*Bioshock Infinite Spoilers* The Ending to Bioshock Infinite

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I was like you, at first, but then I saw the post-credits scene, where Booker was send back to a point before he sold Elizabeth, although we don't really know if she was still there or not. It ending that really makes you think. I feel if it an ending that's good, but you'll still find people who'll nitpick it. I felt it could have had more time to explain it, as it did feel that it started to get muddled under it's own science and theories that the game established. I just beat it last night, and I'll defiantly replay the game again, if for no other reason than to examine more of it's underling theme and science.

Ninjafire72:
Well first of all congrats on being ( as far as I can see) the first Infinite ending thread on this website. With how complicated the whole plot is, I wouldn't be surprised at all if more of these threads start popping up everywhere.

OT:

Sorry that became so long. Basically I'm still reeling at all the implications of this plot, and I had to vent them out somehow.

As for my opinion on the ending, I hate it. It's masterfully executed and I fully get what they're saying, but I disagree on a fundamental, philosophical level. The central premise of the ending is that a man should be held accountable for a choice he hasn't even made yet, because he could make a bad one. That idea is completely and totally antithetical to my personal philosophy, and so the ending actively made me angry.

That said, it's a fantastic story that is told phenomenally well and I'm sure I'm going to play through it at least another 4-5 times over the course of the next couple years.

Atrocious Joystick:
I get the whole ending stuff.

The one thing I don't get is, who the hell was the dead guy in the lighthouse in the beginning? At the start you figure "Oh yeah, that's kind of what the mob does." But you didn't owe any money to the mob, because that was all Booker making up memories because were there were none.

So am I to believe the Luteces just whacked some poor lighthouse dude? Because they don't seem like the whacking types. Was the lighthouse just another made up memory?

Columbia's entrance would be guarded, no? So that not anyone could get in, if they could guess the key code?

I took it that Luteces thwacked him to allow Booker to enter Columbia.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Though I disagree with the above poster's idea that the Luteces would put a bag over his head or anything. I think since Rosalind believes the mind will just create memories, they wouldn't really have to do anything.

Or Booker imagined it.

Not sure if it's come up but the reason why it looks like time travel is that comstock ages faster than the other Brookers who had never gone though the tears, one of the audiologs on the main airship explains it. I think the only time travel happens right at the end with the drowning.

Edit: Does anyone know why Brookers bandage disappears at the end?

I would have enjoyed the ending more if it was just a wee bit more conclusive (though still mysterious).
Let him see Anna, have a bird fly by the window and then have someone knock on the door as the music box stops playing.
Black screen, let the credits roll.

Pretty much a ten second extension, really.

As for whether or not I liked it...well, yes and no.
I predicted the two being the same from the beginning (partially because of the original Bioshock, partially because there's a load of subtle hints everywhere) and I figured out the multiverse explanation that they would use around the time of the gunsmith dilemma.

I think they crafted the ending rather well, but I just couldn't really agree with it.

Clever, clever stuff. Literally just finished it now and was sort of sat there mildly stunned trying to piece it all together. Loved the nod to Rapture at the end, exactly as it was at the start of Bioshock.

I know one thing, the Escapist review was right. The credits have just finished and I'm going to boot the game up again. TO STEAM!!

Judas_Iscariot:

hazabaza1:
I liked it. Bit of a mindfuck at first, but once I thought about stuff everything seemed to click. Except one thing...
why did Booker (playable Booker) go to Columbia in the first place? Did he convince himself he was hired and went to save Elizabeth? Did one of the Lutece siblings hire him? I dunno, maybe I'm missing something in my head, but I've let stuff swim about in my head and I can't quite figure it out.

JoesshittyOs:
Ahh, I am actually curious about one plot hole.

Why is Comstock apparently so much older than Dewitt?

Reborn Booker (now Comstock) lived his life until he was as old as when we see younger Comstock, and then was approached by the Lutece brother and so went into the alternate universe we play in and had time to grow even older whilst playable Booker who denied the baptism was still relatively young.

Not right at all. Comstock was aged by using the machine, it screws with your genes too.

