I find it funny that people always bring up sleeping with and/or killing hookers when citing reasons they don't want to play this game.

So far, I've put in about 12 hours of play time, and the number of hookers or even civilians I've killed is 0. The closest was during one mission, I was ducked behind a car I was trying to lift fighting off thugs who didn't want me to lift it. A civilian gets spooked when I unload a shotgun round into the door of the car that the thug is hiding behind. The civilian then runs right in between us to get mowed down by the thugs SMG fire.

Mostly, I've been playing through the story of the game, which has me pretty interested so far. Been bowling and playing pool a bunch too.

I've been playing it pretty much non-stop for the past couple of days and think this is quite possibly the best game ever made. Wait, don't lynch me yet! The hype for the game is ridiculous, as is IGN's review. The game isn't perfect- if you don't like GTA then this game probably isn't going to change your mind.

But the attention to detail is staggering. Little details you see in the game world help to make it all the more realistic. Police arresting other people. Random crazy coke-heads that give you money for no reason. People engaging in conversation. I walked round the back of a house in a nice area to find people having a barbecue. The way you can make some people leave their car just by pointing a gun at them, whilst others will back up and drive off and others will just try to run you over. It's a result of the more focused attempt Rockstar have taken at simulating a city and it's without a doubt the most complete videogame world ever made. I could lose myself in it for weeks and still not have seen everything.

Perhaps my favorite experience so far occurred when I was stealing a car. Having pointed my gun at the guy sitting in the car, he tried to run me over. So I shot him, and his passenger got out and tried to beat me up. Ignoring him, I get in the car and try to drive off but this guy starts banging on the window. He grabs the door handle and I hit the accelerator. He doesn't let go. I dragged him for about 3 blocks before he finally let go, screaming in pain.

Stuff like this happens all the time in the game, and I'm fascinated to see what it's going to throw at me next. So all you naysayers about the hype of the game can moan all you want, but look past the hype and there's still an incredible game there.

I haven't read through this thread to get these questions answered, but this forums members type a lot >_>

Anyway, here are my questions:

1.) I hear the missions are still crap, the story is cool, but it's still "pick up this persons car, BUT OH MAH GAWD 'TIZ AN AMBUSH!" - and things like that....is that true?

2.) The reviewers and critics over-reacted, it's great game and the city is amazing, but it's still just GTA. What gave this a 10 everywhere? Is it how detailed the city is?

god damn. my copy still hasn't come in from ebay =| (the version they sell in australia is censored)

everyone is raving about it.

good thing about Rockstar is that they aren't afraid to take out the dull stuff they implemented. ie. having to eat, work out, ambulance missions, fire truck missions

one thing i wanted to know, is the gang system that was in san adreas, in GTA 4..?

i found that a really cool feature.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
I haven't read through this thread to get these questions answered, but this forums members type a lot >_>

Anyway, here are my questions:

1.) I hear the missions are still crap, the story is cool, but it's still "pick up this persons car, BUT OH MAH GAWD 'TIZ AN AMBUSH!" - and things like that....is that true?

2.) The reviewers and critics over-reacted, it's great game and the city is amazing, but it's still just GTA. What gave this a 10 everywhere? Is it how detailed the city is?

you say "it's just GTA" as if being GTA is a reason to not get a 10. every installment as been rated highly, so why would you be surprised that the best installment gets a 10..?

curryinc:
god damn. my copy still hasn't come in from ebay =| (the version they sell in australia is censored)

everyone is raving about it.

good thing about Rockstar is that they aren't afraid to take out the dull stuff they implemented. ie. having to eat, work out, ambulance missions, fire truck missions

one thing i wanted to know, is the gang system that was in san adreas, in GTA 4..?

i found that a really cool feature.

unfortunately, no. Well, at least not where I am. I'm like 40% done with the game so it might come later, but I doubt it.

curryinc:

you say "it's just GTA" as if being GTA is a reason to not get a 10. every installment as been rated highly, so why would you be surprised that the best installment gets a 10..?

When I say "Just GTA" it's to make my post short - I'm not gonna go into detail about how all the previous GTA games had their flaws and things like that, this is a GTA IV discussion thread, so I assume everyone knows what I'm talking about.

