Far Cry 3, is a better RPG than Skyrim.

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None of things listed by OP was in anyway related to rpgs, though far cry 3 is a better rpg by default as it actually has rpg elements, even if they're a little limited

Alright easy now OP... Easiiiiie!

It's fine to think Far Cry 3 is a better game, but it is inarguably not a better RPG. And absolutely not for the reasons you described, if it were to possibly be in any corner of the imagination.

Also more memorable characters doesnt nessecarily mean better characters. Vahz(or whatever his name was), certainly was memorable, but the character makes pretty much no sense and much of his written dialogue clearly has the only direction "write a bunch of crazy things that he says",and it doesn't really add up to a believeable character. Although being cartoony is fine, it's an especially bad fit for RPGs.... ALSO, your lead villain being "over the top" isnt really an excuse for nonsensical dialogue, you can be over the top, crazy and cartoony while still having a sense of motivation behind what his saying.

So.. you know.. Just no.

Soopy:
The reasons I say that Far Cry 3 is a better RPG than Skyrim;

1; The Combat is FAR better.

Yeah, for the most part it is.

Soopy:
2; The crafting system functions much nicer and doesn't break the game.

It doesn't break the game, but it's profoundly limited to the point of being utterly perfunctory.

Soopy:
3; The graphical fidelity and aesthetic choices are far and away better.

Graphical fidelity, yes. Aesthetic choices...that's debatable.

Soopy:
4; The characters are far and a way better. The way they interact with the player character, the way they are scripted and the way the story is imparted is just leagues ahead of what Skyrim provides.

Yeah I'd agree with that. It has a pretty small stable of characters though, and an ENTIRELY linear set piece based story. It's not really a fair comparison. Skyrim is an intentional sandbox that is trying to maximize player choice. Things will be watered down as a result. But yes, Far Cry 3 had some truly excellent characterizations.

Soopy:
5; The story - thus far - is way better. It's pacing, its delivery and its content is just better. Skyrim had allot of potential, it had a great pretense and idea, it just fell on its face from a great height with its delivery.

Again, comparing pacing and delivery is a total apples and oranges situation. Far Cry 3 is a set piece based action game. There are some superficial sandbox elements, but at its heart it's a story heavy shooter. And if you want, you can fuck the pacing just as hard as you can in Skyrim by dropping the main quest and spending 30 hours stabbing Tapirs in the undergrowth.

Soopy:
Obviously, this is all pretty much subjective opinion. But it's what I genuinely think, I'm not even sure that Far Cry 3 is considered an RPG, but based on the properties of what both games offer and the fact that Skyrim IS considered an RPG, I feel that the comparison is somewhat valid.

It's a shooter/RPG hybrid, most effectively compared to games like Dishonored or Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I mean, Dishonored has MUCH better pacing than Planescape Torment. It does not necessarily make it a better RPG.

Soopy:
What do you think?

I think Far Cry 3 is an excellent game and I'm glad you're liking it so much. Very different animal than Skyrim though.

To me the big weakness in Skyrim is pacing. It is incredibly easy to distract yourself with meaningless side quests and totally miss the more meaty "real" quests. It can get to the point where I feel like I'm a dog chasing my tail- just running around in circles because there is so much going on. Skyrim represents the challenge of sandbox gaming, how do you give players freedom to do whatever they want without breaking the game to make it unfun. I havent played FarCry, but perhaps the pacing in the game is better, and thats why you like it more?

So in other words, it's like Skyrim, WITH GUNS?!

Both are different games, which is better than which is an opinion.

I will be playing Skyrim for the next 4+ years atleast. Once I get the last couple of achievements in FC3, its likely going to stay shelved. Plus you are comparing apples to oranges. FC3 is a linear focused game witha pre-made character. Sure you can ignore the story and go hunting or whatever, but for how long is that viable? In Skyrim I am who I want to be. Both styles have their place, and I am no way saying FC3 is a bad game, but its not a game that you can directly compare to Skyrim.

Comocat:
To me the big weakness in Skyrim is pacing. It is incredibly easy to distract yourself with meaningless side quests and totally miss the more meaty "real" quests. It can get to the point where I feel like I'm a dog chasing my tail- just running around in circles because there is so much going on. Skyrim represents the challenge of sandbox gaming, how do you give players freedom to do whatever they want without breaking the game to make it unfun. I havent played FarCry, but perhaps the pacing in the game is better, and thats why you like it more?

