Games that punish you for doing well

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chickenhound:
the only ones i can think of have already been said mario kart, skyrim, and the L4D series

I have to say the L4D series director isnt as bad as Mario karts (its only a jerk once in awhile when you are doing well like throwing two tanks at you right at the start >:( ) but it is doubled with the the fact it is also a jerk about if you move "too slow" whats that you want to explore the cool map lol nope have a horde in your face

True, though the AI director is easy to completely bamboozle. Don't have your team play properly, just bloody leg it from the very second you start, never stop moving in the direction of the exit (blowing away the handful of zeds you actually see) and the AI Director actually can't keep up. It will barely spawn any zombie at all (nor will it spawn many items, but you wouldn't know that because you're too busy legging it to pick them up anyway). It's actually kinda sad.

The Mario Kart rubber banding hasn't changed since 64. It's fucking terrible. Programmers too ham-fisted and lazy to program an AI that is legitimately skilled enough to take on a player? Just fucking add the worst rubber-banding around. It's not even like it's well disguised, Nintendo doesn't even bother to try and conceal it. (Before anyone whines at me, yes, I do like Nintendo but that doesn't change the fact that this is pathetic crap).

Well, I think you could say the Dragon Age games sometimes do this, but in a different way.

With the whole Dark Fantasy thing the franchise has going on, there are some moments that have choices you can make that seem benevolent, but end up crashing and burning in the long run.

Want to help a Dwarven girl in going to the Ferelden Mage Circle purely for academic study on magic? go right ahead! if you want the Chantry to consider throwing an Exalted March on the Dwarves.

To be fair, I know it was intentional, but I personally find certain parts of the whole Black and Grey Morality thing Dragon Age has going for it pretty hard to swallow.

BrotherRool:
[quote="UrinalDook" post="9.406308.16905679"]
Hooo-Ly Crap, I think you just blew my mind. Though I played a bit of Medieval 2, Rome Total War is the only one I've ever actually owned. I've played it on and off since maybe a year after it came out. But are you telling me there's a reason that after a certain point in the game, it seems like my family's genes crap out and all of my family members start becoming total shits, unless they're actively marching up and down the place winning battles? Are you saying that my massive stockpile of denarii is directly responsible for city governors all being colossal, hated boobs?

Could you maybe bypass that by regularly paying a fuck-off huge tribute to Rome?

As a continuation of that discussion though, there's other ways that Rome at least (like I said, that's pretty much the limits of my experience) punishes you for doing well. It is nearly impossible to maintain frontier settlements once you hit 25 or so territories. They are all so far from your capital that no amount of decent government, entertainment, quality plumbing or low taxes can satisfy those ungrateful citizens. It's a mechanic that doesn't even make sense, so long as goods are flowing out and money flowing in, and so long as you're being treated well, why would you give a crap about how far away the patriarch that dictates to the guy controlling your city lives?

... Have I just made myself sound way too colonial there?

It's true. Over 50,000 gives your generals bad traits (or maybe 500,000 though probably the first one). Though there are ways to counter this problem as well as the settlement problem. Not cure it, but make it easier to handle.

Never get over 50,000. I like to find some weak barbarian faction, preferably one fighting a different Roman faction, and just ship them gifts of gold frequently with a diplomat. You'll get on good terms with them (which to be honest means nothing in that game) and you keep your money pool at a manageable level.

Another tip for avoiding bad traits, don't build shrines to gods of violence, wine/drinks or parties. They're usually bad gods and will give your generals traits like drunkard or Angry etc. I also tend to avoid shrines with population growth or health bonuses, especially in land which is highly or medium fertility. The % growth shoots way high if you do that.

Another tip, the quality of guard in a city makes no difference, it's the quantity. Peasants have 240 units for most factions, cost 100 upkeep and do the best job. They can easily be trained and if die mean nothing of loss. I recommend this for not front line cities, but second and inner cities. Furthermore, if that doesn't work you have to purge your city. Destroy all unit training buildings, including Colosseum and black smiths. When the city revolts it'll be full of untrained peasants and will be easy to kill. Retake the city and execute the people. Do that a few times and the city will be under your control again. Also try not to build above level 2 farms if possible. It reduces growth rate and will keep city number manageable.