Now stop patronizing me mr. literal

Doug:
I have to say, I love that article - Its sad though that the gutter papers still try and pin things on video game. And I do feel sorry for Australian gamers who have to put up with that BS from their government

Surprisingly, it's not our media which is the problem. On one of our morning shows (Sunrise, if you live here), on the 1/5/08, presented an bit on GTA4, and the tech guy actually said "I would recommend this game to anyone who is over 15. It's a good game, but not for those under 15."

No, it's some polititians, such as Michael Atkinson. They believe it will negatively impact on children, even though the evidence doesn't back it up, and they are under fire for it.

ElArabDeMagnifico:

1.) I hear the missions are still crap, the story is cool, but it's still "pick up this persons car, BUT OH MAH GAWD 'TIZ AN AMBUSH!" - and things like that....is that true?

2.) The reviewers and critics over-reacted, it's great game and the city is amazing, but it's still just GTA. What gave this a 10 everywhere? Is it how detailed the city is?

1.) Though you do still see those missions, you will often see more interesting variants (e.g. having to go on a date with a gay guy who's late on payments to a loan shark and then killing him) on that formula, together with interesting moral choices at certain points in the game. The missions do still tend to follow that formula though. The conversations that occur during these missions help to make them more interesting and they're implemented much more smoothly than they were in the past.

2.) It is a 10/10 game, if you're using that scale. Due to the detail in the city, the amount of things you can do, the excellence of the multiplayer and the amount of problems that have been fixed for the game, it is undoubtedly one of the best games ever made (based on what I have seen so far). I dislike the 'out of 10' system because no game is absolutely perfect. A percentage system leaves more margin for error and slightly more focused reviews. If I were to give it a review it would score at least 94% or higher.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
I haven't read through this thread to get these questions answered, but this forums members type a lot >_>

In fact this is the reason many of us come here, because we're tired of internet meme's, slurs, and people who just want to see their name said on the internet.

ElArabDeMagnifico:

2.) The reviewers and critics over-reacted, it's great game and the city is amazing, but it's still just GTA. What gave this a 10 everywhere? Is it how detailed the city is?

Think of it like this. If you see a movie with 5 stars it means that the person reviewing the movie had a good time and thinks everyone would find something about it they liked. I agree that the 1-10 scale is confusing and probably unnecessary. The 1-100 scale in my opinion even more-so. I don't think we need 10 degrees of separation between utter dross and a critical triumph. To be honest I think the 1-10 scale panders to anal-retentive people who like to argue about things like "how much drift ratio a specific model of car should have."

Doug:

Valaska:
Nicko this time seems to have a really rich back story and some good lines, I assume he was in the Afghani war when he was just basically a kid, and his whole intro video explaining him really took me aback, especially when the quote "A creature that could do this, has no soul" came, it seems that the writers of rock star went back to high school again and picked up some short story tips.

Erm... I'm just curious, but why do you think he was involved in the Afghani war? Not to rain on you parade or anything, as I think your right about the changes to the story, although I found that the characters in GTA Sa were alright (maybe playing the earlier ones fill in the back storys - that assumes you didn't play them...?)

Anywho, Nicko is definitely from the Balkanlands, (I think Albian?) which is in east-Europe, and has had its only set of wars, so of them genocidal (although my history of the area is patchy so I don't know if Nicko could have been involved in any).

This could be construed as a slight spolier but it does not really give away anything much and you find it all out within the first hour anyway

He's serbian, Vlad reffers to it a couple of times right at the start and i think Roman mentions it too, Nico just calls it 'the old country.'

The war would have been The Kosovo war (96-99) a real nasty little spat in which both sides commited some pretty horrific attrocities, in mentioning it to Michelle, Nico says 'It ruined me'

wilsonscrazybed:
Think of it like this. If you see a movie with 5 stars it means that the person reviewing the movie had a good time and thinks everyone would find something about it they liked. I agree that the 1-10 scale is confusing and probably unnecessary. The 1-100 scale in my opinion even more-so. I don't think we need 10 degrees of separation between utter dross and a critical triumph. To be honest I think the 1-10 scale panders to anal-retentive people who like to argue about things like "how much drift ratio a specific model of car should have."

