Kaidan vs Ashley: who to save
Ashley
53.4% (238)
53.4% (238)
Kaidan
46.6% (208)
46.6% (208)
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Poll: Mass Effect: Kaidan vs Ashley who to save

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I saved Kaiden, because in addition to being a better person than Ashley, it was also a better ending to her story than it is for Kaiden. With Ashley dying, her family name is vindicated and her sacrifice means something. Kaiden dying really doesn't work as an ending to his story.

norashepard:
I suppose Kaidan might be the same for a male Shepard but I wouldn't know because apparently all he wanted was my vagina and wasn't interested in talking to me more than for romance.

You have met men before right?

OT: I killed Kaiden, First play thorough I was romancing Ash so it was an easy choice. 2nd he did a good job of manning up and saying hed take one for the team, game wise I was also a Sentinel so he doubled up on my skill set.

Kaiden has no redeeming features whatsoever. His personality is "Has headaches sometimes", and I only know that because a character more interesting than him mentioned it to me. I agonized over the decision on who to leave with Kirrahe's team for ages, only because I wasn't sure which was the choice that would lead to his death. Recently, I replayed The Knights of The Old Republic as a female character, completed his romance, and fell to the dark side just for a chance to kill him off once again. (So worth it)

Point being, save Ashley. If you eventually decide you hate her you can always kill her off later. Don't endure Kaiden's non-presence for a second longer than you have to.

Professor Lupin Madblood:
The thing that I think most people dislike about Kaiden is that he's a grounded, pretty real character. Everyone else on the USS Daddy Issues that is the Normandy is either a massive space elite (Shepard him/herself is basically a Navy SEAL, Red Beret, SAS, JTF2, etc. several times over) or an archetype in some way. Kaiden kind of subverts that, in that he's been through a lot, but he tries to keep a level head about most of it.

Naturally, I think a lot of people see him as the downer on missions, since he is the most grounded person on the Normandy, so that just morphs into more general dislike.

Personally, I much prefer Kaiden's neutrality to Ashley's not-space-racism-but-space-racism. He really comes into his own as a character in ME3, and there are a lot of touching and funny moments.

Also, if you're worried about the Geth defusing the bomb, don't be. The outcome is the same no matter who you send to get nuked.

Also, protip? Most of Zaeed's stories end with "I was the only one who got out alive" for a reason. I love the guy dearly, but he isn't the best person to put in charge of other people.

YES! THIS! *gives cookie*

LetalisK:
I also never understood how people take moral stands on Ashley, yet I never hear anything about Wrex. He's a gun-for-hire that shows little care for the deaths of innocents, yet no moral outrage over that.

Well, for one it's because Wrex is such a cool badass bro. Second, it's because he isn't that bloodthirsty considering how the rest of his people are typically portrayed. You find out in ME1 that he was really pushing for his people to stop fighting and to focus on saving their species as well as to try to open up diplomatic channels with the Citadel again. While there were krogan that agreed with him, there were many that didn't, including his father, who tried to kill him on sacred ground during a diplomatic meeting. After that, he became a bit disheartened because so many of his people were more interested in mindless violence than their future.
Keep him alive, and he can actually save his people, returning their honor and hope, and making them more than just brutal thugs to the rest of the galaxy. As long as you aren't a total dickhead to him and his anyway.

Back on topic, I always save Kaidan. I just loved his character, whereas Ashley, I never got attached to. Besides, he's well worth saving for reasons other than that.

- As he's a lieutenant and because he has led people before, I made him the leader of one of the salarian strike teams. So, if I were to save Ash instead, I'd be condemning all of them to death, not just Kaidan, so I felt more inclined to save them over her. (of course, you may play it different where their roles are reversed, so this may not be relevant to all)
- He doesn't bitch nearly as much at you. Ash pitches a fit if you pick her over Kaidan, and in the next two games she generally is bitchier towards you (namely on Mars and the standoff during the coup) than Kaidan is.
- Her class is redundant. Chances are, you played as a soldier at some point in the Mass Effect series (about 50% of all Shepards are soldiers), so right off the bat there she's useless. Add in the fact that in the next two games you get three more soldier squadmates, her uselessness is further cemented. Kaidan however, as a sentinel is much more useful as it's one of the least popular picked classes for Shepard (thus, his talents are less likely to repeat your own), and you only get one other sentinel, and she's built very different from Kaidan (she's more built for casting whereas Kaidan is more tanky but still cast some).
- There's a chance that she'll kill Wrex. So besides being a bitch for killing one of the coolest characters in the entire series, she potentially dooms the krogan as a whole because of it (without Wrex to reign in the krogan, they don't gain any favors with any of the other races and are more prone to driving themselves towards extinction).
- Kaidan interacts way more with everyone else. Again, this could be more of a personal preference, but I'd rather have that than miss antisocial. (this is more noticeable in the Citadel DLC)