FFP2:
Dark Souls!

You prove just how much of a "hardcore gamer" you are by walking forward and you get rewarded with a dragon that instakills you! It's the dictionary definition of fun!!!

/sarcasm

Actually.. the Four Kings fight is this for me. Every time I go slow and try to learn their tells, I seem to forget that it's a DPS race and they murder me brutally. So yes, the game is punishing me by attacking my method to beat the game.

(I hated that dragon too.)

OT- I guess for me it's DOTA in bot matches, where if you are somewhat good, all of the enemy bots will turn right around and start ganking you like crazy. Note to self, learn how to play better with ALL characters, not just the carries. -.-

UrinalDook:

Hooo-Ly Crap, I think you just blew my mind. Though I played a bit of Medieval 2, Rome Total War is the only one I've ever actually owned. I've played it on and off since maybe a year after it came out. But are you telling me there's a reason that after a certain point in the game, it seems like my family's genes crap out and all of my family members start becoming total shits, unless they're actively marching up and down the place winning battles? Are you saying that my massive stockpile of denarii is directly responsible for city governors all being colossal, hated boobs?

Could you maybe bypass that by regularly paying a fuck-off huge tribute to Rome?

As a continuation of that discussion though, there's other ways that Rome at least (like I said, that's pretty much the limits of my experience) punishes you for doing well. It is nearly impossible to maintain frontier settlements once you hit 25 or so territories. They are all so far from your capital that no amount of decent government, entertainment, quality plumbing or low taxes can satisfy those ungrateful citizens. It's a mechanic that doesn't even make sense, so long as goods are flowing out and money flowing in, and so long as you're being treated well, why would you give a crap about how far away the patriarch that dictates to the guy controlling your city lives?

... Have I just made myself sound way too colonial there?

It's true. Over 50,000 gives your generals bad traits (or maybe 500,000 though probably the first one). Though there are ways to counter this problem as well as the settlement problem. Not cure it, but make it easier to handle.

Never get over 50,000. I like to find some weak barbarian faction, preferably one fighting a different Roman faction, and just ship them gifts of gold frequently with a diplomat. You'll get on good terms with them (which to be honest means nothing in that game) and you keep your money pool at a manageable level.

Another tip for avoiding bad traits, don't build shrines to gods of violence, wine/drinks or parties. They're usually bad gods and will give your generals traits like drunkard or Angry etc. I also tend to avoid shrines with population growth or health bonuses, especially in land which is highly or medium fertility. The % growth shoots way high if you do that.

Another tip, the quality of guard in a city makes no difference, it's the quantity. Peasants have 240 units for most factions, cost 100 upkeep and do the best job. They can easily be trained and if die mean nothing of loss. I recommend this for not front line cities, but second and inner cities. Furthermore, if that doesn't work you have to purge your city. Destroy all unit training buildings, including Colosseum and black smiths. When the city revolts it'll be full of untrained peasants and will be easy to kill. Retake the city and execute the people. Do that a few times and the city will be under your control again. Also try not to build above level 2 farms if possible. It reduces growth rate and will keep city number manageable.

EDIT: just realised I quoted the wrong guy >.<

Well, apart from the rubberbanding in most racing games, which is a bit of an obvious one and worse in combat racers because you have nothing in front of you, Oblivion had brutal scaling that essentially makes the game harder at higher levels, and Plague Inc. has a mechanic where the more noticable your disease is, the faster it will be cured, but at the same time without any symptoms you get hardly any point income. And since Dark Souls was mentioned I sort of have to say something - no. There is not a single point in Dark Souls where being better increases the difficulty, because being overconfident is the opposite of being better in Dark Souls.

Difficultly dynamically increasing based on the game's perception of your competency = punishment? Sounds like some people don't like to be challenged.. in which case rts games prolly should be avoided.