You put too much value on the "main quests". Id be just as happy with Skyrim with no main quests and that is the appeal. Its why I still to this day play Morrowind, and I assure you its not to do the main quest over and over.

Comocat:
To me the big weakness in Skyrim is pacing. It is incredibly easy to distract yourself with meaningless side quests and totally miss the more meaty "real" quests. It can get to the point where I feel like I'm a dog chasing my tail- just running around in circles because there is so much going on. Skyrim represents the challenge of sandbox gaming, how do you give players freedom to do whatever they want without breaking the game to make it unfun. I havent played FarCry, but perhaps the pacing in the game is better, and thats why you like it more?

Well i think its simply requires more out of the player. To get the greatest experiences you usually have to work with the game alittle, and let it not be perfectly but rather pace it yourself, and be your own dungeon master. Skyrim tries to please every playstyle, you can follow the main quests and be engaged, but it still wants you to be able to wander anywhere on random and always find something interesting. So i see what you're saying, it can be annoying with all these things calling your attention when you already have something in your crosshairs.

So here you have to stop expecting the game to hold your hand or to present itself to you perfectly. I simply decided to allow myself to be sidetracked, if something caught my interest i ran with it unless i felt the main plot line was currently pressing. If you decide you want to be focused on the main plot, then you have to ignore the other attention-calling.

It doesnt make for the perfect experience but I think players should sometimes ask the game what they can do for it, and not what the game can do for them. Whilst you have certainly paid for it, your only helping yourself in the end. And i think it's fair from a game as massive and ambitious as Skyrim to ask this of the player.

So what's a better game, Ninja Gaiden or Bioshock Infinite?

See how pointless that is? The ONLY things the games really share in common are a Sandbox Style Environment and a first person perspective.

But ok whatever I'll bite.

Not only is Farcry not a better 'rpg', it's an inferior game in general.

1. Side missions+ mini games in FC3 are a boring, uninspired afterthought.

2. The FC3 sandbox environment while beautiful, is incredibly shallow. Once you kill a tiger for the umpteenth time and realise you are taking out the same outpost again and again, shit gets old fast. And don't even get me started on the laughable NPC character model and voice variety.

3. Complete disconnect between what you are doing in the main narrative and the random crap you get into in the regular game world. Almost to the point that it's like playing 2 separate games: One is some Call of Duty style spectacle on-rails shooter while the second is some kind of first person Just Cause 2.

4. Characters. While Skyrim's characters weren't particularly memorable or that well developed, it at least makes up for it in variety. My big gripe with FC3's characters, is that everyone goes on and on about how awesome they were without actually looking past the cool voice acting.

Look at Vaas for example. All you ever really learn about him, is that he's a nut case drug addict who wants to kill you because someone told him to. That's it. Then he disappears from the story. We never learn anything of his real motivations, past, personal experiences etc. He's just 'cool bad guy' stereotype. Same can be said for nearly all the characters in the game.

5. Exploration and rewards. In skyrim, I explore a cave and potentially find a nest of bandits with traps and treasure. In FC3 I explore a cave and find copy+past 'chests' with nonsensical vendor junk and maybe some lame ass collectible that I'm collecting...just because.

And let's not forget the modding scene, which adds immeasurable depth to Skyrim that FC3 could never hope to compete with.

Skyrim has a shitload more depth than farcry 3.

piinyouri:
This board is just really really silly sometimes.

I demand you treat this thread with the dignity it deserves. It's not every day you learn that FarCry is an RPG series. Or that combat mechanics make good RPGs.

Wait....

loa:
Skyrim has a shitload more depth than farcry 3.

By what definition would an RPG require depth?

>.>

loa:
Skyrim has a shitload more depth than farcry 3.

A common saying now about skyrim;

as wide as an ocean but with the depth of a puddle

Zachary Amaranth:

loa:
Skyrim has a shitload more depth than farcry 3.

By what definition would an RPG require depth?

>.>

Seems to be a generational gap thing.

IronMit:

loa:
Skyrim has a shitload more depth than farcry 3.

A common saying now about skyrim;

as wide as an ocean but with the depth of a puddle

Still deeper than a drop on the floor.

