Doom 4 in trouble, ID could be closed

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http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a470276/doom-4-recently-rebooted-by-id-software-rage-2-scrapped-by-zenimax.html

Doom 4 has seen a troubled development while RAGE 2 has been cancelled, according to a report.

The long-awaited Doom sequel, which was first announced five years ago in 2007, was was rebooted in late 2011 after three years in development.

"An earlier version of Doom 4 did not exhibit the quality and excitement that id and Bethesda intend to deliver and that Doom fans worldwide expect," a Bethesda spokesperson told Kotaku.

"As a result, id refocused its efforts on a new version of Doom 4 that promises to meet the very high expectations everyone has for this game and this franchise.

"When we're ready to talk about the Doom 4 id is making, we will let folks know."

Sources have told Kotaku that years of mismanagement and a lack of communication had left developer id Software and Bethesda's parent company Zenimax frustrated by the game's progress.

Intended to be a reworking of Doom 2 - similar to how Doom 3 was inspired heavily by the original Doom - the project soon became highly cinematic and scripted in nature, being given the nickname 'Call of Doom' by developers.

Staff familiar with the project said it featured "pointless and contrived shooting galleries" and "obligatory" vehicle sequences.

As RAGE finished development in late 2011, id Software switched focus to Doom 4, which had been neglected in previous years.

"I kinda think maybe the studio heads were so distracted on shipping RAGE that they were blind to the happenings of Doom, and the black hole of mediocrity [the team] was swirling around," said one source.

Another said: "[Studio leadership was] coming over and looking at Doom 4, and it was like, 'Now that I'm actually looking at this after ignoring it for three years, I see a ton of things I want to change'."

Around the same time, RAGE 2 was in the planning stages, but Zenimax executives soon intervened, cancelling the project and downsizing DLC for the original game.

In 2012, id Software saw a renewed focus, cancelling other projects and getting everyone to work on Doom 4, with Zenimax executives saying the project "can and should be as big as Skyrim" in sales and cultural impact.

While morale for the project - which saw a new focus creatively and technically - was initially high, it had soon degenerated into a "power struggle" between multiple teams and cultures within id Software over its direction.

The reboot's story was "unfit for a late night sci-fi channel", said one source, while others said several "top" developers had left or were let go from the company.

Sources said that Zenimax gave id Software the ultimatum of finishing the project "or else". While one said that closure of the developer was an option, others said that was unlikely.

The rebooted Doom 4 project is reported to still be in development for next-generation systems with no release date, but one source was optimistic about its future.

"They'll keep Doom 4 going. They really believe that if they can get the internal strife and disorganisation ironed out, Doom 4 has a lot of value," they said.

When you've spent probably upwards of $70 million on a developer and several years later are yet to see a significant return on that investment I can understand considering the nuclear option. I hope Doom 4 sees the light of day but this could turn into another DNF/Prey 1&2 situation.

The game industry people. Everything's totally fine. Nothing to worry about here. Nope, nothing at all, everything's in tip-top shape...

After Doom 3, I imagine Doom 4's the sort of game which would either make a shitload of money or force id to close shop. Doom 3 didn't exactly get a stellar reception, but it's still been long enough since it came out that expectations will be somewhat on the higher end for 4. Unless id have got a game that can match about ten year's worth of hype and expectation, there are going to be a lot of upset Doom fans.

That said, Metroid Prime had one hell of a troubled development period, and that game turned out stellar, so Doom 4 could still be awesome.

That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

Lucasarts was closed today too. What the fuck is happening!
Also, really pissed at Disney now...

I'm conflicted. "Call of Doom" sounds awful and I'm glad that's been knocked on the head. On the other hand I really want to see a good next-gen Doom, though I'm not sure if the things I love about the originals - giant levels, tons of enemies, freedom to explore - could be replicated with modern visuals without it making my pc explode.

There's really no FPS I can think of that delivers a real Doom-like experience. Serious Sam gets mentioned a lot but that's really all about circle strafing waves of enemies in an arena-like environment, as was Painkiller. Not really the same thing.

Assassin Xaero:
That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

I think the issue here is that for some reason id didn't put their top guys on Doom 4, and decided to make it a B-team project. This is the game series that practically invented the FPS genre. That shouldn't be the sort of series you pass over to the interns while you focus on your sorta-Fallout knock off instead. I'm not surprised development wasn't doing too well if they passed it onto the interns to focus on.

mitchell271:
Lucasarts was closed today too. What the fuck is happening!
Also, really pissed at Disney now...

