EDIT TOPIC:

This started as a simple discussion of game franchises reaching the end of their days(See original below). However, more questions have been raised, such as; what makes a franchise last? What makes a "Classic" game?

Mario has been stomping on gumbas for nearly 2 decades now, and yet we still pick up and play the games whenever they're released. Interestingly enough, the originals, now ages old, are still fun to play. Other games, take Quake, for example, are fun while they last but die out quickly.

An apt comparison for this phenomenon is Classic Literature. Though it's quite a stretch to compare Super Mario 64 to, say Dickens' "Great Expectations," it is a nice example. The reason books like Great Expectations, written years ago, are still thought in classrooms today is because regardless of historical context, the themes of the novel still apply.

Mario 64 was a launch title for the N64, yet it is still easily playable and fun today. This is one of the reasons i rank it as one of the best games ever made, as Great Expectations is often thought of as the greatest novel.

If Mario is Great Expectations, then is Halo Harry Potter? the Da Vinci Code? a page-turning. . . game. Its wildly popular, fun while it lasts, but is at its core only above average.

So What makes a franchise last forever? Nostalgia, simple gameplay, memorable characters?

Discuss!

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There are a number of game franchises that seem to have been going on since. . well, eternity, but have never really been all that good. For these games, "milking the cash cow for all it's worth" is an understatement. These games suffer from developers thinking if one is good, they all are, but seriously, game design is supposed to be creative, and there are some games that just won't die.

On the other hand, there are some "classic" games which will inevitably last forever, like Mario and Zelda.

----Terminal Games----

Tomb Raider:

Face it, there are only two reasons this game had any success. They're two very large, luscious reasons, but they're still the only things keeping this franchise alive. When you actually look at it, there isn't really much of a game behind the boobs- controlling Lara feels like pushing a giant boulder made of jello up a cliff; and since when can lions absorb 900 bullets? Having to empty three clips into a jungle cat is hardly satisfying. The series is basically the same mediocre platformer which has been done far too many times, with each iteration becoming less and less original or fun. I think its time for the developers to kill this franchise, or send Lara back to a training-bra and make a game that doesn't suck.

Dynasty Warriors:

Heres the recipe for making a Dynasty Warriors game: take the original, copy and paste. That's it. They're all the same, and none of them are fun. The game promises massive, LOTR style epic battles, and delivers ludicrously easy, poorly designed and empty missions. The button-mashing fighting scheme is about as interesting as typing in a word processor. There was one sly attempt to market "Samurai Warriors," but it is, yet again, exactly the same game. I don't care how many idiots buy them, please for the love of god stop.

The "Conflict" series:

This is pretty self-explanatory: http://www.metacritic.com/search/process?sb=0&tfs=all&ts=conflict&ty=3&x=31&y=18

Your games suck, stop making them.

----Personal Choices----

Command & Conquer:

Don't get me wrong, I love the series, it's a classic. But ever since C&C 2, and Westwood was consumed by those money-hoarding, game-ruining bastards a EA, it has lost its soul. I know "Tiberium Sun" has received good reviews, but it's just not the same. Please stop shitting on my favorite rts, EA.

CryEverything:

We get it, you're company's name is "Crytek," you made the "CryEngine," but Jesus, guys, "FarCry," "Crysis"? Get over yourselves. They've made a lovely game engine, but they keep making games that take place on the same island with the same plot and the same motherfucking palm trees. And whats the deal with these huge battles on some deserted island? I'm not sure what the plot of Crysis is, but I think once we've developed Nano-Suits, we won't be fighting over some godforsaken jungle. The CryEngine is awesome, but instead of using it for what it's made for: huge, open, beautifully rendered worlds, which could be used to make awesome cities with expansive plotlines and freedom of pursuit, we get the same linear shooter over and over again. For fucksake, guys, think of a NEW GAME!