My problem with a 1 - 10 scale is this. Eveyone "knows" that a 7 is an average game and a 6 is bad. If it goes so far down as a four, it's terrible.

What?

Maybe I failed to pay enough attention back when Sesame Street taught me counting, but last I checked, 5 is the median number, and thus should be average. 1 - 3 should be terrible. 10 should be absolutely perfect.

It's bad to list several flaws that the game carries during the written portion of the review, and then give it a perfect score. The game is not perfect. 9.5, maybe, but perfect means exactly that. The problem stems from the fact that we don't have a 1 - 10 scale, we have a 6.5 - 10 scale.

That said, I'm enjoying GTA4 so far.

- J

i think gta was way way way over hyped

it is almost the same as all the rest

only just had a abit of spit and cloth done on it then sold

luckly i never bought it my friend did and now he is bored of it lol

tiredinnuendo:

Maybe I failed to pay enough attention back when Sesame Street taught me counting, but last I checked, 5 is the median number, and thus should be average. 1 - 3 should be terrible. 10 should be absolutely perfect.

It's bad to list several flaws that the game carries during the written portion of the review, and then give it a perfect score. The game is not perfect. 9.5, maybe, but perfect means exactly that. The problem stems from the fact that we don't have a 1 - 10 scale, we have a 6.5 - 10 scale.

That said, I'm enjoying GTA4 so far.

- J

I have to disagree. 10 doesnt have to mean a perfect game, NO game will ever be perfect to everyone who plays it. This isnt a math quiz in high-school where you can grade like that. For some people, this game wont be their exact cup of tea, and as such they wont see it as a great game. For you, no matter how good a game is, they would never warrant a 10 rating because nothing is perfect. Should a 10 ever be given out at the olympics? no, not technically, nothing will ever be exactly perfect, but the ones who score 10's are a notch above all others, the best in their category.

A 10 rating in this case, to me, represents an incredibly polished game, a step above everything else, and a fun experience for the reviewer/player. It hides its flaws well (and it has some), and overall gives a ton of enjoyment. Im 15+ hours into single player, and another 5+ in multiplayer so far, and the game is just great. The plot twists are starting to be really interesting, and im compelled more and more to play the story rather than just explore everything.

For me, the game earned its 10 point rating on many sites, although I can also agree with reviewers who knocked it a few tenths for its minor issues.

My biggest pros:
-Great story so far, with plenty of good and amusing voice acting, drama, and some plot twists that make me really feel for the main character, something I lacked in any other GTA
-Missions range from laid back to extremely intense, with a good mix to keep me motivated
-So much stuff to do outside the storyline, the sandbox play has not gotten old for me
-Detail and depth in the city is unmatched by anything ive ever seen

Biggest cons:
-Touchy cover system. Almost everything can be used for cover, so you occasionally get stuck to the wrong surface. Getting off of cover should also be easier
-Samey mission design. As mentioned above, some of the missions are stuff you've seen before in GTA games, however Euphoria and the new police system make everything feel new. All the same, some people will notice that "hey this seems like such and such mission from GTA3"
-The grey lense filter when its cloudy is distracting to me. It only happens occasionally, but it washes out all the color and just seems weird. A very rare occurance, but noticable and distracting for me.

Those issues aside, it is a great game. I have had more fun with GTA4 than most any other game in the last few years. Never before have I been over 15-20+ hours into a game, fired up multiplayer and had me and a friend laughing over something we both had never seen before until that point, every 15 minutes for several hours. IMO, its a 10 for pure enjoyment for me. Knock it for the other stuff sure, but what else is really more important than that.

renahzor:

tiredinnuendo:

Maybe I failed to pay enough attention back when Sesame Street taught me counting, but last I checked, 5 is the median number, and thus should be average. 1 - 3 should be terrible. 10 should be absolutely perfect.