Really?
I don't remember anything mentioning that, so I was kind of just going from a more linear viewpoint. Any part where it specifically mentions that it can age you?

hazabaza1:

Judas_Iscariot:

hazabaza1:
I liked it. Bit of a mindfuck at first, but once I thought about stuff everything seemed to click. Except one thing...
why did Booker (playable Booker) go to Columbia in the first place? Did he convince himself he was hired and went to save Elizabeth? Did one of the Lutece siblings hire him? I dunno, maybe I'm missing something in my head, but I've let stuff swim about in my head and I can't quite figure it out.

Reborn Booker (now Comstock) lived his life until he was as old as when we see younger Comstock, and then was approached by the Lutece brother and so went into the alternate universe we play in and had time to grow even older whilst playable Booker who denied the baptism was still relatively young.

Not right at all. Comstock was aged by using the machine, it screws with your genes too.

Really?
I don't remember anything mentioning that, so I was kind of just going from a more linear viewpoint. Any part where it specifically mentions that it can age you?

In one of Lutece' Audio log she explains that using the tear machine caused Comstock to become sterile and that he aged after its use. the machine has that kind of effect on humans.

phoenix352:

hazabaza1:

Judas_Iscariot:

Not right at all. Comstock was aged by using the machine, it screws with your genes too.

Really?
I don't remember anything mentioning that, so I was kind of just going from a more linear viewpoint. Any part where it specifically mentions that it can age you?

In one of Lutece' Audio log she explains that using the tear machine caused Comstock to become sterile and that he aged after its use. the machine has that kind of effect on humans.

Ah, must have missed that one.
I remember finding one when searching for Lady Comstock's ghost mentioning that he was sterile, but I never got the explanation. I guess that'll be it.

Pebkio:

Atrocious Joystick:
I get the whole ending stuff.

The one thing I don't get is, who the hell was the dead guy in the lighthouse in the beginning? At the start you figure "Oh yeah, that's kind of what the mob does." But you didn't owe any money to the mob, because that was all Booker making up memories because were there were none.

So am I to believe the Luteces just whacked some poor lighthouse dude? Because they don't seem like the whacking types. Was the lighthouse just another made up memory?

I was totally wondering about that too. Yeah, it's the only conclusion I could come up with. While Booker was forming his memories, the Luteces quickly jaunted off to brutally murder some dude (who, if you read the note on the map, was waiting to stop Dewitt), put up the bloody signs, and other things to reinforce his "memory" of being sent to collect the girl.

I admit it is odd about that dude, but when you are in Emporia and you go to the Lutece labs there is a photo of the lighthouse with big red circle drawn around it and the words "the only obstacle" written there, or something along those lines I forget already, /facepalm. But yeah that note you refer to was signed "-C" for Comstock?

I"m still going under the assumption that it was something Booker made up to cope with the different universe thing.

An assumption I made that I think is true: The Luteces do not feel guilty about Anna, they are trying to prevent instability in the multiverse. There is a audio log that speaks about how worlds do not like foreign bodies, and every "Elizabeth" is a giant instability tear-causing foreign body. The only way to prevent even further tearing and eventual destruction of the multiverse is to prevent her being transferred.

A good question to this is "What about the Lutece Twin who doesn't belong?" My answer would be that the reason Elizabeth has such a higher degree of instability is because a piece of her, her pinky, was left in another world and perhaps this existing in both worlds at once causes the tears.

When I heard about how awesome the ending was supposed to be I got really excited, then I was let down.

Who though this was a good ending? Before the game was even released, when I head the ending would "blow my mind" I though, "Oh, So I turn out to be the main bad guy, whoever he is. Maybe I turn out to be Andrew Ryan"

Also, at Booker being Elizabeth's father. This conversation should have taken place 2/3 or the way through the game.

Elizabeth: "So Comstock isn't my real father?"
Booker: "Its OK Elizabeth I'm your father"
Elizabeth: "But how do you know"
Booker: "Sweetie, if you cant see that cliche coming, you might as well die your hair blonde."

I have a question because theres one thing I didn't get: who sent DeWitt to Columbia to find Elizabeth? How does that tie in to the story in light of what you find out at the end?