Also specifically in regards to total war: causing RD early isnt an indication of you doing well its a actually a reflection of you being punished for over aggression, ie you over extending yourself, ie you actually doing bad (as over extending is strategically inadvisable if you cant overwhelm your foes immediately.. see Blitzkrieg for an example)

And in medival total war they had something even worse than a bar you can monitor and actually try to balance out.. they hada tha freakina Pope xD (attacking Rome basically turned all of europe against you)

The Homeworld series would punish you for doing well as the enemy fleets are scaled based on the value of your fleet. One of the most common mistakes a player will make is during the Garden of Kadesh. In that mission, you can capture several (like, 8) Ion Cannon Frigates. If you keep them into the next mission, it's damn near impossible.

Xan Krieger:
Was just playing Shogun 2 Total War and I hit a moment known as "Realm Divide". What this means is you've done so well that every single clan in the game is going to declare war on you. The only way you know how close you are to a realm divide is a bar measuring your fame and it's a vague indicator at best. I declared war on a neighbor to help an ally, took two towns and holy crap, suddenly everyone else wants my head on a silver platter.

Another example of this BS is World of Tanks where the higher tier tanks make less credits than lower tier vehicles. I heard the excuse that this is so the lower tiers are always full of players which is BS because the lower tiers are more fun and thus will always have players. Almost every single time I run my tier 9 german heavy I lose money. It's a bad system meant to discourage players from advancing to the higher tiers. I would say they should have more events for tiers 1-6, more credit boosts, more 2x xp days instead of punishing people for having the nerve to play the higher tiers.

Yes this has just been me venting so far *shoots a harsh glare at Shogun 2* but this leads to a discussion. What other games punish you for doing well?

and your excuse to play the vanilla game without mods is?...
seriously, everyone knows the total war series are filled with minor to major bugs and flaws, one of them being the AI diplomacy... you'll get backstabbed by long-time allies with no reason, losing relations with all nations because someone broke a trade agreement, etc...

try darthmod or another similar overhaul mod, you'll not regret it.

I think I remember hearing about Raiden Fighter Aces (or one of the games in it cause its a small collection) would get harder the better you did. Makes a lot of sense, once you start feeling like a badass, getting all of your powerups and dodging everything, the difficulty ramps up, blows you up, and you want to put in another quarter.

The first Motorstorm game is horrible for punishing you the better you play. Each race has a couple of cars the game wants to finish in first and second and then from 3rd to about 7th is, what I have named, the suicide pack that does its darndest to stop you from getting past them. If you stick near the back or around 7th the games AI seems normal but once you gain the lead, or try to, the suicide pack will drive you off cliffs or into obstacles with no attempt whatsoever to save themselves. They will speed up and overtake you with boost then slam on their brakes when they are right in front of you so that you're slowed to a crawl. They also love to use the pit maneuver whenever you try to turn; trying to hand brake around a turn well result in them crashing directly into you without any attempt at turning on their part.

In Pacific Rift and Apocalypse seem to lack this behaviour.

Xan Krieger:
Another example of this BS is World of Tanks where the higher tier tanks make less credits than lower tier vehicles. I heard the excuse that this is so the lower tiers are always full of players which is BS because the lower tiers are more fun and thus will always have players. Almost every single time I run my tier 9 german heavy I lose money. It's a bad system meant to discourage players from advancing to the higher tiers. I would say they should have more events for tiers 1-6, more credit boosts, more 2x xp days instead of punishing people for having the nerve to play the higher tiers.

While I have yet to get that far on my own account (best I've got is a T1 heavy and an M7 light) I do understand one thing about what you are saying. Basically, the main reason that running a higher tier vehicle constantly is discouraged is because that once everyone got to that level that would be all that they played unless they wanted to go into another tree. They want people to have their first month or so of experience in the game to be one of a large community with thousands of players with a wide range of skills, not one where end game is 90% of the game. The way it is now, they encourage players to grind credits in the lower tiers, playing with noobs and pros alike and then grinding XP in the higher tiers to get better tanks for use in clan wars and tournaments. Sure a change to the experience system would be nice (like maybe 3-5x xp every Friday for an hour or two or maybe including xp discounts with the credit discount with the weekly tree focuses) but as it stands, it encourages more players to play with each other rather than having an elite top tier circle. Although I do have one complaint: GOD DAMNED KV-1's RUINING MY SCOUTING RUNS WITH THEIR ARMOR THAT I CAN'T EVEN PENETRATE.

