out in February and give the system one hell of a high-profile exclusive, at a time when there wasn't a huge amount else around. Now it's going to die against GTAV and the other Q4 releases. Good fucking going there Ubisoft.

And while we all now know that Colonial Marines is a stinking turd, before release quite a few people were excited about the Wii U version. Not only was it supposed to have superior graphics, but the Gamepad was also going to function as an actual in-you-hand motion tracker. A gimmick, yes, but for Aliens fans that's one hell of an appealing gimmick. Again, the game was supposed to land this February. Yet here we are, the game's shit, and there's no Wii U release in sight, which I suppose I should be thankful for.

I get the impression that Nintendo deliberately kept January and February clear of their own games because they wanted gamers to pick up Legends and Colonial Marines. Legends at least they had a big part in marketing, as it's one of the titles they've been showing off at demo booths and trade shows around the world. As it happens, Ubisoft and Gearbox fucked that schedule in the ass, leaving Nintendo with a two month period of nothing. Nintendo aren't blameless in this (their marketing department needs a kick up the arse, and they need to get some actual release dates on their upcoming games), but this two month drought I'm blaming on Ubisoft and Gearbox. Nintendo did everything it could to accommodate them, and they fucked it up.

It's also worth mentioning that here in the UK, poor console sales may not just be down to a lack of appeal, but also to do with the fact that this man

image

has taken one of these

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and shoved it up the arse of the UK economy. We're currently in a triple-dip recession, looking at possibly falling into a depression proper. Lots of the traditional high-street entertainment shops have gone bust/closed over the last few years (HMV, Virgin, Zavvi, Woolworths). If I want to pick up games on the high street, GAME is now pretty much the only place I can go. And funnily enough, a shop like GAME doesn't have the same cross-demographic appeal that a shop like HMV does.

As someone who is now looking yet again for a new job, things here in the UK are down the shitter economy wise, and that may well be why people are reluctant to spend more money on a new console.

That being said... HMV stores are currently having closing down sales, and apparently you can now go in and pick up a Wii U deluxe set and a copy of Zombi U for 199. Even if you're not that enamoured with the Wii U's current lineup, that's one hell of a bargain, and I doubt it's going to be that cheap again for a long, long time. You're essentially getting the console for a little over 100, and two games. Worth thinking about.

Right kids, remember to brush your teeth, always do your homework, and never throw your controllers at the TV screen.

KAPWANG!

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Forlong:
Why is the Wii U not selling as well as expected?

It is selling exactly as expected. Nintendo's strong supporters came out and got one when it came out, and they had Mario to play. No one else is going to get one until there is more of a reason to, and even Nintendo knew this. Why do you think they have all those Nintendo direct videos explaining to consumers why their console will be great? Great emphasis on the will be.

No one is going to buy a console for no reason, that's why the PS3 was a brick after it's initial launch sales. There was nothing worthwhile on the PS3, it was only bought by people who were hardcore fans of Sony and people excited about getting new tech. The console-seller games just weren't there, and so it took years for the PS3 to get to where it is now. This is the pattern we are seeing with the wiiU, and likely the coming PS4.

I'm most likely repeating a lot of shit that's been said but anyway.

Games.
It's the biggest point.
There's not much out worth playing. No different than most console launches.
Ports? Yeah, no thanks. I can get those games on existing systems.
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate is out, so that should help.
And there are decent titles on the way.

New Xenoblade
Pikmin 3
Windwaker HD

It just needs time, get a Zelda or Metroid and you'll see sales pick up.
However, one of the reasons the Wii did so well is that they appealed to a different demographic.
Unfortunately, this demographic didn't buy much software. They got Wii sports and not much else.
Which explains all the damn shovelware that came out. The casual consumer base has mostly moved on.

They are either not interested, still content with their wii, think the Wii U is an add-on device, or don't know what the hell it is.

Sales are fine, it was never going to sell like the original Wii.

rob_simple:

K84:
I just hope the WiiU does'nt become Nintendo's "Dreamcast".

I would actually be quite happy for it to go that way, at the moment. Pretty much the only thing Nintendo's last three consoles have been good for is their first party titles, which were few and far between, so I think it would be better for everyone if they went the way of Sega and started releasing their IP on Sony and Microsoft's consoles.