Feel like I missed something/dumb.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I have a question because theres one thing I didn't get: who sent DeWitt to Columbia to find Elizabeth? How does that tie in to the story in light of what you find out at the end?

Feel like I missed something/dumb.

The short version: The male Lutece wanted to reunite Anna and Booker because he was either feeling guilty for his original involvement, or didn't want to see the most likely outcome of Elizabeth nuking the world, so he contacted Booker and pulled him through a tear into the world of Columbia. From there, Booker's mind got fried by the transition and he created the scenario he believed he was following until the end of the game.

In essence, no one sent him, his mind just manufactured that mission as an excuse to go hunting for Anna.

ToastiestZombie:
Here's how I would have fixed the ending:

The story was never about time travel. It was always about quantum flux and alternate realities. Changing the ending would've required a whole different story, as everything in the ending was hinted at during the whole game. In fact, there was NEVER time travel except in the third act.

That... Monster's Inc. styled epilogue after credits bit? Cute. I guess.

I didn't like it. Really didn't like it. I just really, really hate plot devices like parallel universes.

Shit got too bullshit when they introduced parallel universes and quasi-time travel. It worked to a point in combat and it was cool in some plot points (though when you can summon a seemingly unlimited number of mechanized patriots for no drawbacks other than not being able to simultaneously summon an unlimited number of rocket sentries, it got a bit too easy). The plot device of alternate universes or what have you feels like the story can do whatever it felt like and say 'it's magic, I ain't gotta explain that shit'. It wasn't some analogy or life lesson that I should take up, it was just... the "Would you kindly..." plot twist with less of the subtle buildup and it dumped it on you in the last twenty seconds of the game.

Really left a sour taste in my mouth. All the glory of the first few hours of the game of building up Columbia and Elizabeth-Anna before the Tears start coming was shattered in the annoying twist of "YOU ARE THE ANTAGONIST THE WHOLE TIME!" I was waiting to go back in time and do a lot of setting up the plot, like giving Booker the telegram that tells him to pick #77, or what have you, but then the game just ended. I'll replay it only for the gunplay, but gosh, I just don't want to because I hate hate hate stories that pull that alternate timeline thing. (The game won't be as playable as the original Bioshock was either - Bioshock was mostly nonstop combat, but at least 40% of Infinite is just walking around and redoing the plot.)

When the ending happened, I immediately screamed "NO JOHN, YOU ARE THE DEMONS!" and shut the game off. (Okay, I listened to the credits. Love the 20's styled music.)

Pebkio:

hazabaza1:
I liked it. Bit of a mindfuck at first, but once I thought about stuff everything seemed to click. Except one thing...
why did Booker (playable Booker) go to Columbia in the first place? Did he convince himself he was hired and went to save Elizabeth? Did one of the Lutece siblings hire him? I dunno, maybe I'm missing something in my head, but I've let stuff swim about in my head and I can't quite figure it out.

JoesshittyOs:
Ahh, I am actually curious about one plot hole.

Why is Comstock apparently so much older than Dewitt?

Reborn Booker (now Comstock) lived his life until he was as old as when we see younger Comstock, and then was approached by the Lutece brother and so went into the alternate universe we play in and had time to grow even older whilst playable Booker who denied the baptism was still relatively young.

That... or the stresses founding and running a floating city and a religious cult just plays hell on your hormones.
Or maybe he looked into the Heart of the Tar...ear machine and aged 60 years.
Or growing a beard that big and full just take all the life out of you.
Or young Booker moisturizes.

:P

Ultratwinkie:

There's a problem: Comstock created Elizabeth.

Which means if Comstock never existed, then neither did the deal that created her and by extension the route that led up to his demise. Which means the cycle restarts, because you can never break a cycle, only changes what happens.

Comstock doesn't exist, then neither does the luteces and their experiment, which means Elizabeth doesn't have the ability to erase or create. Allowing comstock to exist, because the event that made his choice null was in turn nullified.

Firstly, even if such a paradox were to have existed, the Luteces would continue to exist, because they aren't a part of any specific universes anymore, they seem to exist above the 4th dimension now. So any changes there wouldn't even cause them to flinch.