Generally all of the Total war games.
The worst I've experianced was Medieval 2.
However, it's kind of not present in Napoleon, because everyone just hates you from the start.

Most comeback mechanics in fighting games can fuck right off. Ultras in SFIV (as previously mentioned) become more powerful the worse you're doing. X-Factor in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (also already mentioned) can practically hold your hand as you mow down your opponent. About the only recent fighting games that did comebacks well are BlazBlue and Persona 4 Arena. The former starts slowly drip feeding you extra super-meter automatically once you're below ~25% health while the latter gives you 50 free meter, raises your max meter to 150 and ups your defense one your below ~35% health. In short the well designed comeback mechanics are ones that give you the resources to enable a comeback without actually making it easier (i.e. they don't allow for shorter and/or easier combos).

Also regarding rubber banding in racing games I still have nightmares about the piece of shit that was Midnight Club 2 for the PS2. The AI in that game practically existed up your ass for how closely they followed you and how quick they where to pass you for the slightest error on your part. Need for Speed: Underground wasn't much better as the rubber banding in that game was such a problem that combined with the fact that the AI adapted with you (i.e. you upgraded your car so did it) that for later races the strategy became to take the best car in the game and downgrade it to stock parts, try to wreck all the opposing racers and pray for the best.

ChiliNoMore:

Xan Krieger:
Was just playing Shogun 2 Total War and I hit a moment known as "Realm Divide". What this means is you've done so well that every single clan in the game is going to declare war on you. The only way you know how close you are to a realm divide is a bar measuring your fame and it's a vague indicator at best. I declared war on a neighbor to help an ally, took two towns and holy crap, suddenly everyone else wants my head on a silver platter.

Another example of this BS is World of Tanks where the higher tier tanks make less credits than lower tier vehicles. I heard the excuse that this is so the lower tiers are always full of players which is BS because the lower tiers are more fun and thus will always have players. Almost every single time I run my tier 9 german heavy I lose money. It's a bad system meant to discourage players from advancing to the higher tiers. I would say they should have more events for tiers 1-6, more credit boosts, more 2x xp days instead of punishing people for having the nerve to play the higher tiers.

Yes this has just been me venting so far *shoots a harsh glare at Shogun 2* but this leads to a discussion. What other games punish you for doing well?

and your excuse to play the vanilla game without mods is?...
seriously, everyone knows the total war series are filled with minor to major bugs and flaws, one of them being the AI diplomacy... you'll get backstabbed by long-time allies with no reason, losing relations with all nations because someone broke a trade agreement, etc...

try darthmod or another similar overhaul mod, you'll not regret it.

I only play the Total War series with Darthmod, I never play vanilla anymore.

uchytjes:

Xan Krieger:
Another example of this BS is World of Tanks where the higher tier tanks make less credits than lower tier vehicles. I heard the excuse that this is so the lower tiers are always full of players which is BS because the lower tiers are more fun and thus will always have players. Almost every single time I run my tier 9 german heavy I lose money. It's a bad system meant to discourage players from advancing to the higher tiers. I would say they should have more events for tiers 1-6, more credit boosts, more 2x xp days instead of punishing people for having the nerve to play the higher tiers.

