So, I've been having some ideas for something that could possibly end up being a game. It started out thinking about how GTA could be retrofitted to become a MMO. I was thinking that rather than having classes and levels, you have professions and degrees to which you're part of that world. Assassins, thieves, pushers, smugglers and chemists. There's much more to it that I brainstormed but it's not really relevant to this post.

This lead me to start thinking of a new setting for a JRPG-style game and something that I could make in RPG Creator or whatever it's called. I don't really have the time to go through learning C, though I'd like to, so this would be the next best thing. As far as storyline goes, you're a teenager who dropped out of school to support your mom who's got a heroine addiction and a sizable debt. You currently support her working at a fast food place. Due to a rather unsavoury intrusion by loansharks at his residence, he realizes his mother's financial situation is fairly dire. So he becomes a drug dealer to try to make some quick cash.

Anyway, one of the ideas I have that I can't quite get down into specific mechanics is to make "battles" that are verbal exchanges rather than attacks. For example, you'd get into a battle with a potential customer for your goods, and you use different methods or "attacks" to whittle down their resistance so they buy from you. There'd be different types of dialogue, from intimidation tactics to charismatic jesting. Different types of NPCs would respond differently or have different weaknesses... For example, a cop looking to maybe get you to incriminate yourself wouldn't really do well with intimidation but it would work well against someone scrawny kid who's holding out on paying you. I'd really like some help trying to nail this idea down more firmly so I can develop it.

Now, with that being the main type of confrontation, I was also thinking about what I can do to make the inevitable -actual- fights into something different and interesting.

Anyway, just some thoughts that hopefully I can get some help developing.

(Also, when using acronyms, for example RPG, is it appropriate to use 'an' or 'a' preceding it?)

It could work, but the only game maker as such I know of that could do that would be the RPGMaker XP or whatever Enterbrain's latest version is.

But then that would be 2d top down style.

As for 3d... prepare yourself for a long time finding an appropriate engine to use, assuming you don't want to spend a few years building one from the ground up, and then a long time learning how to use it.

the simple answer (and my opinion best) is to ignore the idea of classes and instead work on a skill based system. With your shopkeeper example you would have like a charm based skill or intimidate, force (mug) stealth (sneak in and steal, pick pocket). the more you steal the higher your steal chance is etc.

The problem with class based systems is they are based on another character to make up for your short comings. This can work if you have npcs with your to do that (like mass effect)

I agree with going skill based, as I've liked that system for a number of RPGs since the days of Ultima Online and GURPS.

Anyway, what I mean is how exactly can I implement a system where dialogue and combat fuse into one beast without making it too corny?

I want you to be able to choose from a menu to say use... Charm on a police officer to try to get him to not be suspicious. He'd have something like Suspicion Points instead of hit points, and your methods would be like attacks in a traditional RPG, and he'd have stats that defend against your methods... Like skepticism vs. charm. And I'd want this to be able to form into a dynamic conversation that would work on showing a bit of the character while going through this...

For example, you'd have something like...

*Cop eyes you suspiciously and walks over*
You: Hey, officer of the law, is there anything I can help you with?
Cop: You seem a little too friendly to not be guilty of something...
You: Well, I thought you might be coming to chastise me for jaywalking... I am just heading home from work at MacDougall's.
Cop: This neighbourhood is pretty dangerous...
You: Yeah, I know, it's been rough on my Ma and me.
Cop: Well, have a nice day.
You: You too, sir.

And then behind that whole interaction would be you choosing how to approach the situation... whether to Charm, Intimidate, Lie, etc and you'd be doing damage to his Suspicion Point bar while he does damage to yours, or whatever.

And yeah, it'd likely be done in RPGMaker or something similar. I doubt there's a game close enough in setting to what I'm envisioning to be easy enough to mod. Another medium I haven't much looked into is Flash, but I'm not sure exactly the difficulty in scripting that is.

I don't mean to nitpick (hell, yeah, I do) but someone with a heroine addiction would be rather odd- all day trying to get their next fix of Wonder Woman or SuperGirl or to a lesser extent Margaret Cho. You're thinking "Heroin".

I'm happy that you're interested in game development. I'm a brand-new software engineer at Electronic Arts (so, one of the bad guys)- and here's what I can tell you.

You can't do it. (Yet)

That's mean of me. Sure, you can develop a game, but you have to learn a programming language to do it. There's no way to avoid that fundamental truth. I've tried the RPG-creators and they're basically big steaming shit-piles that people use to trade about games that nobody will ever play- and on top of that, in order to use them, you basically have to learn a limited little programming language anyways. They're hard to use, they don't make much sense, and making a good game with one is an exercise in tedium.

If you really want to start building your idea, you need a language. If you don't have the time to learn, guess what, you aren't going to build a game.

If you're masochistic, you hate life, or a superintelligent demon from planet Zythrax, you might want to start with C/C++, learn the extensive DirectX code libraries, borrow a nice, tidy 3d engine from a similarly minded open-source project and laboriously hand code it to make your game whatever you want it to be. Doing it this way almost always takes huge teams and millions of dollars.