Never going to happen.

Firstly, Sega's move to third-party publisher wasn't down to just the Dreamcast. They'd had over a decade of making consoles that simply didn't sell- the 32X, the Saturn, the Game Gear, then the Dreamcast. In fact, you could make an argument that the Genesis was the only Sega console to really do spectacularly well. All their other console releases had nowhere near the same amount of success. That's what eventually drove them third party.

Secondly, Nintendo themselves have said that the day they stop making hardware is the day they move out of the gaming business altogether.

Thirdly, Nintendo would make much less money as a third-party publisher. They wouldn't get royalty cuts from other developers, and they'd have to pay royalty cuts on even their most successful franchises (Mario, Zelda, etc) to Microsoft and Sony. Right now, they can release a game, and make all the money back from it. Why would they willingly want to start sharing their profits with their competitors. Especially considering that at this point, Nintendo is the only one of the big 3 who's been regularly posting profits. The other two have been operating on a loss basis for years.

Zachary Amaranth:

Abandon4093:

They've gone down the same rout as the PS3. It's a powerful system that they're going to have to lose money on for X amount of years. And it's still going to be expensive if they do that.

You mean...*gasp* The loss-leader method that has been standard in gaming for literally decades, and employed not only by console manufacturers but retailers and the almighty VALVE?

Yeah, even though what you've said is unproven, if true it means absolutely nothing.

Sony's rocky financials make it mean quite a bit, actually.

The PS3 blew through whatever warchest the PS1 and PS2 had saved up for Sony. The Vita is currently blowing through even more money. Sony cannot afford to take losses on a console now like they could when they released the PS3. The PS3 was coming off the back of the then-most successful console in history. The PS4 is coming off the back of a console that lost Sony billions, and cost them their place as king of the gaming hill.

Sony just had to sell-and-lease-back their American HQ in order to cook the books to make it look like they'd made an annual profit. Their current strategy hasn't made them money so far, and if it doesn't work with the PS4, it could lay waste to their finances.

Zachary Amaranth:

Abandon4093:

They've gone down the same rout as the PS3. It's a powerful system that they're going to have to lose money on for X amount of years. And it's still going to be expensive if they do that.

You mean...*gasp* The loss-leader method that has been standard in gaming for literally decades, and employed not only by console manufacturers but retailers and the almighty VALVE?

Yeah, even though what you've said is unproven, if true it means absolutely nothing.

Oddly enough, the CoD generalisation wasn't the problem. The fact that you are assuming specs not offered into evidence or that it holds any relevance to my argument does.

Just for the record, the "shinier turd" philosophy applies to Durango as well, barring something mind-blowing about the new console.

How the hell does any of that bear any relevance to what I said?

The argument was made that the PS4 will suffer because it's going to be expensive due to it's specs. All I said was that judging by the way the PS3 sold I agree. I didn't say it wouldn't eventually make it's money back, in-fact I said that that's what the PS3 eventually did.

You'll obviously get the hardcore Sony fans that would buy it at whatever price. But I think it'll see the same pattern as the PS3. Lose a lot money over the first few years and then begin to crawl ahead as the generation is coming to an end and people realise it's a better machine than Microsoft's.

I don't think I could have worded it much more inoffensively.

Are you always so needlessly defensive? Or did you just make an exception for me?

x-Tomfoolery-x:

It just needs time, get a Zelda or Metroid and you'll see sales pick up.
However, one of the reasons the Wii did so well is that they appealed to a different demographic.
Unfortunately, this demographic didn't buy much software. They got Wii sports and not much else.

Actually, this isn't quite true. The Wii actually had the highest amount of software sales this gen. Something like 830 million individual games sold, compared to around 600 million for the PS3, and similar for the 360. Moreover, the Wii (according to Google) had around 103 individual games make it over the 1 million sales mark, which is a phenomenal figure by any sane metric. Nintendo's own games like New Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart and Wii Sports Resort (I don't count the original Wii Sports as that was a bundle) each sold more than any COD this generation.