Yes, that's the paradox everyone is going on about. I'd agree, but they didn't go back in time to change anything. They didn't change time, they removed the possibilities. There's a difference... Instead of a repeating cycle, the cycle never ever happened. There's nothing they have to prevent, no Comstock to have to stop, no Elizabeth with the powers of the Luteces, no deal Dewitt made. Elizabeth isn't needed to exist to make sure she drowns Booker because there was no time he went to go get baptized. There never was that event and the story we watched was just an event so anathema that it blinked away into nothing and never happened.

Sure, it's kinda silly, but it wasn't a self-destroying paradox thing.

Removing possibilities is like trying to hit ghosts, and destroy heaven.

Its impossible, because to do so you need pure mysticism and magic. Which isn't a very good way to go about a story that didn't have any of that before. They took out comstock before he did anything, and that's a fact. Which means he wouldn't set up the scenario where he is destroyed, either which nullifies any attempt to break the circle.

The luteces still got their powers from comstock too, because it was his funding that made the machine. His funding and later murder attempt that allowed them to gain their powers.

No funding, no machine, no powers. No way to destroy comstock.

You are thinking of it as time travel, but it isn't.

Imperfect Analogy Time: There is a being of electricity plugged into the wall, this power sustains not only him but his corporal form. If he unplugs himself, he not only "Turns off" but his corporal form vanishes. He unplugs himself. This does not create a paradox, because he existed at the moment he unplugged himself: The fact that he no longer does is immaterial.

There is a diagram in the Lutece house which sheds a lot of light on this, it is a switch board of lights arranged in a branching diagram, and if the root light turns off all of the lights that follow that branch turn off as well.

Ask me again if I did a bad job explaining this, I can try to elaborate, I just don't want to talk you to death.

I just want to know if Columbia is a real place or not, and how in the name of god did Comstock create it.

FallenTraveler:
I just want to know if Columbia is a real place or not, and how in the name of god did Comstock create it.

It's real in Comstock's universe, but not Booker's. Lutece discovered a type of particle that made it possible (I think Elizabeth mentions it at one point).

The only part I'm struggling with is how drowning Booker solved anything, and didn't just create another universe.

OK, here's my analysis of the last bit of the ending, as well as the post-credits sequence:

That might be a point actually the story Restarts itself but this time the Luteces' don't exist in any timeline meaning it takes a different path.

I won't touch on the theories or explanations others have made. I will say that the majority of the game was nothing less then genius. Moving, exciting, endearing, captivating and a dozen other accolades I might be forgetting. However, I can not lie and say it was 100% perfect, at least for me. The ending, I feel, really did tarnish the entire experience. I will concur that it ties into the overall story and, from many perspectives, you can see why Levine chose to end it as he did.

But the fact that Booker dies and everything, effectively, ceases to be really irked me. While the epilogue clip hints at Booker and Anna (Liz) being together in another time/place it still really burned me that they had to die at all. Honestly this whole new obsession with killing protagonists for the sake of "poignancy" or "artistic integrity" is something I'm growing rather disgusted and frustrated with.

Mass Effect 3 used this and it (for some) destroyed the entire narrative and made every pain and sacrifice meaningless. The Walking Dead beat us over the head with "tragic deaths" and capped it off with killing the main character. And, now, even Ken Levine decided to jump on the bandwagon with Booker and Liz despite giving us the choice of a happy ending in Systemshock and Bioshock 1.

Now am I saying "sad/everyone dies endings" should be removed from games? No, because some people do prefer loss at the end of a good story. I do, however, feel that the other side of the coin should be offered as well. Give the gamers a means to be the Hero *and* live. Some might argue, "Dude, Booker and Liz *do* live..." as previously mentioned.

However, due to the game's narrative concerning Multiverses and the fact that Booker is young again with a baby Anna it's really *not* them, at least not the same Booker and Liz we've spent many, many hours with. Disappointing enough that Liz turned out to be Booker's daughter (made some of the close moments they share in the game somewhat disconcerting...) but then they are, effectively, reunited and then die only to, what? Be manifested in another Universe/Timeline with no memories of what happened?