Jacco:
Man. The hatred for the religious here is... disconcerting.

Ashley isn't really that xenophobic or religious. And her views don't just come out unless you actively talk to her. She doesn't just shout religious things in the middle of combat. And by ME3 she's pretty good friends with the other members of the team. Her and Tali get along pretty well.

I always thought that was a lame reason to dislike her as well. It's not like she starts berating anyone to convert.

Heck the only thing we know about her religion is that she believes in God. Thane, Samara, and Mordin have all talked more in-depth about their religious views, but no one seems bothered by that.

Nobody gives Kaiden a fucking chance, he's one of the most interesting characters in the series, if you get to know him. Plus he has one of the best backstories if you ask me.

Does it bother anyone else than Kaiden and Ashley have identical story-arcs in ME2 and ME3, despite being two totally different and distinct characters with separate personalities? It's almost like they become quantum entangled after Virmire and thus somehow appear in all the same situations and make all the same decisions, even when it comes down to what color to wear.

I mean why?

Shouldn't their stories branch off and go in different directions? What are the odds they would both choose to go to New Horizons, survive the collector attack, meet Shepherd, and choose not to trust him due to Cerberus? Ashley is a human with xenophobic tendencies, wouldn't she be the most likely to trust Cerberus of anyone?

And that's just ME2, it gets even worse in ME3.

I would kill them both if I could
I would rather not hang around with them for the rest of the game

Kaiden wins every time. Why?

Putting this in spoiler because it does contain one for those who haven't played the first game.

kaidan is the way to go. most people would say hes the most boring person, but that's because hes the most functional person. kaidan does not have any major mental problems, sure hes gets headaches once and awhile but he never lets them get in the way of the job. kaidan is what we would call a good all around soldier with his head in the game.

ash is a ignorant racist who still believes in god in a galaxy full of aliens and borg like creatures who want to eat every one. what kind of god would make reapers! i made the world and man kind in the image of me, now time to make devil machines to kill them ./lulz

Space Racist or Space Shinji?

Space Shinji at least has some character development and is a class that doesn't repeat too much. Also he isn't as much of an ass to you in the later games.

The Amazing Space Racist on the other hand though only gets bitchier as the series goes on, tries to act like she's better than you and everyone else (seriously, she quotes old poetry out of nowhere for no reason most of the time. Its appropriate MAYBE one time she does it). She DOES get a sexed-up makeover in the last game though (ironically to try and make people like her more) but by that time you've already got people like Miranda, Samara, Kelly etc. Her class is also repeated too much, and by better characters too (Zaeed for example).

Ashley of course, she was perfect, no faults at all. Great body, great personality,, nice backstory, I wish I could marry her.

I based my decision on who to kill/save purely on who I needed the most, I found Kaidan was a far more useful squad member than Ashley in the first Mass Effect. I did start the romance plotline with Ashley first so I could feel angsty about sacrificing her for the greater good.

Kaiden. Dull, but actually chummy and not a complete asshole. Also serves as an insight into the tech of the world (the implants used by Biotics), and as a juxtaposition with Shepard in regards to being a skilled but not exceptional soldier who has been through some odd stuff, but a parallel in that he's actually a functional human being, not some sack of emotions or stonewalling traits. Useful in combat too, if you're not rolling with the obvious choice of Garrus and Wrex.

Ash was a racist Christian with daddy issues on a spaceship filled with aliens with many different beliefs. She sucked in combat. She was annoying and/or boring in all bar about 2 conversations in the game, and progressively became more of a bitch. Plus, Ashley's face looked like someone hung some flesh over a brick wall.

