If Disney greenlight a new Star Wars RPG, what should it play like?

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Action RPG? Straight up hack 'n slash but with a focus on special abilities gained on level up? (Like Alpha Protocol but fighting instead of shooting) Turn-based combat? KotoR combat?

I would want a party and the influence system from KotoR 2, with party members with you commenting on your actions and trusting you more or less based on them. And it would have the Alpha Protocol thing where negative influence isn't bad, it's just different. Preferably all major NPCs you encounter would have similar systems (ala Alpha Protocol), but that might be quite difficult.

And mission structures? The typical Bioware 1-4-1?

I would be willing to give it a try, yes. I don't see why people would be mad about Disney making it, honestly George Lucas ran out of ideas as he kept rehashing the same movies over and over again with only slightly different scenes that only the most die hard Star Wars nerds would notice.

A Star Wars RPG based off of the Disney movies could be very good if done right. Something like Kotor as I really want a Kotor 3 and not that stupid MMO they made.

It would probably be an action RPG. Somewhere between KOTOR and The Witcher. You would have force powers and actions assigned to hotkeys while one button will need to be methodically mashed in order to fight.

You'll probably fly to distant worlds and meet strange cultures. Like a civilization that takes after the age of Pirates, with spaceships that have jolly rogers on them and every town is a run-down port full of hookers and swarthy drunks. Later one you might adventure your way to a planet that is dominated by a singular gigantic tree, except the tree is made of plastic and cement.

And then your character will randomly dropped into an impromptu level designed to look and sound like "Steamboat Willie"

Overall, a magical experience.

Give it to Bethesda, let them give it the Fallout/Elder Scrolls treatment.

Open world galaxy exploration, lots of collectibles, switching between lasers and 'sabers at will, etc.

While I'm sure a Skyrim/Fallout 3 style version by Bethesda would be fun (I think they'd really nail some good plots and great RPG elements like holocrons), I'd have some worries about the combat. Jedi combat should be like it is in the prequels where it's very fluid and dynamic. However, Bethesda's combat is usually very stiff and clunky as are their wildlife behavior models.

The closest thing I've seen to what a SW RPG should be in my mind would be a combination of the theatricality of Mass Effect, the RPG "open world, non-linear" mindset behind KOTOR, and an upgraded version of combat from Jedi Outcast II. I think the whole thing would work really well in third person.

Make it like a cross of Mass Effect, KOTOR and Jedi Knight 2.

ie. fast past action combat from JK2, slow dialogue expoloration sections, and a way to control your squad easily like in Mass Effect and have them use powers on certain enemies.

If the game was made by Obsidian, then combat similar to Dragon Age or Kotor would be the most likeliest.

Personally though I would prefer if they made it more action-oriented similar to Mass Effect, with my team mates following basic instructions, but mostly doing their own thing. It would fit rather well, especially since Jedis are basically Vanguards with lightsabers and the rest relies on their guns.

Anyway everything is written in the sand right now, so there is not much to base our speculations on. (But if they give the Star Wars game to Bethesda, then I'm gonna cry. Even Ubisoft would be a better pick.)

the witcher 2, tactical combat, with a strong dialog system. it would be the greatest game ever.

MajorTomServo:
Give it to Bethesda, let them give it the Fallout/Elder Scrolls treatment.

Open world galaxy exploration, lots of collectibles, switching between lasers and 'sabers at will, etc.

YES. THIS.
At the very least make it first person. TOR looked like your generic third person MMO, as did Obsidian's Aliens demo and the Witcher (to pick a completely random example) Try shaking things up a bit with the gameplay and visuals at least, or I shan't look twice.

EDIT: Oh, and make Star Wars Battlefront 3, please. Those games were great.

WHY LIKE KOTOR?! THE COMBAT SUUUUCKED

-Cough- sorry, but in all honesty, KOTOR was a borefest due to its combat. Kotor meets JKJA combat, then i'l scream yes.