James Bond:

As long as there are guns, and as long as there are women, there will be bond movies. And as long as there are bond movies, there will be the accompanying games. Goldeneye is not only the only good game based on a film, but it's also one of the most famous shooters ever. That flame isn't going to reignite, so stop trying.

Both of these topics are up for a (hopefully well-thought and rational) discussion! Give me you thoughts, opinions, and arguments!

Sonic. Though that's painfully obvious to anyone who's played a sonic game in the past 5 years.

Well, C&C Generals was a load of fast paced action and fun for me. I loved it. I don't know about the more traditional C&C, but I quite loathe the mediocre FPS iteration.

On the other hand, your reasoning behind your choices often seems to be a reaction to the age and repetition of the franchise.
That way, you could add Pro Evolution Soccer, Devil May Cry, Prince of Persia, Silent Hill, etc. But it wouldn't feel right.

The franchises which would be put to an end would logically be those which don't get any better every time an new opus gets made.

Tomb Raider is a good choice.

Am I the only person who enjoyed Tomb Raider: Legend?

I loved Legend and Anniversary.
The only one of those I agree with is the Dynasty Warriors games.

The others still have plenty of life in them yet.

Medal of honor - I don't know if i have ever enjoyed one of these games, yet i always rent the damn thing when they come out expecting them to not repeat shit games from the past

Sonic - its painful that a game that peaked in the days of genesis can still try to have a following with games like these (case and point - secret rings blew hard)

Final Fantasy - They were alright up to and including 7, but I don't even bother with any of the new ones, due mainly to horrible reviews

Sonic, Mario, Zelda the undead immortal 3 that can infact never die but rather than eat brains play tennis or go golfing.

This may seem a bit... unsuported, but anyway:
Trackmania.
I dunno about you, but myself I loved the first games. They felt so new in some way, although the graphics weren't good by comparison even back then. I build 76 tracks for the demo of the first expansion set and then ordered Original from france. The price - a mere 150SEK (about $8) - only added to the feeling that nadeo made games mainly for us to enjoy, rather than to make lots of cash (EA anyone?). The sunshine extreme DemoMag with trick and platforming modes made the games even more fun, but then something happened between Nations and United. With Nations TM became a big, well known series, but it wasn't as fun in some way. The humorous driving got replaced by more competitive races with no space for spinoffs. Sure, it was a freeware, but when United came it included nothing new but instead consisted of all old games - and cost about twice as much as all old games together!

Like eggdogg said about C&C, it has lost it's soul. I've tried United but there's something about it that makes it less fun, even though I've got 20X more cash than in my old Speed-only demo.

I don't mind if a series repeats itself endlessly, not getting any better. Only if something becomes worse it sucks

[...] of mana
those DS games are sooo disappointing

Need For Speed : The Fast and the Furious has done many bad things for the car modding scene and I'm sick and fucking tired of EA pumping out the same old shite since then. I can actually visualise a room full of Armani suits in an EA board meeting discussing the meaning of various words and phrases that are 'down with the kids', words like shizzle, noob, pwned and probabaly mangina. Just drop it you morons, you're like the embarrasing relative that tries to breakdance at someones wedding after too much scotch.

The Crytek game titles have double meaning, it's not all about the company name (although that it probably the first priority). "Far Cry" is a term meaning "a long distance" and refers to the (at the time, for an FPS) unprecedented draw distances the engine had. "Crysis" of course sounds like "crisis", an emergency, but the substituted Y not only adds the company name, it also refers to the extremely cold temperatures which the aliens chill the island to - "cryogenic". Besides, two enjoyable games out of two does not warrant an end to the franchise.

I would select the entire consistently reiterated EA Sports series, due to them all being the same (can't you just do the accepted thing and make sequels every 3 years?), the Battlefield franchise because they have removed planes entirely, the modding scene has died thanks to lack of support, and the engine is a bit sucky, and buggy as well (1942 was the best IMO), and finally the Zelda series. As Yahtzee said, every game is the same, the combat is boring, and most of the dungeons are filled with unintuitive progression which forces me to check a walkthrough (WHY do I have to start at the entrance every time?).