Yeah...Still, as said, the game is genius but far from perfect due to it's ending (again, just my opinion). Infinite was a pre-order for me and I grabbed it at the Midnight launch but, if Infinite is an indication of the kind of endings Levine is going to give to his future games (seemingly along with everyone bloody else) then next time around I'll wait to see how things go. So, amazing game, not so great ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4cWPKRhwIc

OH MY GOD THIS SONG IS PRACTICALLY THE PLOT OF THE GAME

Will the circle be unbroken = the looping of Booker's life
do you like the Hymns they taught you or are there songs other of your choice? = the religious aspect of both Booker's and Elizabeth's life, accepting religion or rejecting it.
There's a better home awaiting in the sky = kinda obvious...
In the days of childhood they talked of wondrous love = the stealing of Elizabeth.
Spoke of a dying saviour = Booker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODAOHNq5M6I

EVEN MORE IN THIS
Oh dear god, I'm in tears.

One by one their seats were emptied
One by one they went away
Now there family is parted
Will it be completed, one day?

The final scene of the game.

dunnace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODAOHNq5M6I

Just jumping in to say that I fucking love that Troy Baker actually did the guitar for that bit. He seems like a damn cool guy.

Guys, I'll tell you one thing I noticed during my second playthrough: Booker was able to use the bathysphere in Rapture. I didn't remember the first time, but it had come out through the recordings that Andrew Ryan had encoded all bathysphere travel to his DNA... 'tis why Fontaine needed Ryan's own son. But since Dewitt could also use the bathysphere... there must be some relation.

I also finally found all the xenophones (or whatever), one of the last two was the female Lutece commenting on how quickly Comstock was aging. She also had guesses but never got around to finding out for sure.

I still assert that there is no paradox. If they did time travel, they would have changed the past and erased themselves from existence... therefore they would be unable to change the past. But they didn't do that. They didn't go into the past or change the past. Dewitt even asked why they went back to the same place and Elizabeth told him that they didn't.

"Okay, so, it's like a paradox anyway," your argument might go, "because Elizabeth erased herself by erasing the event so she couldn't have erased the event that caused her." Good point, so go ahead and follow through on the point by explaining how a bunch of Elizabeths drowning Dewitt in the not-past erases the event. Perhaps you should stop being so unyielding on the fact that Elizabeth erased the event. As far as I can see, she didn't. That's right, Elizabeth drowning Dewitt didn't erase the event. And the Luteces weren't even there, so they didn't erase the event either.

"So what did?" you might ask. Well... it's not really explained at all, so I can't tell you for certain. I still assert the anathema idea: Once Dewitt knew the truth, he was willing to do anything to make sure it didn't actually happen. His sacrifice by drowning cemented that willingness as a fact that influenced him even before he had the choice to be reborn... because he made this sacrificial choice while within the 5th dimension. He was resolute to never let Columbia happen to his daughter, so he never did, even though his past self wouldn't really understand. In essence, the events seen in the game were so anathema to reality that reality itself made sure they never happened.

The ending is actually pretty simple.

At the baptism after Wounded Knee two bookers were created. One that accepted baptism and became Cornstock and one that didn't and went on to be the father of Anna.

At the end of the game the booker the didn't accept it went back and became the pre-baptism Booker (that is a Booker that could become either) and allowed himself to be killed thus preventing Cornstock and the events of the game from happening, ever.

However something most people don't seem to have copped is that the Elizabeth we know, the main one, DOESN'T disappear when the others start too. Re-watch the ending, tell me if you see her fade out. She uses what little power she has left to set Booker back on the path of being Anna's father.

Or it is all a drunken dream. Your choice.

Everytime I trace the events, it always ends up being the Twins fault. Then again I can't be mad at them since they were the coolest characters. And when you ride the gondola and you see Robert painting, I think it's Andrew Ryan which would be neat.

While I'd gotten the gist of the whole thing, I didn't really understand the ending overall, before I read a few other explanations(not here).

To me it was a failure.
There were a few points where both characters could turn around and just let it all go instead of wallowing in their guilt. I never got why Booker didn't just say "screw this", leave the girl and grab an airship with all the loot he could find and go to the opposite side of the world, flee from his debt. His motivation is not good enough and he's way too fixed on this being the only solution, while at the same time he's extremely jaded and ignores the fantastic city he's come to(and later he scoffs at the notion of an underwater city trololol).