I'd like to see a sandbox RPG in the Bethesda style, with the main character being a Jedi using Rocksteady's combat engine from the Arkham games.

Most importantly the option to not play as a Jedi, that always bugged me because Jedis are either pure good or pure evil. Neither of which is interesting. As for game-play I would like party-based tactical combat like Dragon Age:Origins.

I just want an honest to god Dark Side game for a change. When was the last time that we got one of those where the Dark Side or evil storyline was the "official" one? I think it was Tie Fighter back in 1995. Every single other game that has been released for Star Wars has always made the light side option the official one, even when it is a detriment to the story. (The Force Unleashed II's dark side ending is far better than the light side one, as it actually brings closure to the tale).

AITH:
While I'm sure a Skyrim/Fallout 3 style version by Bethesda would be fun (I think they'd really nail some good plots and great RPG elements like holocrons), I'd have some worries about the combat. Jedi combat should be like it is in the prequels where it's very fluid and dynamic. However, Bethesda's combat is usually very stiff and clunky as are their wildlife behavior models.

The closest thing I've seen to what a SW RPG should be in my mind would be a combination of the theatricality of Mass Effect, the RPG "open world, non-linear" mindset behind KOTOR, and an upgraded version of combat from Jedi Outcast II. I think the whole thing would work really well in third person.

While the prequel fights were entertaining, that's not how Star Wars should be. They're called Jedi Knights, not Jedi Acrobats. If you look at Darth Vader fighting Luke then you'll see that they are basically having a regular sword fight. That's how Bethesda's combat works. Can you imagine the glitches in a Bethesda game if you had access to force jump?

BrotherRool:
Action RPG? Straight up hack 'n slash but with a focus on special abilities gained on level up? (Like Alpha Protocol but fighting instead of shooting) Turn-based combat? KotoR combat?

I would want a party and the influence system from KotoR 2, with party members with you commenting on your actions and trusting you more or less based on them. And it would have the Alpha Protocol thing where negative influence isn't bad, it's just different. Preferably all major NPCs you encounter would have similar systems (ala Alpha Protocol), but that might be quite difficult.

And mission structures? The typical Bioware 1-4-1?

I imagine it'd play like a very mediocre third-person RPG. I can already see the cartoony characters running around with their lightsabres constantly out, going through stock animations of swinging in battle until something dies.

"ME'SA NEED YOU'SA TO GO-GO AND KILL'EM TWENTY WOMPRATS!"

nathan-dts:

AITH:
While I'm sure a Skyrim/Fallout 3 style version by Bethesda would be fun (I think they'd really nail some good plots and great RPG elements like holocrons), I'd have some worries about the combat. Jedi combat should be like it is in the prequels where it's very fluid and dynamic. However, Bethesda's combat is usually very stiff and clunky as are their wildlife behavior models.

The closest thing I've seen to what a SW RPG should be in my mind would be a combination of the theatricality of Mass Effect, the RPG "open world, non-linear" mindset behind KOTOR, and an upgraded version of combat from Jedi Outcast II. I think the whole thing would work really well in third person.

While the prequel fights were entertaining, that's not how Star Wars should be. They're called Jedi Knights, not Jedi Acrobats. If you look at Darth Vader fighting Luke then you'll see that they are basically having a regular sword fight. That's how Bethesda's combat works. Can you imagine the glitches in a Bethesda game if you had access to force jump?

Fairly certain that's only because the original movies were filmed decades ago. Lucas made the prequels as well, he decided on how they fought, it's not like they had super realistic human CG and technology like they did when the prequels came about.

Smeggs:

Fairly certain that's only because the original movies were filmed decades ago. Lucas made the prequels as well, he decided on how they fought, it's not like they had super realistic human CG and technology like they did when the prequels came about.

Yeah but most starwars fans don't really care about what George Lucas wants, and the lightsabre fights work much better in the original films.

