Yes |
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23.1% (3) |
No |
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15.4% (2) |
Khell should work for Relic |
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15.4% (2) |
I like Pie |
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30.8% (4) |
I think you have some good ideas there. I definately agree with your ideas for the Orks; WAAAGH!! energy should almost replace power requirements, or should become a unique resource. Like the SoB use faith and the Dark Eldar use souls in Soulstorm, the WAAAGH!! energy could be used to power up your Orks. If/WHEN Tyranids are introduced, they'll definately need some form of biomass energy that they can collect. This would make them into a rushing army, which is appropriate for them. Have rippers that can gather biomass from slain enemies, which is required for certain units and/or upgrades. Interior maps would be interesting, but space hulk maps might be a bit too small and constraining. Hive cities would be cool though, especially if they could implement some Cities of Death stratagems into it. Army composition is a nice thought, and would definitely tie DoW back to the tabletop more. However, I don't think that the army system in DoW is overly flawed. Changing it for change's sake doesn't always work out well, and it might deter some gamers from trying it out. Custom armies, again, would be an awesome asthetic touch. I personally can't stand how my "Death Guard" in DoW look like World Eaters, instead of all decayed and plaguey. However, it might overcomplicate the game somewhat. I didn't like how Tau players had to choose between a Mont'ka or Kau'yon Command Post, and how certain units were instantly and permanently cut off. The same would apply for other armies...Dark Angels would be able to field all-terminator Deathwing armies, and Ultramarines would have their Tyranid-Hunters-Honor-Guard-Three-Special-Characters uber list (I can't stand Ultramarines, can you tell?) while other chapters would get the shaft. Anyways, all in all your ideas are pretty awesome. Keep on brainstorming! | |
and sorry, as good as your ideas are, I like pie so much more | |
Cake is better :D Now what I proposed is the full meal deal. It can definitely be scaled back. For instance, for Dark Angels, you could make all Terminators just Deathwing skinned (There really isn't much difference aside from look anyways) but still allow both speeders and termies. Maybe their unit additions could simply be having the Master of the Ravenwing as one of their command options, and a Terminator Lord as the other, and being mutually exclusive. Hell, if ALL we got was a more flushed-out army list for each race, and then just ONE unit unique to each faction, I would be happy. There is just so much missing in DoW that are core items. Bikes and Jetbikes from all races, Nids, Devastators or Havocs being destinct from regular marines, variations on many tanks, most of the daemons, and of course proper sized squads. | |
Ideally, the Tyranids should operate on the same level as the Necrons - That is to say, they should have only the one resource (Meaning Biomass). They wouldn't have any need for Requisition or Power. Anyway, I'll see if I can cobble something together approaching the beginnings of a "Here's every possible army you could ever field. Enjoy." mod. | |
I agree that the 'nids should only collect Biomass, but they should still have to capture Strategic points like all the other armies. You could say that these points leech into the planet, absorbing the very essence of the world itself...or something like that. Also, there could be a separate type of biomass, only obtained through combat. It'd be like the Kroot's carnivore ability...when they consume enemy biomass, they power themselves up. lol loving the mod idea. if you need help, let me know. I can do some modelling, animation, and texture work. And if it includes every possible army ever, I DEMAND SQUATS!!! :P | |
Well, it all depends on whether or not I *can* do it, since I've never modded before. I'm pretty much throwing myself in at the deep end here (Well, not at the moment. First comes the planning stage) and hoping I can swim (Or, at the very least, trick myself into believing I can swim). I'll keep your offer in mind, thanks. As for the Nids... An alternate form of Biomass, you say? Hmm. "Basically, the Feeding Pool absorbs nutrients from the soil like a gigantic plant root. The troops themselves, however, tear the enemy a new one and steal their life juices." | |
Exactly. In the Tyranid fluff, it says that they grow stronger after absorbing the biomass of a planet's defenders; they pick up genetic immunities and such. So my idea was that the enemy biomass would either a) add additional health (or something like that) to a 'nid unit immediately, or b) would be collected by a unit like a resource, then at the 'nid equivalent of an armory some upgrades require a certain amount of biomass to research. So 'nids would be tougher the more combat they see. | |