It's bad to list several flaws that the game carries during the written portion of the review, and then give it a perfect score. The game is not perfect. 9.5, maybe, but perfect means exactly that. The problem stems from the fact that we don't have a 1 - 10 scale, we have a 6.5 - 10 scale.

That said, I'm enjoying GTA4 so far.

- J

I have to disagree. 10 doesnt have to mean a perfect game, NO game will ever be perfect to everyone who plays it. This isnt a math quiz in high-school where you can grade like that. For some people, this game wont be their exact cup of tea, and as such they wont see it as a great game. For you, no matter how good a game is, they would never warrant a 10 rating because nothing is perfect. Should a 10 ever be given out at the olympics? no, not technically, nothing will ever be exactly perfect, but the ones who score 10's are a notch above all others, the best in their category.

A 10 rating in this case, to me, represents an incredibly polished game, a step above everything else, and a fun experience for the reviewer/player. It hides its flaws well (and it has some), and overall gives a ton of enjoyment. Im 15+ hours into single player, and another 5+ in multiplayer so far, and the game is just great. The plot twists are starting to be really interesting, and im compelled more and more to play the story rather than just explore everything.

I have to disa-disagree. If a game is perfect in the eye of the reviewer, it can be a ten. Yahtzee, for example, may have rated Portal a ten. Does everyone agree? No. That's why there is more than one review site in the world. But having a review where you list cons, and still giving the game a "perfect" score means the reviewing score system in flawed.

And even though you didn't address the bulk of my point (that this scoring inadequacy comes from the diminished 6.5 - 10 scale) I'll repeat that if they were using the full ten numbers, scoring a 9 would be a much bigger deal. It would be your "incredibly polished game". If no game can be anything between a 1 and a 6, then no game should be able to score a ten either. That's just logic.

- J

For that, the scoring from 6-10 is a hold over from a school system really. 60% is barely passable, anything less is failing. Im assuming thats why you see the bulk of the scores in that range, because "average" in school is from 70-79%. 80-89 is above average, 90-99 superb, and 100 is perfect score. If you note, most review sites that rate a 10 scale DO NOT say perfect (which is where the confusion comes in, why 60-100 passing if 100 isnt perfect? because nothing subjective should EVER EVER be scored perfect, because that means theres nothing better), they say something like ign's: Masterful.

In the end, it doesnt matter anyway. Play what you like. Know that reviewers get paid in one way or another to do what they do. But this is a nonsense argument really, 9.5, 10, 88, rate it whatever you want. Arguing that it shouldnt be a 10 is just silly really, especially when most the places rating that high make it a specific point that 10 does not mean perfect. I rate GTA 4 a V42. Maybe if people read more of the review than just a number they would see what it all means anyway, but I guess some just cant get past it. Would the game be any different in your eyes if someone rated it a 9.7 instead of a 10? If so then you should really re-evaluate your ideas of what the media does for you.

ElArabDeMagnifico:
I hear the missions are still crap, the story is cool, but it's still "pick up this persons car, BUT OH MAH GAWD 'TIZ AN AMBUSH!" - and things like that....is that true?

well, sometimes it's like that, but I don't really mind since the story keeps me interested even if the missions get a little repetitive. I guess it doesn't hurt that I like the stuff you do on most missions, like chasing people down and having shootouts with drug dealers and the police. It's fun to me.

I had a choice: Wait, don't buy it, go home, study like a good boy, and get it friday. -or- Get it now.

In a demonstration of incredible willpower, i chose the latter.

The game then--

The intro is like "SHABAAM! guess what you're watching a movie." Niko, our BAMF european with a heart of gold, gets off the boat where his irritating cousin meets him. Quality cinematography in the cutscene, (of course there are no cameras but whatever,) excellent intro, i'm intrigued. i can tell off the bat that the game has been polished to a mirror shine. First few minutes take place at night, so viewing the city is less than interesting, as such, my initial opinion on visuals was "meh." Then the sun comes up and my jaw kindof-sortof drops to the floor. It has to be seen to be understood, the level of interactivity, physics affecting every minute object in the game, inside and outside, detailed interiors of buildings, endlessly diverse pedestrians, dynamic lighting. . . Okay so we've all studied up on the various new features so i bestn't list them all. But It's sweet.