MajorTomServo:
Give it to Bethesda, let them give it the Fallout/Elder Scrolls treatment.

So you want them to disregard all established world building, completely disregard previous tones in exchange for massive explodey set pieces, and make the gameplay dumber than my cousin being hit with a box of rocks? Shoo, begone.

OP: It depends what kind of RPG they're trying to make. If they have an emphasis on multiple characters, then go with a KotOR/DA-style RTwP system. If it's just one PC, then maybe make it an action game with different character builds.

CharrHearted:
WHY LIKE KOTOR?! THE COMBAT SUUUUCKED

-Cough- sorry, but in all honesty, KOTOR was a borefest due to its combat. Kotor meets JKJA combat, then i'l scream yes.

I didn't disapprove of KotoR combat, it would be easy and all that really needed was more of a requirement to use abilities and some way of pressing those buttons (hotkeys) that's faster and more intuitive that KotoR's menu wheels. (also KotoR 2 had the better crowd control powers, which is a requirement)

I think if Obsidian did it though, they're looking to try for something more dynamic (they mentioned Arkham City a lot when talking about new concepts for RPGs)

Really I'd like for them to just make KotOR III.

We've already got a series set between Episodes III and IV...it's called The Force Unleashed and it's kinda meh. The great thing about the KotOR setting is that it's in the past so you can make up pretty much any story you want and slap it into the SW universe. Trying to stuff a game inbetween Eps III and IV just constrains the possibilities, and furthermore it's already been done with - as I mentioned - Force Unleashed.

I would want a KoTOR 3, a real KoTOR 3, not that piece of crap masquerading as a game 'experience' that can't hang onto player numbers.

As far as gameplay, something like Mass Effect's Shooting/Powers mechanics, with lightsabers and some expanded melee options. Then a giant map to explore (or since this is Star Wars and there's space ships, four or five), containing vehicles for transport and huge freaking beasties ambling about in the countryside.

Sort of like the Overlord DLC for Mass Effect 2, but on a much larger scale. Hop in hover tank, move to settlement/quest/objective/nice view you saw on the way, then story kicks in. Use ships as fast travel points for people who don't like hover tanks.

For the player character, branching advancement trees would be nice. Level up to be a Jedi, Merc, Engineer etc, give the option to periodically retrain powers to encourage experimentation and avoid over specialisation. Avoid making players pick a class at the start, that should develop as you play, if anyone here remember how Galaxies massive skill trees were before NGE, a slightly smaller version of that would be wonderful.

deathbydeath:

MajorTomServo:
Give it to Bethesda, let them give it the Fallout/Elder Scrolls treatment.

So you want them to disregard all established world building, completely disregard previous tones in exchange for massive explodey set pieces, and make the gameplay dumber than my cousin being hit with a box of rocks? Shoo, begone.

OP: It depends what kind of RPG they're trying to make. If they have an emphasis on multiple characters, then go with a KotOR/DA-style RTwP system. If it's just one PC, then maybe make it an action game with different character builds.

Lets make a quick list of explodey action set pieces in Fallout 3/New Vegas

-The (optional) bombing of Megaton
-The final battle with Liberty Prime
-Using the orbital laser in New Vegas maybe?

Are you sure you're talking about what you think you're talking about? I have never once heard people talk about set pieces in Fallout. And what exactly makes the gameplay dumb? The fact that it's in real time? The fact that it's not based on a bunch of behind-the-scenes dice rolls? The fact that (with melee weapons at least) you just mash the attack button, as opposed to pressing the attack button once and waiting?

Also, I have no clue where you're coming from talking about established world building and tones. Fallout/Elder Scrolls have some of the most 'real' feeling worlds of any game I've played. Sure they can be a bit heavy on the "ONLY YOU ARE THE SPECIAL CHOSEN ONE WHO CAN FULFILL THE PROPHECY" but you find that in about 90% of games... And you seem to be dead-set on a direct squeal to KotOR. That's not what OP was asking. They asked what we'd like to see in a Star Wars rpg.