The Sims.

The Sims never really interested me much. I had a couple friends who became heavily addicted for some reason but the game bored me to death (and I subsequently inflicted this feeling upon my Sims household with the use of fire). But eventually it outsold the previous best selling PC game of all time, Myst.

Half a dozen expansion packs later, a sequel came out, and that game as well had half a dozen expansion packs (as well as a good number of "stuff packs"). They've really been milked for every dime they're worth, and a third game is now in the works too.

Will Wright has made some great games, and the "Sim" games as a whole have brought some extraordinary things to gaming. With the upcoming Spore game being an extension really of the gameplay that has been established and expanded upon in the last twenty years. But "The Sims" and all of it's sequels and expansion packs really have been overkill.

Final Fantasy

Silent hill

yeah, the first one was good, and the second one was AWESOME

but the third one took it back a little, and the fourth took it back so far it fell of a cliff and landed in a vast ocean of failure

as for origins - why the hell did they have to put it on the PSP? what a defiance of logic

Above anything else, IMO, ZELDA!

I mean come on.. I love the Zelda games but honestly, come up with a new and/or interesting spin to the whole concept or just give it up you fuckers!

I mean, what's next? Zelda and the Inspirationless Adventure of Mediocrity?

Star Wars.
Mario.
Lego designed for people under the age of 6.
Everything that has made at least 2 sequels.

The Sims should never have happened, but at the same time, holy hell what a money maker.

I've played it for one day, and it still blows my mind how widespread its playing is. I lived in a virtual world for less than 10 hours and more than 10 hours of my actual life were gone.

The concept of spending a portion of your life living the life of some virtual person in all of the mundanity of real life...I...wow.

And there are millions who play it.

I am frightened.

Heroes of Might and Magic

The third game is probably my all time favorite, but the two latest ones are just a pile of carcase.

I can't believe nobody mentioned Mario.. I know that Galaxy got good reviews and so did SM64 along with SMB but in the end they're all fucking same game only adapted to fit the standards current generation of consoles.And don't even get me started on all the spin-off bullshit.

jakub, somes already did if you pay a bit of attention

whoops...

ok, so "developers" (applying that term widely) repeating the same game over and over is a bad thing for older gamers, but for people who havent played a past one, its all good, p.s. i love being able to batter someone at a game that i've never actually (technically) played, and i wouldnt think of depriving those sweaty pimply 13 year olds of the next generation of laras breasts, p.p.s. sonic should die a horrible and gory death involving bleeding soft tissues and its own arse

LordKaT:
Final Fantasy

Agreed. I think once you've broken the 10+ games mark, you need to stop. On another note, Mario games don't quite fit this as most of them are just spin-offs or sports/party titles. I only count the true platformer/adventure titles in the series. Still, if Galaxy is any indication of what's to come, I may actually find myself getting excited by a Mario game again.

TheHound:
Sonic, Mario, Zelda the undead immortal 3 that can infact never die but rather than eat brains play tennis or go golfing.

Yeah... Maybe if they did eat brains their games would be more interesting. Although I DO like the formula for the more "Realistic" Zelda games, and at least appreciate graphic changes.

Chasefowl:
but the third one took it back a little, and the fourth took it back so far it fell of a cliff and landed in a vast ocean of failure

Really? I thought 4 was great. 3 was the only one I didn't feel any affection for, and that's only because I felt bewildered most of the time. It never really occured to me why I needed to empathise with Heather until the end. Maybe that was an intentional storytelling gimmick, but it was lost on me.

as for origins - why the hell did they have to put it on the PSP? what a defiance of logic

You know there's a PS2 port coming, right? Maybe that's not much consolation (one can only hope that at the very least a PS3 port follows if not PS3 and 360) but it's something. Problem is, it wasn't a particularly good game. I hope they expand it when it makes the transition to a new format.