While I have yet to get that far on my own account (best I've got is a T1 heavy and an M7 light) I do understand one thing about what you are saying. Basically, the main reason that running a higher tier vehicle constantly is discouraged is because that once everyone got to that level that would be all that they played unless they wanted to go into another tree. They want people to have their first month or so of experience in the game to be one of a large community with thousands of players with a wide range of skills, not one where end game is 90% of the game. The way it is now, they encourage players to grind credits in the lower tiers, playing with noobs and pros alike and then grinding XP in the higher tiers to get better tanks for use in clan wars and tournaments. Sure a change to the experience system would be nice (like maybe 3-5x xp every Friday for an hour or two or maybe including xp discounts with the credit discount with the weekly tree focuses) but as it stands, it encourages more players to play with each other rather than having an elite top tier circle. Although I do have one complaint: GOD DAMNED KV-1's RUINING MY SCOUTING RUNS WITH THEIR ARMOR THAT I CAN'T EVEN PENETRATE.

That actually does hurt the people just reaching tier V because the long time players who just play for the credits know everything about the game and dominate. I admit it, I love playing tier 2 just so I can ruin new people. That doesn't make me a total jerk, does it?

Pretty much any fighting game I've played. I actually tried to grasp Soul Calibur 2, started doing "okay", but the second I'm doing okay it suddenly enabled fighters on the easiest difficulty to use combos that could take down half my health bar with no way of knowing how to defend or counter -- having only recently just been taught the basics. My suspicion was that I was supposed to grind and practice but... that's not exactly what I'd call fun or good teaching.

Glaice:
The problem with WoT is because they want you to spend money on premium and/or $50 overpowered crap and I don't think the devs give two shits about their non-Russian players either because all I've seen in the past 6 months is just pandering to their own countrymen most of the time.

Whilst I do agree that they seem to listen to the Russian players more than the US, SEA and EU ones,(and honestly, even them not enough, RU players are asking for the same stuff) I still gotta correct you. Premium tanks are NOT OP. NEITHER are soviet tanks.

I didn't like how in Oblivion the enemies scaled as you did, making them much harder to kill. Same with Fallout 3, I got tired of burning through a small countries munition supply to kill one critter. So I cheated. For Oblivion I got a mod that allows you to wear unlimited rings and amulets, and Fallout 3 I got a couple of custom made weapons.

Playing the game by it's rules is normally fine, but not when those rules replace the joyful progression with skull cracking frustration.

Xan Krieger:
Was just playing Shogun 2 Total War and I hit a moment known as "Realm Divide". What this means is you've done so well that every single clan in the game is going to declare war on you. The only way you know how close you are to a realm divide is a bar measuring your fame and it's a vague indicator at best. I declared war on a neighbor to help an ally, took two towns and holy crap, suddenly everyone else wants my head on a silver platter.

Another example of this BS is World of Tanks where the higher tier tanks make less credits than lower tier vehicles. I heard the excuse that this is so the lower tiers are always full of players which is BS because the lower tiers are more fun and thus will always have players. Almost every single time I run my tier 9 german heavy I lose money. It's a bad system meant to discourage players from advancing to the higher tiers. I would say they should have more events for tiers 1-6, more credit boosts, more 2x xp days instead of punishing people for having the nerve to play the higher tiers.

Yes this has just been me venting so far *shoots a harsh glare at Shogun 2* but this leads to a discussion. What other games punish you for doing well?

The Shogun 2 thing is a small case for me now. I've played a lot of campaigns and I can just feel when the next town I take will trigger it. When you know it's coming, you can do really well against everything but sea invasions. For the most part, all you need is armies in your border cities and a powerful army to take Kyoto. Bribing the ever loving piss out of your allies can keep them on your side for a few precious turns, if not indefinitely since the negative effect of realm divide caps at 200. I have a Takeda campaign where me and the Hojo are best buds even years beyond realm divide. There was a similar mechanic in Rome where the senate declares you an enemy once you get too much popular support, so it's not like they don't have precedent for it.

WoT is a free to play game. The slowing progress and losing money is to get you to buy gold for a premium account, which makes it a lot easier to go positive. If you are running a premium account, maybe you should think about how you drive the E-75 I take it? Could be the VK4502 P B too, but that's a much less popular line these days. Not the time or place for that discussion though. There's a reason why people usually own several tier 5 mediums. The M4 and the T-34 are fantastic money makers as are some of the tier 6 TDs, like the Hellcat and the SU-100 using the 100mm gun. The tier 8 premiums also make a fuckton of money, more than 100k on a great match. So yeah, it's pretty much part of their scheme to make money, which considering it's free to play, I can forgive them for.