MajorTomServo:

Also, I have no clue where you're coming from talking about established world building and tones.

I think he's talking about how Bethesda shat all over the Fallout lore.

MajorTomServo:
Give it to Bethesda, let them give it the Fallout/Elder Scrolls treatment.

Open world galaxy exploration, lots of collectibles, switching between lasers and 'sabers at will, etc.

one on condition, Obsidian does the story, gameplay and characters, while bethesda does the ads? and stick there name on the box?

Obsidian would be the better choice. and they have plans for a star wars rpg if Disney says yes.

I imagine it would be something light, for Facebook or mobile.

Or you know...they can just toss Wolverine, Darth Vader, & LeChuck into the next Kingdom Hearts & call it a day. Hahahahah.

Either the Elder Scrolls (although it would be hard to choose a planet which would be an interesting setting for the entire game) or Diablo.

BrotherRool:

I would want a party and the influence system from KotoR 2, with party members with you commenting on your actions and trusting you more or less based on them.

I absolutely, utterly 100% DESPISE influence systems- at least the way they usually play out. I'm playing through Dragon Age Origins right now and I've had to reload more saves to avoid losing influence (and the stat bonuses tied to them) with someone in mid-conversation with an NPC than because I've wiped out in battle. Morrigan gets all pissy every time we help someone, which is a shame because that's about 80% of the sidequests. Sometimes conversations will go in unexpected directions and you'll cock up your relationship with someone you never expected to because it's the only way to get what you see as a satisfactory outcome. The worst part is that you can't get round it without reloading a save and dumping the character- you rarely have the option to use a speech check or something to try and bring the upset party member round to your reasoning.

Far and away the worst systems though are in KOTOR 2 and Mass Effect 2- one that sticks in my mind was the harridan-off between Jack and Miranda that Shepard has to settle one way or the other. So far I'd been RPing the entire game, mostly going paragon but occasionally going renegade when I thought the situation demanded it. I couldn't get Miranda back on side after the fight and reading up online I found out that if you aren't sufficiently paragon or renegade you can't do anything about it. There weren't enough moral choices left in the game for me to grind my morality level up to the necessary point to pass the speech check. In the end I used a save editor and made myself 1000000% renegade, then walked into Miranda's office and screamed at her until she stopped acting like a bloody five year old.

The other one that jostled my flaps like no other mechanic was HK-47 in KOTOR 2. Now, like all right thinking people, I love HK-47, and that made the frustration all the more unpleasant. As a light-side player, the only way to unlock his jedi-killing dialog is by having him present for EVERY SINGLE INFLUENCE OPPORTUNITY IN THE GAME. If you miss one (and there's no way to spot most of them in advance) then you miss out on a huge chunk of his contribution. A lot of the characters have other issues (as a male character you can't raise influence with Visas before Brianna or she takes the huff and won't talk to you or let you train her as a Jedi, for example) and the only way to get through them correctly is to have the wiki open and alt-tab out every time you go into a new area to make sure you don't miss anything. At this point it's not role-playing any more. It's just box-ticking. Going through the motions because any other approach will cause you to miss out.

Much as one single aspect of the influence system annoyed me in Mass Effect 2, I absolutely adored the idea of every character having their own quest that you could do to get them on-side. That's great. It means you don't wind up with a "Cait Sith" type character that's just there to fill up the roster whom you never use or know anything about. I could live with in-mission influence changes, even ones you can't avoid or save before (the Jack/Miranda event occurs directly after a mission and if you didn't save after you finished but before returning to the ship -why would you- then you'll have to do that sucker again) so long as you can smooth things over with the character later, by talking it over or making them a cake or some damn thing. Hell, occasionally disagreeing with characters on missions could be made more interesting than constantly buttering them up- you know, like how actual friends and comrades behave. Just so long as there's enough leeway that you can actually dare to role play without losing the stat bonuses that keep you and yours alive.