Requesition is required by all armies, but unique to each... To Marines, Requesition is supposedly to represent how much the empire is investing in this particular battle, chaos it is their magical power, and so on. It is not so much a currency, but how much support their army is receiving from their race/faction as a whole. As such, Req is just fine for nids, as it represents how much their hive is investing in the battle. Biomass being a direct currency needed on-site for creation. | |
hmmm, so the 'nids would have two resources to watch then; requisition and biomass? It should work out pretty well; have the 'nids 'listening post' be a synapse node or something like that...the more of them you have, the stronger the connection to the hive mind, and so the faster you collect requisition. Biomass could just be collected via the nids version of a 'power core'. | |
Or harvested from slain enemies... | |
seconded and, i demand nids, i need them, i desire them like i desire sweet cake like substances, i want to see the look on the face of my opponents as i spend all my points/biomass/cap on carnifexes, sweetsies i would add, that i do feel a bit of tension as i consider nids in DoW, what will be the huge uber unit? carnifex? Tyrant? or (oh sweet god yes), the hyrophant... but, i live in anticipation of the day that a tau player has his stealth squads eaten alive by the even more stealthy lictor, ah, poetic irony, even if the poetry is only the rhythmic slashing of scything talons... | |
0.0 "Sir, the radar has picked something twenty yards southeast, approaching quickly!" End Scene. Sorry, got off topic there. Well, in the Tyranid mod of DC, the Uber unit is a Trygon. Oh, it's pretty, it's real pretty. I think a hierophant bio-titan would be a little too big for DoW; they're supposed to be similar in size to a warhound titan. The Trygon is nice, and it makes things go squishy-dead real good. Plus, nothing will scare the bejeesus out of an opponent like seeing a giant ravener appear in their base. Carnifexes would be similar to the predators and other heavy battle tanks. Personally, I would prefer the Carnies be similar to a dreadnought or defiler; lower cost, less health, no production limit. I want to see a good seven carnies on the field...along with a Trygon. The problem with having fully mutable carnies is that: If you restrict it to cc or ranged builds, then you can allow flexibility within those options. Ranged fexes can choose from a variety of rapid-firing anti-infantry weapons or long-range antu-building and anti-tank weapons. Maybe cc fexes could have a range option, but then give them the close-combat weapons standard (kinda like a dreadnought; you can change one set of melee arms into guns, but the other ones stay the same). | |
oh yes, and the sweet cake-like substance is probably cake...and it's a lie. | |
Hmmm. Comments here make me wonder. Lictors could add some comical elements to the game. Stalking stealth units with a Looney Toons kind of sneak music, like Elmer Fudd's hunting Wabbits music... And then there's all the fun tentacle rape the Nids can visit upon the newly added Sisters of Battle... No vile monster, in the name of the emperor cease this, no, no, oh, oh, YES, YES, Yes lictor... Right there.. No, a little left, thats it. Who's my emperor, YOUR my emperor... | |
lol I think either use the Elmer Fudd Pixacato violin notes, or the Pink Panther theme. as for the tentacle rape............sorry, got lost in mental images there :P | |
No worries, I got lost just being mental :D Somehow my brain has re-diverted to images of a Sister of Battle running away at top speed, as a lictor hops along behind in the typical "Pepe lePew" fashion. Who says Looney Toons don't have impact on childrens' minds? | |
lol oh looney toons...so much hidden sexism and rascism. How you lovingly corrupted my childhood. As for the sisters of Battle, they're asking for it. You know any girl who wears fleur-de-lils over their boobs is a total tease :P | |
Excuse me for a moment, I need to go write that fanfic. | |
Hate to break it to you guys, but the Squats are officially extinct. The Squat Homeworlds were devoured by Hive Fleet Kraken; no chance of Land Trains in DoW2 I'm afraid. I quite like the idea about using the army list restrictions instead of an outright squad cap. I found that after a certain amount of power and requisition, it's quite difficult to finish someone off in DOw, as the forces can never be overwhelmingly large (okay - except Necrons and their damn regeneration). | |
[quote=dan_the_manatee]Hate to break it to you guys, but the Squats are officially extinct. The Squat Homeworlds were devoured by Hive Fleet Kraken; no chance of Land Trains in DoW2 I'm afraid.quote] lol in the tabletop game, eldar players can field Eldrad Ulthran, and he's supposedly dead as well. It's called a tribute army. | |
No Land Train? What about a woman train? :p Squats to me weren't of any interest. I'm not a dwarf fan at all, and if there's one race I miss its not a bunch of half-height hammer-swingin marine wannabies. I want Space Dragons! | |
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I unfortunately do not work for Relic, Games Workshop, THQ, or anyone who may have some influence on how DoW2 gets made. Man I wish I did, because in my mind I can envision the perfect way to make the next Dawn of War seem more like its tabletop 40K counterpart. These are just my ideas and opinions, feel free to add your own, but this is how I see it.