So yeah, save Kaiden.

Well I chose Kaidan, mostly because he doesn't go all super bitch like Ashley does and he doesn't shoot Wrex for no damn reason when I was about to talk him down, thus forcing me to reload my damn game and half of that mission on Feros and the whole damn Virmire mission.

Nocturnus:
Kaiden wins every time. Why?

soren7550:

- There's a chance that she'll kill Wrex. So besides being a bitch for killing one of the coolest characters in the entire series, she potentially dooms the krogan as a whole because of it (without Wrex to reign in the krogan, they don't gain any favors with any of the other races and are more prone to driving themselves towards extinction).

How do you guys mistakenly get Wrex killed? I always thought it was way easy to avoid it. You literally have to do one particular side quest and you're good. Or be persuasive.

- Kaidan interacts way more with everyone else. Again, this could be more of a personal preference, but I'd rather have that than miss antisocial. (this is more noticeable in the Citadel DLC)

I haven't played the Citadel DLC yet(still going through ME2 right now), but I did look up the Ashley romance in it and it's fucking pathetic. She has some good lines, but she's pretty much ignored compared to the others. I know they like to focus on Liara way more than the other romances, but holy shit.

Also, I second your comment about her being a Soldier. Even if you don't play a Soldier, there is no reason to bring a Soldier. The AI can't shoot for shit, so they're just there for powers. Enter Kaiden.

Joshimodo:

Ash was a racist Christian with daddy issues

She was one of the few members of the Normandy that had a good relationship with her dad.

I always save Ash, I find I cant do any less considering she is by far and large the most interesting character in ME1. She has a healthy family life and she shows her respect of the entire military by marching straight in even though she was never guaranteed promotion, simply because she felt it was her duty to serve. I also admire her devotion to her sisters and her faith. All in all probably my favorite character (second is Garrus followed by Wrex)

As a side thought, I can't believe she is winning in this poll... most tend to think of her as racist and a bible thumper, when they just don't realize that she is right and the Council (vocalized by the Asari counselor) was planning on throwing the humans away for more time, and generally she brings up religion all of 1 time in ME1. (off mentions of God other times but I don't see anybody jumping on the Asari for constantly saying "By the Goddess!")

LetalisK:
She was one of the few members of the Normandy that had a good relationship with her dad.

She also has...daddy issues! She hates that her father never "became" anything, had to help raise her family, blindly follows her family's "tradition", and has lingering issues with her ancestor's surrender at in the first contact war.

LetalisK:

Nocturnus:
Kaiden wins every time. Why?

soren7550:

- There's a chance that she'll kill Wrex. So besides being a bitch for killing one of the coolest characters in the entire series, she potentially dooms the krogan as a whole because of it (without Wrex to reign in the krogan, they don't gain any favors with any of the other races and are more prone to driving themselves towards extinction).

How do you guys mistakenly get Wrex killed? I always thought it was way easy to avoid it. You literally have to do one particular side quest and you're good. Or be persuasive.

I didn't let Wrex die, I just said that there's a chance that she'll kill him. I ain't letting that beiotch kill mah bro!

And yeah, it's fairly easy to avoid him dying.

Joshimodo:

LetalisK:
She was one of the few members of the Normandy that had a good relationship with her dad.

She also has...daddy issues! She hates that her father never "became" anything, had to help raise her family, blindly follows her family's "tradition", and has lingering issues with her ancestor's surrender at in the first contact war.

And all that anger is directed at the Alliance. She doesn't fault her father for making hard decisions, adores him, and knew exactly what she was getting into when she followed in his footsteps. She doesn't have daddy issues. Maybe Alliance issues. >.>

Edit: Not even "maybe", she definitely has Alliance issues. She's pissed at them for how she perceives her family was treated by them and feels they're not standing up for their own citizens.

For me, Kaidan was the lesser of two evils. He and Ashley were both pretty bland characters particularly when you stack them against Garrus and Wrex. I saved Kaidan because he's this well rounded, level headed, normal soldier. He doesn't have any issues or chips on his shoulder, he's just a squad mate who's along for the ride.