-Nick

MajorTomServo:
And you seem to be dead-set on a direct squeal to KotOR. That's not what OP was asking. They asked what we'd like to see in a Star Wars rpg.

Basically everything before the quote can be answered with a viewing of the Fallout 3 season of the Spoiler Warning Show (yay laziness!)

Before we start talking about the quoted text, howzabout you let me form my own thoughts, otherwise you can shove your conjecture in places that the mods won't let me say.

I was referring to your brilliant idea to let Bethesda handle a Star Wars RPG, and you even went out of your way to recommend they do what they did in Fallout 3. That is a bad idea (see aforementioned Spoiler Warning Show). Also, I did answer the OP's question in the section labelled "OP:". A direct sequel to KotOR would be alright, but I'd only care for it if it was done by Obsidian.

Kayevcee:

-snip-

The Dragon Age: Origins one sounds like it sucks, influence systems should be linked to story as their primary motivator instead of stat bonuses and they shouldn't go up and down easily. Like although there are significant gameplay rewards for high influence in KotoR 2, the real advantage and reason for it is building up bonds with companions and finding out their backstories in a more natural way. Even turning characters into Jedi, whats so cool about that isn't just you can have a bunch of jedi in your party, but the idea that you've earned there trust enough that they'll let you open up all this stuff to them. It's by far the best way to deliver backstory.

And it makes sense that it's hard to influence Hk-47 positively if you're a lightside character. He despises do-gooders and loves killing, it makes his character more meaningful that he reacts to you in a way thats appropriate to his character. It makes your evil actions feel even better when HK is behind you giving you some love for doing it.

But this is where the proviso comes in that they need to add in the Alpha Protocol thing where negative influence is equally beneficial. KotoR 2's system rocks at making you feel like you've earned backstory and creating a more meaningful relationship, but where it fails is that if you don't max out influence then you're locking yourself out of content which isn't fun.

The way Alpha Protocol works is that how people treat you is different depending on your influence level. Not better for better influence, just different. They don't have companions in the same way, but for example there's one guy who if you earn enough respect for him, he might betray his employer in a critical moment. On the other hand, if you piss him off, then in your first battle with him, you can provoke him into fighting to the death and skip an entire boss fight later on.

It's fine if you have to be bad to romance HK, because thats how HK works. But what you need is to get stuff for annoying him too. Maybe if you annoy him he starts giving your lectures on his life history to try and intimidate/shame you, or it drives him to become a better fighter etc.

For the other specifics in KotoR 2. It's impossible to get Visas before Brianna so I'm not sure what you mean there. But as a male I can confirm that I maxed out influence with her in her first conversation just this week. And equally trying to raise influence with Brianna is not affected by Visas' presence but you need to be level 18 to unlock the last fight with her. There's a chance for neg rep when Visas boards, but it's easy to avoid if you realise that the Handmaiden is jealous and there's more than enough rep in the game to make up for it. In general the influence system in KotoR 2 doesn't even work like that, there are triggers that are needed to unlock each characters highest backstories, but that's on top of the influence system which is a straight +1 -1 and there are no triggers which can prevent backstory from being unlocked (well ending the game I guess)

The Mass Effect franchise doesn't have an influence system (well technically it does in ME3 but it's still so piss poor to be pretty unrecognisable). Backstory is unlocked on a timer which is pretty much the most robotic and unfeeling way to do it. It's one of the things I hate most about those games. It never feels like you romanced someone, it feels like you went down below deck and said 'yes' 4 times in a row. Congratulations relationship unlocked!