First few missions are. . . identical to the first few missions of every GTA game. You drive people around, threaten some stupids about their late debt, etc. Pretty straight forward. The format of the game is familiar, perhaps TOO familiar: go to glowing thingie, start cutscene, shoot some people, end cutscene. Thazzit. I wouldn't mind a little mixup of that system, but i'm not going to complain considering the sheer amount of stuff to do.

The missions are similar, but generally more interesting than previous incarnations for a number of reasons: better layout, enemies are placed in reasonable locations as opposed to random chumps coming at you from the street, AI is generally improved, they take cover and shit, though the intelligence is not quite comparable to recent shooters.

Oh, PS: aiming no longer INHALES DICK. Which is a huge plus-- adjustable lock-on is very intuitive, however it often aims at the absolute wrong target, and while having the option of regular shooter controls, pulling the trigger half-way is tedius. I'd have definitely preferred full 3rd-person-shooter controls with morecpolish than a lock-on system. But thats a matter of taste, as a feature in the game it works well, aside from needing a better way to swap targets.

When GTA San Andreas came out, i thought about what Rockstar would do with the next generation concerning the violence. I figured, with these barely-human polygonal disasters causing so much controversy already, they would have to either tone down the amount of death, or make it cartoony, even more so than it already was. . . They did just the opposite. The violence has been turned up about eleven notches. Realistic Euphoria-powered physics make hitting people with cars absolutely thud-tastic. You'll drive away to see pedestrian juices smeared all over your bumpers. The blood has gone from cartoon showers to good old fashion Bam-thud-splat blood splatter, in addition to body wounds (on occasion) and pools of blood that shimmer in the light. OK so i KNOW it sounds odd to describe this so extensively, but the attention to detail they payed to every other part of the game is found here as well-- its violent. Really violent. There's a hint of added realism that may put some people off the game.

Apart from basic gameplay, what i'm most impressed with so far is the quality of the voice-acting, and general cinematic feel of the cutscenes. These are hands down the best collection of likable, or at least believable, characters i've seen in a game. Niko is a (somewhat brutal) human being with a troubled conscience, but you actually find yourself liking him. His cousin reminds me of someone i actually know, and the baddies are amply evil, crooked, or just plain crazy. The character set is almost as impressive as those from valve, however there are many more to learn about and focus on.

An amusing observation: Niko is portrayed as a troubled, but caring individual who has a conscience, and feels bad about his deeds. In fact, in one scene he executes an important NPC, and regrets it, creating a very emotional moment. The fact remains though, that no matter how careful you are, you'll still go about MURDERING DOZENS OF INNOCENTS. But no matter, right? The contrast is rather jarring. This isn't really a critique, as this is only an issue because Niko is such a well-drawn personality.

Okay so this report is a bit too positive-raving-esque, its not so much that the game is perfect as i've only played it enough to give brief observations. Does it deserve a 10? i doubt it. But i can say the first hour or so was quite excellent indeed.

Why do they call it GTA IV? Isn't there GTA, GTA: Vice City, GTA III, GTA San Andreas, GTA: Liberty City Stories, GTA: Vice City Stories, and now this? And usually I ask the question 'Is there a GTA II?' because of the fact that with so many spin-offs it's hard to tell. And I know I sound like Yahzee when he reviewed GH III because he pointed out the GH: Rock the '80s came before III. Being a Wii owner with a PC that I'm not sure is able to play games and I usually try to stay away from PC games, the only time I ever played a GTA game was on the PS2 of a brother's friend and on some German kid's PC. Now I notice that all the so-called best games are not on the Wii and now I feel left out. GTA: Vice City was the only GTA game I ever played and I f***ing loved it. I wish Nintendo would stop being so family friendly and release a GTA game already. The only thing close to that is Spiderman 3 and No More Heroes and Spiderman 3 isn't that good of a game compared to SSBB and Super Mario Galaxy and I never played No More Heroes so I have nothing to go on. Sorry for the long, useless comment but I wish I could play GTA, and the only way to do that is either A: Swallow my pride and buy the PC version or B: Find the electrical cords to my Xbox and buy GTA: Vice City.