As we have a weird definition of RPG.
I put it to you that Deus Ex: HR is a better RPG then skyrim or far cry;

A level up system that makes sense rather then some numerical incremental point system that somehow causes enemies to level up too and still isn't balanced
An inventory system that doesn't make you want to shoot yourself
Multiple characters with different motivations and personalities to flush out and care about
Combat that makes sense
Awesome graphic aesthetics

Seriously though almost all games have leveling up systems to unlock stuff and/or are open world. That does not mean they qualify to be an 'rpg'.
The new Tomb Raider and batman allow you to level up and unlock skills. It's just a way to pad the game and add a little variation (hoping people will replay games so they won't end up on the pre-owned shelf)

Far Cry 3 is probably a better all round game to Skyrim. Doesn't make it a better rpg.

And Tomb Raider is a better RPG than Far Cry 3.

First of all, Far Cry 3 is not an RPG. If it is then any shooter with an upgrades system is an RPG. But that is besides the point.

What makes an RPG? Well, a leveling system that directly influences your abilities is what is generally thought of as being the core mechanic to an RPG. Is Far Cry 3 like this? Nope. You can very easily go through a game without needing to level up. What about skyrim? Yes. The levels in that game are a direct influence on your ability in combat. As you level up you grow stronger and can kill more easily. Go try to kill a giant at level one in that game and you can see that leveling is necessary.

I will admit the lines are quite blurred these days of what an RPG is. Number crunching? Levelling up? Choices that matter? Crafting? Dungeon crawling? Having a party? These are some of the things an RPG can have.

Yes you can gain skills in far cry.

Yes there is crafting, but it just boils down to holding more weapons and ammo. Can you create guns? No.

Are there choices within the story of far cry? no.

Far cry 3 is a game with RPG elements (like others have said). I really like how most of the skills are useful. Nothing like ripping through an entire outpost with one long chain-takedown and a knife throw ^_^

IronMit:
Seriously though almost all games have leveling up systems to unlock stuff and/or are open world. That does not mean they qualify to be an 'rpg'.

What's the distinction then? If it is to be a meaningful term then there must be a deciding factor. Most people seem to be comfortable with the term "RPG-elements" referring to progression, so it must be something along those lines. How do you decide whether something is an RPG or an "X with RPG-elements"?

uchytjes:
First of all, Far Cry 3 is not an RPG. If it is then any shooter with an upgrades system is an RPG.

Again, I've not played Farcry 3, but from my understanding the progression system is tied to that black-magic tatoo thing you've got going on, and that fact that your character is growing stronger is an integral part of the story. That's a theme of progression, rather than just a bolted on mechanic. If you take something like Tribes: Ascend, then you unlock weapons and upgrades using experience you gain through matches, but there's no story to speak of and no overarching reason that your character should grow stronger. So the progression is purely mechanical and not thematic.

That's just my take on it. And yes, I see no reason not to call a game like Deus Ex an RPG. I mean, why not?

hazabaza1:

And I feel differently. This is how opinions work. Mind explaining yours to me? Because I can't understand it in the slightest.

Even bringing them along for a long time they're basically just fighting backpacks with the occasional different line.
While I do like Skyrim the characters all look so similar and the armour is generally so bland and replaceable that companions are pretty much expendable.

I'm sorry but you clearly lack imagination. You only see what's in front of you. If I did that then I'd be bored with the game. But I still play it. That's because I allow myself to be fully immersed in the game. It's not just my character that has a background and a personality I give him or her, I do that with other characters as well. With companions mostly.

Also, I play on PC, and mods really help. Armor being bland for example is not an issue. My companions all have their own unique stuff and skillet, and sometimes I dress them in the same armor as myself. Mods really do help you get more out of the game.

Saelune:

Comocat:
To me the big weakness in Skyrim is pacing. It is incredibly easy to distract yourself with meaningless side quests and totally miss the more meaty "real" quests. It can get to the point where I feel like I'm a dog chasing my tail- just running around in circles because there is so much going on. Skyrim represents the challenge of sandbox gaming, how do you give players freedom to do whatever they want without breaking the game to make it unfun. I havent played FarCry, but perhaps the pacing in the game is better, and thats why you like it more?