Its called high rates of unemployment amongst the under 25s. Normally the under 25s have fairly high disposable incomes, however the rates of under 25s unemployment is over 50% in parts of the eurozone. Plus incomes have been squeezed by below inflation pay rises for the last 5 years or so. People can't afford to buy as many games per year as they once did.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

Assassin Xaero:
That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

I think the issue here is that for some reason id didn't put their top guys on Doom 4, and decided to make it a B-team project. This is the game series that practically invented the FPS genre. That shouldn't be the sort of series you pass over to the interns while you focus on your sorta-Fallout knock off instead. I'm not surprised development wasn't doing too well if they passed it onto the interns to focus on.

RAGE was announced back in 2007, who knows when it started. Doom 4 was announced a year later. What I heard was that they had them finish up RAGE then shifted everyone to Doom 3. So, they were probably just trying to get the first one they started out, then work on the more recent one.

Hell up to this point I was just amazed they kept getting payed for something because their last project really weren't worth a damn in my book, somehow they even managed to make Doom 3 worse in the latest release...

Best of luck to them but I really can't imagine them improving in coming years.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
The game industry people. Everything's totally fine. Nothing to worry about here. Nope, nothing at all, everything's in tip-top shape...

Oh Jeffers. We've all heard your durm und strang regarding the hypothetical imminent gaming crash. We don't need to revisit it in every single thread that even tangentially touches on the subject.

Developers go tits up all the time. In the mid to late 90's it was all about Origin, Bullfrog, Black Isle, Interplay, Microprose, Looking Glass, etc, etc. Where are they now? Must've been a gaming crash.

ID hasn't done anything worth talking about in like, a decade or more. Could THAT have something to do with them being on the ropes? Food for thought.

Fraggy1:
Intended to be a reworking of Doom 2 - similar to how Doom 3 was inspired heavily by the original Doom - the project soon became highly cinematic and scripted in nature, being given the nickname 'Call of Doom' by developers.

being given the nickname 'Call of Doom' by developers.

'Call of Doom'

Reading that part gives me nightmares worse than trying to play Plutonia on nightmare. Though I can say good on ID for recognizing that just pumping out some shit clone would be a bad idea, I don't feel all too confident they even know how to bring Doom 2 to the modern age from 1995 without it leaving behind some of the stuff that made it so awesome. At least if it fails, I still have Brutal Doom to fall back on.

...Now that I think about it, just show Brutal Doom to the development team, shove their faces in it and tell them "LIKE THIS BUT BETTER."

The industry is going through a REALLY rocky phase right now isn't it?

BloatedGuppy:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
The game industry people. Everything's totally fine. Nothing to worry about here. Nope, nothing at all, everything's in tip-top shape...

Oh Jeffers. We've all heard your durm und strang regarding the hypothetical imminent gaming crash. We don't need to revisit it in every single thread that even tangentially touches on the subject.

Developers go tits up all the time. In the mid to late 90's it was all about Origin, Bullfrog, Black Isle, Interplay, Microprose, Looking Glass, etc, etc. Where are they now? Must've been a gaming crash.

ID hasn't done anything worth talking about in like, a decade or more. Could THAT have something to do with them being on the ropes? Food for thought.

First off, Origin and Bullfrog didn't just go tits up, they were sucked dry and discarded by a monolithic corporate vampire. Their demise was less to do with economics, and more to do with the fact they'd already been absorbed ino a larger company which simply didn't care to adapt to their style of game development, and shut them down out of convenience. Same with Westwood. Same with Pandemic.

Secondly, there's a world of difference between small independent developers going out of business in the 90s, when gaming was a niche medium, and large scale companies posting losses, being threatened with closures and going out of business now, when gaming is ostensibly the most profitable entertainment medium in the world. EA were posting profits back in the 90s. They're not doing so now, and haven't been doing so since 2008. Ubi have been posting losses since 2010. In fact, I dare you to find me a large scale game company that's not Activision or Nintendo which isn't currently posting losses, cutting staff or generally trying to weather through shitty economics.

A gaming crash isn't when a few developers go out of business. A gaming crash is when the industry is no longer able to sustain itself based on the economy of the time. The Crash of 83 didn't stop gaming dead. In fact, gaming carried on just fine in Europe and Japan. What it did was reduce the gaming industry of that time from an industry worth billions to an industry worth a couple of hundred billion. Why? Because the economics of the industry were unsustainable.