i have to agree with you say all these things just way to far they need to die and even tho he is their face
mario has gone everywhere now from under the sea to of course outer space
mario needs to step aside or something ALL THE CHARACTERS ARE OLD AND DEAD including even crash bandicoot
with a new generation of gaming systems we need a new generation of video game characters
but we are SOL because it seems nintendo doesnt have a origanal cell left in their brain and sony never really had a main character
and the xbox BAH

I have to say, I see way too much Zelda and Mario bashing around here. I say as long as they are fun and engaging (which to me they are, I guess they aren't to others), let them stay.
That being said, Need For Speed needs to take a break, I hope Halo will stop, Sonic needs to take a long, hard look at himself and Medal of Honor should end.
As for Final Fantasy, every one of them is new (pretty much), but the numbering is getting old.
Series that need to make a comeback - Panzer Dragoon, Parasite Eve, Oddworld, Psychonauts and Sly Cooper (but let's try to limit it to Sly, Murray and Bentley)

How has no one suggested Halo? And I agree with Mario and Zelda, they've both long since outlived their usefulness. As for Final fantasy, I cant necessarily agree with everyone on that. At least each game tries to change it up a little for better or worse (The draw system in FF8 can bite me). And you almost always get a new plot, setting, characters and villains unlike a certain fat plumber and a Legolas wanna-be (Link is a friggen elf, I don't care what you say). That being said I really think they should just retire the NAME of Final Fantasy, and continue to make individual JRPG's (I know yahtzee, you think I'm going to hell for such blasphemy) with different names. At the very least maybe their games then wouldn't feel confined to stick with series staples like their summons, and forcibly naming some damn character Cid. And in a closing note lets no forget the games that HOPEFULLY will die with their next iterations. I'm looking at you Metal Gear Solid. There are only so many times you can save the world before you start getting what I like to call the Jack Bauer syndrome.

The Legacy of Kain series, although I have to say that has already been put to death. But sersiously, the first games were great, fun, engaging, and pretty deep for a Gothy Vampire themed adventure. Blood Omen and Blood Omen 2 were fantastic, so was the first Soul Reaver, but Legacy of Kain: Defiance made me puke up a lung. I loved Kain and Raziel being controlled in the same game, but it sucked ROYALLY. The Gameplay was all a mimic of the first two games, the story-line was pretty much Linear, the levels were needlessly complicated and the puzzles took to long, plus they were all basically the same, I feel that it was the right decision to take the old girl behind the shed and shoot her, before Legacy of Kain could further defile the once great games.

The Jack Bauer Syndrome... Well put Makishima

Warcraft. Did anyone notice that the story was becoming quite... bland? For me, it ended with the 3rd installment. Sure, there were lots of questions at the end of the expansion, but WoW made a mockery of the answers. I'm a fan of the entire Blizzard franchise output, but I'm beginning to notice that their games follow a formula that, once brought to light, extinguishes all the magic and mystery from their games. That happened to Diablo 2, for me.

Nintendo is the mother of my hatreds for such franchises: Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda must DIE!

When was the last time Nintendo came out with a new game concept that didn't suck my balls or is horrendously outdated?

I have to say, though, that Warioware is awesome.

cooking mama...

makishima:
How has no one suggested Halo?

b/c halo is already over (as long as you don't include halo wars, but that's different).

We need to kill:

WarCraft.
Final Fantasy.
those dicks that made Animal Crossing.
Metroid had a good run, and I think that they should only make one more game if any, and make it really freakin' fantastic.
Games whose number of sequels exceeds 4

Finally, I think Mario should hang up his plunger. Too many spins-offs just ruined it.
And for the love of god, kill Pokemon off this instant. It is no longer a thriving company, but a Frankenstein monster all in its own.

[quote=[HD]Rob Inglis]Games whose number of sequels exceeds 4.[/quote]

Two words to counter that: Half-Life.