For something a little bit more hobby-level, you could always try Python and the PyGame packages- it's quite a bit easier, and you stand a chance of finishing a decently sized game by yourself. You can start learning Python here, if you're interested: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkCSpy/html/ .

If you're looking for a realistic first-time project, though, you're going to want to learn ActionScript and build the game in Flash.

"But Flash games are lame!", you might say - They're lame because learning to program Flash games is actually pretty easy, and so a lot of first-time coders start with Flash and churn out poor-quality games. You have to start somewhere, though- churning out a poor-quality game in Flash is a lot harder than you might think!

Good luck!

Thanks a lot, I appreciate honest critical feedback and am especially glad your first post was in my thread. :)

I take a look at Python and ActionScript. I understand the rhudiments behind programming and I get what type of steps you need to take in order to create the mechanics behind a game but, yeah, I lack the specific programming knowledge. The only programming I've really done is Basic in grade school and Java in high school (Which is more than half a decade ago :S). I wasn't sure about the RPG-Creators, thought they might be steaming shit-piles so I'm glad to have that verified. I don't mind creating a low scale, hobby indie game myself, so C and DirectX are definitely out. I mean, I wouldn't mind learning C++ or C# but I have a daughter on the way and full time job, so it's not entirely feasible.

I feel I'm getting a little old to actually enter the gaming industry as a developer, considering all the education I'd have to put myself through, but it's still of huge interest of me. In fact, I'd love to write for games. In my opinion, there's nothing inherently wrong with EA, either, so don't be ashamed of being a 'bad guy'. Anyway, I'd love to pick your brain some more about the gaming industry (even though you said you're freshly minted), so if you wouldn't mind, maybe add me to MSN or PM me. MSN = niniux84@hotmail.com

If you really want to see your game become a reality... the best thing to do is write up all the story, scenarios, how characters would build... ect... ect...

And then try to find some up and coming developing company and pitch your idea to it, you just need to find some people you believe in and be willing to only get a piece of the pie.

It will take a lot of effort to do, but if your true passion is seeing your vision becoming a reality, this is really the only way to do it without spending the next few years of your life doing everything a large team of people would do.

The kids mother is doing drugs so he sells drugs to other people? Now that could get interesting.

I believe the only game's that has done verbal combat like that are the monkey island titles. But those battles were "scripted" and you had to choose between (utterly hysterical) lines and the computer had an apropriate awnser. A game where you could actively "talk" with the computer and type your own sentances into it would be awesome. But the programming would be mindnumbing and you would have to create one of the most advanced AI bots in gaming hisory, so i guess that is not an option.

sammyfreak:
The kids mother is doing drugs so he sells drugs to other people? Now that could get interesting.

Yeah, that's part of the idea of the story. The kid starts with just selling pot and then it progresses from there. Hopefully I can craft a decent story in this medium.

sammyfreak:
I believe the only game's that has done verbal combat like that are the monkey island titles. But those battles were "scripted" and you had to choose between (utterly hysterical) lines and the computer had an apropriate awnser. A game where you could actively "talk" with the computer and type your own sentances into it would be awesome. But the programming would be mindnumbing and you would have to create one of the most advanced AI bots in gaming hisory, so i guess that is not an option.

Yeah, unfortunately, inputing your own text wouldn't really be an option so it'll have to be something along the lines of pre-written text options based on the type of action you perform.

I was also thinking of tying some "Tycoon"esque gameplay in there, as far as building a bit of an empire. Ideas are dime a dozen though and execution is what counts, so I guess I'll spend some time looking into both Python and ActionScript. I heard people also write programs for old consoles... what's that about? I'm sure it'd be rather difficult.

Must-have class "Thief". And in combination with Charm skill & wit, to escape the cops, you run into an alley, where you stop. The cops shout "put your hands in the air..." etc, You throw a smoke bomb on the ground and throw a rock onto that fire escape ladder over there. While the cloud billows, the cops run up the ladder and go onto the roof. When the cloud dissapates, you have yet to take a single step from throwing that smoke bomb: congrats, you have eluded the coppers.
And agility should be able to come to a point where you can catch bullets.

I think that if you really are going to make the game you should do it as an old-school point & click, since I think they are relatively easy to make and still tell a great story.

I dont think you should wander the path of the typical crime epic and try to take him to the top. Try to keep it as a James Joyce'ish detailing of his day to day life (well, maybe not that detailed). Make him have moral quandaries where he sees other put in his mothers situation because of him. Maybe even add moral choices and story paths. Ohhhhhh, im getting exited about this. Lets add some dinosaurs also, nothing with dinosaurs has ever gone wrong.

Well...I did an RPGmaker XP project/demo. Maybe you can get some ideas from mine.

http://youtube.com/user/Twiztedgoalie

My computer sucks so glitches that are not in the version I tested in the university are present.

I'll check that out. And sammyfreak, yeah, I don't want it to be too crazy and far-reaching as far as wanting world domination. I did want choices you make, such as who you sell drugs to, to actually have an effect for these characters down the road. I was also thinking of changing his job to commissioned TV salesman. I have experience here first hand and I think it'd make a fun mini-game/tutorial into the conversational combat.