Ooooh. So THAT'S why everyone attacked me when I took Kyoto. I threw every ashigeru I had at that place, conquering it with just a few units left and SUDDENLY HOSTILES EVERYWHERE! My allies dropped me with no notification or reason and everyone marched onto Kyoto at the same time to stomp on my face. Which wasn't hard to do, since all I had left were a few puny peasants with pikes.

Well, that's just bullshit. Ok, sure you can expect more hostility if you occupy the capital in feudal Japan, but to have every clan instantly drop everything they're doing and come fuck my shit up the instant I take the city may seem as a bit harsh..

Parakeettheprawn:
Pretty much any fighting game I've played. I actually tried to grasp Soul Calibur 2, started doing "okay", but the second I'm doing okay it suddenly enabled fighters on the easiest difficulty to use combos that could take down half my health bar with no way of knowing how to defend or counter -- having only recently just been taught the basics. My suspicion was that I was supposed to grind and practice but... that's not exactly what I'd call fun or good teaching.

My suspicion is that you just suck at fighting games :') ... or just need some practice. Yeah that sounds nicer.

God Hand:
The better you do, the more 'kick' your foes have.

:D

A system where the game ramps up difficulty if you are doing too well, always made sense to me. Yes its "punishing success" but I can see the idea behind it. People want to be challenged when they play a game, so if they aren't being challenged then up the challenge until they are. I like how Left 4 Dead did it. Plenty of ammo and supplies? Wheres the tension in that? Toss hordes of zombies at them until things are nice and tense, then if they survive the massive onslaught reward them with just enough supplies to survive the next one.

Xan Krieger:

uchytjes:
While I have yet to get that far on my own account (best I've got is a T1 heavy and an M7 light) I do understand one thing about what you are saying. Basically, the main reason that running a higher tier vehicle constantly is discouraged is because that once everyone got to that level that would be all that they played unless they wanted to go into another tree. They want people to have their first month or so of experience in the game to be one of a large community with thousands of players with a wide range of skills, not one where end game is 90% of the game. The way it is now, they encourage players to grind credits in the lower tiers, playing with noobs and pros alike and then grinding XP in the higher tiers to get better tanks for use in clan wars and tournaments. Sure a change to the experience system would be nice (like maybe 3-5x xp every Friday for an hour or two or maybe including xp discounts with the credit discount with the weekly tree focuses) but as it stands, it encourages more players to play with each other rather than having an elite top tier circle. Although I do have one complaint: GOD DAMNED KV-1's RUINING MY SCOUTING RUNS WITH THEIR ARMOR THAT I CAN'T EVEN PENETRATE.

That actually does hurt the people just reaching tier V because the long time players who just play for the credits know everything about the game and dominate. I admit it, I love playing tier 2 just so I can ruin new people. That doesn't make me a total jerk, does it?

If it makes you a jerk then I am also a big jerk. The tank I have the most battles in is the M2 light. I really fricking love that tank, but once I acquire a M24 Chaffee I'm sure that my main tank will change immediately. Also, on the topic of it being unfair for pros to mingle in with the noobs in the mid tier matches, it is a necessary and preferable evil. Would you rather have everyone be piled up in the end-game tanks leaving little to no competition for the low and mid tiers or have a balance towards the middle where the low tiers get scumbagers such as ourselves and noobs while the higher tiers are used for special battles and generally better players?

Abomination:
Crusader Kings II (a game I love with all my heart) does this by creating a kingdom that becomes harder and harder to govern the more territory you have. Trying to split the nation into earldoms when sometimes you just want to give your immediate family dutchies - who will in turn try and reduce your royal authority - can get very frustrating.

That's just politics and human nature though, not really a choice made for difficulties sake: The more powerful you become, the more envious people become and the more people you have trying to attain some of that power for themselves.