We're already seeing the industry engage in practises that are unsustainable in the long term- annually milking franchises, screwing customers for every penny they can, engaging in anti-consumer activities, etc. We can also see that the economy of the industry as it is currently is unsustainable. Most of the major players are posting losses. In the case of companies like Sony, they're posting quite major losses. When you've got unsustainable business practises and unsustainable losses, then without some kind of industry turnaround in future, it's only logical to assume that something's got to give in the near future. No company, be they as rich as Microsoft, can post losses forever, and no company can keep screwing its customers over indefinitely before they eventually drive themselves out of business.

Are we going to see a crash quite as bad as 83? Perhaps not. But are we going to see a period where the whole house of cards comes crashing down, and the current publishers are swalloed up by their own unsustainable practises? Abso-fucking-lutely. It happened with the banks, it happened with the housing market, there's no reason it can't and won't happen to game companies. Only videogame characters get the 1UP, not the companies that make them.

And regarding id- Considering that they've made some of the most successful, influential games in the history of the medium, I'd damn well hope that they'd be able to take time inbetween releases. I may not have been particularly enamoured with Doom 3 or RAGE, but a company as prestigious as id should easily be able to take 10 years to make a game if they want, given their past successes. No-one expects Blizzard to fail in the lifetime between their game releases, because they know Blizard have such phenomenal success in the past to be able to fund extended development. Reception to Rage be damned, id are one of the most important companies in the industry, and based on past successes alone they should be able to take as long as they want to make their games.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

BloatedGuppy:
Oh Jeffers. We've all heard your durm und strang regarding the hypothetical imminent gaming crash. We don't need to revisit it in every single thread that even tangentially touches on the subject.

Rant

Damn it Jeffers, what did I just say?

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
We're already seeing the industry engage in practises that are unsustainable in the long term- annually milking franchises, screwing customers for every penny they can, engaging in anti-consumer activities, etc.

You have convinced yourself of an imminent crash because you WANT there to be an imminent crash. You view it as karmic retribution for all the unsavory business practices you disapprove of.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Reception to Rage be damned, id are one of the most important companies in the industry, and based on past successes alone they should be able to take as long as they want to make their games.

Maybe 10 years ago. ID have not been relevant in a very long time.

Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

BloatedGuppy:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

BloatedGuppy:
Oh Jeffers. We've all heard your durm und strang regarding the hypothetical imminent gaming crash. We don't need to revisit it in every single thread that even tangentially touches on the subject.

Rant

Damn it Jeffers, what did I just say?

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
We're already seeing the industry engage in practises that are unsustainable in the long term- annually milking franchises, screwing customers for every penny they can, engaging in anti-consumer activities, etc.

You have convinced yourself of an imminent crash because you WANT there to be an imminent crash. You view it as karmic retribution for all the unsavory business practices you disapprove of.

You think I want the industry to crash? You think the inner-child in me wants to see the likes of Sony, Squaresoft, Insomniac, Ubisoft and co go up against the wall? Fuck no.

The problem I have is that the industry has become such a bloated mess that some sort of contraction is simply inevitable. Look at Square-Enix, and the sales for their latest games. Sleeping Dogs, over one million. Hitman, over two million. Tomb Raider, over 3 million since it first released. By any sane metric, those should be good figures. And yet each of those games failed to live up to the sales expectations Square-Enix had for them.

Let me state that again- Tomb Raider 2013 had the single best launch of any game in the franchise's history, sold over 1 million copies in two days, is probably the biggest seller so far this year, and it still failed to meet Square-Enix's sales predictions.

When you've got stuff like this happening with greater and greater regularity in the industry, how can you think it's in anything other than terminal decline? I'm honestly interested to know where your blind optimism for the industry comes from, considering that every bit of info I've read has shown the industry's finances to be heading down the crapper.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
Reception to Rage be damned, id are one of the most important companies in the industry, and based on past successes alone they should be able to take as long as they want to make their games.

Maybe 10 years ago. ID have not been relevant in a very long time.

When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

The next gen consoles pushing up development costs cant help. Quake 2 (the gloom and action quake mods in particular) was my first experience of online gaming and I loved it, even on a 56k modem.

Ive not bought anything theyve made for a number of years but this is still sad news.

BloatedGuppy:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
The game industry people. Everything's totally fine. Nothing to worry about here. Nope, nothing at all, everything's in tip-top shape...

Oh Jeffers. We've all heard your durm und strang regarding the hypothetical imminent gaming crash. We don't need to revisit it in every single thread that even tangentially touches on the subject.