The failure is my own, I didn't connect all the pieces at the end and ignored the quantum entanglement theory which explains why his death would have any impact on ALL the other dimensions.
It's not a bad ending, but it left me dissapointed and with a fatalist feeling.

Thinking back, the duality through the game was clever.
Two sides of a coin.
A pendant with a cage, the other with a bird.
Fitzroy and Fink or Comstock.
The fact that Booker and Comstock are the same person was hinted at earlier as well with the two dolls Duke and Dimwit, "Don't be a dimwit", one representing Comstock, the other Booker.
I'm sure there were more hints.

I didn't really understand it at first, but then again I don't watch a lot of stuff that deals with alternate universes. Now I get it though, and I really don't see why lots of people are getting super angry over it. It's almost impossible to create a perfect alternate universe story with absolutely no holes in it whatsoever, and for a Bioshock game it's more about the overall experience anyway. As far as that goes, I was greatly entertained. I've only just finished the game and I definitely want to have multiple playthroughs. I'm gonna use my guide to find every audio log this time to fill in more pieces of the story.

Crayzor:

FallenTraveler:
I just want to know if Columbia is a real place or not, and how in the name of god did Comstock create it.

It's real in Comstock's universe, but not Booker's. Lutece discovered a type of particle that made it possible (I think Elizabeth mentions it at one point).

I remember that, I still don't understand what's what. Is Booker constantly going into tears when he dies? What age is booker? I have way too many questions.

Damn you multiverse theories.

Smilomaniac:
I didn't connect all the pieces at the end and ignored the quantum entanglement theory which explains why his death would have any impact on ALL the other dimensions.

Elaborate, please. I still canīt piece it together despite reading through this thread and more. My own explanation is that his death changes the outcome of every universe because heīs being killed in each of them simultaneously (which is why there are so many versions of Liz present). That explanation doesnīt make much sense though. Iīm desperately trying to understand and like the ending because the game is just so damn good but I canīt help but feel a bit disappointed as well. There have been a few too many games of late with similar twists at the end that completely turn everything you expected to happen on its head. Mass Effect 3 (although much, much worse is its execution) and Alan Wake come to mind.

I can see itīs a good ending, but I wouldīve much preferred it if they had focused more on the relationship between Booker and Liz, making that the center of the story instead of going all string theory on us.

Oh my God i think i figured it out. After finishing the game i wanted to watch some reviews just to get other opinions on the game and the in one (The Adam Sessler one) he mentions the idea that the game brings up the gaming medium as a whole and i thought about it.

AND i figured it out. When Elizabeth shows us all the lighthouses and the alternate version of herself and Booker she says a line "These are all different oceans but they all end at the same dock" (maybe not exactly how it goes but about that).

These alternate worlds aren't just different universes of the game-world. THEY ARE DIFFERENT GAMES THAT WE AS PLAYERS ARE PLAYING. Every games of Bioshock Infinite that we play is a new world (ocean) and we ultimately all end at the same point when we finish the game (the dock). Our oceans are different because we all have different experiences in our game, different reactions, upgrade choices, skill, etc.

Through that it all makes sense at the end. The universes are simply copies of our game and thus eventually we (the players) will all have Booker die at the focal point where he either becomes Booker or Comstock.

THIS IS GENIUS

OR

IM INSANE....you decide =p

Robot Number V:
OK, here's my analysis of the last bit of the ending, as well as the post-credits sequence:

its possible and i certainly agree the lutece's are doing this purely for science's sake . the big problem is they dont go back in time and prevent her birth they go outside of dimensions and make a sacrificial choice, the science is out the window at the end were balls deep in symbolism and mysticism at that point.

Also the code for the lighthouse is 122, and the number of trials of heads/tails is running at 122 so i think they are jumping from one booker to the next to find one that plays out fractionally different and does end it.

I liked the ending but at the same time I didn't like the ending mainly because of one thing.

There were also some things I didn't really understand as well. They aren't big things but things I would have liked seen to be talked about or explained. Caution: Story Ending Spoilers.

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