You put too much value on the "main quests". Id be just as happy with Skyrim with no main quests and that is the appeal. Its why I still to this day play Morrowind, and I assure you its not to do the main quest over and over.

I meant that it is easy to bog yourself down in silly fetch quests and essentially play like you have schizophrenia. I like coherent arcs, whether major or minor and if I'm working on Dark Brotherhood quests while trying to solve a civil war and at the same time saving the whole world from dragons- it just seems silly.

Anton Qvarfordt:

Well i think its simply requires more out of the player. To get the greatest experiences you usually have to work with the game alittle, and let it not be perfectly but rather pace it yourself, and be your own dungeon master. Skyrim tries to please every playstyle, you can follow the main quests and be engaged, but it still wants you to be able to wander anywhere on random and always find something interesting. So i see what you're saying, it can be annoying with all these things calling your attention when you already have something in your crosshairs.

So here you have to stop expecting the game to hold your hand or to present itself to you perfectly. I simply decided to allow myself to be sidetracked, if something caught my interest i ran with it unless i felt the main plot line was currently pressing. If you decide you want to be focused on the main plot, then you have to ignore the other attention-calling.

It doesnt make for the perfect experience but I think players should sometimes ask the game what they can do for it, and not what the game can do for them. Whilst you have certainly paid for it, your only helping yourself in the end. And i think it's fair from a game as massive and ambitious as Skyrim to ask this of the player.

I agree entirely. The real challenge I think is having enough awareness to play the game in a coherent way. Sure I could become a guild master of all guilds, but does that really make any sense? IMO playing like that sort of ruins the experience because the game flows more like a checklist than an emerging story. I appreciate an open-ended adventure like Skyrim but I think a lot of people dont, like me achievement whoring on my first playthrough, because they try and do everything which just leads to a crappy game experience.

Adam Jensen:

hazabaza1:

And I feel differently. This is how opinions work. Mind explaining yours to me? Because I can't understand it in the slightest.

Even bringing them along for a long time they're basically just fighting backpacks with the occasional different line.
While I do like Skyrim the characters all look so similar and the armour is generally so bland and replaceable that companions are pretty much expendable.

I'm sorry but you clearly lack imagination. You only see what's in front of you. If I did that then I'd be bored with the game. But I still play it. That's because I allow myself to be fully immersed in the game. It's not just my character that has a background and a personality I give him or her, I do that with other characters as well. With companions mostly.

Also, I play on PC, and mods really help. Armor being bland for example is not an issue. My companions all have their own unique stuff and skillet, and sometimes I dress them in the same armor as myself. Mods really do help you get more out of the game.

Then that's a credit to your imagination and the mods, not to the game itself. Though I say this as I run around with Serana myself, as she is one of the more, if not most, developed companions available. Not to mention she flattens everything around her.

FarCry 3 isn't an RPG.

Therefore, Skyrim is the better RPG. Whether it's necessarily a good RPG, however, is up to personal opinion.

I wouldn't even call Far Cry 3 an RPG at all. It's just a really good shooter. I would say Skyrim's combat is better in general because there's more than two ways to take care of baddies, even if the enemies don't pursue you enough once they've been hit with an arrow. Crafting is much deeper and more useful. Minor characters have relatively unique appearances as opposed of the two or three different people who give you side quests in Far Cry. Story is kind of a wash in my opinion. Far Cry is a little more interesting, but Skyrim has side quests with purpose, rather than "ERMAHGERD, MY DAUGHTER IS BEING ATTACKED BY 3 LIZARDS THAT GO DOWN IN ONE HIT HALP MEH."

Caiphus:
Skyrim has dragons and orcs.
Does Far Cry 3 have dragons and orcs?

There you go.

WE GOT A BAU5 OVA HERE!

Comocat:
To me the big weakness in Skyrim is pacing. It is incredibly easy to distract yourself with meaningless side quests and totally miss the more meaty "real" quests. It can get to the point where I feel like I'm a dog chasing my tail- just running around in circles because there is so much going on. Skyrim represents the challenge of sandbox gaming, how do you give players freedom to do whatever they want without breaking the game to make it unfun. I havent played FarCry, but perhaps the pacing in the game is better, and thats why you like it more?