Developers go tits up all the time. In the mid to late 90's it was all about Origin, Bullfrog, Black Isle, Interplay, Microprose, Looking Glass, etc, etc. Where are they now? Must've been a gaming crash.

ID hasn't done anything worth talking about in like, a decade or more. Could THAT have something to do with them being on the ropes? Food for thought.

Thanks Guppy now I don't really need to add too much to this thread since this is pretty much what I was gonna say anyway. All id has done since Doom 3(RAGE was medicore I don't care if you really like it, it was a deeply flawed experience at best) is slag off consoles and stroke the ego of the PC master race without actually doing anything, now I'm a PC gamer an a console gamer and if thats all a developer does then yeah, fuck 'em, they can go tits up, all they've done is divide gamers without contributing a damned thing.

Oh and Lucas Arts. Medicority since what 2004?

I'd do the same thing were I disney and since I'm here, I'll cover creative risk: Disney owns Marvel, The Avengers happened. Shared continuity across comic book universe in cinema. If that isn't a creative risk I don't know what is.

Sixcess:
I'm conflicted. "Call of Doom" sounds awful and I'm glad that's been knocked on the head. On the other hand I really want to see a good next-gen Doom, though I'm not sure if the things I love about the originals - giant levels, tons of enemies, freedom to explore - could be replicated with modern visuals without it making my pc explode.

There's really no FPS I can think of that delivers a real Doom-like experience. Serious Sam gets mentioned a lot but that's really all about circle strafing waves of enemies in an arena-like environment, as was Painkiller. Not really the same thing.

So you want circle strafing in a corridor maze?

Try Hard Reset, it's a little less open compared to Painkiller.

As for the current bout of lay-offs and closures, well that happens when a unsustainable industry wobbles.

It's id not ID.

Non-capitalized because id lower case i looks better than I which can be confused l. And the second letter isn't capitalized because no one capitalizes the letters in the middle of the word, that makes no sense. id is from the latin word for 'thing,' as in the id, ego and the superego. It is not a reference to identification cards.

Also creating a doom sequel that people like should honestly not be that difficult. Create a ton of enemy types, a bunch of powerful guns and then let the player run really quickly through crowds of demons gunning them down. I guess Carmack is too busy with Armadillo aerospace to give a shit.

I'd rather see no Doom 4 than the 'Call of Doom' described above. Is it so much to ask to have huge sprawling levels that you explore at your own rate? Instead of just everything being linear? As well as the monsters already existing on the level for the most part. That is really all I ask from a Doom game. It is something I haven't seen in a shooter in some time.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
When you've got stuff like this happening with greater and greater regularity in the industry, how can you think it's in anything other than terminal decline? I'm honestly interested to know where your blind optimism for the industry comes from, considering that every bit of info I've read has shown the industry's finances to be heading down the crapper.

Blind optimism? Because I mildly chide you for your rampant doomsaying, I'm a blind optimist now? Leave us not descend into this mudslinging. It is beneath you.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
When you make DOOM and Quake, I'm kinda of the opinion that you can not make anything relevant the rest of your career, money still shouldn't be an issue. When was the last time the Rolling Stones had a relevant album? Yet there they are, millionaires every last one of them, and still selling out stadiums around the world.

If making a hit game, or a historically relevant game, gave you infinite time and money and infinite forgiveness for dubious followups, a lot of fine studios would still be with us. Doom 3 was a mediocre game. RAGE was a mediocre game. We are many, many years removed from the impact of Doom and Quake, and they are no longer leading the charge when it comes to engine design.

We can be sad about it and remember them for the good things they did long ago, but I say again...ID has not been relevant for a very long time. The industry has passed them by.

Mycroft Holmes:
It's id not ID.

Non-capitalized because id lower case i looks better than I which can be confused l. And the second letter isn't capitalized because no one capitalizes the letters in the middle of the word, that makes no sense. id is from the latin word for 'thing,' as in the id, ego and the superego. It is not a reference to identification cards.

See? This is how irrelevant they've become. I can't even remember how to spell their name.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
No-one expects Blizzard to fail in the lifetime between their game releases, because they know Blizard have such phenomenal success in the past to be able to fund extended development. Reception to Rage be damned, id are one of the most important companies in the industry, and based on past successes alone they should be able to take as long as they want to make their games.

Blizzard a really bad comparison, Blizzard has two infinite money machines in Warcraft and Starcraft, games that continued to generate income for over a decade, not even counting that MMO. Only Valve truly compare to Blizzard in that their ability to generate revenue isn't directly and completely tied to their next release being a success.