Or as a wise man once said "The bigger they are, the harder they fall!"

The Madman:

Abomination:
Crusader Kings II (a game I love with all my heart) does this by creating a kingdom that becomes harder and harder to govern the more territory you have. Trying to split the nation into earldoms when sometimes you just want to give your immediate family dutchies - who will in turn try and reduce your royal authority - can get very frustrating.

That's just politics and human nature though, not really a choice made for difficulties sake: The more powerful you become, the more envious people become and the more people you have trying to attain some of that power for themselves.

Or as a wise man once said "The bigger they are, the harder they fall!"

Oh it certainly is human nature and it's great how the game has these elements included. But you need to have a large nation because there are these other factions (namely the Byzantine and Holy Roman Empires) who will gobble you up if you can't field an army strong enough to contend with any aggressive claims.

Homeworld, RIP. The difficulty of each level is determined by how you performed in the previous level. It pretty much assures you that if you ever get the hang of the game, everything will dial up to 11 and fuck you over.

Sewa_Yunga:
The bonus XP for ghosting levels in Deus Ex:HR is rather small compared to what you would get by going in guns blazing and shooting the whole place to tiny bits.

The leveling system in Oblivion was rather broken too. Before I started using overhaul mods, I actually had to make a custom class that had the skills I used least as main skills so I (and thus my enemies) wouldn't level up too fast.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but don't you get like 500 or 1000 xp (maybe more) for going through a level not getting noticed (as well as the traveler bonus for finding certain areas) and not killing anyone? While killing people only gets you 10 xp or I think 25 with a head-shot. So the only bonus is being able to search for more items which you wouldn't need anyway as long as you are sneaking.

the second and third disgaea games had bosses which if you could beat would land you a negative game over you would of needed to be well over post game levels to stand a hope in hell(no pun intended) against them

With the whole Dark Fantasy thing the franchise has going on, there are some moments that have choices you can make that seem benevolent, but end up crashing and burning in the long run.

Want to help a Dwarven girl in going to the Ferelden Mage Circle purely for academic study on magic? go right ahead! if you want the Chantry to consider throwing an Exalted March on the Dwarves.

To be fair, I know it was intentional, but I personally find certain parts of the whole Black and Grey Morality thing Dragon Age has going for it pretty hard to swallow.[/quote][quote="Misterian" post="9.406308.16907333"]Well, I think you could say the Dragon Age games sometimes do this, but in a different way.

No, no, no. The Chantry only marches on the dwarves if you help Brother Burkle create a new chantry down there by getting permission from the shaperate to have one. If you help Dagna go to the circle she actually helps out a great deal in rebuilding and publishes several books on magical theory as told by a non-magic person, so that actually is a benevolent choice.

Misterian:
Well, I think you could say the Dragon Age games sometimes do this, but in a different way.

With the whole Dark Fantasy thing the franchise has going on, there are some moments that have choices you can make that seem benevolent, but end up crashing and burning in the long run.

Want to help a Dwarven girl in going to the Ferelden Mage Circle purely for academic study on magic? go right ahead! if you want the Chantry to consider throwing an Exalted March on the Dwarves.

To be fair, I know it was intentional, but I personally find certain parts of the whole Black and Grey Morality thing Dragon Age has going for it pretty hard to swallow.

Actually it's not the Dwarven Girl studying in the Circle that makes the chantry consider another exalted march, it's the dwarf whom you help set up a dwarven chantry in Orzammar. Shit goes down there because dwarves are assholes (it's been a while I can't remember the specifics) and a bunch of people die. This does not please the chantry.

The Wykydtron:
Inb4 UMVC3. Tore through his first two characters with barely any damage taken? Oh who's up ne-oh fuck

X-FACTOR!

DOWN!

DOWN!

HYPER COMBO K.O!

... Goddammit

It's ok though, the very next game you could be the guy making the hilarious comeback! UMVC3 is about equal opportunity bullshit!