There was GTA, GTA 2 (Maybe a few spin-offs inbetween the two and after number 2, I forget), then GTA III (The first 3d one featured in Liberty City), then GTA III: Vice City, then GTA III: San Andreas. GTA: Liberty City Stories was introduced for the PSP and then ported over to the consoles. The reason they call this one IV is they said that Vice City and San Andreas were not technically sequels and used the same platform as GTA III. They wanted to save GTA: IV for a technical step ahead, like GTA II - GTA III took the series far ahead with a 3d world.

While I understand this may/may not be a good game does it require having a sticky thread sticky. I can understand why having a GTAIV thread helps reduce clutter and spam but why make it sticky. It feels like the Escapist is giving GTA a privilage it does not give other games. If there was a Gears of War 2 sticky thread then everyone will be in an uproar, saying that it does not deserve this and how the game is only average (this is what I think will happen, it might just blow everyones socks of for all I know). But why does GTAIV deserve this?

wilsonscrazybed:

ElArabDeMagnifico:
I haven't read through this thread to get these questions answered, but this forums members type a lot >_>

In fact this is the reason many of us come here, because we're tired of internet meme's, slurs, and people who just want to see their name said on the internet.

QFT - I just brought that up so you guys would know why I didn't bring myself to read through this whole thread, when I'm just looking for a few 'generic yet specific' answers.

So thank you Strafe McGee, WCB, and EvilBunny! All I really needed to know.

Fire Daemon:
While I understand this may/may not be a good game does it require having a sticky thread sticky. I can understand why having a GTAIV thread helps reduce clutter and spam but why make it sticky. It feels like the Escapist is giving GTA a privilage it does not give other games. If there was a Gears of War 2 sticky thread then everyone will be in an uproar, saying that it does not deserve this and how the game is only average (this is what I think will happen, it might just blow everyones socks of for all I know). But why does GTAIV deserve this?

I see your point but, it's seriously about damn time this was stickied, when there is a big game release, it's best to just put a thread at the top of the front page, and let people talk about it in there, if you click "next page" a few times, you'll see so many locked threads with "GTA IV" in the title, and then someone has to re-bump this thread...making it a sticky is inevitable and now that the game is out, I am so glad it's been stickied.

It may be considered a "privelage" - but it was more of a "necessity" - and I'm sure most big games are gonna have a sticky if they get as out of hand as GTA did (which is saying a lot for Escapist).

Fire Daemon:
While I understand this may/may not be a good game does it require having a sticky thread sticky. I can understand why having a GTAIV thread helps reduce clutter and spam but why make it sticky. It feels like the Escapist is giving GTA a privilage it does not give other games. If there was a Gears of War 2 sticky thread then everyone will be in an uproar, saying that it does not deserve this and how the game is only average (this is what I think will happen, it might just blow everyones socks of for all I know). But why does GTAIV deserve this?

People don't look at the second page, and they certainly don't use the search feature to find other GTA IV posts. I was doing a pretty good job of keeping it bumped for a while but it is much easier just to keep it sticky until the discussion dies down somewhat. I guess that's why one of the admins here made it sticky.

I created this thread for multiple reasons, the first one being so that we don't get stuck in an infinite loop talking about the same three things over and over. This is meant to be a big thunderdome style GTA thread where you can talk about anything related to the game.

The other reason is that it's much easier to moderate a potentially inflammable, and monitor for spoilers. Something that would be nigh impossible if I had to monitor 11+ threads 24 hours a day.

Don't worry, we haven't become "The Escapist Presents: GTA IV" we're just trying to allow other discussions to survive on the first page rather than sinking in a mire of GTA IV posts. Expect other threads like this when big games like this come out, stickied or unstickied depending on the amount of hype and discussion happening prior to the game's release.

@Wilcons, I suppose your right, this is good a managment plan. However I havn't seen this amount of attention over a single game before (on this website atleast). It must be because of the increase in population or its something really special. Still I don't think it is something better than borrowing from a friend for a few months.