I really wanted it to feel somewhat down-to-earth. I actually thought Flash would make a good medium... doing a mixture of point and click and RPG styling.

I also wanted different clothes to bolster different conversational tactics.

Hi maybe you can try this:

http://sites.google.com/site/rpgstudio

Hope it may help ^-^

Reminds me of Swordfighting in Monkey Island.

Enemy: "YOU FIGHT LIKE A COW!"

Guybrush: "How appropriate, you fight like a diary farmer!"

Speaking of new RPG's I wish someone would make an RPG based on Doctor Who. It would make a great RPG. You'd play The Doctor and you'd have AI controlled travel companions and K-9. You could use the sonic screwdriver to break into things and unlock doors and fix things etc. If you died, you would reincarnate like on the show and you'd lose some of your accumulated notes from conversations and maps for where you'd been (as the Doctor has amnesia after he comes back. You'd also have to convince your companions and other allies that you were really the Doctor as you'd look different to them like in the show. You'd also have the TARDIS capsule and the ability to use it to travel in both space and time. Decisions you'd make and things you'd choose to say would impact the future from whatever time point you were at. If you went into the future in that same place and found out your decision in the past messed it up, you'd have to figure out how to undo the damage you did. You could travel to several locations on Earth and to other planets that are in the books and tv show. You'd go up against classic villians and monsters from the show and maybe even include some from the books that were not in the show. If you could figure out how to make the time travel work and to make your actions impact the future, it could be a breakthrough RPG that would be better than just tweaking Grand Theft Auto.

Well, if you're going to incorporate drugs and the police, you have to make it fit into an RPG style.

First off, does it take place in the real world? I'd sort of advise against it, unless you add fantastical elements (such as monsters and the like) to add more combat options.

Drugs are an interesting idea. There was a game out awhile back that had different drugs as power-ups. This could be incorporated into your system in a variety of ways.

You want classes? Well, you could have that your character, sober, has a variety of skills he or she can learn. These skills are adequate enough, but aren't too powerful--basic stuff, like a double-attack or a piercing attack or ability to flee, as well as your basic skills like Charm or Intimidation.

However, juicing yourself up with different drugs allows you access to different powers. Heroin, for instance, is a downer. So, you do Heroin, you basically become really slow, and your attack power sucks. However, you take less damage (due to not feeling pain) and it allows you to use more magic based attacks (you can explain in the plot, perhaps, that the main character is a psychic or something). So, you get a huge magic attack/defense boost, different skills, etc. Keep using Heroin, and you develop more--say, the Heroin is an item or an equippable accessory or something. However, the more you use it, the more severe the costs get, and if you use it too much, you'll overdose, instantly killing your character.

Pot, for instance, gives you general stat increases, lowers your attack maybe, but lets you use a lot of support skills, to buff yourself up. The drug's effect differs from drug to drug--pot would last, say, three turns in a turn-based combat engine, Heroin lasts six, as does cocaine, where as LSD or shrooms last 8-10 turns. Cocaine, speed, PCP, they all give you berserk physical attacks at a sacrifice of magic skills, and let you basically wail on an enemy with nigh-impervious defense and attack, or attack and speed.

However, doing ANY drug greatly hinders your Charisma, and if you a cop catches you under the influence (drugs can be used outside of battles to, for environment-influencing/puzzle solving skills, akin to Golden Sun), you'll find it very difficult to talk your way out of it. Under the influence of, say, PCP, your intimidation goes up, but you also loose a lot of dialogue options, because you're too fucked up to think smart, so while it lets you, say, break down doors easy, it also forces you into more fights. If you then make battles rather hard in general, this becomes a serious consideration of the player.

Or, if you stick to being sober, you can develop skills that way, and through healthy options--meditation, yoga clinics, sweat lodges, spiritual business--you can develop your psychic/magical powers without the aid of drugs. So, when you are first starting out, you'll likely need to juice up to fight bosses, but as the game progresses, if you don't rely on the drugs too much, you'll ultimately not need them.

How much you rely on your drug addictions can affect your ending too. If you become a total junkie, you'll get an ending reflexive of that--not neccessarily a "bad" ending, but a darker, grimmer one, like your mom dies because you've become neglectful, or you get gunned down in a blaze of drug-induced violent glory. Flipside, not relying on drugs leads to a more positive ending, like everybody living happily ever after or stuff like that. The plot depends on the writer, so you'll want a writer who actually KNOWS something about drugs, who is clever enough not to rely on simple black/white ideas of right and wrong, and who is also good at dialogue...which, since you'd be doing this without money being made, would be difficult to find unless you yourself are a decent writer. Having a few people working on it with you would help the creative process and make game development go faster.

Basically, get a unique hook. People playing games for free automatically give them a bit of leeway, but if you want to use this as something to put on a resume, you'll want a quality product, and the only way to do that is to take risks, throw in some original concepts, but make sure its familiar enough to work with and fun enough to easily pick up and play.