There's a saying in sport that you're only as good as your last resul, Id should be very aware of that statement right now.

Regardless of Quake, Enemy Territory, Doom or Wolfenstein their last two releases were Doom3BFG and Rage, neither being what you'd call mega hits. What they're doing no doesn't even stack up to the competition, never mind their own past. Since it's Zenimax's money they're spending to make rubbish games, Zenimax is entirely within it's rights to cut them loose if it appears they're spending the money on doomed (haha) projects.

Actually to say Id has not been relevant is only a half truth at best. A good portion of the mainstream industry did not pass them by, a good portion of the mainstream industry bought IdTech 3/4/5 and simply made better games than Id has.

Id is an engine developer mostly at this point, expecting good games out of them is something of the long past and to be honest they were only "good" games back then because they were the first games of their type.

Zenimax wants an engine developer to use its legacy IP's to increase stock point value, Id would have been better served not being absorbed by anyone and simply continuing to sell their engine to better game developers.

Point in case, Quake 2 was pretty good, Half Life redefined the entire genre, and Half Life was using a heavily refitted version Id Tech 1 from the original Quake, in its original form. A better developer used a lesser version of Id's own engine to eclipse Id's own IP's.

Its not as if Id hasn't been profitable on licensing rights alone over the last twenty years, though with the proliferation of Unreal, CryEngine and Source and of course the inestimable Unity, they're probably not as relevant as they used to be.

I've always considered Id and Silicon Knights to be brother companies. They are/were headed by aggressively dickish people and its been over 10 years since either have made that one game that made their name mean something to anyone.

The only Id game I truly loved was Doom 64. Final Doom was okay, and the original Doom as well. Heretic and Hexen weren't that great. I hated Doom 3. That encompasses my Id experience.

At this point I'd like to see Doom 4, made by just about any other company. Id AND Zenimax? I'd rather see EA do a remake of Daikatana, because it might suck but at least it wouldn't be patched for a year before its playable.

None of this surprises me. I spent only a short amount of time working there, but there was a lot that frustrated me about the way the projects were managed, issues with big egos among some people who had been there for ages, and the overall culture clash between the id people themselves and Zenimax who are now in charge. It made me sad, because id was the first developer I ever knew and cared about when I was growing up.

I hope they get the game and their studio back in shape, it's one of the only big studios the Dallas area still has. :( Even if most of my friends are laid off or gone now.

Assassin Xaero:
That's a shame, id is my favorite developer. Appears that Zenimax was also why we barely got any DLC for RAGE, too. I have no idea what is going on, but this whole thing is making Zenimax look like a bunch of douches.

This is the Zenimax that sent me a letter threatening unspecified legal action against me shortly after I moved on to another job, because they found out I had made money off winning 3d art contest that led to some stuff I made being sold in the TF2 hat store. Maybe they didn't realize I was just an intern trying to work on my portfolio, but there was nothing in my contract that prevented me from taking part in what I did, and it really upset me. I still don't know how or why it happened, but to me it felt like some major greed-fueled bullying.

"The reboot's story was "unfit for a late night sci-fi channel", said one source, "

Uhm, and the original was what? Pulitzer prize literature?

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
And yet each of those games failed to live up to the sales expectations Square-Enix had for them.

Sales expectations that were likely bolstered by wishful thinking.

This is not what will hurt Square Enix. What will hurt them is what led to it in the first place, a restructuring issue known for two bloody years. Honestly, this is why you and others have been portrayed as wanting a crash. It looks like you're willfuly ignoring evidence to fit a doom and gloom scenario. It also looks like when it hits, you're gleeful about pronouncing it. They knew they done screwed up, and they predicted pretty much exactly what's happened (except game sales) and are trying to fix it. Is it enough? Maybe. Is it completely honest? Probably not. Does that mean that their projections spell doom?

Well, no.

iD software are good at one thing. Making engines. And that's all.

Their storytelling/game mechanics using their own fucking engine leaves a lot to be desired.

How come so much credit has been given to only 1 source?Kotaku really?They take a topic and spin it around like that shock site.For heavens sake they post potato competitions.

Either way Zenimax aren't stupid they wont become the new EA,ID already had independence and unless they are sitting around on their hands yeah they should build something.Since John D. Carmack II's VR project got overshadowed by oculus rift he sure will pay more attention to the company and all know that he is the choice maker.