The issue wasn't that software didn't sell. It's that it wasn't the sort of software (by and large) that forum-using gamers wanted, so they ignored it. Which is weird, considering that the PS2 also had phenomenal amounts of shovelware released for it. I guess that was the advantage of releasing at a time when internet forums were still a niche thing, and the internet echo room wasn't as large.

I stand corrected. Thanks. Guess it just felt like a lot of shovelware.
Coldstone Creamery anyone?

image

Forlong:
However, this is a pattern that has emmerged in the youth of the eighth console generation. The 3DS had similar sales issues, and the Vita had them in spades. If what Sony says about PS4 specs is any indicator, this selling issue will hit it like a wrecking ball. Microsoft will fair no better than Nintendo.

I don't think you can look at the sales of things like the Wii U, 3DS and Vita not meeting expectations and apply that to the PS4 and the next Xbox. They're really different animals all together.

The 3DS had a rough start because of a lack of titles, a price that was way too high for a handheld, and some awful 3D (in addition to a few other gimmicks which have amounted to absolutely nothing of value to gaming). It got a price drop and some titles and has shipped around 30 million units now so it's doing fine. The Vita is in a similar situation as the 3DS originally was, but without the strength of Nintendo's handheld name recognition. It's too expensive and doesn't have enough titles yet, despite being an otherwise stellar piece of kit.

And the Wii U is in a strange position all around. Nintendo really had nowhere to go from the motion controls of the Wii since they were basically a dead end gimmick from the start. They also have to deal with the fact that the casual market that made the Wii sell so well in the first place has moved onto smart phones and iPads and couldn't give a shit about a new console to replace the Wii that they bought a small handful of games on if they bought games at all. Some people never went past the likes of Wii Sports and Wii Fit. So what was Nintendo's solution? Last gen hardware with a tablet integrated in the controller. The thing has no direction, it's trying to be all things to all people, and it's really nothing to anyone because of it. It's really probably just the Nintendo franchises and somewhat low price point that will bring people back, and as such, it's not seeing the success that they had with the Wii. That's kind of what happens when you get lucky last gen and hit on something that an untapped market segment will eat up before the next new thing comes along.

wintercoat:
I would like to first point out that the Wii U is still doing no worse than the PS3 did in the months following it's launch.

I would then like to point out that the Wii U is suffering from the same issue the PS3 did. That is, it has very few worthwhile games. There are a few, a couple of which will probably be high sellers, but there aren't any console movers out yet. With slim pickings, most of which are ports of last-gen games, there's very little incentive yet to buy a Wii-U for most people.

With the PS4's announcement, Nintendo could do with getting into gear and getting some games out on their new system, because come E3, I have a feeling Sony is going to come out swinging.

Most people admit that the PS3 launch was crap.

Arqus_Zed:
Many have said it before, but... Games. The are many factors, but games have always been the main reason. I see the Wii as a crappy console in many regards (not in the least the forced motion controls on so many games), but when Xenoblade Chronicles (and in lesser extend The Last Story and Pandora's Tower) hit the market, I just had to buy one. Especially since you could play Xenoblade Chronicles with a normal controller!

Same with the Wii U, the whole "tablets are popular, let's put an entire freakin' iPad in one of our controllers and just keep the retarded motion control for all the rest"-scheme didn't really impress me and there are no games to convince me.

Yet.

When Monolith Soft announced they were working on a new RPG for the Wii U, they had my curiosity.

Ever since I've seen the trailer for it, they've had my attention.

I played Xenoblade Chronicles and then I went back to play the superior version of the game, Final Fantasy XII. Sadly, Final Fantasy XII even looks better than Xenoblade Chronicles which looked like pixel soup.

So many similar responses, I'll just focus on genaric statements. No offense meant.

1: NO GA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AMES!!!
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Epic Mickey 2
New Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendo Land
Scribblenauts Unlimited
Skylanders: Giants
ZombiU
Ninja Gaiden 3
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
007 Legends
Monster Hunter 3
Need for Speed
Walking Dead

There are plenty of games that would justify millions of consoles being sold. Just not as many people are jumping on it. The tripe ports could be a factor, but I think you're missing something.

2: Not really a next gen console!
Educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U

3: Nintendo might go the way of Sega.
No. Sega was in the red for a decade. Nintendo has been to wise with investment to get in the red.

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