Define meaningless? Is helping some of the Skyrim citizens meaningless?
It all depends on how you play your character, in Skyrim (which I haven't yet finished btw) your character is you know, go told to do this, go told to do that, what if my character doesn't want to do any of that? What if I don't want to join either side of the war? The pacing is what you make it. That's what non-linear gaming is about.

Far Cry III is as much an RPG as Skyrim is a first person shooter.

In that neither is too much of either.

Far Cry III is certainly more immersive and the characters are far more interesting, the story is far more personal... but it isn't an RPG. There aren't any player choices that effect story apart from at the very end, and that's just "see a different cinematic".

Skyrim is a great first person sandbox RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe. Far Cry III is a great sandbox first person shooter with an engaging plot and overarching themes. They both strive for different things.

RPG elements have pretty heavily bled all over the medium by this point, and a ridiculous number of games use similar features (like call of duty and its famous operant conditioning multiplayer), but thats not really what defines an RPG, at least not anymore, partly because some of its elements have become so universal.

and RPG is a game that engrosses you into a role, a part of that world. far cry does some things better than skyrim, and believe me i have MANY problems with skyrim, but i still say its a better RPG than far cry 3. pretty much everything scripted in skyrim sucks, but if thats what you judge it on, you are playing it completely wrong. skyrim, and RPGS, are about making your own story based off your personal experience, theyre about mimicking they way people actually live life to try and create a more immersive experience; yeah the scripted characters suck, but that ice troll who took on a giant AND a dragon by some great feat of badassery will forever by remembered, and his ignoble death by a random dawnstar guard was avenged tenfold. yeah alduin and his nonsense is nothing memorable, but simply running from whiterun to morthal i created a story for the ages: defended travelers from sabrecats, found a stray dog who gave his life to save me from a spider ambush, got bit by a vampire and killed the vampire lord who controlled her for revenge; after a grueling battle, i magicked my way into the shadows and killed him with an arrow to the neck, then took his fancy boots to add insult to injury.

far cry 3 might be better from a mechanical perspective, but skyrim was a better experience.

Adam Jensen:

hazabaza1:

And I feel differently. This is how opinions work. Mind explaining yours to me? Because I can't understand it in the slightest.

Even bringing them along for a long time they're basically just fighting backpacks with the occasional different line.
While I do like Skyrim the characters all look so similar and the armour is generally so bland and replaceable that companions are pretty much expendable.

I'm sorry but you clearly lack imagination. You only see what's in front of you. If I did that then I'd be bored with the game. But I still play it. That's because I allow myself to be fully immersed in the game. It's not just my character that has a background and a personality I give him or her, I do that with other characters as well. With companions mostly.

Also, I play on PC, and mods really help. Armor being bland for example is not an issue. My companions all have their own unique stuff and skillet, and sometimes I dress them in the same armor as myself. Mods really do help you get more out of the game.

I played on PC as well, and I've had my fair shot at modding new stuff in, and while I would say I have a fairly decent imagination I still never felt like having a companion ever had a point. The few times I tried giving my character and compaions unique backstories resulted in absolutely nothing because it never gets reflected in game in any way, and unless I'm willing to spend an absurd amount of time justifying why my friend or I would bother entering Cave #21231342 it was just more hassle than it was worth.

In terms of giving characters with no personalities some kind of personality I did enjoy Dragon's Dogma. Adding some player interaction to the creation of NPCs does loads for keeping them unique. Companion height, weight, weapon type, speech patterns, voice, gear layouts, skills, usage of skills... pretty much all different for everyone you can hire. And not like "this character uses a one handed axe instead of a sword!" like in Skyrim. I even went back and hired some (by that point) lower leveled characters to the end of the game because they were both really cool and helpful in how they looked and acted.

Daystar Clarion:
You gotta stop using the word RPG, OP.

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Far Cry 3 is a great game, but it ain't an RPG.

This 100%

The term RPG has been cheapened by the industry and by non-rpg gamers for years now to the point where a levelling system or even a bloody weapons select=RPG to some people.

Roll on Wasteland 2...