Either way ID has to make 1 game to make a whole bucket of money.Quake arena 2 and push the e-sport angle correctly which it will happen eventually

Tom Waits' hat:
Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

Zachary Amaranth:

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
And yet each of those games failed to live up to the sales expectations Square-Enix had for them.

Sales expectations that were likely bolstered by wishful thinking.

This is not what will hurt Square Enix. What will hurt them is what led to it in the first place, a restructuring issue known for two bloody years. Honestly, this is why you and others have been portrayed as wanting a crash. It looks like you're willfuly ignoring evidence to fit a doom and gloom scenario.

And yet if problems with Square-Enix's internal structure have been known for so long, why is it only now, at the tail end of this generation that the new CEO of Squenix has announced that the company's going to be restructured? Square Enix hasn't internally developed a truly successful game in years, they pissed away pretty much this entire generation, they've been kept afloat purely by their third party offerings, and it's only now that they realise they have a problem?

If it took an entire console generation, poor sales and the sacking of their CEO for Square-Enix to realise they're in trouble, then that only goes to show how bloated, sluggish and slow to respond large scale publishers are. I've seen capsized oil tankers with better response towards calamity. Companies should be able to respond to change quickly, and large scale publishers like Square and EA have shown time and again that they're too stuck in petty corporate politics, messy financials and general bloat to respond to any new trend in the industry in anything like a time manner.

Triple-A publishers are lumbering around like dinosaurs in the wake of the meteor crash of 2008. They may not be dead yet, but their food's dying out and the climate is turning increasingly inhospitable for them. Evolution, both natural and corporate, favours those who are able to quickly adapt to change, and that is something that neither Squenix, EA, Ubisoft or others have shown themselves to be able to do. When the industry is facing economic turmoil, how is it then unreasonable, with this in mind, to assume that there may well be some company bankruptcies in the near future?

It also looks like when it hits, you're gleeful about pronouncing it. They knew they done screwed up, and they predicted pretty much exactly what's happened (except game sales) and are trying to fix it. Is it enough? Maybe. Is it completely honest? Probably not. Does that mean that their projections spell doom?

Well, no.

Are you aware of quite how much of a monumental fuck-up FF14 was for the company? This was a game which had one of the largest Squenix development budgets in the company's history. It was a game that was supposed to start recouping those costs immediately by getting players to pay subscription fees.

Instead what happened was that the game was a bloated mess, and it tanked in the absolute worst way possible. All that development money went right down the drain. The millions upon millions of dollars spent creating the game, gone up in flames.

Even worse, Squenix then had to spend more money to pretty much remake the game. Not a small amount either. They basically had to respend the entire budget of the game in order to change the game to the extent it needed to be changed in order to be playable. And to top it all off, the entire time they were doing this, they had to let players play for free, meaning they weren't getting anything to offset the monumental losses they made on the game.

Square didn't just fuck up. The fact that their Eidos offerings didn't make them money is the least of their worries. If FF14: A Realm Reborn doesn't take off in a big way, then we're talking about the biggest financial fuck up in the company's history. They're already in panic mode over their financials. If this game doesn't succeed, then that's going to be a huge problem for them. Then add the fact that they've had Nomura and his team spending six fucking years developing and not releasing Versus XIII. That's two games, only two games, and hundreds of millions of dollars sunk.

As someone who played the everloving shit out of FFIX when I was a kid, and who thinks Square's PS1 period is the single greatest run any developer has ever had, that thought doesn't make me happy. I would honestly love right now for Square to go back to making games like Vagrant Story, Legend of Mana and Parasite Eve. As it is, however, I simply don't see that happening. The old Square made money in order to make games. This new Square makes games in order to make money, and the difference is startling. If Square Enix can't get their shit together, they're done. Eidos alone can't cover the sort of money they've been throwing away this generation. And again, this sort of thing is becoming endemic in the industry.

I really, really loved the Doom games. Yes even Doom 3 (got the BFG edition...eurgh).

I would love to see a current/next gen Doom but this does not bode well for the future.

PunkRex:

Tom Waits' hat:
Games are just getting way to expensive to make these days.

I wouldn't say that, how much did Minecraft or Bastion cost?

When you get a bunch of people together to make a piece of media/art and they all want to do their own thing, including many individuals who will end up having no interaction with the finished product, shits proberly going to go tits up.

Ah yes, my bad. I didn't made it clear.
I'm talking about those big budget triple A titles.

It's like hearing stuff like Dead Space 3 needs to sell 5 million copies to be successful and how 3.4 million in a month for Tomb Raider still below their expectation.

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