The loyalty system in ME2 is completely isolated from that system (which is stupid). I don't have a huge issue with it though, I think forcing you to choose between crew loyalty (and you can have both with high enough paragon) is an interesting choice. ME2's end mission, like ME3's story arcs is at its most boring if you're fully prepared and get auto wins. Having a crew unloyal isn't a death sentence it just forces some hard choices and clever strategies at the end of the game. Stupidness of the relationship aside I really approved of it

If there's a new Star Wars game, I'd very much like it to be an Elder Scrolls-style open-world. Or rather, open-worlds. Don't care when it's set, and I don't expect to be able to explore entire planets, but this is a Star Wars game that has yet to happen.

templar1138a:
If there's a new Star Wars game, I'd very much like it to be an Elder Scrolls-style open-world. Or rather, open-worlds. Don't care when it's set, and I don't expect to be able to explore entire planets, but this is a Star Wars game that has yet to happen.

So out of interest what are you thinking of this looking like? Would you like a Skyrim sized world cut into 4ish chunks that are different planets or would it be better to have one continuous world?

BrotherRool:

Kayevcee:

-snip-

snip

Honestly I didn't mind the influence system in origins. I quite enjoyed Morrigan disagreeing with everything I did even though I was still romancing her. I'd much rather have a companion that has their own beliefs and won't just change them at the drop of a hat.(is that the phrase? I can't remember)

Speaking of influence systems, what did you guys think of the one in Dragon Age II?

nomzy:

BrotherRool:

Kayevcee:

-snip-

snip

Honestly I didn't mind the influence system in origins. I quite enjoyed Morrigan disagreeing with everything I did even though I was still romancing her. I'd much rather have a companion that has their own beliefs and won't just change them at the drop of a hat.(is that the phrase? I can't remember)

Speaking of influence systems, what did you guys think of the one in Dragon Age II?

I like the characters disagreeing, but having it tie so heavily into stats was a bad choice. It should be a one time unlockable thing. Get to x high or low influence and y happens. Or at story points a character will do b if they hate you.

And the gift system was a bit bad. Bioware still design systems for relationships that represent about the most shallow relationship you can have. DA:O is a huge advancement over the Mass Effect franchise and KotoR 1, but having a mechanic where you buy your way into someones good books is awful.

Saying that I haven't played the games, I was just responding to how it sounds from how other people have described it. When you say/do something that gets neg/pos influence with a party member do they speak or is it a stat that pops up (like in The Old Republic). I think the idea that they speak to you whenever you please them or piss them off is important for the relationship feeling it's meant to create because I found the TOR way really didn't work for me

Anything would be nice; heck, I'd even settle for a Force Unleashed III (if they actually put more than three levels in it!), but another KOTOR style game, a Bethesda take or even something completely different (Creed with lightsabers, anyone?) would be cool. All I ask for though is:

- A good plotline with good, interesting and uncliched characters.
- A good combat system that gives a bit of feedback
- A good balance between forcepowers and lightsaber abilities (See FU and Kotor vs Jedi Knight)

No, because we have been burned by the closure of Lucas Arts already.

Vern5:
It would probably be an action RPG. Somewhere between KOTOR and The Witcher. You would have force powers and actions assigned to hotkeys while one button will need to be methodically mashed in order to fight.

You'll probably fly to distant worlds and meet strange cultures. Like a civilization that takes after the age of Pirates, with spaceships that have jolly rogers on them and every town is a run-down port full of hookers and swarthy drunks. Later one you might adventure your way to a planet that is dominated by a singular gigantic tree, except the tree is made of plastic and cement.

And then your character will randomly dropped into an impromptu level designed to look and sound like "Steamboat Willie"

Overall, a magical experience.

Hell, the Original Trilogy makes me want to go to Disney every time I re-watch it anyway. So did Jurassic Park when I saw it in the theaters Sunday night, for that matter[1]. Point being, those old practical effects have a lot in common with the animatronics used in theme parks, and older blockbusters feel like themepark rides, while newer ones feel like videogames.

Also, the first two settings sound like something right out of the OT, especially the plastic and cement tree -- sure as heck beats one made out of CGI.

[1] Oddly, that last one never did that to me until I saw it theatrically.

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