I fully understand I will be flamed to all hell for this but, I hated Skyrim so much.. I have been playing TES since Arena (I played it on one of my uncles PC In early 90s) I Loved all of them, Yes, even Oblivion. But skyrim... Skyrim took my precious Dunmer and made them pretty F*ed up looking... The game features stunning enviroments of Tree... Mountain... Tree... Mountain...Tree... But I understand Oblivion did pretty much the same thing. However I just did not like Skyrim at all, I couldn't get into it, I pre-ordered it, I was excited as hell, I play it, two hours in I'm Upset. There were some improvements but There were down serious steps backwards too. I didn't like it at all. So, Far cry 3 being better? Well, I did enjoy Farcry 3 a lot but, Can you compare the two? If you can then - I Suppose? With Farcry 3 the combat was fun, Trolling the guards was fun, but it did get old fast. I guess I'm just being negative.. I don't know.

But, Yes, FC3 isn't an RPG.

Ok, so a game that isn't an RPG game managed the RPG elements it incorporated better than an ACTUAL RPG game.

Arguing semantics is a bit ridiculous, it's pretty obvious what the OP was getting at and you should debate the points he raises instead of dismissing his entire post based on a single simple error.

loa:
Seems to be a generational gap thing.

It actually amazes me that in an era where we've advanced the potential of games as a storytelling medium so far that we can so readily forget the roleplaying aspect of RPGs.

Still deeper than a drop on the floor.

It honestly doesn't take much to be deeper than Far Cry, so yeah.

Soopy:
Okay, big claim. But I do genuinely believe it. I've played Skyrim extensively (few hundred hours) and I consider myself to be a fairly big fan of the TES series.

The reasons I say that Far Cry 3 is a better RPG than Skyrim;

1; The Combat is FAR better.
2; The crafting system functions much nicer and doesn't break the game.
3; The graphical fidelity and aesthetic choices are far and away better.
4; The characters are far and a way better. The way they interact with the player character, the way they are scripted and the way the story is imparted is just leagues ahead of what Skyrim provides.
5; The story - thus far - is way better. It's pacing, its delivery and its content is just better. Skyrim had allot of potential, it had a great pretense and idea, it just fell on its face from a great height with its delivery.

Obviously, this is all pretty much subjective opinion. But it's what I genuinely think, I'm not even sure that Far Cry 3 is considered an RPG, but based on the properties of what both games offer and the fact that Skyrim IS considered an RPG, I feel that the comparison is somewhat valid.

What do you think?

Uhh, nope. RPG means ROLE PLAYING game. The concept is that you can play any role you choose with RPGs, now you are often one thing (the chosen one, the dragonborn, etc.) and your mythos is set, but you get to choose who that person is: Name, stats, how they act, how they play.

Jason Brodie is Jason Brodie. He shoots things. He goes native crazy. He stabs tigers. He drives like a jackass with no peripheral vision controlling the wheel with his pinky.

And while the story is WONDERFUL, and IMMERSIVE don't get me wrong, that doesn't make it an RPG.

Far Cry 3 is a great game, probably my favorite of last year, but it's not an RPG by any stretch even if it does have XP, and a skill tree.

One other thing I'd like to note, while I'm up on the soapbox anyway: Any RPG that doesn't block off one path when you take another is kind of shit. Yes, it is very fun to get to the end of a Bethesda game and be this overpowered beast that can do everything... But it makes little to no sense and offers little to no feeling of uniqueness.

If I'm big and strong, I'm not agile, I can be in between to a nice degree, but not both extremes at once. Things like this really add to role playing as they enhance your sense of your character.

Finally, to the OP: I will say that I might like Far Cry 3 more than Skyrim though... I mean hard to say, it's like comparing a mountain of various foreign chocolates of assorted quality from awesome to suck that takes a day to get through to an extremely well made king sized candy bar... But the term 'trimming the fat' exists for a reason... Plus Far Cry 3's story is EXTREMELY well done, and is an amazing bit of escapism fiction that you can just live. (You can live out Skyrim a bit more, especially with human needs mods, but it's still not the same. I can identify with going skydiving on vacation and getting taken hostage by pirates... I don't often wander through the outskirts of Skyrim and get arrested.)

And Blood Dragon will be better than Skyrim hands down because FUCKING DRAGONS WITH LASERS!!!

vasiD:
Uhh, nope. RPG means ROLE PLAYING game. The concept is that you can play any role you choose with RPGs, now you are often one thing (the chosen one, the dragonborn, etc.) and your mythos is set, but you get to choose who that person is: Name, stats, how they act, how they play.

So... Final Fantasy isn't an RPG?

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