LetalisK:
Simply believing in god does not make one a fundamentalist. And xenophobe is a gross exaggeration. At worst, she distrusts aliens, but even that is developed into simply wanting the Alliance to be strong enough to not have to rely on them(and what with self-reliance being a core value of hers, this is hardly surprising). She's one of the few characters that has an arc of much substance, Garrus being the other. I also never understood how people take moral stands on Ashley, yet I never hear anything about Wrex. He's a gun-for-hire that shows little care for the deaths of innocents, yet no moral outrage over that.

I agree with everything you said here and it's why I save Ashley every time, to me Kaidan is very irritating with that bland attitude, he's just there, like the plaster on your walls.

lunavixen:

LetalisK:
Simply believing in god does not make one a fundamentalist. And xenophobe is a gross exaggeration. At worst, she distrusts aliens, but even that is developed into simply wanting the Alliance to be strong enough to not have to rely on them(and what with self-reliance being a core value of hers, this is hardly surprising). She's one of the few characters that has an arc of much substance, Garrus being the other. I also never understood how people take moral stands on Ashley, yet I never hear anything about Wrex. He's a gun-for-hire that shows little care for the deaths of innocents, yet no moral outrage over that.

I agree with everything you said here and it's why I save Ashley every time, to me Kaidan is very irritating with that bland attitude, he's just there, like the plaster on your walls.

The funny thing is, I still killed off Ashley almost every time. Kaiden was just more useful to me as a squadmate.

I always pick Ashley, because boobs.

Save Kaiden. Ashley is cool and all, but her character does a 180 in the third game.

LetalisK:
The funny thing is, I still killed off Ashley almost every time. Kaiden was just more useful to me as a squadmate.

The thing is, I played as a sentinel, rendering Kaidan moot, giving me more reason to stick him with the bomb and leave him there, and i've certainly never romanced him (never will). But yeah, it depends on your play style

Ashley will follow orders Kaiden will whine. His heart may be in the right place but like Carth he just sat on the ship if I had any choice. Since the way I play I would either have shot Kaiden myself or ignored him to death at least he dies a hero and I fulfilled his wish.

I thought Kaiden was going to leave after the intro mission. That's how little impact his "character" had on me. He is so uninteresting that I don't think I've talked to him in-game EVER. In any playthrough.

So, yeah. I didn't even have to think twice about killing him off.

I almost always save Ashley, but not because I don't like Kaiden. To the contrary, I think he's a great guy. The thing about those two is that when you meet them in the first game, Kaiden is level-headed, well-adjusted, and fairly intelligent. Or, as so many others see him, 'boring.' I'll let you guess if I agree. Ashley, on the other hand... is not. She is not in a good place by the first game. At all. Kaiden has, by and large, sorted his shit out, and is at peace with his life and the galaxy in general. Ashley still has a lot in her life to take care of, so I give her the chance to do so.

Basically, I feel that between the two of them, Kaiden has the least regrets in his life. Ash has many, and needs time to work through them. So I help her do so.

Lilani:
I saved Kaiden. He may be bland, but Ashley had only one distinguishing feature, and that was being a xenophobe. I'd rather have a loyal blank sheet of paper on my side than a spunky character who I'm afraid might "accidentally" loose some friendly fire on the other members of the squad.


OP: She questioned me trusting Wrex and Garrus and she snapped at Liara after every mission. Kaidan followed orders and occasionally made jokes. The most difficult part of that mission was feigning sadness to the crew after her timely death.

Ashley! I saved her all 17 play throughs of the game... Never did her romance, never cared about her character, she was always just an object to me... a high health, soldier tanking wall of death object that would take bullets allowing my adept to laugh in the background :D

I hated both of them. Seriously when this choice came up I was like: "can't I leave both of them?". I chose to keep Kaiden though as he seemed slightly less annoying than Ashley (killed him in ME3 though).

Kaidan is boring and Ashley is actively unpleasant.
So Kaidan.

Kaiden was boring until ME3 when I actually started to like him. However, I have always hated Ashley.

The last time I played Mass Effect I saved Ashley's life, but made a point of berating her whenever possible.

Save Ashley. She's got a good arc over the game series if you support it (i.e. make her more trusting of non-humans), and she's an absolute monster in ME3 Combat, packing abilities to handle every threat and second only in tankiness to Sentinel/Soldier Shepard and James.

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