Fire Daemon:
@Wilcons, I suppose your right, this is good a managment plan. However I havn't seen this amount of attention over a single game before (on this website atleast). It must be because of the increase in population or its something really special. Still I don't think it is something better than borrowing from a friend for a few months.

There are few factors at work here, you have a highly anticipated sequel to a widely popular game, a new high-speed, low-drag moderator, and a ton of new forum members each week.

Can I just ask all you GTA lovers out there; keeping in mind that I have barely played any of the games in the series, is there really anything more to these games other than driving cars and killing people for no apparant reason?

Gavaroc:
Can I just ask all you GTA lovers out there; keeping in mind that I have barely played any of the games in the series, is there really anything more to these games other than driving cars and killing people for no apparent reason?

In this one, yes. Previously the stories were tacked on in order to meet the criteria that every game must have one. That's seriously changed for this one with fantastic characterisation and a hugely detailed and interesting game world. That said, if you don't pay attention to any of these details then it can seem very similar to the other GTA games.

The joy I find is in the details. Burger employees smoking on their break, or cleaning the outside of the shop. A monstrously huge amount of quality dialogue in both the cut-scenes and randomly in the real world. I don't want to reiterate what everyone else has said, but there is a story in this one, and it's really good :)

Well... Personally I've never had much time for shooting and real-time combat games; given that I have the aim and reflexes of a drunk-off-posterior blind man with three fingers missing on each hand.

I might give it a try, however, as I have improved in my 'hands-on' gaming skills recently. And details are always good. I hate the fact that most of my friends only find fun in the gameplay, and not the game world itself.

Gavaroc:
Well... Personally I've never had much time for shooting and real-time combat games; given that I have the aim and reflexes of a drunk-off-posterior blind man with three fingers missing on each hand.

I might give it a try, however, as I have improved in my 'hands-on' gaming skills recently. And details are always good. I hate the fact that most of my friends only find fun in the gameplay, and not the game world itself.

You may find some missions frustrating if you have trouble with the shooting and real-time combat, but GTA 4 is much more beginner friendly in that respect with the auto lock-on system. The game world is surprisingly robust. I sat down and watched over twenty minutes of their in game TV... So that's saying something.

Niniux:

Gavaroc:
Well... Personally I've never had much time for shooting and real-time combat games; given that I have the aim and reflexes of a drunk-off-posterior blind man with three fingers missing on each hand.

I might give it a try, however, as I have improved in my 'hands-on' gaming skills recently. And details are always good. I hate the fact that most of my friends only find fun in the gameplay, and not the game world itself.

You may find some missions frustrating if you have trouble with the shooting and real-time combat, but GTA 4 is much more beginner friendly in that respect with the auto lock-on system. The game world is surprisingly robust. I sat down and watched over twenty minutes of their in game TV... So that's saying something.

Yeah I watched some of the TV too, also spent about half hour last night surfing the in game 'internet' and laughing at all the random little (and not so little) pages they put in there.

Then wasted a good few hours doing side quests for Little Jacob and Roman and going out with either of them or Michelle to all the different spots around town to build up my friendships/relationships, seen the cabaret show a couple of times now and wonder how many different versions they put in and actually started to recognise the different radio stations by name and can play a mean game of darts and pretty good at bowling too (though my pool leaves alot to be desired).

Other things so far I've particularly enjoyed; Getting drunk which is simply hilarious especially trying to drive afterwards (sometimes hailing a cab here is a good idea especially if trying to impress a girl).
Throwing small objects - ketchup and mustard bottles etc at the customers in Cluckin Bell or coffee cups at passing police cars.
Nicking said police car when the cops get out and then once you have lost them logging onto the police computer system and checking out peoples criminal records, most wanted lists, etc.
Private dances and then getting chased out of the strip club for trying to dance with a pole dancer.
Little Jacob and Badman, I just love those 2 crazy Rasta's particularly LJ's obsession with hot boxing cars when you drive him around.
Some of Nico's lines particularly when talking to Roman or even better Brucie, brilliantly written and funny as hell.
And so much more and this is after only 3 days of playing, I haven't even got round to having a proper rampage yet, most I've got was 3 stars while on a mission.