I happen to like comeback mechanics since they make the game more interesting, I can't wait to see the new Overdrives in Chrono Phantasma for example. UMVC3 definitely takes it to the extreme though.

Heh, as silly X-factor is, it can still be pretty hype. It's derpy as hell as a comeback mechanic, but it's definitely more multifaceted than people give it credit for. X-factor can be useful even when you aren't losing. I love it when X-factor is used to push an advantage, or used like a Rapid Cancel to avoid punishment or start a mixup.

samgdawg:
As has been stated above Oblivion, and Skyrim every once in a while, is evil for this. Ground your weapon skills to a decent level so you can do decent damage resulting in a few level ups? Enemies are scaled to negate your efforts. Trained your diplomacy related skills because you like to try being nice? Enemies are scaled to rape you because you had the gall to think you could talk to people. Skyrim is a lot better, but if you grind little more than your speech and barter skills for a long time you end up facing Draugr Omega Deathlords or whatever their called.

I don't think that really counts as punishing you for doing well, I've found that simply prioritizing combat perks keeps me in good shape to fight enemies even if I have only been leveling off a non combat skill. So put perks into say Two Handed first, if there are no more (useful) perks to take then go for your armor perks and if there are no (useful) armor perks to take THEN get a non combat perk. Works wonders.

Anyhoo, Mario Kart...... I hate you.

Xan Krieger:
Was just playing Shogun 2 Total War and I hit a moment known as "Realm Divide". What this means is you've done so well that every single clan in the game is going to declare war on you. The only way you know how close you are to a realm divide is a bar measuring your fame and it's a vague indicator at best. I declared war on a neighbor to help an ally, took two towns and holy crap, suddenly everyone else wants my head on a silver platter.

That's not "BS", that would be the basics of International Relations(IR). It happened when France looked like it was going to take over Spain. The US stopped potential opponents to its power after WWI by demanding the alliance between the UK and Japan be broken up, (a horrible idea, in retrospect) and it would absolutely happen in the era of Japan depicted in Shogun 2 as well. Haven't you played Risk or Diplomacy? Whoever gets most powerful is ganged up on because everyone wants to win themselves, and if it looks like they are about to lose, it is in all their interests form a temporary alliance to keep that from happening. You should play Diplomacy, the favourite game of Henry Kissinger, great game.

This is what potential candidates for Shogun of Japan had to deal with. To me, it sounds like fun to have to take on everyone at once. You might be able to keep it from happening by forming lots of alliances and firm trade relationships, but I haven't gotten far through Shogun 2 yet, good luck.

Hafnium:
Racing games and rubber-banding is the worst for me, especially in a game with real cars. I remember being hilariously overtaken by supposedly much slower cars, simply because they got speed boosts. The most efficient strategy then becomes to hang around in the middle, not doing your best, and then trying really hard for the last lap or two. It's bad design and only works for a short while to keep things more equal, until you figure it out and stop playing because the fun goes away. :(

I remember GRID did this to an alarming degree. I'd be putting down absolute cracking laps, with the competition freshly on my tail...they'd try to pass in a chicane or some other poor location, get spun or hit the wall, and half a lap later, they'd be right back on my ass. On the other side of it, I'd follow directly behind them and their lap times would be nearly 20-30sec/lap off of mine.

This mechanic is great for Mario Kart, not for racing games when cater to a racing fan.

thesilentman:

Actually.. the Four Kings fight is this for me. Every time I go slow and try to learn their tells, I seem to forget that it's a DPS race and they murder me brutally. So yes, the game is punishing me by attacking my method to beat the game.

(I hated that dragon too.)

So much for "You can play it any way you want!" mantra that the fanboys love to scream to people that don't like it.

Ftaghn To You Too:

Lilly explicitly tells you, to paraphrase slightly "If you keep doing this you're gonna get stabbed when you Startle the Witch. Back off a bit." You only get that Bad End by trusting the judgement of a visual novel protagonist. You NEVER trust visual novel protagonists.

I had to use a guide to get Hanako's bad end:-P I meant that everything seems normal up until the bad end scene.

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