1. Engine
I am rather pleased with how DoW1 worked, but I don't think that the current DoW engine will work out for what I plan. In light of this, I would be inclined to make the following alterations to the engine. First, I would change the base resources. Requesition is fine, and works pretty universally, power however needs to be changed. What I would suggest would be a unique resource for each race, each with their own method of gathering.
Orks - Waaagh. Change Waaagh so that it is a gathered and spendable resource instead of a unit limit increase. Give Orks their maximum unit limits right off the bat, and instead of Towers gathering Waaagh, every recruited Orc should generate a small amount of Waaagh. The more Orks you buy, the more Waaagh. It is much more fitting to their army.
Eldar / Dark Eldar - Instead of power, maybe something tied to the webway. Buildable collectors that need to be built on nexus points visible only to said races, or maybe buildable only if connected to certain buildings.
Marines - Power as per normal
Chaos - Dark Power. Essentially the same damn thing, but perverted.
Tau - I honestly can't think of a unique resource for Tau
IG - Devotion. The presence of ranking units (Squad leaders, commisars, captains) generates Devotion to the army.
Necrons - Again, no ideas.
Tyranids - Biomass. Harvested from slain organics, and produced from slow-working "buildings" that leach the land itself (maybe as part of the main base).
SoB - Faith, generated from killing unholy units and by the presence of the Cannoness.
1. Overworld Adjustments
Small changes needed. One, a further zoomed out level to view the game. Two, larger maps. Three, more varied battlefield templates including aboard spacecraft, underground structures/caverns, and maybe something for battling on a Craftworld or Space Hulk.
3. Army Composition
My big change...
I want the units to more closely reflect the building of an army in actual 40K. First, and most importantly, I want units re-divided into the 40K categories of HQ, Troops, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, and Elite. Instead of a general unit cap, I want the unit limit to be measured similar to thus; Small Army, Medium Army, Large Army, Epic Army. You would select the army limit when creating a game, and campaign missions would indicate your army size limits.
Armies would be based on the limitations of a "Small Army". Medium armies are equal to two Small armies, Large armies are the same as three small, and Epic are four small. The exception to this is that HQ units would only increase by 1 HQ unit per size (Small army has 2 HQ, Medium has 3, Large is 4, Epic 5) The definition of a small army would be:
2 HQ units, 3 Elites, 6 Troops, 3 Fast Attack, and 3 Heavy Support.
For buildings, there would be an HQ building, a Troops building, a Fast Attack, etc... Troops and upgrades would be built in their appropriate buildings, and come from that type's unit cap. For instance, Space Marines built from the Heavy Support building would actually be Devastators, and would allow the four heavy weapon upgrades. The same marines built in the troop barracks would be regular marines, and be limited to their one heavy weapon and one plasma or flamer.
The part I'd MOST like to see, if the above ever DID get implemented, would be the different factions and custom armies.
To build an army, you would get the base army template with all the core troops. Take Chaos marines... You then select the subtemplate which would be one of the faction it represents. In this case, we'll do Iron Warriors. Iron Warriors would loose Raptors and a Daemons, and their "army" limits would change from 3 Fast and 3 Support to 1 Fast and 4 Support.
How about Space Marines. We take the core Marines template, then the Dark Angels subtemplate. The angels loose Terminators and gain Deathwing, as well they gain the Ravenwing and Master of the Ravenwing. When playing, the game, your commander choice determines if you go Ravenwing or Deathwing (Like Tau paths), and you get the appropriate units.
Custom armies would be the same as they are now, but you'd base it on the subtemplate chosen, so you could make a World-Eaters style race, just colored in blue. Customizing what units go into the army could be added, but that would take another half-hour of typing to lay out and my hands hurt.
So, am I totally off my frakin rocker, or do you think this would make the game better? I know doing such extensive changes would take them much MUCH longer to make DoW2, but damnit, this is how the game should have been from the start IMHO.